2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Chump Bailey said:

Isaac did not show well at the Senior Bowl from what I saw but I liked his tape overall. 

 

I haven't watched his cut ups, but I thought he was bad at the SB too.  Bad enough that I haven't even bothered to watch his games.

[Koolblue13]

Barton is one of the best IOL in the draft and he back our C for the next decade, we'd be so lucky. I'll be shocked if he makes it out of the first.

[Going Commando]

14 hours ago, OtisDriftwood25 said:

Sorry I should clarify by depth. The high end talent is not a Trent Williams type player. I think you will have 20 starting offensive lineman within the first 2 years. There will be many day 3 players who are 5th and 6th year seniors that can start right away. For instance Trevor Keegan can play left guard for us this year. Same with Brandon Coleman and the list goes on.

 

I hear you.  But those are players that we can get into range for without trading current players.

 

Allen is not a fungible asset IMO.  Any trade we'd make with him would be at a significant loss.  He's the best player on our team, a culture setter, and I think he's the best candidate to rebound and become an All Pro on our roster.  I don't want to trade him just to immediately have to replace him with the pick with someone like Fiske or Dewayne Carter or Kris Jenkins.  We need to stop the exodus of Pro Bowl linemen that took place under Rivera.

[Chump Bailey]

13 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I haven't watched his cut ups, but I thought he was bad at the SB too.  Bad enough that I haven't even bothered to watch his games.

 

Yeah, I'd strongly prefer Braswell as other regulars have mentioned in that range and it's not close.

[MartinC]

19 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Yeah me too, but I like Barton almost as much.  Not sure he can stay at tackle, whereas I think Morgan can.  There is at least a 50-50 chance that both can IMO.

 

If Morgan moves inside to guard, his 10 yard split is close to elite for an OL.  His first step and range would be very high end at guard, and we could have another Sam Cosmi type situation of highly athletic tackle eventually becoming an elite guard once he adds the strength necessary for the switch.

 

Barton snapped as a freshman I think.  He's almost too good to move to C, but if he did, I think he'd quickly be one of the best starting Cs in the league.  The five position versatility with him is pretty tantalizing.  He also doesn't have an ACL injury in his history like Morgan does.  Although it's pretty impressive that Morgan came back from an ACL injury at the end of the '22 so fast, and it's a point in his favor that he was actually better this year than he was pre-injury, the history is still something to consider.

 

It's a relevant debate because I think both might be on the board when we pick at 36, and we might be making this specific choice for BPA.

I dont claim to have studied these guys that closely but being in AZ I caught a couple of games that Morgan played in. He was impressive (not necessarily against NFL calibre pass rusher mind you). I think he's got the potential to be a very good Pro LT. I'd take him over Barton I think but I wouldn't be unhappy at all if we ended up with Barton at the top of the 2nd.

[Warhead36]

The decision to go T or G/C in the 2nd will depend on what we do in FA. Ideally we get some combination of three, two in FA and one in the 2nd round, with the other 2nd going towards a WR. I feel like that's the most bang for our buck and supports are new QB the most.

[MartinC]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

The decision to go T or G/C in the 2nd will depend on what we do in FA. I

 

It will depend more on who is available.

[Warhead36]

Just now, MartinC said:

 

It will depend more on who is available.

That too. It'll be interesting to see just how many OTs go in round 1. There could be as many as TEN who receive first round grades(but of course that varies by team)and either way I highly doubt ten go in the first round. But you gotta figure the odds are pretty high that at least one OT with a first round grade will drop to 36. Hopefully its someone that fits what we're trying to run.

[Chump Bailey]

RE: Morgan v Barton

 

I've heard analysts mention they thought Morgan was not the same after sustaining a knee injury. I like both prospects and would be happy with either. I do slightly lean Barton, however. 

[Rolo Tomasie]

Interesting discussion on Barton vs Morgan. I personally don't see either Barton or Morgan being better than a B level OT. If Barton could be an A level center I actually think that's more valuable.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like Barton, I'd go McConkey, Legette, Pearsall before Isaac.  But i don't dislike Issac, he plays bigger than his size including being a good run stuffer.  I'd go Braswell, Ellis over Isaac as to pass rushers. 

 

IMO Elliss is going to be there at our pick at the beginning of the third.  And I like the value of Elliss at that pick more than Isaac or Braswell at the top of the second.

