2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Hurts when someone doesn't get your joke, doesn't it?

 

Jalen?

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

Jalen?

I don't get it.

[ThatNFLChick]

2 minutes ago, alaroche04 said:

That doesn't mean much to me.  Daniels, Nix, and Penix were throwing to legitimate NFL-calibre receivers. Williams and Maye were not.  You put Daniels and Nix on UNC and USC respectively, and this list flip flops.

 

A lot of people say this. People dismissed CJ Stroud and Joe Burrow because they were throwing to MHJ and Chase too. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I don't get it.

Get what?

[Rufus T Firefly]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Get what?

[clskinsfan]

35 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

Penix crapped the bed last night, but I'm not going to completely shut the book on him. 

I dont think the book is closed on him as a prospect. But it closed as far as him being an option for us goes. 

[CapsSkins]

We are going to get one of Caleb, Maye, or Daniels.

 

And it's probably Maye over Daniels after Caleb goes to Chicago.

[Going Commando]

I still can't stop laughing at the video of #33 getting crushed by the Gatorade bath after Harbaugh leapt out of the way.

14 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I dont think the book is closed on him as a prospect. But it closed as far as him being an option for us goes. 

 

That book was lit on fire when we got #2 overall.

 

Finally figured out who he reminds me of: left handed Teddy Bridgewater.  Teddy didn't have injury concerns coming out of Louisville though.

[clskinsfan]

I posted a vid a few pages back of an all 22 breakdown for Caleb Williams. Here is the same guy breaking down Drake Maye. He isnt Williams. He plays much more in structure. And he is only breaking down one game here. But it is a nice representation of what you are getting with Maye. And you will also see just how terrible the rest of the team was around him. 

 

[ThatNFLChick]

3 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

We are going to get one of Caleb, Maye, or Daniels.

 

And it's probably Maye over Daniels after Caleb goes to Chicago.

 

Is nobody concerned about any of these 3 QBs personality wise? I said before I want a culture shifting QB like Allen or Jackson and that goes far beyond what they do on the field (Herbert is a great QB, he isn't culture changing - neither is Lawrence and that's the difference). We know there are already concerns about Caleb's personality, Drake Maye is apparently a good kid who says stuff like "golly" but is very quiet and stoic and not vocal or passionate leader, and while Daniels is apparently jovial and approachable he's not the most fiery either. We need someone that guys will want to run through a wall for. 

 

One common theme from the players when they were cleaning out their lockers is they needed more vocal and passionate leaders - basically there are very few dawgs on the team. Dotson, Leno, and Cosmi all said the same thing.

 

I was not anti-Howell but you very rarely saw him on the sidelines hyping up guys, bringing them together to give them encouragement, etc.

 

 

 

 

[CapsSkins]

5 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Is nobody concerned about any of these 3 QBs personality wise? I said before I want a culture shifting QB like Allen or Jackson and that goes far beyond what they do on the field (Herbert is a great QB, he isn't culture changing - neither is Lawrence and that's the difference). We know there are already concerns about Caleb's personality, Drake Maye is apparently a good kid who says stuff like "golly" but is very quiet and stoic and not vocal or passionate leader, and while Daniels is apparently jovial and approachable he's not the most fiery either. We need someone that guys will want to run through a wall for. 

 

One common theme from the players when they were cleaning out their lockers is they needed more vocal and passionate leaders - basically there are very few dawgs on the team. Dotson, Leno, and Cosmi all said the same thing.

 

I was not anti-Howell but you very rarely saw him on the sidelines hyping up guys, bringing them together to give them encouragement, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree that personality is very important and the evaluation process will help give texture to what's between the ears for these three.

 

But that being said, I wouldn't overthink it. If these guys perform on the field, the rest will fall into place.

 

Culture is set by more than just one guy and as long as the QB isn't a problem culture-wise, he doesn't need to be the rah-rah guy. He needs to work hard, prove it on the field, and earn the respect of his teammates.

