The Consigliere Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 50 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: I agree with your general premise but there is no way Sweat is on the same tier as Maxx Crosby. Crosby is a legit DPOY canddiate. Sweat is a real good player but on a scale of 1-5 he's a 4, at best 4.5. Crosby is a stone cold 5. I don't. He's 27 and we stink and he could leave on a free. We got a top 40 pick for him. It's fine. At least to me anyway. I would have been interested in keeping him if we were competitive, but we aren't and we won't be for a while. We needed to do a full tear down and reboot. I'm just glad we got a reasonable pick for him, that was more than I expected, its just unfortunate that the Bears had a top 5 easy schedule this year, and so they were a lock to pick much further down than they were (35) at the time of the trade. I get why someone would prefer to have a building block piece at edge, it's one more thing you'd have, but I'd rather have more salary cap flexibility for when we're actually good, or have a chance to be and another draft bullet to help rebuild. who knows, Sweat might have made a key play in that Seattle or Jets game that cost us the 2nd pick too. We gave away both games on late game drives after all. But that's speculative, that is just the cherry on top to why I was fine with it and still am. I just hope we can find a quality DE on day 1 or 2 the next two-three drafts. He was one of the best two edge rushers we've drafted this century. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panninho Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Consigliere Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 16 minutes ago, Going Commando said: Sweat is a better player in Chicago than he was here. He basically turned into a rusher with a 20-25% win rate like the big dog edges once he got there, and transformed their defense into a really good one post deadline. He was their missing piece, and he's going to be their Crosby/Hutchinson/Bosa/Watt/Anderson/Parsons/Garrett/Jones as they try and make the jump into contention. We got used to the idea of Sweat's ceiling being an 8 sack guy who can take the occasional game over, a la Preston Smith. A strong starter but not a Pro-Bowler. In reality his ceiling was much higher and he hit it with the Bears this year. He's a Probowler now. I think he helped, a lot but I also think it was a bit oversold how much it improved. Their schedule was absolute cake, that will make any defense look better too. It's the reason why I projected the pick to be between 38th-45th after the trade rather than the 35 every media type was suggesting based on the at the time value and it pretty much played out exactly that way. Admittedly their entire schedule was cake, not just their second half schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said: I know its recency bias but watching these young TEs in the playoffs is making me salivate. I think he has more upside that any of these TEs aside from Bowers of course. Yeah me, too it would be a trade back. I am a BPA guy. But I admit its tough for me to skip O line in the first two rounds again. i can do it in the first. but the 2nd, too? They'd really have to sign two marquee O lineman in FA for me to run with a lets pass on the O line in the first and 2nd again drill. I do think some here are at the extreme when advocating taking an O line in the first is a must. I don't think I am going to an extreme for wanting one with one of our 2nd round picks. Normally, I don't boxed myself into a spot. But considering the neglect at that spot, I can't ignore it. Big advantage LaPorta had is a HC who was a TE and then a TE coach, an OC who spent several years as a TE coach, a QB who started his rise to the top with an OC whose background was as a TE coach. I could see us going for a TE if we go to Ben Johnson but I also can see him believing he can coach up the TEs we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Consigliere Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 3 minutes ago, Darth Tater said: Big advantage LaPorta had is a HC who was a TE and then a TE coach, an OC who spent several years as a TE coach, a QB who started his rise to the top with an OC whose background was as a TE coach. I could see us going for a TE if we go to Ben Johnson but I also can see him believing he can coach up the TEs we have. He was also a ridiculous prospect. The '23 top end was as good, and as it turned out, better than the famed '17 class (Howard, Engram and Njoku, with Kittle actually being the best of the class, despite being ranked below like another 5 guys at the time). Going in, those guys were basically carrying Hockenson level evals going in, and could be had with less draft capital which is kind of wild (LaPorta, Kincaid and Mayer). Mayer came on late, and especially in the second half, LaPorta looked otherworldly all season, Kincaid looked good whenever Knox was out of the way, Maybe was an afterthought until October, but did post about 2.5-3 catches per game the second half of the season after getting donuts early. I don't see this class as remotely close to that one. Bowers has a better eval than all of them did, but there's nobody close to their tier (guys worthy of 15th-35th overall draft capital) in this draft, to me anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 13 minutes ago, Panninho said: Maye with someone like Ben Johnson coaching him will turn into a star. I'm talking someone who will be competing for MVPs by 2026. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 3 hours ago, Warhead36 said: It’s a deep OT draft so taking one in the 2nd round feels almost like a necessity at this point, unless we somehow address both LT and RT in FA which is super unlikely. Pre-draft, I could see signing a higher end RT and then a swing tackle type like Lucas, or maybe a guy like Brown that can play on both sides, so if Leno goes down, Brown moves to the left and Wylie can step in at RT. You could throw Daniels in the mix, or a tackle in the 3rd or later. Not ideal obviously, but it’s better than feeling forced into landing an OT in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Jedi Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 I would not mind seeing the first 3 picks being spent on offense in this draft. 