2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[CommanderInTheRye]

12 hours ago, Conn said:

 

 

Game recognizes game.

 

Respect.

[DWinzit]

43 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am concerned about both.  A little more about depth.  Cosmi staying heathy for the first time I think might help save that starting unit where its not awful -- that's my biggest hope.  But if Cosmi goes down again, I hate the dominos of that.   

 

As for Schwetizer, yeah he was banged up last year.  The 2 previous years, not too bad. 

 

I read the NY sports papers almost everyday and recall when the Jets signed Schweitzer they thought it was a nice addition.  Of course everyone touts new signings.  But reading those articles brought me back to Schwetizer's first two seasons here.  He basically was the starter at LG for the bulk of 2020.  I recall even on the training camp threads discussion of maybe the dude should be a starter -- in camp, I mentioned that dude looks like a WWE monster physique more so than any other player at that unit. 

 

Schweitzer's PFF stats from the seasons before last would make him a rock star in contrast to some of our current starters on pure PFF score terms -- let alone having a dude like that in the bench to chip in.

 

Norwell and Turner aren't hot.  But as for Norwell in particular I see him as a better backup at this stage at guard versus undersized (for guard) Stromberg and Daniels.    Heck Rivera if anything has been telegraphing he wants tp develop Stomberg and Daniels this season versus seeing them as plug and play substitutes.  Personally I like Stromberg as plaug and play but at center not guard.  

 

I got the idea that Wylie can play guard to tackle. and maybe that balances it out.  But to me at best the depth is a wash. 

 

I can't really pat them on their back for factoring health (not saying you were but explaining my mindset).  They are counting on two new starters at guard both of whom have struggled to stay healthy in their careers.  And their new center has a borderline bionic leg.   I can more easily argue that the odds are better this year than last that their depth will be tested.   

 

It's nice seeing a positive Schweitzer post.

I really liked Wes and am crossing my fingers we don't miss him.

There is younger more talented potential on the team, can they pull it together?

Turner produced about as well as his OC namesake

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

It's nice seeing a positive Schweitzer post.

I really liked Wes and am crossing my fingers we don't miss him.

There is younger more talented potential on the team, can they pull it together?

Turner produced about as well as his OC namesake

 

Agree with all expect I think Norv was a good play caller -- bad HC but good play caller.

[redskinss]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree with all expect I think Norv was a good play caller -- bad HC but good play caller.

I could be wrong but I think he was talking about Trai turner.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, redskinss said:

I could be wrong but I think he was talking about Trai turner.

 

lol, ok, my bad.  Good catch! 

[skinny21]

On the bright side - setting aside concerns with talent, health, and depth on the oline for a second, I do see a number of outside things that may help that unit (and therefore the team).

1. Running a west coast offense - I mean, it was created with oline problems in mind, right?

2.  Paulsen talking about how there are now options for the qbs in pressure situations that there weren’t last year (and so our qbs had to hold the ball).  The prospect of a “cutting edge” offense (his words) is pretty exciting.

3.  Howell has experience playing behind a porous oline - both in his final year in college, and in the Dallas game last year.  Doesn’t hurt that he’s also well built and a solid runner.

4.  Our backs are used to early contact and to running through it.  Considering they’ve virtually avoided running the ball in OTAs, it’s going to be interesting to see how the run game performs (and is used) in TC.

5.  EB seems highly conscious of using guys to their strengths.  I also see his attention to detail, his heavy focus on the screen game, and having multiple players working on choice routes as great additions.  And that’s not mentioning him coming from a highly productive Andy Reid offense with a winning pedigree.

6.  I think going against this D in TC is going to help all around.  Help temper/test the oline, help the rookies get up to speed, help prepare the O in general, etc.

 

Now none of things take away from my concerns about the oline, but it does give me some hope the team (especially Howell and EB) can work around the issue to some extent.  I think it’s going to be an interesting ride for us fans.

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree with all expect I think Norv was a good play caller -- bad HC but good play caller.

Yeah @redskinsshit it. I was talking of Trai Turner and ST, not Norvulous, sorry for the confusion lol.

I wouldn't argue Norv being an okay play caller

[MartinC]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree with all expect I think Norv was a good play caller -- bad HC but good play caller.

Apart from on 2nd and 10 after an incomplete pass on first down he ALWAYS called lead draw. You could set your watch by it.