[ThatNFLChick]

Just now, CapsSkins said:

 

I agree that personality is very important and the evaluation process will help give texture to what's between the ears for these three.

 

But that being said, I wouldn't overthink it. If these guys perform on the field, the rest will fall into place.

 

Culture is set by more than just one guy and as long as the QB isn't a problem culture-wise, he doesn't need to be the rah-rah guy. He needs to work hard, prove it on the field, and earn the respect of his teammates.

 

I would agree if we were any other team but this team is basically trying to scrape its way from the bottom. The stadium is overtaken by fans of other teams every week (by contrast when the Browns and Lions were absolute losers, barely winning 1 game a season, their stands were packed with THEIR fans). 

 

I think the QB for this type of build has to be more than just "not the problem." I don't know if there is one in this draft. 

 

Did you see the trailer for the new doc about the New England Patriots dynasty? It starts with a player saying "we worked for Bill, but we played for Tom." Thats the attitude you want everyone to have about their QB. I like Burrow and Herbert, I have never gotten the sense that Herbert's teammates will run through a wall for him the way I have with Burrow (and I think thats in large part due to how quiet and shy he is). I lived in LA and even when Herbert was playing out of his mind, the city was fairly indifferent to him and the team. 

[CapsSkins]

9 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I would agree if we were any other team but this team is basically trying to scrape its way from the bottom. The stadium is overtaken by fans of other teams every week (by contrast when the Browns and Lions were absolute losers, barely winning 1 game a season, their stands were packed with THEIR fans). 

 

I think the QB for this type of build has to be more than just "not the problem." I don't know if there is one in this draft. 

 

Did you see the trailer for the new doc about the New England Patriots dynasty? It starts with a player saying "we worked for Bill, but we played for Tom." Thats the attitude you want everyone to have about their QB. I like Burrow and Herbert, I have never gotten the sense that Herbert's teammates will run through a wall for him the way I have with Burrow (and I think thats in large part due to how quiet and shy he is). I lived in LA and even when Herbert was playing out of his mind, the city was fairly indifferent to him and the team. 

 

I've lived in LA for a decade - it's just not a football town period. This city is Dodgers and Lakers by a mile, followed by the Kings when they were winning Cups.

 

Even when the Rams had their run, there wasn't much excitement or buzz. Let alone the Chargers whose fan base is still primarily in San Diego.

 

You mention the Lions and Browns but the harsh reality is those are parochial towns where sports fandom is a fundamental part of their identity because nobody wants to live in Detroit or Cleveland. For example, there are very few transplants living in Buffalo and to live in Buffalo is to be a Bills fan. Ditto Detroit and Cleveland.

 

The "culture change" here just boils down to wins. If the team wins, fans will come back in droves. In fact, our glory days (which I wasn't even alive for) were not led by a HoF, culture-setting QB.

 

I'm more interested in culture-setting for the HC candidate than any individual player.

[Stone Cold]

35 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Is nobody concerned about any of these 3 QBs personality wise? I said before I want a culture shifting QB like Allen or Jackson and that goes far beyond what they do on the field (Herbert is a great QB, he isn't culture changing - neither is Lawrence and that's the difference). We know there are already concerns about Caleb's personality, Drake Maye is apparently a good kid who says stuff like "golly" but is very quiet and stoic and not vocal or passionate leader, and while Daniels is apparently jovial and approachable he's not the most fiery either. We need someone that guys will want to run through a wall for. 

 

One common theme from the players when they were cleaning out their lockers is they needed more vocal and passionate leaders - basically there are very few dawgs on the team. Dotson, Leno, and Cosmi all said the same thing.

 

I was not anti-Howell but you very rarely saw him on the sidelines hyping up guys, bringing them together to give them encouragement, etc.

 

 

 

 

Excellent point.  If the QB is your franchise, he HAS to be the leader.  It’s an inherent duty of the position.  

[ThatNFLChick]

4 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

I've lived in LA for a decade - it's just not a football town period. This city is Dodgers and Lakers by a mile, followed by the Kings when they were winning Cups.