 

I thought I was going to like Braswell's film, but I don't.  I saw his pick six live and knew about him from Feldman's list, and I thought I was going to be watching a star.  But I thought he was just a guy when I watched his cut ups.  I think he projects as average and competent, whereas I'd still be hunting for special with our picks at the top of the second.

 

Trice, Booker, and Elliss at the top of the third are my favorite edge rusher scenarios.  That might also still be in cornerback range too (someone like Jarrian Jones maybe?), but I'm penciling in edge as BPA there.

 

Booker is a bit of an enigma, but he is the only rusher that I saw light up #78 from Texas this year.  Trice got completely strapped up by him, and so did both Alabama edges.  78 didn't even break a sweat against Turner or Trice, and Booker had him palpably uncomfortable and lunging.  Booker had a good Senior Bowl too.  He's super slippery and tough to keep blocked, and he's got a lanky frame that he can add a ton of bulk and strength to.  He had 8 sacks and almost 40 pressures in his first and only full season.  He has really high upside, but like Darius Robinson will probably be drafted kind of low because of how raw he is, and how poor his combine performance was.

 

I still like Darius Robinson at 36 though.  And I wouldn't mind swinging for the fences on edges twice and drafting both Robinson and Booker.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

IMO Elliss is going to be there at our pick at the beginning of the third.  And I like the value of Elliss at that pick more than Isaac or Braswell at the top of the second.

 

I thought I was going to like Braswell's film, but I don't.  I saw his pick six live and knew about him from Feldman's list, and I thought I was going to be watching a star.  But I thought he was just a guy when I watched his cut ups.  I think he projects as average and competent, whereas I'd still be hunting for special with our picks at the top of the second.

 

Trice, Booker, and Elliss at the top of the third are my favorite edge rusher scenarios.  That might also still be in cornerback range too (someone like Jarrian Jones maybe?), but I'm penciling in edge as BPA there.

 

Booker is a bit of an enigma, but he is the only rusher that I saw light up #78 from Texas this year.  Trice got completely strapped up by him, and so did both Alabama edges.  78 didn't even break a sweat against Turner or Trice, and Booker had him palpably uncomfortable and lunging.  Booker had a good Senior Bowl too.  He's super slippery and tough to keep blocked, and he's got a lanky frame that he can add a ton of bulk and strength to.  He had 8 sacks and almost 40 pressures in his first and only full season.  He has really high upside, but like Darius Robinson will probably be drafted kind of low because of how raw he is, and how poor his combine performance was.

 

I still like Darius Robinson at 36 though.  And I wouldn't mind swinging for the fences on edges twice and drafting both Robinson and Booker.

 

I like Darius too but expecting him to be gone.  He reminds me some of one of draft crushes last year in Keon White. 

 

I don't love but like Braswell.  i like him because of his ability to rush 2 point stance -- brings seem speed-energy and that seems to fit Quinn's scheme.  He seems to like to have a LB or DE sort of rove and attack from different positions standing up.  He seems to fit that.

 

I watched only one game so far of Trice, and it was good.  He was relentless.  Got to watch more.  But wonder about him losing 30 pounds for the combine.  His size like Robinson was part of the charm for me.

 

I haven't watched Booker but will.

 

Joseph Elliss will lol definitely show up on my guys list when we do one before the draft, he's a fun watch for reasons I've talked about previously.  I'd take him higher than what I see in mocks.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Chump Bailey said:

RE: Morgan v Barton

 

I've heard analysts mention they thought Morgan was not the same after sustaining a knee injury. I like both prospects and would be happy with either. I do slightly lean Barton, however. 

 

Looked good to me against the UCLA pass rushers last year as an example.  Has a better PFF grade last year than the year before.

 

For a dude recovering from a knee injury, impressive time. Impressive for a dude without a knee injury, too.

 

 

 

Edited March 5 by Skinsinparadise

[The Consigliere]

On 3/4/2024 at 5:28 AM, Going Commando said:

 

I'd get rid of Kingsbury before I would pick Daniels over Maye, if that were the case.  But I don't think it is.  Kingsbury has worked with some of the most creative QBs in CFB and the NFL, and Maye fits that bill far better than Daniels.

 

But beyond that, Maye is just a far bigger talent.  On the one hand we've got a kid who was a 20 year old superstar with an elite NFL frame, arm, and athleticism, who possesses creativity and playmaking instincts, full field vision, and rare ability to manage pressure.  On the other hand we have a kid who took four years as a starter to break out, who has significantly less arm talent, who doesn't have an NFL body, who is scared to fit tight window throws or make something happen late and off schedule from the pocket, who has bad feel for pocket pressure and where the danger is coming from when he's running in traffic, and who made very few plays until he ended up in a situation playing with the best WR trio in the country plus a Joe Moore finalist OL with the best LT in college football on it.

