2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

Watching some Adonai Mitchell.  Texas WR.  Size-brand similar to Troy Franklin.  Tall -- lanky -- fast.  Good hands.  Both seem to be good run blockers depsite their frame.  Neither with the physical frame to be hot at contested catches.  I lean Franklin because to my eyes he's more explosive-fast.  But they are similar brand IMO.

 

I think both likely go somewhere in the third round range.

 

I am trying to lock in to a 3rd-4th round type of WR to love.  I think am still leaning on that front with Ladd McConkey (probably 4th round) albiet he doesn't have the size I am craving for as to this team but I think he could be a dyanmic slot WR in the pros.

 

As a name, Ladd probably falls short of @Jumboliking of the name Bo Nix.  But its still sort of cool, funky sounding name.   As a player, he's a Jamison Crowder type.  He's not the biggest-fastest dude like Crowder.  But he's quick, gets open especially against zone, has strong hands and simply makes plays -- YAC.    He's also clutch.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

@Skinsinparadise I’d trust your round judgment but right now Worthy and McConkey seem to be going in the early 2nd with the simulators. Franklin more in the 3rd round range. 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am mixed on trading Allen.  But if he wants to go, I'd trade him.  Also at his age his best seasons might be behind him.

 

But the reason why I am saying mixed is I think this defense can be fixed to some extent in FA.  I like this crop of FA for defense.  So if I am using my cap -- FA for defense primarily and the draft primarily for offense.

 

You can turnaround defenses fast sometimes.  Gregg Williams inherited a crap defense and also used FA to help fix it up fast.  Minny did it this year, etc.

 

The only way I'd trade Allen is if he begs to go and I can't sell him on staying.  Guys like him need to retire in this jersey.  Same for Terry.  They are the only good things about our culture.  But if he is firm on asking out, then I wouldn't hold him hostage.  He's earned the right to have some say in his future, similar to Matt Stafford with Detroit.

 

I love Daron as much or more than any Commanders fan, but I would definitely trade him before losing Allen.  Especially if there is a sequence of events where dealing him to Chicago could get us up to the #1 pick for Caleb Williams.  But that's the only kind of package I would trade Daron for.  Otherwise I'm not dealing him either, and frankly, some of the returns I've seen suggested for these guys are heinously terrible Ron Rivera style trades.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

2 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

The only way I'd trade Allen is if he begs to go and I can't sell him on staying.  Guys like him need to retire in this jersey.  Same for Terry.  They are the only good things about our culture.  But if he is firm on asking out, then I wouldn't hold him hostage.  He's earned the right to have some say in his future, similar to Matt Stafford with Detroit.

 

I love Daron as much or more than any Commanders fan, but I would definitely trade him before losing Allen.  Especially if there is a sequence of events where dealing him to Chicago could get us up to the #1 pick for Caleb Williams.  But that's the only kind of package I would trade Daron for.  Otherwise I'm not dealing him either, and frankly, some of the returns I've seen suggested for these guys are heinously terrible Ron Rivera style trades.

What about Allen and #3 for #1? We’d probably need to throw in another pick. Bears DL becomes the Commanders North haha. 

[Going Commando]

7 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

What about Allen and #3 for #1? We’d probably need to throw in another pick. Bears DL becomes the Commanders North haha. 

 

I'd rather do that deal with Payne instead of Allen.  Maybe the Bears would prefer Payne over Allen because he's younger?

 

If not, and it has to be Allen, then yes, I would make that trade.

[KDawg]

Just now, Going Commando said:

 

I'd rather do that deal with Payne instead of Allen.  Maybe the Bears would prefer Payne over Allen because he's younger?

 

If not, and it has to be Allen, then yes, I would make that trade.

I’m not even that high on Caleb Williams and I’d do that deal. Allen (or Payne, I don’t care) + 3 for 1. But the Bears are getting pretty fleeced there.