 

Even when the Rams had their run, there wasn't much excitement or buzz. Let alone the Chargers whose fan base is still primarily in San Diego.

 

You mention the Lions and Browns but the harsh reality is those are parochial towns where sports fandom is a fundamental part of their identity because nobody wants to live in Detroit or Cleveland. For example, there are very few transplants living in Buffalo and to live in Buffalo is to be a Bills fan. Ditto Detroit and Cleveland.

 

The "culture change" here just boils down to wins. If the team wins, fans will come back in droves. In fact, our glory days (which I wasn't even alive for) were not led by a HoF, culture-setting QB.

 

I'm more interested in culture-setting for the HC candidate than any individual player.

 

I don't think it has to be all on a player, it should be from the head coach also (the opposite of Rivera who just stood there with his arms folded during games whether we were winning, losing or anything else - showing little emotion, fire or passion). I would prefer it be from both. 

 

Multiple players (who will be here next year) said this team needs it. It doesn't seem to be just one person's opinion. There are things that happen in locker rooms that even coaches aren't aware of, so the more players that are vocal and holding themselves and each other accountable the better and there's no bigger position than QB. 

 

All the on-the-field stuff is important of course but especially for this team, the off-the-field stuff is going to be vital.  

[CapsSkins]

4 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I don't think it has to be all on a player, it should be from the head coach also (the opposite of Rivera who just stood there with his arms folded during games whether we were winning, losing or anything else - showing little emotion, fire or passion). I would prefer it be from both. 

 

Multiple players (who will be here next year) said this team needs it. It doesn't seem to be just one person's opinion. There are things that happen in locker rooms that even coaches aren't aware of, so the more players that are vocal and holding themselves and each other accountable the better and there's no bigger position than QB. 

 

All the on-the-field stuff is important of course but especially for this team, the off-the-field stuff is going to be vital.  

 

I agree with the overall diagnosis but IMO I'd use FA to bring in veteran leadership to set the tone. I think it's a lot to put that on a rookie QB above and beyond all the work required to excel on the field.

 

I want the rookie QB showing crazy work ethic in the weight room, on the practice field, and in the film room. And yes I want them to be a positive presence in the community. But as far as shifting the culture, I'd look to sign someone like Tee Higgins who has been to the Super Bowl or Danielle Hunter who has been to a conference championship game. Doesn't necessarily have to be those high-priced guys but there are other places where you can import culture-setting leadership.

[method man]

10 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

I agree with the overall diagnosis but IMO I'd use FA to bring in veteran leadership to set the tone. I think it's a lot to put that on a rookie QB above and beyond all the work required to excel on the field.

 

I want the rookie QB showing crazy work ethic in the weight room, on the practice field, and in the film room. And yes I want them to be a positive presence in the community. But as far as shifting the culture, I'd look to sign someone like Tee Higgins who has been to the Super Bowl or Danielle Hunter who has been to a conference championship game. Doesn't necessarily have to be those high-priced guys but there are other places where you can import culture-setting leadership.

I agree. This team could use some real leaders who have been there, done that. Guys like a Calais Campbell, Mike Evans and Lavonte David

[skinsfan66]

5 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

So, Corum is now a 1rst rounder, isn't he?

Maybe someone like the Ravens would pick him late 1st. And be a good fit. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Finally got around to watching Beebe. He's a solid but not great prospect. Clear strengths and weaknesses. In the right run-scheme he could be pretty good. We could do a lot worse. I think I value movement skills a bit more than what Beebe provides, but his anchor and hands are pluses. Really curious what his height, weight, arm length, wingspan, hands etc are. He looks like he's got short arms but a net long wingspan. Hand size and wingspan are going to be important at the combine for me, I don't he'll test well at the combine though.

 

I was really hoping I could see more pass rush techniques used against him, swim moves, etc. But from what he faced he looked stout. Kept his head up often to help. He usually did his job in the run game unless he was asked to block while moving laterally, he struggled a bit there. Stretch runs are not his strong suit, but he's OK as a puller.

