2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[DazedSkinsfan]

7 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Maye is deadly rolling left so far from what I have watched. Like maybe one of the best rolling to the left I have ever seen from a right hander. The biggest issues I have seen so far is footwork and like you progressions. But those are both coachable. Still have a couple of more games to watch yet.

I've been catching up on some of Mayes highlights and must admit not sure what to watch for with his footwork. Is it the way he sets his feet during the throw or does he get happy feet in the pocket with a pass rush?? No doubt the dude has a cannon, and fast as hell for his size 

[clskinsfan]

4 minutes ago, DazedSkinsfan said:

I've been catching up on some of Mayes highlights and must admit not sure what to watch for with his footwork. Is it the way he sets his feet during the throw or does he get happy feet in the pocket with a pass rush?? No doubt the dude has a cannon, and fast as hell for his size 

He will throw off his back foot a lot. He has a cannon and his OL was ass so I know he was doing it a lot to protect himself. He trusts his arm too much. But when he sets and throws it is an effortless thing of beauty. He also will get his feet crossed up at times in the pocket. Which is not a good thing when you hold the ball as long as he does. He is a dangerous runner. And when he learns proper footwoork in the pocket it will make him even more dangerous as he will be able to escape quicker.

Edited December 28, 2023 by clskinsfan

[Chump Bailey]

Watching some 3 Tech DT's and noticing some real good center play. Clemson OC Will Putnam is good.

[DazedSkinsfan]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

He will throw off his back foot a lot. He has a cannon and his OL was ass so I know he was doing it a lot to protect himself. He trusts his arm too much. But when he sets and throws it is an effortless thing of beauty. He also will get his feet crossed up at times in the pocket. Which is not a good thing when you hold the ball as long as he does. 

So most definitely coachable things that can be fixed.  

[clskinsfan]

What a pick by WV in the Mayo Bowl. One handed pick by a DE

[Chump Bailey]

 

Penn State LG BJ Nelson is freaking good. Not many can handle JerZhan Newton but he's doing well - thus far.

[Going Commando]

Rashod Owens for OK St has been an absolute beast tonight.

[gooseneck]

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by gooseneck

[Koolblue13]

19 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

Watching some 3 Tech DT's and noticing some real good center play. Clemson OC Will Putnam is good.

This is a very good center draft. 

[The Rook]

VERY disappointed that Payton Wilson is fore-going the Pop Tarts Bowl this afternoon against Kansas State.

 

However, Guard Cooper Beebe and TE Ben Sinnott play for Kansas State and I know these players are on some of our mock radars.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[Rufus T Firefly]

5 minutes ago, The Rook said:

VERY disappointed that Payton Wilson is fore-going the Pop Tarts Bowl this afternoon against Kansas State.

 

However, Guard Cooper Beebe and TE Ben Sinnott play for Kansas State and I know these players are on some of our mock radars.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

I had to look it up to see if there really was a "Pop Tarts Bowl" or if you were joking. 

[Dexter]

On 12/27/2023 at 8:35 AM, Chump Bailey said:

 

Was thinking the same. I had to watch more Nix & Maye than any others and still have doubts about both but I do like the way Nix assumes command of the offense as he did in Oregon. He is someone I believe could win the respect and confidence of a team and lead them. But, you can't suck either  

 

I still prefer JJ by a slim margin

Nix

Daniels

Ewers (seems the most underrated to me of the bunch by a wide margin)

 

 

 

 

I don't really like Ewers....his footwork is horrible and he's always throwing off of his back foot.

 

Daniels is my #1 guy for sure.  Smooth delivery, accurate and as dynamic a runner you will ever see.

Nix to me is a stud.  I really like him.  He reminds me a lot of Sam Howell.

JJ is pretty good too.  He throws high a lot of times.  But he can sling it.

 

But my guy is Spencer Rattler....if I were to take a flyer on a QB not in the first round I would be all over Rattler or Nix.  Rattler can flat out play

[KDawg]

I wish there was more film available for Tulane QB Michael Pratt. He looks intriguing in watching highlights.

 

Seems to loft his deep ball a bit, but it's usually to a wide open receiver.... but there are a couple of deep ball throws on his highlight reel that are pinpoint to only a place the receiver can catch them.

 

I haven't seen him work much to the middle of the field in his highlight reels. It's all out breaking routes where his receiver is a better athlete or deep balls. 

 

Adequate arm, but not great.