[Going Commando]

My day three sleeper wide receiver is Rashod Owens, #10 for OK ST.  Eye opening performance in the Texas Bowl for me.  Went looking for cut ups and can't find them, so he's a deep cut sleeper, where I'm going to have to find his film the old fashioned way of watching games.  He is a contested catch beast, and adjusts the ball in traffic extremely well.  Has a strong body with good height.  Played RB in high school, and has played TE and H-Back for OK ST, before slimming down and settling at WR.  He also has an interesting track background where his long and triple jumps were really good, so don't be surprised if his broad jump at the combine is near the top of the receiver rankings.  It shows how much explosive power he has in his legs.  For a guy whose background is playing in the slot and the middle of the field, he's a surprisingly effective vertical threat, and that's where he gets interesting to me.  But even if that part doesn't translate to the NFL, he's still a powerful contested catch specialist who can be a chain moving big slot in the first and second levels of your passing game.

 

He's still got another year of eligibility though, and OK ST is trying to gear up for a big run next season, where they will likely be favored to win their conference.  He might go back to be a part of that, similar to how all of the good Florida State kids went back this past year.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

15 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’m not even that high on Caleb Williams and I’d do that deal. Allen (or Payne, I don’t care) + 3 for 1. But the Bears are getting pretty fleeced there.

It would probably have to include their 2nd back. And even that may not be enough. I still am not convinced the Bears would trade from 3-1. Makes them vulnerable to what happens at 2. That’s an easier trade to make if we are coming from the 2 spot (Go Cards Go!)

[Est.1974]

Suggested Payne to the Bears yesterday. Can’t see Allen being keen on that move. I think his immediate goal is to win.

[seantaylor=god]

Tahj Washington, WR from USC made a bunch of plays in their bowl game.

Went 7/99 and two TDs. One was a sick catch and run.

 

He has had a nice career and stood out as a guy who can play, IMO.

 

Apparently has long arms and a good blocker despite small size. Great character. Looks very fast.

 

https://www.ocregister.com/2023/12/28/receiver-chef-tahj-washington-epitomized-uscs-rebuild/amp/

 

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by seantaylor=god
Add video

[Going Commando]

Mohamed Toure flashed big time in the bowl game against Miami, and he's my new favorite linebacker prospect in this class.  He is so physical it's almost comical:

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

The only way I'd trade Allen is if he begs to go and I can't sell him on staying.  Guys like him need to retire in this jersey.  Same for Terry.  They are the only good things about our culture.  But if he is firm on asking out, then I wouldn't hold him hostage.  He's earned the right to have some say in his future, similar to Matt Stafford with Detroit.

 

I love Daron as much or more than any Commanders fan, but I would definitely trade him before losing Allen.  Especially if there is a sequence of events where dealing him to Chicago could get us up to the #1 pick for Caleb Williams.  But that's the only kind of package I would trade Daron for.  Otherwise I'm not dealing him either, and frankly, some of the returns I've seen suggested for these guys are heinously terrible Ron Rivera style trades.

 

I got no issue with this take.  The thing is trades in the NFL are often at a discount unless you get lucky or you are trading talent when their contract is cheap and health sometimes a factor, too.

 

For example on Chase young, according to three different reporters Baltimore offered a 2nd and 4th initially before looking at the medicals but once they saw the medicals they bailed.  Supposedly the 49ers also, same issue, had a higher offer but then retracted it to something lower after seeing the medicals.

 

Sticking on Chase, I heard a national reporter say that this coaching staff berated -chewed Chase out for his style of play right before they traded him.  Between that and all of this teams leaks about getting rid of him is an addition by subtraction and they'd have traded him for a 7th rounder if that's all what was offered -- I figure you will have a motivated Chase Young this Sunday.  I like the dude and am rooting for him.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Speaking of day 3 receivers and dudes who played well yesterday. Jacob Cowing.  I've just started to watch him but he grabs me quickly.

 

He's in that Xavier Worthy mode of a player.  Slot WR in the pros.  Smallish.  Fast.  YAC.  Good hands -- not great because he's not a contested catch type of player.  He had sick stats for the last three years. Can return kicks-punts.  And I read an article about him that comes off like he's a super high intangible player.

 

 

 

 

 

The transfer from UTEP will line up in the slot, on the outside, maybe even in the backfield at times. He’ll go deep, catch bubble screens and run fly sweeps.