 

Whose he comparable to, I don't know, maybe O'Cyrus Torrence? He went pick #59 last draft, and the Bills have liked him as a rookie.

[ThatNFLChick]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

I don't know how involved Spielman will be the personnel decisions, maybe not at all. I wonder if he still thinks Maye is a poor man's Trevor Lawrence?

 

I've listened now to him in a podcast and read a bunch of his articles.

 

He comes off high on Drake Maye.  In Keim's podcast, he twice referenced trading up for Caleb and Drake who he sees as the two best QBs in the draft.  His comments in the context of Trevor was still effusive.   Trevor as a college QB was the most hyped since Luck so it doesn't bother me that Maye doesn't get equal love.  But still he gets plenty of love regardless.

 

CHAPEL HILL, N.C. — Drake Maye didn’t slowly materialize as a prospect for the 2024 NFL draft last fall at North Carolina. He burst upon teams’ radar as a redshirt freshman with a blazing start that featured 16 touchdown passes and only one interception through the first four games.

“I had three scouts call me last year when they were leaving North Carolina, and they were all like, ‘Holy (crap)! This kid at UNC is the real deal,’” one senior personnel evaluator said. “I know he’s got a ton of physical talent. When we get down to nitpicking time, which is inevitable, I don’t know what it’s going to be for Drake.”

 

• ...“Mechanically sound, accurate, very good ball placement, good anticipation, just enough athletic ability to be a run threat,” said one national scout who has been to Chapel Hill this fall. “And he’s not surrounded by a lot. Makes a lot with a little. If he was at Alabama (where Maye originally committed), they would be in the national championship hunt.”
• “Size, athleticism, like the arm, deep and intermediate accuracy, he’s really good in the pocket,” an AFC general manager said. “Very good athlete. Elite wiring. Very good at the second and third levels. He will guide the ball a little bit and you can clean up his feet. Really good player.”

...Former Miami Dolphins and Minnesota Vikings GM Rick Spielman, who was the Bears director of pro personnel from 1997-99, has watched extensive tape of Maye and Williams in work he’s doing for The 33rd Team website, his CBS Sports podcast “With the First Pick” and SiriusXM.

 

“He had no help until (wide receiver) Tez Walker started playing,” said Spielman, noting the NCAA approved Walker’s eligibility earlier this month. “He’s got a poor offensive line. He doesn’t have the same weapons he had when he had Josh Downs (Indianapolis Colts) and Antoine Green (Detroit Lions) last year.

“When he has time, he’s great. He’s getting his ass beat almost every other snap as they are struggling up front, and Miami got after him. His toughness to get up after some of the hits he takes, boy. He has a strong arm. He is athletic and can get outside of the pocket and do things. He is an accurate thrower on the move and he has more than enough deep strength and accuracy.

 

...“There’s just tons of competitive juices in that family,” said David Morris, a quarterbacks coach based in Mobile, Ala., who has trained Maye. “Anytime you’re a younger brother, you’re used to a couple things. You’re used to playing up so you become less intimidated. Then there is a toughness thing — you’re getting pushed around and beat up by the brothers — and all that stuff helps mold a competitive kid that is eager to get in an environment where he feels all that stuff.”

“Incredible makeup,” the AFC general manager said.

 

“Does all the right things,” a scouting director said. “All the stuff you want. He’s got a bright future.”

 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/bears/ct-chicago-bears-drake-maye-nfl-draft-20231020-sqse4c6dsjb63b2zwrjnuevnie-story.html

Edited January 9 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've listened now to him in a podcast and read a bunch of his articles.