 

Good pocket presence and mechanics. 

 

Slides well with pressure to get a throw off. 

 

Decent runner.

 

Leads receivers will on posts and corners. 

 

When there is a DB over the top of a vertical route he tends to underthrow the ball and put it in a rough place.

 

When the DB is behind on a vertical ball he has really good accuracy. 

 

Fairly athletic and a good runner. 

 

Good size (6-3,220)

 

But I'm basing all of this on a highlight video. Which I hate. There just isn't much Tulane tape out there. 

[The Rook]

@KDawg you are right about Cooper Beebe. He plays with attitude and speed. He looks for people to hit and was used as a lead blocker from the back field in a fake punt.  Would look good in B&G.

 

 

 

 

The Rook 

Spoiler

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by The Rook

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, The Rook said:

@KDawg you are right about Cooper Beebe. He plays with attitude and speed. He looks for people to hit and was used as a lead blocker from the back field in a fake punt.  Would look good in B&G.

 

 

 

 

The Rook 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Yes! Beebe would look great in B&G!

[KDawg]

2 hours ago, The Rook said:

@KDawg you are right about Cooper Beebe. He plays with attitude and speed. He looks for people to hit and was used as a lead blocker from the back field in a fake punt.  Would look good in B&G.

 

 

 

 

The Rook 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The best OL in the draft, imo.

[Est.1974]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

The best OL in the draft, imo.

Got a chance of being a late first rounder I think, combine showing dependant.

[KDawg]

So... I've been seeing people touting JJ McCarthy a lot around here lately. On my initial viewing of him I thought he was a typical runner QB with no real ability to throw the ball and not very good.

 

Because of the fondness that has been happening here, I did a little JJ McCarthy rewatch to see if maybe I just misjudged him because I had "film fatigue".

 

Physical Traits:

-6-3, 202. He's in the "close enough" zone as it pertains to size. Ironically he's about an inch shorter than Daniels but about the same weight (but he doesn't look as slender as Daniels, either)

-21 years old on January 20th, 2024 - So he's young. 

-Roughly a 4.6 speed based on reports, he looks quicker than that on film, which could just be because he is shifty in his running

 

Overall, he's a middle of the road traits guy.

 

Arm Talent

McCarthy has a "Strong enough" NFL arm. It's not going to wow you and it doesn't really compete with Caleb Williams or Drake Maye's arm strength.

 

He has one ball speed on film. That ball is always coming in hot. Short, intermediate, long. He lets it fly like it's shot out of a handcannon. Of course, the longer throws have a little bit of loft just based on the angle. But he has a great spin rate and throws really tight spirals. 

 

His accuracy is spotty, but it's not too bad. When he is accurate he can pinpoint place a pass, but there are times where he just completely misses. Though in watching 2022 vs. 2023 his boundary throws to the right seem to have improved significantly this year. 

 

His arm shines best when he breaks the pocket. He does this off-balance throw off of his left foot with his right foot completely in the air that is a thing of beauty. 

 

Pocket Presence

He definitely prefers to break the pocket and play off platform. But one thing I definitely missed the first time watching him is that he doesn't mind standing tall in the middle of the pocket and delivering a strike with pressure incoming. He knows it's there, and he still delivers. He'll also step up after he gets to the top of his drop if he feels exterior pressure. He has a good "sixth sense" on pressure and need to bail. He, like seemingly all college QBs nowadays, sometimes holds the ball a bit too long, but I'm finding that more and more with all of these prospects. 

 

Mechanics

The whole throwing off of one foot thing can be annoying to watch. He does it more than he should and in the NFL he's going to take some major hits with one foot down and one foot in the air. 

 

He has a really good catch and throw release on quicks. It's noticeable how fast he can catch a snap and flick it to a slot on a screen. It's fast. The defense doesn't have a ton of time to react.

 

He has really quick feet so when he gets sloppy with his footwork it seems really correctable as it pertains to pocket throws.

 

Seeing the Field

The one thing I can say is that the Michigan receivers seem to really struggle with separation. So McCarthy has to read the field and deliver the ball based on coverage. He seems to see the coverage scheme really well and know where the vacancies are. He really understands coverage drops and front structures and can navigate them in both the passing game and the running game with his zone reads and QB run vision. 

 

I don't think he does a great job getting to multiple reads on a play. He tends to make a single read and then either let it rip or keeps it and tries to make off platform plays. But when he makes a read he makes a read. He's very decisive. 