2. Maye or Daniels 36. Troy Franklin or Xavier Legette 40. Best Oline available. A new QB, WR and help on the line can get us moving quickly in the right direction. Rest of the draft can be spent on D for all I care. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 2 minutes ago, Rogue Jedi said: I would not mind seeing the first 3 picks being spent on offense in this draft. 2. Maye or Daniels 36. Troy Franklin or Xavier Legette 40. Best Oline available. A new QB, WR and help on the line can get us moving quickly in the right direction. Rest of the draft can be spent on D for all I care. Yep I wanna go all in on offense, at least early. Defenses fluctuate so much year to year anyway. Lets build up a talented base on offense around our new QB to build around and hope change of scheme and some spare part signings can get the defense to around 18th ish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: Yep I wanna go all in on offense, at least early. Defenses fluctuate so much year to year anyway. Lets build up a talented base on offense around our new QB to build around and hope change of scheme and some spare part signings can get the defense to around 18th ish. I think we might go edge instead of WR with our other 2nd rounder. Unless we address that in FA of course. And it is a really good edge FA class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Jedi Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Edge looks deep, but we really need a difference maker opposite Terry. Troy Franklin takes the top off the defense and throws it in the trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OtisDriftwood25 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 58 minutes ago, Rogue Jedi said: Edge looks deep, but we really need a difference maker opposite Terry. Troy Franklin takes the top off the defense and throws it in the trash. I am very enticed by the receivers in this draft. I would like to see what a good coach can do with Jahan though. Jahan and Dyami both have the talent to be suitable 2,3 receivers in a good offense. When you can’t run the ball people are dropping 7 on second and third down.EB had Andy run schemes without the blocking execution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The.Mad.Tyintist Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 I don't get why more people aren't expecting Jayden Daniels to be another RG3 if he comes here. Ive seen the tape of him getting absolutely destroyed on a couple runs, I want no part of that. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 IOL and ILB. I want a big WR, but those two positions are code red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Jedi Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 16 minutes ago, The.Mad.Tyintist said: I don't get why more people aren't expecting Jayden Daniels to be another RG3 if he comes here. Ive seen the tape of him getting absolutely destroyed on a couple runs, I want no part of that. RG3 was RG3. Jayden Daniels is Jayden Daniels, just as: Josh Allen is Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson is Lamar Jackson, Drake Maye is Drake Maye, and Caleb is Caleb. People need to just stop assuming that a player is going to turn out like another. All those players I've mentioned above may have similar traits, but also their own uniqueness, strengths and weaknesses that they bring to the table. If you like a certain prospect better than the other, fine I have no problem with that. But stop with the bs he's gonna end up like RG3 because he's skinny and runs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) 6 hours ago, Going Commando said: It's also infuriating that Montez blew up and looked like Maxx Crosby literally the moment we traded him. Wasting potential with trash coaching and scheming and getting into stupid personal agenda based feuds with our players because of trash culture is a big reason our players are so devalued, and why trading them has been such a losing game for us. Even other bad franchises don't struggle with this like we do. The Raiders are bad too, and do you think they'd trade Crosby for a second round pick? Remember what they traded Khalil Mack for? Why do we have to settle for these crap returns for our best players when other bad teams get full price for theirs? This should be unacceptable to us, and hopefully it won't continue under the Peters regime. The first part of your point though runs a bit against the 2nd part. If Sweat looked like Crosby when he was here, we'd have gotten more. But Sweat looked to most of us, i recall you too, as a talented dude but not an elite type pass rusher. But agree, its damning that as soon as he left the building he looked like Crosby. He looked like a good to very good player here. He looks like a monster in Chicago. 6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: IOL and ILB. I want a big WR, but those two positions are code red. Good FA crop for LB. Edited January 23 by Skinsinparadise 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNFLChick Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Just now, Koolblue13 said: IOL and ILB. I want a big WR, but those two positions are code red. What about attacking ILB in FA? I kind of want to address the offense in the draft (so a full youth movement) and FA for the defense. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seantaylor=god Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 14 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said: What about attacking ILB in FA? I kind of want to address the offense in the draft (so a full youth movement) and FA for the defense. Agree. Although, I also could see the utility in hammering BPA in draft after QB AND signing FAs on offensive line ( and drafting guys too) to make our new QB as comfortable as possible. Since it’s a rebuild and record isn’t a huge issue, it’s less important for me to fix the defense. A better staff will fix it (historically bad, can’t get worse) but we don’t need it to be excellent right away. Better for the defense to peak in 2026 season than next year, by 2026 we are hopefully a legit playoff contender behind Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) 6 hours ago, Darth Tater said: Big advantage LaPorta had is a HC who was a TE and then a TE coach, an OC who spent several years as a TE