 

There is a huge gap in prospect quality between Maye and Daniels, there is zero reason for us to settle for the underdog option.  We're picking two, we get to be one of the haves.

You did a far more succinct job of capturing how I feel than I could. I'm flabbergasted that another part of a forum I've posted in for decades is just filled to the gills with Jayden Daniels support above all (not everyone but a lot of them). I cannot for the life of me understand it. It strikes me as so basic and obvious here, "BREAKOUT AGE," in giant shining letters, along with the supporting cast angle and so so much more. 

 

In time, we could be totally wrong and it's Daniels that hits, but the cv's right now, right here, point to Maye 10000%. I get why people would be concerned about Maye too, there are plenty of legit concerns with both, but only Maye has done the thing typically most suggestive of elite potential: Produce HUGELY immediately, as a starter, and he did it with straight up garbage talent around him in terms of pass catching talent, running game, and OL. He's got to fix mechanics and foot work, and the simple fact that he fell off a bit, explicable or not is a concern, but a much, much, much bigger concern is a prospect who took 5 years to do what Maye did immediately when he was put into the starting lineup (in fairness to Daniels, his '22 was good, just not "breakout superstar, should be drafted in round 1 or top of round 1 good, it was, day 2 pick good"). 

 

I get that people just look at that '23 season and are blown away, and tempted by the fact that he's got a big arm, is a legit running threat, special talent etc, but he's significantly older, and took FOREVER to finally do this. People don't seem to get why it matters when a prospect doesn't breakout until the end of their college career. It is a huge, signing warning sign, just say the name "Pickett" for the most recent example. No guarantee or anything, and indeed, if Daniels can stay healthy, I suspect he should be good, maybe great, but I have more than enough concerns to want someone else to take the risk that he was just an overrage prospect taking advantage of four or five years of college ball to finally figure it out, and a guy w/a body seemingly perfect for squashing by NFL peer defensive players. He's so yikes to me, and I'm baffled at how many don't see why. It's bizarre to me. 

[PlayAction]

52 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

I still like Darius Robinson at 36 though.  And I wouldn't mind swinging for the fences on edges twice and drafting both Robinson and Booker.

 

So, we pick a QB at #2 and then spend 2 out of the next three picks on DEs?  It seems like an over-investment at one position when there will probably be other positions available at similar grades.  I recognize that if you pass on Robinson at #36 or #40, you might find that some other team picks Booker before #67.     

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

 

So, we pick a QB at #2 and then spend 2 out of the next three picks on DEs?  It seems like an over-investment at one position when there will probably be other positions available at similar grades.  I recognize that if you pass on Robinson at #36 or #40, you might find that some other team picks Booker before #67.     

Agree. We could easily be adding a couple of vets via FA before the draft, especially those highly rated by Quinn/Whitt from Dallas.

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

You did a far more succinct job of capturing how I feel than I could. I'm flabbergasted that another part of a forum I've posted in for decades is just filled to the gills with Jayden Daniels support above all (not everyone but a lot of them). I cannot for the life of me understand it. It strikes me as so basic and obvious here, "BREAKOUT AGE," in giant shining letters, along with the supporting cast angle and so so much more. 

 

In time, we could be totally wrong and it's Daniels that hits, but the cv's right now, right here, point to Maye 10000%. I get why people would be concerned about Maye too, there are plenty of legit concerns with both, but only Maye has done the thing typically most suggestive of elite potential: Produce HUGELY immediately, as a starter, and he did it with straight up garbage talent around him in terms of pass catching talent, running game, and OL. He's got to fix mechanics and foot work, and the simple fact that he fell off a bit, explicable or not is a concern, but a much, much, much bigger concern is a prospect who took 5 years to do what Maye did immediately when he was put into the starting lineup (in fairness to Daniels, his '22 was good, just not "breakout superstar, should be drafted in round 1 or top of round 1 good, it was, day 2 pick good"). 

