Welcome to the Commanders Ricky Stromberg C Arkansas

[Warhead36]

How great would it be if Paul, Stromberg, and Cosmi all panned out and we had three talented young players on the interior of our OL? 

[“Misdirection”]

@London Kev RAS isn’t necessarily what’s perfect height or speed or weight or not. I think it’s just a spectrum from low to high that measures general athleticism on a positional basis. Average height/weight for the position would be a 5.

 

5 height weight and 9 speed/bench/agility might mean a 7.5 RAS

 

9 height weight and 9 speed/bench/agility might mean a 9.5 RAS 

 

but doesn’t take into account that some prefer their centers shorter

Edited April 29, 2023 by “Misdirection”

[HigSkin]

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Apparently, Ricky has visited Hagerstown.

[ntotoro]

4 minutes ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

Apparently, Ricky has visited Hagerstown.

I hope that didn't scare him off...

[XxSpearheadxX]

9 hours ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

Apparently, Ricky has visited Hagerstown.

That don't necessarily make him a bad person

[FrFan]

 

[PCS]

 

[FrFan]

 

[Going Commando]

On 4/29/2023 at 6:08 AM, Wyndorf25 said:

Dubious first 2 picks....LOVE this pick. Welcome Mr. Stromberg!

 

Really?  I think the first two guys we picked are really good and this is one I don't feel that good about.  I know he's got a lot of fans among our draft thread regulars, and I've been trying to see what they love in him, but I can't.  To me he looks like a clumsy/uncoordinated lunger with balance issues and lazy feet.  I think he really struggles to get his hips turned around and really seal blocks/fit the run because of how heavy-footed his lateral steps are.  I think his hand coordination isn't great either and most of his punches are just grabs.  And I don't like that he rolls up on his teammate's legs a lot.  Some really awkward looking waist-bending with hyper extended legs in his cut ups too.  So many reps where he plants his feet hard and they just stop moving.  I do think he's got very good natural power though, and his motor and physicality are both excellent.

 

I really hope I'm wrong about him, and that he's just raw and can be developed into a nice player.  I want to like him.  I hope we found our center for the next eight to ten years.  But I just don't think his cut ups were very good, and I think Chase Roullier is a vastly better player who Stromberg might have trouble supplanting if Chase is healthy this year.

 

I will say this, I'm glad we took Stromberg over Luke Wypler.  I watched both before the draft, didn't really like either, but I thought Wypler looked like a total JAG whose cut ups didn't really show anything impressive.  Stromberg's cut ups have a lot of ugly reps, but there are some really nice ones peppered in there too.

[mhd24]

9 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Really?  I think the first two guys we picked are really good and this is one I don't feel that good about.  I know he's got a lot of fans among our draft thread regulars, and I've been trying to see what they love in him, but I can't.  To me he looks like a clumsy/uncoordinated lunger with balance issues and lazy feet.  I think he really struggles to get his hips turned around and really seal blocks/fit the run because of how heavy-footed his lateral steps are.  I think his hand coordination isn't great either and most of his punches are just grabs.  And I don't like that he rolls up on his teammate's legs a lot.  Some really awkward looking waist-bending with hyper extended legs in his cut ups too.  So many reps where he plants his feet hard and they just stop moving.  I do think he's got very good natural power though, and his motor and physicality are both excellent.

 

I really hope I'm wrong about him, and that he's just raw and can be developed into a nice player.  I want to like him.  I hope we found our center for the next eight to ten years.  But I just don't think his cut ups were very good, and I think Chase Roullier is a vastly better player who Stromberg might have trouble supplanting if Chase is healthy this year.

 

I will say this, I'm glad we took Stromberg over Luke Wypler.  I watched both before the draft, didn't really like either, but I thought Wypler looked like a total JAG whose cut ups didn't really show anything impressive.  Stromberg's cut ups have a lot of ugly reps, but there are some really nice ones peppered in there too.

Nice to see you back!  You were missed during the draft.  Apparently, Gates is slotted in as the starting center.  Wish Rouiller was healthy.  He's a top tier center.  

[Wyndorf25]

2 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Really?  I think the first two guys we picked are really good and this is one I don't feel that good about.  I know he's got a lot of fans among our draft thread regulars, and I've been trying to see what they love in him, but I can't.  To me he looks like a clumsy/uncoordinated lunger with balance issues and lazy feet.  I think he really struggles to get his hips turned around and really seal blocks/fit the run because of how heavy-footed his lateral steps are.  I think his hand coordination isn't great either and most of his punches are just grabs.  And I don't like that he rolls up on his teammate's legs a lot.  Some really awkward looking waist-bending with hyper extended legs in his cut ups too.  So many reps where he plants his feet hard and they just stop moving.  I do think he's got very good natural power though, and his motor and physicality are both excellent.

 

I really hope I'm wrong about him, and that he's just raw and can be developed into a nice player.  I want to like him.  I hope we found our center for the next eight to ten years.  But I just don't think his cut ups were very good, and I think Chase Roullier is a vastly better player who Stromberg might have trouble supplanting if Chase is healthy this year.