 

Playmaking

Look, he's not Caleb Williams in this department, but he has a similar super power. He can make some wild off platform throws and plays. Against Penn State he is literally falling with his left leg wrapped and his body twisted and he gets a throw off to a receiver (who doesn't think the ball is coming to him because he thinks McCarthy is sacked and the ball goes right by him and almost intercepted). When he breaks contain and gets to the perimeter it puts defenses in major binds... Do they step up to stop the run and leave a receiver open or cover the receiver and leave him to run. He has excellent field vision as a runner and finds holes to run through. 

 

But, like Williams, I think his legs are underutilized to some extent. This year he has just 57 rush attempts for 146 yards. 

 

How Does He Translate to the NFL

Not sure. He isn't small at 200ish pounds (a lot of ball carriers are in that size range) but he would need to change his game a bit to find success in the NFL. I have a similar concern with McCarthy that I do with Williams: If teams contain rush him and keep him in the pocket, I'm not sure how he responds. A couple things that I like about McCarthy more than Williams is that I see him standing in the pocket and delivering strikes in the face of pressure, so that makes me feel a bit better about him in that situation vs. Caleb. He's also 2" taller so he can see over the line a bit better than Caleb can. I also like how there doesn't seem to be a peep about his personality being a concern (but that doesn't mean that it's not).

 

Something that I think Williams does better is create in the passing game. McCarthy creates but it's generally because of his legs. Williams creates generally because of his field vision when the pocket breaks down. It's a slight difference that changes dynamics a bit. 

 

Another concern with McCarthy is: How does he hold up against better competition? Michigan hasn't faced many great teams this year. 

 

But Michigan doesn't ask him to do a lot, either. Against OSU he was 16/20 for 141 and a pick. Not exactly encouraging considering that's one of the only good defenses he played. But he only threw the ball 20 times. Why? Because Corum/Edwards are studs or because the Michigan coaches felt like they needed to lean on the run to win? And if they did feel they needed to lean on the run was it because they are nervous about McCarthy or just ultra confident in their run game? I lean to ultra confident in the run game...

 

He threw 30 passes just three times this season:

 

Vs. East Carolina (26/30, 280, 3/0)

Vs. Purdue (24/37, 335, 0/0) 

Vs. Iowa (22/30, 147, 0/0)

 

Also alarming is his Bowling Green statline: 8/13, 143 yards, 2/3. Three of his five incomplete passes were picked off... By Bowling Green. 

 

The good news is he only threw interceptions in two games this year. Three against BG and 1 against Maryland (where he also struggled... 12/23, 141, 0/1).

 

My Conclusion

I'm higher on him than I was previously. But I'm not sure where he falls in with this class. In some ways I prefer him over Maye, Daniels or Williams.... But in others I don't. I think he slots in with the second group of Nix & Penix (and maybe Pratt, but I need to see more of him...) given his sampling...

 

The CFP is going to be a big factor in where I wind up with my feelings on McCarthy for 2023. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

All this Beebe hype, interesting, I got to rewatch him.  I was high on him for a spell on last years draft thread when it looked like he might come out.

 

In general, I want a guard as bad as a RT so its certainly a need.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 

Playmaking

Look, he's not Caleb Williams in this department, but he has a similar super power. He can make some wild off platform throws and plays. Against Penn State he is literally falling with his left leg wrapped and his body twisted and he gets a throw off to a receiver (who doesn't think the ball is coming to him because he thinks McCarthy is sacked and the ball goes right by him and almost intercepted). When he breaks contain and gets to the perimeter it puts defenses in major binds... Do they step up to stop the run and leave a receiver open or cover the receiver and leave him to run. He has excellent field vision as a runner and finds holes to run through. 

 

But, like Williams, I think his legs are underutilized to some extent. This year he has just 57 rush attempts for 146 yards. 

 

 

Agree.  I mentioned this the other day about McCarthy.  That is, IMO he's the best off platform QB aside from Caleb in this class.

 

As for his speed, I've seen a number of different times.  The best being 4.48.  I'd bet its close to that.

 

I want to see him unleashed in a game.  They are so much a run first team with Corum -- that I'd like to see a let it fly, pass happy Bieniemy style game from him.  Some think it might happen in the Alabama game coming up considering Saban will likely crowd the box.  Will see.

