2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

I think that is more of a reflection on Shanny than anyone.  They have a very specific preference on OL.  All they care about is athleticism.  That's why they don't have a drop back pass game.  Heck, Shanny couldn't draft OL when he was here either (sans Trent obviously).  Remember Tyler Polumbus as our RT?  Josh LeRebus?      

 

Well their OL system sucks, to be frank, because they overdraft scrubs who get smoked in big games.  Mike Shanahan used to be good at finding OLs, and Trent and Clady were the standard for the OT position.  I'm looking through the Lynch-Shanny drafts and the thing that sounds out most is how few picks they typically have.  And when they've had them, they've reached by multiple rounds on mediocre OL prospects, and they also haven't developed the position well.

[clskinsfan]

12 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

I like this mock from Nate Davis USA Today. I do STRONGLY prefer Jayden Daniels to Maye.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/2024-nfl-mock-draft-six-055212976.html

2024 NFL mock draft: Six QBs land in top 16 picks of post-combine shake-up

1. Chicago Bears (from Carolina Panthers): QB Caleb Williams, USC

He didn’t do much more at the combine than talk to team executives and media members while rooting on his fellow prospects during on-field workouts. Regardless, nothing coming out of the Bears camp to indicate Chicago is sticking with incumbent QB Justin Fields. And given the 2022 Heisman Trophy winner’s arm, vision, ability to make off-platform throws and vast potential, why wouldn't you take him and reset the position's contractual clock? Williams is also a red-zone weapon (21 rushing TDs over the past two seasons) but typically uses his mobility to extend plays rather than break the pocket. He’ll have to learn to protect the ball better and when to give up on bad plays, but Williams could soon be the linchpin of a Chicago revival that seems on the verge of materializing.

2. Washington Commanders: QB Jayden Daniels, LSU

Per ESPN, new team owner Josh Harris sat in on interviews with six quarterback prospects, so that tells you something. Daniels, the 2023 Heisman winner, did mention “how cool the whole staff was” during his interview, among the few things he did in Indy. Still, his decision-making (40 TD passes, 4 INTs last season), accuracy, touch, processing speed and eye-popping ability to run (2,019 yards, 22 TDs over past two seasons) make him a truly tantalizing prospect. He must learn to avoid the big hits – ask Robert Griffin III how that goes in the nation’s capital – but Daniels could be a big hit in OC Kliff Kingsbury’s offense.

I went and watched Mayes last game against NC State. He was not very good in that game. Missed a ton of balls. Yet he still threw some absolute dimes that Daniels isnt physically capable of making. I think Maye is more of a project than Daniels is. At this point I dont care which of the three we end up with. They all have some concerns and they all do some things well. I am starting to agree that Daniels may be the better fit for KK though. 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

Morgan and Beebe would be a nice haul and an overdue move for this team. I assume that would be the two second rounders. For a team wanting a splash, investing heavily in the OL feels unlikely, especially with the other big needs in the all weapons and everywhere on the D. 

 

In San Fran Peters didn't have final say as he had Lynch and as @mhd24mentions above, Shanny's influences.

 

Morgan is a definite early second rounder.  Beebe is probably a third rounder.  He's got zero position and scheme versatility in the NFL, and that'll drop him on boards.  He can find a home as a drive blocking guard, but that's it.  There is zero chance he could play outside at tackle like he did in college, and he's never snapped before.  And zone heavy teams will probably pass him over.  Which does beg the question about what kind of run scheme we are going to install.

[Going Commando]

12 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 I am starting to agree that Daniels may be the better fit for KK though. 

 

I'd get rid of Kingsbury before I would pick Daniels over Maye, if that were the case.  But I don't think it is.  Kingsbury has worked with some of the most creative QBs in CFB and the NFL, and Maye fits that bill far better than Daniels.

 

But beyond that, Maye is just a far bigger talent.  On the one hand we've got a kid who was a 20 year old superstar with an elite NFL frame, arm, and athleticism, who possesses creativity and playmaking instincts, full field vision, and rare ability to manage pressure.  On the other hand we have a kid who took four years as a starter to break out, who has significantly less arm talent, who doesn't have an NFL body, who is scared to fit tight window throws or make something happen late and off schedule from the pocket, who has bad feel for pocket pressure and where the danger is coming from when he's running in traffic, and who made very few plays until he ended up in a situation playing with the best WR trio in the country plus a Joe Moore finalist OL with the best LT in college football on it.