coach, a QB who started his rise to the top with an OC whose background was as a TE coach. I could see us going for a TE if we go to Ben Johnson but I also can see him believing he can coach up the TEs we have. Doubt it. Lions are used to having high pedigreed talented TEs versus trying to make lemonade out of lemons. First Hockenson. Then Laporta Laporta was a very good college player and a very good athlete. He was loved by many people on last years draft thread. When we put together our short list of favorite players in that draft, he was on that list for me. My point is Laporta wasn't exactly taking a diamond in the rough. He was a high end talent. I don't see who that player is on this roster. I recall some selling me on this point as to skipping TE in the last draft too -- that we have the horses in house including Hodges who has since been released. Armani Rogers who has 5 career catches, coming off of a major injury and will be 27 next season. And Cole Turner, who actually was one of my fav mid round TEs but he's not some mega talent. He ran a 4.76 40. And he's done nothing his two years here. I opposed skipping the TEs in the last draft mainly because of how stacked it was for that position. So it was more that argument for me than being opposed to rolling the dice on the projects we had in house. But this time, no way i'd want to run with the projects again after last season. I know your point is maybe Ben Johnson would? I doubt it though. He took a TE high in the last draft. Laporta is an animal. I doubt he'd look at how Laporta can change a game and decide to try one of the dudes in house here to model that. Edited January 24 by Skinsinparadise 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Doubt it. Lions are used to having high pedigreed talented TEs versus trying to make lemonade out of lemons. First Hockenson. Then Laporta Laporta was a very good college player and a very good athlete. He was loved by many people on last years draft thread. When we put together our short list of favorite players in that draft, he was on that list for me. My point is Laporta wasn't exactly taking a diamond in the rough. He was a high end talent. I don't see who that player is on this roster. I recall some selling me on this last draft too which is we have the horses in house includes Hodges who has since been released. Armani Rogers who has 5 career catches, coming off of a major injury and will be 27 next season. And Cole Turner, who actually was one of my fav mid round TEs but he's not some mega talent. He ran a 4.76 40. And he's done nothing his two years here. Did you ever have a chance to look at film of Brevyn Spann-Ford from Minnesota or Theo Johnson from Penn St.? Edited January 24 by RWJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 I know LB Kenneth Murray has struggled in San Diego - don't know the degree but only they are not re-signing him after his rookie contract. He might make for a good reclamation project. I thought he was good coming out of Oklahoma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 22 minutes ago, RWJ said: Did you ever have a chance to look at film of Brevyn Spann-Ford from Minnesota or Theo Johnson from Penn St.? Brevyn was one of the guys I touted in last years draft thread when I thought he was coming out. But I haven't watched him this year where I've read he fell off a cliff. I don't think I can ever recall any Wr or TE with a 26.5% drop rate, that's insanely bad. Theo Johnson is one of those players that I have a hard time landing on a take. My first impression was a very vanilla IMO TE -- not killer at anything sort of a poor man's Stover. Penn State didn't feature him the way some other schools featured their TEs so you really got to be patient watching the Penn State games and I got bored doing it for him but I'll get back to it eventually. By the time the draft comes the spot I usually watch the most to the extent where I feel the most comfortable talking about is the TE spot. I am not there yet but I'll get there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, The.Mad.Tyintist said: I don't get why more people aren't expecting Jayden Daniels to be another RG3 if he comes here. Ive seen the tape of him getting absolutely destroyed on a couple runs, I want no part of that. His size and the hits are an issue for sure. But I am more concerned with his limited ability to throw into tight spaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) 9 hours ago, Going Commando said: I want to post about Jonah Elliss since he's currently my favorite BPA candidate for us at 36. I like Ellis too. Any of these guys on your radar? *Brian Ugwu Miami Ohio has an excellent first step Brennan Jackson Washington State Grayson Murphy UCLA Gabriel Murphy UCLA Kaimon Rucker UNC Adisa Isaac Penn State Jack Sawyer Ohio State Mohamed Kamara Colorado State Barryn Sorrell Texas Brian Ugwu Miami Ohio Nelson Caeser Texas Tech Braiden McGregor Michigan Cedric Johnson Ole Miss Marshawn Kneeland Western Michigan Ashton Gillotte Louisville Jasheen Davis Wake Forest David Walker Central Arkansas Connor O’Toole Utah Edited January 24 by Chump Bailey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Brevyn was one of the guys I touted in last years draft thread when I thought he was coming out. But I haven't watched him this year where I've read he fell off a cliff. I don't think I can ever recall any Wr or TE with a 26.5% drop rate, that's insanely bad. Theo Johnson is one of those players that I have a hard time landing on a take. My first impression was a very vanilla IMO TE -- not killer at anything sort of a poor man's Stover. Penn State didn't feature him the way some other schools featured their TEs so you really got to be patient watching the Penn State games and I got bored doing it for him but I'll get back to it eventually. By the time the draft comes the spot I usually watch the most to the extent where I feel the most comfortable talking about is the TE spot. I am not there yet but I'll get there. This is Brevyn's 2023 highlights. Soft hands, leaps over defenders and love his blocking. That is something that I believe Johnson wants in his TE is I'm not wrong. They need to be able to block as they want to run the rock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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