[Skinsinparadise]

49 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

 

Now none of things take away from my concerns about the oline, but it does give me some hope the team (especially Howell and EB) can work around the issue to some extent.  I think it’s going to be an interesting ride for us fans.

 

My gut is it ends up a bad O line but not awful.   Bad enough to ensure they don't make the playoffs and in turn ensure that Rivera and the FO is let go after the season -- but not so awful that its a collapse season like most of the national media expects.  But I think it will be fine against subpar pass rushing teams ala Denver, Atanta, Arizona.  But they get roughed up against the better pass rushing teams -- they have 6 games this year against the top 10 teams from 2022 in sack percentage.

[wit33]

The success of the offensive line is largely dependent on the quarterback and the offensive scheme, especially when considering performance levels outside of the really good and elite categories.

 

One approach to consider is adopting a smash-mouth style of play, similar to what several average teams did last year to break free from mediocrity. Alternatively, the team could take on a higher level of risk and aim to maximize their potential by implementing a run extension plays and embracing an overall west coast offensive strategy.

 

I am open to either approach, but I am particularly excited to see if we can raise the offensive ceiling while maintaining a solid foundation throughout the season

[mhd24]

20 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Apart from on 2nd and 10 after an incomplete pass on first down he ALWAYS called lead draw. You could set your watch by it.

Norv had to deal with awful qbs.  The only times our offense was explosive was with Green & Johnson at QB.  Gus sucked in comparison.  Could never throw an accurate football.  

[RVAskins]

7 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

The only times our offense was explosive was with Green & Johnson at QB.

And then Screw it up Snyder dumped Johnson for Jeff George.

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, wit33 said:

The success of the offensive line is largely dependent on the quarterback and the offensive scheme, especially when considering performance levels outside of the really good and elite categories.

 

One approach to consider is adopting a smash-mouth style of play, similar to what several average teams did last year to break free from mediocrity. Alternatively, the team could take on a higher level of risk and aim to maximize their potential by implementing a run extension plays and embracing an overall west coast offensive strategy.

 

I am open to either approach, but I am particularly excited to see if we can raise the offensive ceiling while maintaining a solid foundation throughout the season

 

I think you can scheme around D lines that aren't that hot.  But ultimately you are going to have one on one block your man situations in obvious pass blocking situations and when you face D lines with talent you will be tested.  So if lets say Charles ends up a medicore pass blocker and he's facing Dexter Lawrence who is a beast -- good shot on some plays he will get blown up.

 

They ran a smash mouth style last year -- a lot of power duo parting the seas type of runs.   PFF ranked them as one of the worst run blocking teams last year -- they also had one of the worst YPAs.  Statisitcally we easily had the worst run blocking team in the division last year.    But on the plus side we were one of the most committed teams to the run. 

 

I get the vibe though this team isn't headed to a power--smash mouth scheme this year.  Looks like they are going with more of a zone scheme but will see.   

 

Howell in college though was used to playing with a crap offensive line.  And Brian Robinson and Gibson are already battled tested running behind a crap offensive line.  And Rodriguez had a crap O line in Kentucky.  So we got some guys who are used to dealing with the adversity of not playing with a good line so that might help.

Edited June 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[NewCliche21]

14 minutes ago, RVAskins said:

And then Screw it up Snyder dumped Johnson for Jeff George.

 

And that's after we lost Green to KC after JKC died but before Snyder bought.

[Conn]

57 minutes ago, wit33 said:

The success of the offensive line is largely dependent on the quarterback and the offensive scheme, especially when considering performance levels outside of the really good and elite categories.

 

One approach to consider is adopting a smash-mouth style of play, similar to what several average teams did last year to break free from mediocrity. Alternatively, the team could take on a higher level of risk and aim to maximize their potential by implementing a run extension plays and embracing an overall west coast offensive strategy.

 

I am open to either approach, but I am particularly excited to see if we can raise the offensive ceiling while maintaining a solid foundation throughout the season

until the last paragraph, this reads like it was written by ChatGPT  are you outsourcing your posts now? (this was not intended as an insult lol, just the cadence and writing style of the post feels that way) 

[RabidFan]

54 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

And that's after we lost Green to KC after JKC died but before Snyder bought.

 

Which was because the sale was sidetracked with Milstein at the head and Trent was waiting for a contract then bolted.  As Colonel Potter would say, that was horse hockey

[Chump Bailey]

I would think that Sam would be one of the best elevators for our OL since his release and mobility are both good. I rarely get to watch the games anymore because of time constraints, which sucks, so I do not have a full grasp on how well or how bad anyone plays individually. 