 

He comes off high on Drake Maye.  In Keim's podcast, he twice referenced trading up for Caleb and Drake who he sees as the two best QBs in the draft.  His comments in the context of Trevor was still effusive.   Trevor as a college QB was the most hyped since Luck so it doesn't bother me that Maye doesn't get equal love.  But still he gets plenty of love regardless.

gotribune.com/sports/bears/ct-chicago-bears-drake-maye-nfl-draft-20231020-sqse4c6dsjb63b2zwrjnuevnie-story.html

But we know in the end it will be up to GM (Peters, I think) and the HC (?) Who do you think Peters would take #2 at QB? Guess.  

[ThatNFLChick]

Just now, RWJ said:

But we know in the end it will be up to GM (Peters, I think) and the HC (?) Who do you think Peters would take #2 at QB? Guess.  

 

I would be very interested in what he would do. I thought the 49ers were insane and monuementally stupid to trade up for Trey Lance. He barely had any experience playing QB and didn't play his last year. His pro day was maybe the worst I had ever seen. They fell in love with his height, size and his rushing ability but he could not operate their system at all. 

 

Then again they drafted Brock Purdy who doesn't have any elite traits but runs that system like an absolute pro, rarely makes costly mistakes, and was in the MVP conversation. 

[The Consigliere]

20 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I've watched what I could of Trevor Lawrence on the Red Zone Channel.  But I saw him a lot as I watched Red Zone most of the year.  He just looks like a guy, certainly not even close to the player he was projected to be. I watched the Jags down 8 with the season on the line and had zero confidence in Trevor Lawrence. He sailed the 4th down pass 4 feet over the receiver with their season on the line, I'm not even sure they got a first down.  And I'm not sure it can all be blamed on his situation.  . 

 

Obviously the Jags have no choice but to sign him to a big contract. And it will kill them. 

I don't disagree. i don't think the situation is ideal, and things went sideways this year for him, but he's not what he was supposed to be at all, considering the perception that he was in that Burrow/Luck clump of best QB prospects since Peyton in '98 and Elway in '83 etc. Lawrence was in that cohort of once or twice a decade type prospects, and while he's not a bust, he's really looked basically between average to above average to below average and never much better or worse than any of those evals, which just isn't what he was supposed to be. In its own way, he's basically been a better version of Tua. Tua had two horrible seasons, one good season, one average season, Lawrence has had one average season, one horrible season and one very good season. I'm not sure what to think at this point, but considering that he was legit good in '22, I think he can get back there, but it's definitely alarming that 2 of his first 3 years, he's been awful, or on the higher end of average. Not great, at all. 

 

I am not as negative as you on the long term prospects though. this isn't a danny nickels situation where dude was straight hot garbage. Jones posted bottom quartile and worse seasons in '19, '20 and '21, had the one, running, system based outlier in '22 (and hurrah for that, got the Giants to make a truly stupid decision), and immediately fell back to hot garbage this year again. 

 

That's a kill em kind of contract. Lawrence has been slightly above average and good in 2 of 3 seasons. If that's what you got, you take the rookie option, and then extend, its a no brainer. It may hurt you, if he never figures it out, and basically continues to fluctuate between being around average to above average, but it's not a Danny Nickels situation where the guy is just crap. And Lawrence came in with a ton of pedigree, I want to see what he can do with a better build out. In some ways, Jacksonville pooping their pants over the weekend probably helped the build. Their draft pick jumped up from 21stish to 17th. Not a ton, mostly because of that hot 8-3 start to the year, otherwise they'd have been in that 10-15 zone, but still, if I'm a Jags fan, knowing they'd be 1 and done in the playoffs, I'd rather just have the higher draft pick, and try and fix things on that defense and offense. The build aint done. 

[Conn]

9 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

You don't get to watch every play of the other players across the league either.  Does that mean I should take the same condescending tone and dismiss you when you comment about other players around the league?    

 

I'm just saying unlike a Jags fan I have not watched every Lawrence play. But from what I have seen, and over time that's a pretty good sample size, I'm pretty confident I've seen enough of him to have a valid opinion,  

Here’s some throws that didn’t make it to Red Zone because they were drops. Ridley alone had like 8 near miss TD’s this year lol