 

There is a huge gap in prospect quality between Maye and Daniels, there is zero reason for us to settle for the underdog option.  We're picking two, we get to be one of the haves.

[clskinsfan]

3 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I'd get rid of Kingsbury before I would pick Daniels over Maye, if that were the case.  But I don't think it is.  Kingsbury has worked with some of the most creative QBs in CFB and the NFL, and Maye fits that bill far better than Daniels.

 

But beyond that, Maye is just a far bigger talent.  On the one hand we've got a kid who was a 20 year old superstar with an elite NFL frame, arm, and athleticism, who possesses creativity and playmaking instincts, full field vision, and rare ability to manage pressure.  On the other hand we have a kid who took four years as a starter to break out, who has significantly less arm talent, who doesn't have an NFL body, who is scared to fit tight window throws or make something happen late and off schedule from the pocket, who has bad feel for pocket pressure and where the danger is coming from when he's running in traffic, and who made very few plays until he ended up in a situation playing with the best WR trio in the country plus a Joe Moore finalist OL with the best LT in college football on it.

 

There is a huge gap in prospect quality between Maye and Daniels, there is zero reason for us to settle for the underdog option.  We're picking two, we get to be one of the haves.

I agree with you about the quality of the two prospects and dont want to muck up this thread with QB stuff. So I will take the rest to the other thread. 

[Anselmheifer]

30 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Morgan is a definite early second rounder.  Beebe is probably a third rounder.  He's got zero position and scheme versatility in the NFL, and that'll drop him on boards.  He can find a home as a drive blocking guard, but that's it.  There is zero chance he could play outside at tackle like he did in college, and he's never snapped before.  And zone heavy teams will probably pass him over.  Which does beg the question about what kind of run scheme we are going to install.

 

Beebe's arms are SHORT. How do you see him doing in pass pro in the NFL at guard?

 

[Going Commando]

2 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Beebe's arms are SHORT. How do you see him doing in pass pro in the NFL at guard?

 

Fine at guard.  Similar to how he was in college, where I'd say pass pro was a strength.  There just isn't the same kind of space to exploit short armed OLs with long arm moves in the interior.  And Beebe himself is only 6'3, so he's not going to have to lean as much due to having short arms.  Normally you'd worry about most players with length and height disadvantages being overpowered, but Beebe has elite functional power.  He's got a good anchor and it is NFL ready day one.

[Riggo#44]

11 hours ago, MartinC said:

We 100% need two starting tackles. One has to come via free agency, you can’t expect to find two day 1 starting OTs via the draft. We need a starting LG via free agency as well.

 

I think we're fine on the line, except LT, RT, RG, and C. Other than that we're really good.

[Warhead36]

I like Guyton more than Morgan in the 2nd

[Chump Bailey]

35 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

There is a huge gap in prospect quality between Maye and Daniels, there is zero reason for us to settle for the underdog option.  We're picking two, we get to be one of the haves

 

I'm usually not too far off on your takes GC. But, in this case, I am - with respect. I really have reservations about Maye's game. We'll see see how things transpire. 

[Skinsinparadise]

50 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I'd get rid of Kingsbury before I would pick Daniels over Maye, if that were the case.  But I don't think it is.  Kingsbury has worked with some of the most creative QBs in CFB and the NFL, and Maye fits that bill far better than Daniels.

 

But beyond that, Maye is just a far bigger talent.  On the one hand we've got a kid who was a 20 year old superstar with an elite NFL frame, arm, and athleticism, who possesses creativity and playmaking instincts, full field vision, and rare ability to manage pressure.  On the other hand we have a kid who took four years as a starter to break out, who has significantly less arm talent, who doesn't have an NFL body, who is scared to fit tight window throws or make something happen late and off schedule from the pocket, who has bad feel for pocket pressure and where the danger is coming from when he's running in traffic, and who made very few plays until he ended up in a situation playing with the best WR trio in the country plus a Joe Moore finalist OL with the best LT in college football on it.

 

There is a huge gap in prospect quality between Maye and Daniels, there is zero reason for us to settle for the underdog option.  We're picking two, we get to be one of the haves.

 

I'd add the rumors coming out of the combine is this team is higher on Maye. Will see.

 

Kingsbury's system and Longo's are super similar.  Kingsbury's system is partly about testing every level of the field and making defenders defend every inch as to passing lanes -- that's more Maye than Daniels.