“There are not many limitations to his game,” Cummings said. “He can go vertical. He can win man on man. And he’s got the smarts and the savviness to adjust to some of that stuff in the slot, some of those zone coverages, slip defenders.

 

“It’s on us as a staff to put him in as many different spots as we can to use those skill sets. For him, he’s just going out there playing, and wherever we line him up, he’s done a great job of figuring out where he needs to be and how to run it.”

https://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcats/football/no-limitations-jacob-cowing-s-speed-skill-make-him-featured-attraction-in-arizona-offense/article_18a6f018-19a8-11ed-a1b6-ff32a1e91cbb.html

Edited December 29, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

My Cooper Beebe love went through the roof last night. In a draft that is packed with OTs and OCs, Beebe is the biggest stud OL in this draft.

 

Dude looks like a 10 year vet in college. I doubt he makes it past 20. 

 

Biggest can't miss player in this draft. Beebe, MHJ and Bowers.

[Chump Bailey]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Speaking of day 3 receivers and dudes who played well yesterday. Jacob Cowing

 

Seeing and hearing his name A LOT! I've not delved into the slot WR's just yet but also already mentioned Virginia's Malik Washington is also very, very good. I see some Zay Flowers in his game. 

[Chump Bailey]

Prospects I either outright missed in my initial go-around or otherwise find interesting:

 

*Apologize if mentioned prior by others 

 

RB:

Rasheen Ali RB Marshall 

 

TE/WR:

 

Grayson Barnes Northern Illinois

 

DL:

 

Myles Cole Texas Tech 5-Tech DT / 3-4 DE is very good

Darius Hodges Tulane 5-Tech DT / 3-4 DE is very good

Kydran Jenkins Purdue OLB/EDGE is very good

 

QB's:

 

Interesting Day 3 QB's (more later in all likelihood)

 

Austin Reed Western Kentucky

Jaxson Dart Ole Miss

Rocky Lombardi Northern Illinois

Kedon Slovis BYU

Seth Henigan Memphis

Edited December 29, 2023 by Chump Bailey

[Chump Bailey]

Top 20 3 Tech DT’s

 

Already messed up forgot Ty Hamilton Ohio State

 

1. JerZhan Newton Illinois

2. Byron Murphy II Texas

3. Tyliek Williams Ohio State *Also would be great 0-Tech/NT

4. Michael Hall Jr. Ohio State

5. Leonard Taylor III Miami

6. Maason Smith *Should return to school seems to take some plays off, but if he were to truly devote himself to the position and the game, he could very easily be in the top 5 conversation

7. Tyler Davis Clemson

8. TJ Sanders South Carolina *Sophomore damn good player

9. Howard Cross Notre Dame

10. Logan Lee Michigan

11. Riley Mills Notre Dame

12. Andre Jefferson Lenior Rhyne

13. Ulumoo Ale Washington

14. Popo Aumavae Oregon

15. Ty Hamilton Ohio State

16. Keenan Stewart UTEP

17. Zion Logue Georgia

18. Isaiah Mullens Wisconsin *Injured

19. Patrick Jenkins Tulane

20. Yahya Black Iowa

 

Honorable mentions or riser's perhaps:

 

Jordan Miller SMU

Caleb Fox TCU 

Warren Brinson Georgia

Malcolm Ray Jr. Florida State

Dennis Briggs Jr. Florida State *Better as 3-4 DE IMO

Tim Smith Alabama

Quincy Ledet Jr. Texas Tech

Jaylon Hutchings Texas Tech

Kyler Baugh Minnesota

Wy’Kevious Thomas South Alabama

Gabe Hall Baylor

Judge Culpepper Toledo

Tomari Fox UNC

Brett Johnson California

Jaylon Hutchins Texas Tech

Edited December 29, 2023 by Chump Bailey

[KDawg]

I’ve been watching Rattler for a write up. 
 

I’ll do that in a few…

 

But I want to reiterate a take that I’ve had for awhile now. Xavier Legette is an absolute stud and is easily the second best receiver in this class… and here’s where I’m going to get a little warm with my take…

 

I don’t think the difference between him and Marvin Harrison, Jr, is that wide of a gulf. It’s narrow. 
 