 

I am definitely intrigued by McCarthy.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[JamesMadisonSkins]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

All these Beebe hype, interesting, I got to rewatch him.  I was high on him for a spell on last years draft thread when it looked like he might come out.

 

In general, I want a guard as bad as a RT so its certainly a need.

Guard seems like a logical choice at one of our early 2’s. If we can pair a LG and OT together at those 2 picks along with a QB at 3, I’d really like how our OL could shape up. It’s also seemingly a deep Center draft so we could hit Center and Tackle again in the later rounds. 
 

I also assume we grab a FA OL. Not sure if there’s any legit LTs we could bring in. But gotta think someone out there is better than paying Leno $15m next year. 

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Guard seems like a logical choice at one of our early 2’s. If we can pair a LG and OT together at those 2 picks along with a QB at 3, I’d really like how our OL could shape up. It’s also seemingly a deep Center draft so we could hit Center and Tackle again in the later rounds. 
 

I also assume we grab a FA OL. Not sure if there’s any legit LTs we could bring in. But gotta think someone out there is better than paying Leno $15m next year. 

 

Yeah I think a RT is a no brainer in that case in the early 2nd -- considering its unusually deep for that spot.    Guards tend to fall so you might be able to get one with the early 3rd including Beebe who Ive seen lower than early third in some mocks.     But I would be good using the other 2nd for a guard, too.

 

WR is another spot that early 2nd might be a sweet spot.  Brain Thomas.   Keon Coleman.  Maybe Legette is there but I doubt that some -- most mocks have him in the early 2nd, but I suspect after the combine he cements himself into the first.  The thing is its so stacked at that spot that I suspect there will be a surprise faller or two.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

I caught the end of Beebe's game last night. I don't recall a G ever receiving so much recognition by announcers or the HC before. And what I saw, he was crushing it. That last real play before they kneeled to end the game, he steam rolled the LB, great way to end a career! And he was with his head coach in the post-game interviews. What a player and career for hm

[JamesMadisonSkins]

40 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah I think a RT is a no brainer in that case in the early 2nd -- considering its unusually deep for that spot.    Guards tend to fall so you might be able to get one with the early 3rd including Beebe who Ive seen lower than early third in some mocks.     But I would be good using the other 2nd for a guard, too.

 

WR is another spot that early 2nd might be a sweet spot.  Brain Thomas.   Keon Coleman.  Maybe Legette is there but I doubt that some -- most mocks have him in the early 2nd, but I suspect after the combine he cements himself into the first.  The thing is its so stacked at that spot that I suspect there will be a surprise faller or two.

This is why I think trading Allen could be a real opportunity. You don’t need to use the pick you trade him for on a DT because you have 3 options there already and his replacement could be a 4th-6th rounder for depth … or a FA rotational piece. 
 

If you could get a 2nd for Allen, it allows you to go OT, WR, OG, TE with 2/2/2/3 … which would be amazing. And you’d be able to focus 3/4/5/6/7 on defense. 
 

Maybe you could get more than a 2 for Allen but I don’t want to set unrealistic expectations. 
 

If Shen is analytics driven and this FO is modeled after the Ravens I could see us using one of those 2’s to trade back for a later 2 and a 3 as well. It gives you a ton of flexibility. 

Edited December 29, 2023 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

This is why I think trading Allen could be a real opportunity. You don’t need to use the pick you trade him for on a DT because you have 3 options there already and his replacement could be a 4th-6th rounder for depth … or a FA rotational piece. 
 

If you could get a 2nd for Allen, it allows you to go OT, WR, OG, TE with 2/2/2/3 … which would be amazing. And you’d be able to focus 3/4/5/6/7 on defense. 
 

Maybe you could get more than a 2 for Allen but I don’t want to set unrealistic expectations. 
 

If Shen is analytics driven and this FO is modeled after the Ravens I could see us using one of those 2’s to trade back for a later 2 and a 3 as well. It gives you a ton of flexibility. 

 

I am mixed on trading Allen.  But if he wants to go, I'd trade him.  Also at his age his best seasons might be behind him.

 

But the reason why I am saying mixed is I think this defense can be fixed to some extent in FA.  I like this crop of FA for defense.  So if I am using my cap -- FA for defense primarily and the draft primarily for offense.

 

You can turnaround defenses fast sometimes.  Gregg Williams inherited a crap defense and also used FA to help fix it up fast.  Minny did it this year, etc.