 

I get that people just look at that '23 season and are blown away, and tempted by the fact that he's got a big arm, is a legit running threat, special talent etc, but he's significantly older, and took FOREVER to finally do this. People don't seem to get why it matters when a prospect doesn't breakout until the end of their college career. It is a huge, signing warning sign, just say the name "Pickett" for the most recent example. No guarantee or anything, and indeed, if Daniels can stay healthy, I suspect he should be good, maybe great, but I have more than enough concerns to want someone else to take the risk that he was just an overrage prospect taking advantage of four or five years of college ball to finally figure it out, and a guy w/a body seemingly perfect for squashing by NFL peer defensive players. He's so yikes to me, and I'm baffled at how many don't see why. It's bizarre to me. 

 

As for the Maye versus Daniels debate, this was a good listen for me this morning.  Regardless of where people fall on the issue, Logan and Trice went deep into the subject, entertaining

 

 

 

Edited March 5 by Skinsinparadise

[The Consigliere]

20 hours ago, OtisDriftwood25 said:

I really hope we trade Allen and get a pick between 40-70. This offensive line class is generational and we have 7 openings if you include back ups.

I would assume we couldn't get a 2nd because he's an old dude, and near the end of his deal. Sweat isn't super younger, but he still had more prime yet, and to be honest, Chicago overpaid in a lot of ways (I know people consider that sacrilege, but there was a half season of cost controlled contract, the contract is half the value which is why guys at the end of rookie contracts are usually acquired cheap, unless they're really really, really all pro level or close). 

 

I would expect Allen to fetch a pick more in the 55-100 zone, most likely 65-90. I'd still do it too. Any extension we'd pay him would be paying for his decline, so we don't have much more Allen years to begin with and I'd rather just rebuild and get as many pieces to do it as possible. The reasonable counter to that is that we have next to zero veteran leadership left in the locker room and Allen is the biggest of the leaders, but honestly, he aint gonna be there when we contend next, so I'd just pass the torch to McLaurin, Robinson, Payne, whomever fits the bill that we aren't trading. 

[The Consigliere]

14 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

He's a hell of a player. But he isnt a QB. And until we have one he would be worthless. 

I would point the poster your quoting at Drake London and Kyle Pitts to illustrate what getting an MHJR, or Nabers (who I like more in terms of value/versatility and draft capital cost) returns in terms of value when you haven't fixed QB. Atlanta threw everything in their shopping cart the last 3 top 10's of the draft except QB, and got ---- all from it in terms of production. Indeed a year after being considered generational, Bijan is now considered "not in Gibbs or Achane's class, by many," Pitts and london a few years down the road are considered a bust, and meh as well.

 

Get the QB, or your getting nothing. Atlanta's GM, Coach, and QB's all are being tossed out with the dead, Monty Python style for that singular screw up the last several draft classes and the craziest bit to me, previously mentioned, is many many people think Pitts and the rest suck, when its blatantly obvious what happened. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

4 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

Isaac did not show well at the Senior Bowl from what I saw but I liked his tape overall. 

 

I didn't particularly like his tape for a 2nd rounder, and the Senior Bowl reinforced that. I would be surprised if he's drafted by anyone that high. I think he winds up going Day 3, but could sneak into the 3rd.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I'm going to need that guys' birth certificate. He looks 40.

[Bantu]

2 hours ago, PlayAction said:

 

So, we pick a QB at #2 and then spend 2 out of the next three picks on DEs?  It seems like an over-investment at one position when there will probably be other positions available at similar grades.  I recognize that if you pass on Robinson at #36 or #40, you might find that some other team picks Booker before #67.     

Little bit of a tangent here, but Robinson making it to #36 seems far-fetched at this point

[WashingtonRedWolves]

36 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

I'm going to need that guys' birth certificate. He looks 40.

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, PlayAction said:

 

So, we pick a QB at #2 and then spend 2 out of the next three picks on DEs?  It seems like an over-investment at one position when there will probably be other positions available at similar grades.  I recognize that if you pass on Robinson at #36 or #40, you might find that some other team picks Booker before #67.     

 

A second and third rounder aren't much of an investment in edge at all by league standards, and two picks in general isn't an over-investment for a three to four man position group when you have almost nothing worthwhile long term in the group on your roster.

 

It's such an important and impactful position.  We've been pretty lucky to have a Probowler at edge for the past 15 years, and now we're looking at an immediate future where we don't even have starting caliber players there any more.  I don't think we can over-invest in edge this year, provided the prospects are BPA candidates.  I do think that would be the case of Robinson at 36 and Brooks/Trice/Elliss at 67.

[Warhead36]

I'd prefer addressing Edge in FA and making sure to get weapons and/or protection for our brand new QB in the 2nd round. I feel like WR and OT will be better value than Edge which I'm not in love with this class to begin with.