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2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

Conn

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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For Commanders’ defense, confidence is great. Maturity is even better.

 

For the second time in three years, young Washington Commanders defenders arrived at training camp brimming with confidence, proclaiming their defense would be one of the league’s best.

Recently, safety Kam Curl summed up this year’s mind-set: “[Our] expectations are being a top-five defense again.”

 

In 2020, the Commanders defense excelled, and the next summer, several players seemed certain they’d stay dominant. Most notably, defensive ends Chase Young and Montez Sweat told reporters they wanted to break the sack record for a duo (39). Coach Ron Rivera, meanwhile, worried about his team’s “maturity” — and his concerns were validated when the defense took a big step back in 2021.

 
 

Now, after a resurgent 2022, many of the same defenders — including Sweat, Young and Curl — find themselves in a familiar position. But Rivera believes this time will be different.

 

They’re a little more mature,” he explained Monday, adding, “It’s a group of guys now that’ve been together for four years. There’s a lot of confidence in what we’re doing and how we’re doing it. I think certain guys in key positions have matured. … It’s okay to be confident. But … you still got to go out and do the work.”

Early in camp, the Commanders defense has mostly punished its new-look offense. Rivera acknowledged the gap between the units — “Our offensive guys are going through a lot right now,” he said — and pointed out that while the offense was overhauled, defensive coordinator Jack Del Rio made only minor tweaks to his scheme. In 2022, Washington’s defense was among the league’s best, ranking 10th in defensive points allowed per game (19.2) and even better in advanced metrics.

 

...The best public illustrations of Rivera’s point have come from Sweat. During the offseason program, he dismissed a question about the potential of the defensive line, saying potential didn’t matter, and on Monday, he said he no longer uses stats to define his preseason expectations.

“After a certain while, you realize it's not really in the numbers,” he said. “It's just about affecting the game. How can you affect the game?”

When did that mind-set change?

“I don't know,” he said. “It just changed.”

 

...In meetings, Del Rio has told his players they need to generate more turnovers and start faster. In each of his three seasons as coordinator, the unit has struggled for the first four to six weeks before settling down. Often, getting on track has included a personnel change, like moving Landon Collins from safety to linebacker in 2021 or benching struggling corner William Jackson III in 2022.

 

 

...Now, Curl and other players have said, they’re confident in part because the defensive backfield has clear roles and complementary skill sets. In camp, the team has rotated a dizzying number of defensive backs — including Curl, Darrick Forrest, St-Juste, Emmanuel Forbes, Kendall Fuller, Percy Butler, Quan Martin, Rachad Wildgoose and Danny Johnson — through an array of roles, including wide corner, slot corner and safety.

“Most of the guys that have been out there have been playing in the system for a very long time,” safety Jeremy Reaves said. “They understand where your help is, where you don't have help. … If it's third down, I need to go press this [receiver] because I might get this [route]. I just think guys have a better understanding of the defense in its entirety — not just their job, and that's what makes defenses great. It's that everybody knows what everybody's doing.”

 

“No matter what position you put him at, if I see Kam there, I know that he's going to be where the defense calls him to be,” Fuller said.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/08/01/sweat-young-curl-commanders-defense/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=wp_sports-commanders

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Tress Is The Way

Tress Is The Way

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30 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Don't see how it can be Heyward money, which is 16 million a year unless they have mediocre seasons.

 

The franchise tag right now is at 20.  I'd guess next year it would be at 22.  Any impending FA has that as a minimum crutch typically in a negotiation

 

Edt:  just found an article which am about to post that said the franchise tag expected to be at 24.5 for edge.

While I get the franchise tag and the price of it, they don't have the stats to command top DE money. Neither Chase nor Sweat have broken 10 sacks in a single season and have never played more than 75% of the snaps in a single season. Their tackles are no where near any of the top DEs. Franchising either one would be a stupid move, because no team in the league would pay them that type of money for the little production they've shown thus far. That would be a Dan Snyder move.

Edited by Tress Is The Way
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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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15 minutes ago, Tress Is The Way said:

While I get the franchise tag and the price of it, they don't have the stats to command top DE money. Neither Chase nor Sweat have broken 10 sacks in a single season and have never played more than 75% of the snaps in a single season. Their tackles are no where near any of the top DEs. Franchising either one would be a stupid move, because no team in the league would pay them that type of money for the little production they've shown thus far. That would be a Dan Snyder move.


Edge rushers tend to get paid, especially young ones with potential.

 

My point wasn’t to franchise them. My point is the franchise tag for impending FAs who are really good tends to be a marker for their salary. 

 

And each year naturally salaries rise. Allen gets paid 18 then Payne later on gets paid 22 a year, etc. 

 

I have not heard anyone when talking about Sweat or Young as to future salary go below 20 million let alone 16. But agree with the premise that they need to have good years to earn those 20 million plus contracts 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Going Commando

Going Commando

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

For me personally, I don't really have a strong position one way or another because i am not pretending I understand the permutations-mathematics of how to deal with your cap being overloaded at one spot.   But in theory, Chase Young was one of my all time draft crushes.  And if he finds his form this year which I think is possible, i wouldn't love to see him go.

 

It's not about overloading cap one position group to me, because that assumes you have talent all over your roster that you have to let walk due to cap constraints.  We don't.  IMO we only have 5 players on the entire roster worthy of second contracts in the 20 million AAV range, and four of them are our DLs.  No one else is even close to that kind of value.  And no one on the roster is even close to the kind of 30-40 million AAV deals that other teams have signed.

 

We can afford 5 players at 20 million AAV.  And unless we reel in a big fish in free agency, which I highly doubt happens, there is no one else coming down the pipe that will be in that 20 million AAV after Chase and Sweat for years.

 

When I was guessing what our AV totals might be for next season, it struck me that we only have five guys on the roster who could realistically hit 10 AV or more now, and two of them have never done it before.  No one else is even close to being that kind of player for us, and I have a hard time seeing anyone else get there within the next two years or so.  Jamin maybe because a high tackles number Mike can rack up a lot of junky AV, but we can see through the noise of that and those players don't command big contracts.  Plus Jamin is unreliable.

 

There isn't anyone else on this roster to pay in lieu of Chase and Montez.  I'm not giving that kind of money to Cosmi or Gibson or Curl or Leno if I'm the GM.  All of them combined maybe, but giving a bunch of potential 6 and 7 AV guys 15-20 million AAV deals is what is dumb roster building, not giving your Probowl DLs what they are worth in order to keep them.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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If you guys especially @Voice_of_Reason wants to really know how to digest the narrative about practices in pads...one man knows...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

this is something Logan-Hoffman mentioned in their last podcast, maybe you tell the defense to dial it back or let the offense at times play against the 2's to give them a better chance

 

 

 

 

 

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Llevron

Llevron

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27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

This used to be my favorite drill when it was Trent vs anyone who we convinced ourselves had a chance. It was like Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla where you wanted to tell yourself MechaGodzilla had a chance but we all know Godzilla was really the good guy and was never going to lose. 

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Chris 44

Chris 44

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24 minutes ago, LetMeSeeYourWarFace21 said:

One more high snap, and I need to see my rookie Ricky Stromberg get some snaps at center........

May need to line a running back up behind Howell to act as a sort of "safety". Then we can always see that we "meant to do it".

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