 

I will say this, I'm glad we took Stromberg over Luke Wypler.  I watched both before the draft, didn't really like either, but I thought Wypler looked like a total JAG whose cut ups didn't really show anything impressive.  Stromberg's cut ups have a lot of ugly reps, but there are some really nice ones peppered in there too.

 

A few things. First of all, my OP was short-sighted and I have since reflected on the picks in their entirety.

 

I am admittedly guilty of doing WAY too many mock drafts each year and I wind up unintentionally setting my expectations for where I think players should go. So when the team selects a player that I DO like (Forbes) while a player that has slipped way past his perceived draft slot is still on the board (Gonzales), I get disappointed.

 

Then, when I believe that there are offensive players left that I think could help that side of the ball (Mauch, Schmitz and Torrence) and the team not only doubles-down on defense, but go right back to the secondary, I was a bit dismayed. Again, I really like Martin as a player, but never considered him because of the previous pick and that is more on me and not allowing time to process the players they ARE bringing in and how they fit the team. I am guilty of comparing them to MY expectations.

 

All this mea culpa-ism brings me to Stromberg. I was just relieved the team finally selected a IOL and one that I have mocked as a third round selection, so naturally, I was positively biased towards the pick. Is he a finished product? Hell no. Is he a solid player who could push for a starting role and be a competent fill in at a few different spots on the OL when needed? Hell yes. He a third round pick and that is generally what third round pick are--fringe starters.

 

Anyway, this is my way of saying, my OP was more emotional and less analytical. I have since gained better perspective of how the draft unfolded. It sounds like you are far more suited to criticize the players than I am given that you have probably watched more of these guys than I have, but I still like Stromberg enough from the research I have done and I believe his warts can be filed off with decent coaching.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Wyndorf25

[PeterMP]

7 hours ago, Going Commando said:

I think his hand coordination isn't great either and most of his punches are just grabs.  And I don't like that he rolls up on his teammate's legs a lot.  Some really awkward looking waist-bending with hyper extended legs in his cut ups too.  So many reps where he plants his feet hard and they just stop moving.  I do think he's got very good natural power though, and his motor and physicality are both excellent.

 

Not my expertise, but the hand thing seems to me that might be a teachable technique thing.  And I think that might tie into the plants his foot and stop moving part because rather than engaging he gets into people's bodies (where he can grab) and then it is hard to move (especially with getting called for a hold).  

 

If you look at him and say, well he needs to be better with his hands and his initial engagement but that's something he can learn, does that change things?

 

And then is not the case is that something that's actually really hard to reteach.

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, PeterMP said:

 

Not my expertise, but the hand thing seems to me that might be a teachable technique thing.  And I think that might tie into the plants his foot and stop moving part because rather than engaging he gets into people's bodies (where he can grab) and then it is hard to move (especially with getting called for a hold).  

 

If you look at him and say, well he needs to be better with his hands and his initial engagement but that's something he can learn, does that change things?

 

And then is not the case is that something that's actually really hard to reteach.

 

I don't know how malleable these players truly are.  Projecting growth at the next level is the hardest part of developing draft takes for me as a layman observer.  That's why I tend to favor more developed players who show translatable next level techniques/skills at the college level.

 

But my gut says that a player's style is well-defined after as many college starts as Stromberg has had.

 

I think his grabby hand technique could be partially a product of approach.  Typical rep for him is he snaps the ball, sticks his hands straight out to his sides and kind of slides around waiting for the defender to initiate contact, and then kind of clamps his arms around the defender's frame and gets stuck.

 

But punching skill is kind of an innate talent that depends heavily upon hand-eye coordination, and I think Stromberg is a generally uncoordinated player.  I'm not sure how good of a puncher Stromberg can become without becoming a more coordinated player, and TBH I don't think that is something that can be drastically improved at the NFL level.

[PeterMP]

11 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

I don't know how malleable these players truly are.  Projecting growth at the next level is the hardest part of developing draft takes for me as a layman observer.  That's why I tend to favor more developed players who show translatable next level techniques/skills at the college level.

 

But my gut says that a player's style is well-defined after as many college starts as Stromberg has had.

 

I think his grabby hand technique could be partially a product of approach.  Typical rep for him is he snaps the ball, sticks his hands straight out to his sides and kind of slides around waiting for the defender to initiate contact, and then kind of clamps his arms around the defender's frame and gets stuck.

 

But punching skill is kind of an innate talent that depends heavily upon hand-eye coordination, and I think Stromberg is a generally uncoordinated player.  I'm not sure how good of a puncher Stromberg can become without becoming a more coordinated player, and TBH I don't think that is something that can be drastically improved at the NFL level.