[CommanderInTheRye]

2 hours ago, Conn said:

until the last paragraph, this reads like it was written by ChatGPT  are you outsourcing your posts now? (this was not intended as an insult lol, just the cadence and writing style of the post feels that way) 

 

 

One day, in the not too distant future, forums like this will consist of never ending and ultimately pointless discussions between AIs with disparate points of view.

Posts which are only occasionally read by their human masters, during those rare moments when they briefly emerge from  sensory depriving form fitting isolation chambers where they spend the majority of their lives enhanced with hallucinogens playing video "games".

 

Hopefully, I won't be around to live through it...

 

Then again who's to say that we're not already just avatars trapped in the matrix, pursuing pointless and irrelevant aims for some unknowable purpose?

 

.

Edited June 6, 2023 by CommanderInTheRye

[MartinC]

55 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

One day, in the not too distant future, forums like this will consist of never ending and ultimately pointless discussions between AIs with disparate points of view.

 

Occasionally read by their human masters during the rare moments when they briefly emerge into the "real" world after playing video "games" while drugged with hallucinogenics in their isolation chambers.

 

Hopefully, I won't be around to live through it...

 

Then again who's to say that we're not all just avatars trapped in the matrix, pursuing pointless and irrelevant aims for some unknowable purpose?

 

.

As I think back to old threads like the Cult of Colt and the endless RG3 and Cousins threads - honestly what you said sounds like progress. 

[wit33]

3 hours ago, Conn said:

until the last paragraph, this reads like it was written by ChatGPT  are you outsourcing your posts now? (this was not intended as an insult lol, just the cadence and writing style of the post feels that way) 

Haha… I wrote my original response and had ChatGpt edit it. Good catch on your part!

 

Trying to integrate and gain as many reps as I can with it daily. It’s the future. 

[CommanderInTheRye]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

Haha… I wrote my original response and had ChatGpt edit it. Good catch on your part!

 

Trying to integrate and gain as many reps as I can with it daily. It’s the future. 

 

 

“It’s the future…”

 

 

Quick cut to freeze frame of shocking image (below)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Queue Terminator 2 theme music…

 

 

Fade to black.

 

 

Roll end credits…

 

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by CommanderInTheRye

[Chris 44]

Anyone know what to expect from mandatory camp starting today, report wise? Are the media allowed to attend?

Thanks

[HigSkin]

 

 

 

 

[HigSkin]

26 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Anyone know what to expect from mandatory camp starting today, report wise? Are the media allowed to attend?

Thanks

 

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by HigSkin

[skinny21]

17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

My gut is it ends up a bad O line but not awful.   Bad enough to ensure they don't make the playoffs and in turn ensure that Rivera and the FO is let go after the season -- but not so awful that its a collapse season like most of the national media expects.  But I think it will be fine against subpar pass rushing teams ala Denver, Atanta, Arizona.  But they get roughed up against the better pass rushing teams -- they have 6 games this year against the top 10 teams from 2022 in sack percentage.

I think the thing I’m most curious about is how the offensive scheme fares in conjunction with our defense.  Last year’s ‘run the stuffing out of the ball, struggle to score, but keep games close with ball control and a stout D’ worked fairly well on balance (especially considering our shortcomings).  Replicating that this year probably would yield about the same results - and you have to assume it would spell the end to Rivera coaching here.  We’re (seemingly) taking a wildly different approach on offense, so it’s going to be interesting to see it play out.

 

As for sack percentage specifically, I don’t have the numbers, so can’t really speak to that (closest I found was sack totals).  The ‘scariest’ pass rushes we faced were (IMO) from our division rivals.  Hard to see us repeating a 4 turnover type of game against Philly, but we did beat up on Dallas.  Both Giants game were close of course, and that’s with pretty poor qb play and a line/scheme that didn’t have answers against their blitzes.  I could see this team being much better prepared to handle that pressure, but who knows.

 

Point being, we have roughly the same concerns going against them (our rivals) this year - qb and oline play - but a much different scheme.  The scheme seems like it’s better suited to getting the ball out quickly and giving options vs pressure/blitzes… we’ll just have to see both how the execution goes, and whether it disrupts the offensive/defensive synergy from last year.  I’m pretty much with you in expecting more of the same (and Rivera’s subsequent ousting), but I do see a potential path to success due to the change in offensive scheme.