 

As Keim among many others including us said this morning on the Junkies, the thing with Daniels is he had clean pockets mostly, the NFL doesn't work that way.  In the NFL, you got to make 2nd level throws with anticpation.  Daniels has certainly his own things to work on.

 

I was listening to Hoffman last night on Keim's podcast.  Hoffman started as a Daniels guy as did Logan Paulsen but that's changed.  They said as the All 22 tape has become available its elevated Maye in their eyes and they get why scouts are high on him.  You can see what Maye sees with the All 22 including things that I've mentioned that I can see even with the TV tape and that is muddy pockets combined with his receivers not seperating and conversely Daniels having open receivers but not throwing to them and taking off instead.   As Paulsen said Maye can make every type of NFL throw.

 

If they took Daniels, I'd be OK with it.  But I definitely prefer Maye.  And I'd say early indications from the combine is this team right now prefers him too (NE reporter said that's what he heard, impression from Hoffman, Tishler, Finlay).  Keim waffles on it but when cornered to pick who he thought the team would take he said Maye albiet he believes they will digest uch more about these QBs before they change their mind.

 

I'd add, with Bob Myers as part of the process, he's a leadership guy.  Maye seems to be the more extroverted natural leader.  Daniels is a lead by example guy like Howell and that's fine.  But the combinaton of ASU teammates being happy to see him go -- and arguably his biggest fan, Riddick, saying on a show a few days ago that Jayden broke out of his shell a year ago and is dealing with a personal situation that will likely be resolved soon -- feels like at a minimum Maye might have a leadership-off the field advantage.  And yes the Daniels or bust fans, I am aware that his teamates sung his praises. And I indeed do think he's likely a likeable dude.  But there is some smoke about him being very shy -- his ex-coach at ASU said so, and Riddick referenced him coming out of his shell. 

 

Is all of that bad?  Nope.  But I don't see any mixed narrative about Maye as a leader.  I was listening to one of his old coaches talk him up big time on that front.  He's obsessed with pumping up his teammates and encouraging them.  Off the field, he's boring in a good way, watches football and plays video games.  He joked that you will never see him in a club, etc.

 

 

 

Edited March 4 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

My dream scenario:

 

2-Maye

 

2nd round-Some combo of Ladd/Mitchell/Worthy at WR and OT at 40(Guyton is my preference)

 

3rd round-Van Pran and best defensive player available 

 

4th round-RB(would like Davis or Irving)

 

5th-7th- Take swings at raw high upside coachable guys that fit our systems

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

I like Guyton more than Morgan in the 2nd

 

Every time I start thinking the same, I go back to the fundamental issue of Guyton not being able to hold a block.  He has no power and his hands are ridiculously easy to clear for someone getting first round projections.

 

Guyton is a very tempting prospect in theory, and that notional upside is going to get him drafted in the first round, so this scenario is probably moot.  But Guyton's film kind of sucks, and that makes me really uncomfortable about projecting huge growth at the next, much more difficult level.  I don't like drafting OLs who weren't good college players.

 

Morgan is risky too, but at least his film is good.  He's not going to go in the first round because of his length and injury history, but I do think his range is about ~35-40 and he's a good BPA candidate for us

[Warhead36]

Just now, Going Commando said:

 

Every time I start thinking the same, I go back to the fundamental issue of Guyton not being able to hold a block.  He has no power and his hands are ridiculously easy to clear for someone getting first round projections.

 

Guyton is a very tempting prospect in theory, and that notional upside is going to get him drafted in the first round, so this scenario is probably moot.  But Guyton's film kind of sucks, and that makes me really uncomfortable about projecting huge growth at the next, much more difficult level.  I don't like drafting OLs who weren't good college players.

 

Morgan is risky too, but at least his film is good.  He's not going to go in the first round because of his length and injury history, but I do think his range is about ~35-40 and he's a good BPA candidate for us

That’s fair. Im banking on traits for Guyton. Morgan feels like hes gonna have to move to G.

[MartinC]

25 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I think we're fine on the line, except LT, RT, RG, and C. Other than that we're really good.

RG we are fine. Better than fine. Everything else is ?????

[Riggo#44]

11 minutes ago, MartinC said:

RG we are fine. Better than fine. Everything else is ?????

 

Oops. LG we suck at. I know my left from my right. I swear.

 

[Bantu]

11 minutes ago, MartinC said:

RG we are fine. Better than fine. Everything else is ?????