The dude catches contested passes, out runs everyone after doing it, gets separation, our bodies guys… I’ve never seen anything like it. 
 

If Harrison wasn’t in this class I’d be talking about Legette as the best receiver prospect I’ve seen in years. 

Edited December 29, 2023 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

@Skinsinparadise I’d trust your round judgment but right now Worthy and McConkey seem to be going in the early 2nd with the simulators. Franklin more in the 3rd round range. 

 

I didn't say Worthy in the 3rd-4th.   I said Jacob Cowing. I mentioned he's in the Worthy style of play.  That is lanky shifty-fast slot guy who can run.  But yeah Worthy is talked about as a 2nd rounder.

 

Though just in general I am not married to mocks at this point as some bible type of guide especially post round 1.

 

As to McConkey I've seen him in some mocks in the early 2nd.  And as I've mentioned repeatedly I like the player.  He might end up on my guys list before the draft.   But I still don't see him in the early 2nd unless he has a surprising combine.  Considering his size and getting banged up this season, I'd be surprised if he went higher than mid 3rd.  

Edited December 29, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’ve been watching Rattler for a write up. 
 

I’ll do that in a few…

 

But I want to reiterate a take that I’ve had for awhile now. Xavier Legette is an absolute stud and is easily the second best receiver in this class… and here’s where I’m going to get a little warm with my take…

 

I don’t think the difference between him and Marvin Harrison, Jr, is that wide of a gulf. It’s narrow. 
 

The dude catches contested passes, out runs everyone after doing it, gets separation, our bodies guys… I’ve never seen anything like it. 
 

If Harrison wasn’t in this class I’d be talking about Legette as the best receiver prospect I’ve seen in years. 

 

I raved a few weeks ago, after you did about Legette on my first watch.  But then I watched Nabers and then Odunze and was torn.  I got to watch all three of them back to back.  Maybe tomorrow morning, I'll watch all three back to back.  For me that's my best way to seperate.  

 

When I watched Legette my first impression was DK Metcalf.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[HTTRDynasty]

More potential smoke thrown on Caleb…

 

 

[KDawg]

Spencer Rattler... My bias was opposite McCarthy going into a thorough study. I didn't think he was the best QB in the class or anything... But...

 

Physical Traits:

6-1, 210ish lbs. The weight is fine... Some sites have him at 200. Some have him at 220. Split the difference. The height is, once again, a challenge. 

 

He's likely a sub 5.0 40 guy, probably around 4.8ish.

 

He's below par in the trait department.

 

Arm Talent

Can literally make every throw on the field. There is not a single throw he can't hit. Can spray it every where and he absolutely does. Some of the throws he makes are high end difficulty and he drops them in a bucket to his receiver and gives them space to run. It's surreal watching him when he's on. When he is on his game there isn't a quarterback that I've seen in this class that is better than him as it pertains to arm talent. 

 

His arm really pops on the run; whether that is half roll outs or boots or playaction passes he puts his arm strength on display.

 

His accuracy is literally pin point. He can throw a ball into a tiny window and isn't afraid to do it. The short and intermediate stuff is money for him. Down field breaking routes like corners and posts are child's play. I see some accuracy issues on vertical routes to the sideline. He tends to under or over throw those a bit. But anything up the seam is right in his wheelhouse. 

 

And his release... his release is top notch.

 

Of all the QBs I've watched in this class there is not a better quarterback as it pertains to overall arm talent. He has literally every tool you want. He was a 5-star for a reason. 

 

Pocket Presence

Rattler navigates the pocket really well. He has a good internal clock and bails when appropriate and steps up when needed. He's not afraid to deliver a throw with an impending hit, either. On some of his film, and it's been happening less and less through the years... but still happening... When he gets pressured he can get happy footed. While he'll stand in the pocket and deliver the ball and take the hit, sometimes he forces the throw off of his back foot, or lobs the ball into the general direction of a receiver. Those are areas where he needs to continue to grow.