... not going to get fixed and/or addressed properly in one offseason. Believe we will see some improvement, hopefully

[Going Commando]

6 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

3rd round-Van Pran and best defensive player available

 

Pick 100 is more like a fourth than a third unfortunately.  I fear that will be too late for Van Pran or the real value on defense in the third.

 

The combine crystallized some draft value projections on day one and two.  There is going to be an early run on pass rusher, wr, and CB talent in the top 20.  You'll also see the start of the OL run in the teens, and the DB, OL, and WR depth are so good that we're going to see those runs continue deep into the second.  We're also going to see a respectable IDL run pick up in the 30s-50s.  And we're going to see the few elite linebackers, tight ends, safeties, IOLs, and running backs come off the board by the end of the second. Guys like Payton Wilson, Edgerrin Cooper, JaTavion Sanders, Trey Benson, Jaylen Wright, etc.

 

That means that there will be a cluster of good but flawed edges rushers left untouched until the third I think.  That's my best guess anyway.  Austin Booker, Bralen Trice, Brandon Dorlus, and Jonah Elliss are the names I'm hoping for specifically.  I think one of them could be BPA at our early third, and that's a good outcome for us in terms of need intersecting with talent.

 

From there, I'd be sweating about Van Pran making it to 100.  Definitely don't think Patrick Paul makes it that far either.  That's why I think one of our best plays is to move back from either 36 or 40 and get better positioning in the third.  I'd drop from 36 to mid second if the benefit was a mid third.

[MartinC]

2 minutes ago, Bantu said:

... not going to get fixed and/or addressed properly in one offseason. Believe we will see some improvement, hopefully

 

Its vital we make improvements if we plan on rolling out a rookie QB behind said line. We have to spend some of those cap dollars on the O'Line during free agency.

[mhd24]

22 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Every time I start thinking the same, I go back to the fundamental issue of Guyton not being able to hold a block.  He has no power and his hands are ridiculously easy to clear for someone getting first round projections.

 

Guyton is a very tempting prospect in theory, and that notional upside is going to get him drafted in the first round, so this scenario is probably moot.  But Guyton's film kind of sucks, and that makes me really uncomfortable about projecting huge growth at the next, much more difficult level.  I don't like drafting OLs who weren't good college players.

 

Morgan is risky too, but at least his film is good.  He's not going to go in the first round because of his length and injury history, but I do think his range is about ~35-40 and he's a good BPA candidate for us

 

 

I could see SF taking him honestly (had him in my first mock).  Morgan fits their OL and they really don't care about length, etc. when they don't do drop back pass.

2 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Pick 100 is more like a fourth than a third unfortunately.  I fear that will be too late for Van Pran or the real value on defense in the third.

 

The combine crystallized some draft value projections on day one and two.  There is going to be an early run on pass rusher, wr, and CB talent in the top 20.  You'll also see the start of the OL run in the teens, and the DB, OL, and WR depth are so good that we're going to see those runs continue deep into the second.  We're also going to see a respectable IDL run pick up in the 30s-50s.  And we're going to see the few elite linebackers, tight ends, safeties, IOLs, and running backs come off the board by the end of the second. Guys like Payton Wilson, Edgerrin Cooper, JaTavion Sanders, Trey Benson, Jaylen Wright, etc.

 

That means that there will be a cluster of good but flawed edges rushers left untouched until the third I think.  That's my best guess anyway.  Austin Booker, Bralen Trice, Brandon Dorlus, and Jonah Elliss are the names I'm hoping for specifically.  I think one of them could be BPA at our early third, and that's a good outcome for us in terms of need intersecting with talent.

 

From there, I'd be sweating about Van Pran making it to 100.  Definitely don't think Patrick Paul makes it that far either.  That's why I think one of our best plays is to move back from either 36 or 40 and get better positioning in the third.  I'd drop from 36 to mid second if the benefit was a mid third.

 

I could see a team trading up for Nix if he's there at 36.  Carolina probably takes best WR available at 33 to help Bryce.  NE will take best OL available since they need to upgrade as badly as we do.  Arizona probably sticks at 35 since they have so many early picks and won't trade down unless they get future picks not in this year.  They might take best defender available since they will likely go WR and OL with their two first rounders.

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

Well their OL system sucks, to be frank, because they overdraft scrubs who get smoked in big games.  Mike Shanahan used to be good at finding OLs, and Trent and Clady were the standard for the OT position.  I'm looking through the Lynch-Shanny drafts and the thing that sounds out most is how few picks they typically have.  And when they've had them, they've reached by multiple rounds on mediocre OL prospects, and they also haven't developed the position well.

 

Yeah, reading their boards, they fans basically state that their OL is trash sans Trent.  The scheme masks many deficiencies. If they have to throw, edges feast on the RT.

[Going Commando]

3 minutes ago, Bantu said:

... not going to get fixed and/or addressed properly in one offseason. Believe we will see some improvement, hopefully

 

That's our best realistic hope.  I hope we can find an OT and an IOL in this draft, and that one of them is a decent early starter.  In the meantime, I'm also hoping that someone from the Braeden Daniels/Ricky Stromberg/Chris Paul pipeline shows a pulse as an NFL player.  It'd be such a big help if Daniels or Stromberg show some promise at guard or center.

 

I'm also hoping we can sign either Kevin Dotson or Robert Hunt to get another reliable vet starter on the line.  You can sandwich rookies between vets and not fall to pieces even if you can't really hope to be good with multiple rookie starters.  But I don't want to spend a ton of money on guards and there is no way I'd let Cosmi play next year without a long term extension.

[Skinsinparadise]

Athletic

 

 

[mhd24]

2 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

That's our best realistic hope.  I hope we can find an OT and an IOL in this draft, and that one of them is a decent early starter.  In the meantime, I'm also hoping that someone from the Braeden Daniels/Ricky Stromberg/Chris Paul pipeline shows a pulse as an NFL player.  It'd be such a big help if Daniels or Stromberg show some promise at guard or center.

 

I'm also hoping we can sign either Kevin Dotson or Robert Hunt to get another reliable vet starter on the line.  You can sandwich rookies between vets and not fall to pieces even if you can't really hope to be good with multiple rookie starters.  But I don't want to spend a ton of money on guards and there is no way I'd let Cosmi play next year without a long term extension.

 

I can't see Paul sticking.  He really sucked this past year IMO.  There was a reason Charles won the job.  What would you think about signing Becton to be LG as a cheap stopgap ala Erick Flowers (another failed tackle)?  I don't think there is any possibility that Peters doesn't spend big on OL in FA.  

 

The other option is to move Wylie to LG.  He's played G before and we aren't going to save any money cutting him.  It was telling he wasn't cut last week.  Maybe that is the plan?  Spend big on RT in FA (Onwenwu?), move Wylie to LG, draft LT with the early 2nd? 

[Going Commando]

42 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

  Hoffman started as a Daniels guy as did Logan Paulsen but that's changed.  They said as the All 22 tape has become available its elevated Maye in their eyes and they get why scouts are high on him.  You can see what Maye sees with the All 22 including things that I've mentioned that I can see even with the TV tape

 

What I've come to realize is that the people who seem low on Maye, or who are late to realizing how good of a prospect he is, just don't follow the college game that closely.  It didn't take deep All-22 study to see that Maye was a dominant QB with superstar NFL potential.  You could easily grasp that from watching the game broadcasts live.  And he put enough on film as a RS Freshman to establish the #2 pick in 2024 as his floor.  Similarly with Caleb Williams, it was pretty clear from the moment he subbed in for Rattler as a true freshman that this kid was on a #1 overall pick track.  These guys have been super easy to see coming.  This was not the case with Daniels, Nix, or Penix.  These kids were not draftable as redshirt freshmen or true sophomores, much less stone cold top five locks.  They're not the same caliber of prospects that Maye and Williams are, and they are not capable of elevating shaky programs the same way.  They each had to transfer from the kind of situations that Williams and Maye thrived in, to play on stacked rosters to get into the world as fifth and sixth year players that Maye and Williams were already in.

[Darrell Green Fan]

51 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

I can't see Paul sticking.  He really sucked this past year IMO.  There was a reason Charles won the job.  What would you think about signing Becton to be LG as a cheap stopgap ala Erick Flowers (another failed tackle)?  I don't think there is any possibility that Peters doesn't spend big on OL in FA.  

 

The other option is to move Wylie to LG.  He's played G before and we aren't going to save any money cutting him.  It was telling he wasn't cut last week.  Maybe that is the plan?  Spend big on RT in FA (Onwenwu?), move Wylie to LG, draft LT with the early 2nd? 

I had read when they signed Wylie that his best position was guard.  Was he actually a good guard or did he just suck less there than at RT?