 

Mechanics

Smooth and consistent for the majority of the time. But again, when he gets pressured and he doesn't have a great escape route he tends to get happy footed and force the issue. Sometimes it works out great. Other times it doesn't work out so well. Throwing off the back foot is an entirely too common occurrence for him when pressured. Though, again, he has gotten better every single year at this if you watch games from each year as a starter, it still becomes an issue at times and has been one of his biggest detriments.

 

He's another one with the "drop back too far" habit that drives me nuts. 

 

Otherwise he is mechanically really, really smooth.

 

And, as mentioned before, he has such a smooth and quick release.

 

Seeing the Field

Another area where he has made major improvements. In his earlier years he was a lock on and laser guy. Now he's reading the field much more. Watching the game against Georgia in particular, because it was the best team he played, he did a really solid job at finding available routes and throwing his receivers open. If I was writing this up in 2022 or 2021 I'd be more nervous for this part of his game... But I'm not now. He is doing a much better job getting to secondary and tertiary reads now. But, continual improvement is still key. 

 

He finds the holes in the zones and exploits them. He really needs to work on front recognition so he can anticipate pressures, but the back end is coming together nicely. 

 

Playmaking

Playmaking and decision making tie in with each other. And this is the rub with Rattler. He makes some really, really bad decisions at times. Whether it's forcing a pass because he wants more than what is actually available or throwing the ball when in the grasp of a sack in a prayer... He leaves room for a lot of error. And the best defenses have consistently feasted on those decisions. Against Georgia in particular, his two INTs came towards the end of the game when he was trying to make something happen, so I can forgive those a bit more... but there was a few other passes that could have been picked that weren't. 

 

But because he plays fearless, he makes some wild plays, too. He is a very balanced quarterback. He can throw on the run while still being a prototypical pocket passer. Some of the throws he makes are not normal. They are the reason he was a 5-star along with his arm talent. 

 

How Does He Translate to the NFL

Rattler was asked to do a lot for South Carolina this year. He's a capable quarterback that needs to continue working on his decision making and pocket presence and continue his growth on front/blitz recognition. But physically he has every tool. He is short, which is a detriment, but at least at the college level his height didn't appear to be much of an issue. He operated from the pocket really well and routinely. 

 

 

My Conclusion

If a team wants to draft a quarterback that is going to continue to be a work in progress but has extremely high potential, look no further than Spencer Rattler. His physical abilities are a major selling point, but he is probably best served sitting a year or two and getting used to the environment and learning and refining his game. But if he ever winds up getting out of his own way the sky is the limit for him and he could be the best QB in the class. But there's a lot that needs to happen to get to that point. 

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

My Conclusion

If a team wants to draft a quarterback that is going to continue to be a work in progress but has extremely high potential, look no further than Spencer Rattler. His physical abilities are a major selling point, but he is probably best served sitting a year or two and getting used to the environment and learning and refining his game. But if he ever winds up getting out of his own way the sky is the limit for him and he could be the best QB in the class. But there's a lot that needs to happen to get to that point. 

 

Awesome level of detail.

 

It's been tough for me to get jazzed about Rattler because of the rap on him from years past as to his attitude.  But I've also read he's matured. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

On 12/28/2023 at 4:08 PM, Rufus T Firefly said:

I had to look it up to see if there really was a "Pop Tarts Bowl" or if you were joking. 

BTW:

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Rufus T Firefly

[Darrell Green Fan]

9 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

This is why I think trading Allen could be a real opportunity. You don’t need to use the pick you trade him for on a DT because you have 3 options there already and his replacement could be a 4th-6th rounder for depth … or a FA rotational piece. 
 

If you could get a 2nd for Allen, it allows you to go OT, WR, OG, TE with 2/2/2/3 … which would be amazing. And you’d be able to focus 3/4/5/6/7 on defense. 
 

Maybe you could get more than a 2 for Allen but I don’t want to set unrealistic expectations. 
 

If Shen is analytics driven and this FO is modeled after the Ravens I could see us using one of those 2’s to trade back for a later 2 and a 3 as well. It gives you a ton of flexibility. 

If you trade Allen for a 2nd you are not opening a huge hole on the DL