 

You do see guys improve/learn new technique even after years of bad technique.  It seems to get talked about less in the NFL where I think individual improvement sometimes is less likely to stand out.  But Jalen Hurts has clearly worked on his throwing mechanics.  His motion is much cleaner and his upper and lower body more in sync to where when he came into the league his "arm strength" was limited and now he throws a nice and accurate deep ball.

 

In other sports, you see it more even among long time vets.  Jason Kidd, never a good shooter through the prime of his career, taught himself to shoot in the last 1/4 of his career and gave it extra years.  Kidd is an interesting case because his new shooting motion wasn't how you'd teach anybody to shoot and looked bad, but it worked for him.  Brook Lopez is another guy that had been in the league for years and then taught himself to shoot.

 

With the launch angel revolution in baseball, a lot of veteran hitters retooled their swing with an emphasis of lifting the ball vs. the traditional square the ball up and drive it approach.

 

Obviously, many people don't improve.  Most NBA players that are bad shooters stay bad shooters.  They either don't put in the work or there is some limitation.  If it is really a case of bad hand eye coordination, then that's a real limit and is going to negatively impact his development.  If it is a matter of bad coaching/practice habits, then given some time I think he could be better.  I doubt it will happen this year (and connecting this idea what I said in the general draft thread about QBs, I think it would be better for him if he didn't play much so that he can focus on learning better technique and not getting ready for next week's game) but maybe next year.

 

Obviously, getting a guy with good technique is better, but if he had good technique with his athletic profile, I think he would have gone earlier in the draft.  I don't have a huge issue with later in the draft taking a guy that's a good athlete with bad technique with the hopes that you can coach him up.

 

Do they do any sort of hand eye coordination testing during the combine or these meetings?  You think they would.  Even the simple sit in front of a computer and click the button when you see the screen change would be somewhat useful.

[KDawg]

Just now, PeterMP said:

 

You do see guys improve/learn new technique even after years of bad technique.  It seems to get talked about less in the NFL where I think individual improvement sometimes is less likely to stand out.  But Jalen Hurts has clearly worked on his throwing mechanics.  His motion is much cleaner and his upper and lower body more in sync to where when he came into the league his "arm strength" was limited and now he throws a nice and accurate deep ball.

 

In other sports, you see it more even among long time vets.  Jason Kidd, never a good shooter through the prime of his career, taught himself to shoot in the last 1/4 of his career and gave it extra years.  Kidd is an interesting case because his new shooting motion wasn't how you'd teach anybody to shoot and looked bad, but it worked for him.  Brook Lopez is another guy that had been in the league for years and then taught himself to shoot.

 

With the launch angel revolution in baseball, a lot of veteran hitters retooled their swing with an emphasis of lifting the ball vs. the traditional square the ball up and drive it approach.

 

Obviously, many people don't improve.  Most NBA players that are bad shooters stay bad shooters.  They either don't put in the work or there is some limitation.  If it is really a case of bad hand eye coordination, then that's a real limit and is going to negatively impact his development.  If it is a matter of bad coaching/practice habits, then given some time I think he could be better.  I doubt it will happen this year (and connecting this idea what I said in the general draft thread about QBs, I think it would be better for him if he didn't play much so that he can focus on learning better technique and not getting ready for next week's game) but maybe next year.

 

Obviously, getting a guy with good technique is better, but if he had good technique with his athletic profile, I think he would have gone earlier in the draft.  I don't have a huge issue with later in the draft taking a guy that's a good athlete with bad technique with the hopes that you can coach him up.

 

Do they do any sort of hand eye coordination testing during the combine or these meetings?  You think they would.  Even the simple sit in front of a computer and click the button when you see the screen change would be somewhat useful.

He doesn't have bad technique, though. It's not top notch text book technique but it isn't bad. Not sure where that narrative is coming from. 

[PeterMP]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

He doesn't have bad technique, though. It's not top notch text book technique but it isn't bad. Not sure where that narrative is coming from. 

 

Okay, maybe bad isn't the right word.  How about not great and a something that limits his upside if he doesn't get better?  I mean he was a 3rd round NFL draft pick.

 

(Though, I think I'm more positive on him than Going Commando.  Going Commando is talking about him having bad hand eye coordination which isn't something that I'd say without more information.)

 

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by PeterMP

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, PeterMP said:

 

Okay, maybe bad isn't the right word.  How about not great and a something that limits his upside if he doesn't get better?  I mean he was a 3rd NFL draft pick.

 

(Though, I think I'm more positive on him than Going Commando.  Going Commando is talking about him having bad hand eye coordination which isn't something that I'd say without more information.)

 

 

I flat out can't even see where the bad hand/eye stuff is coming from. And yes, his technique can improve. So can Broderick Jones. So can JMS. So can Juice Scruggs. So can Anton Harrison. So can Peter Skoronski. They all have bad habits.

 

Stromberg understands his job, gets to his points, gets hands on and executes. He will need to continue to improve himself, but he has a ton of experience and has played very well in the SEC. I agree that his technical stuff may have caused him to drop a bit (combined with being a center and not a freakish for the NFL center). 

[PeterMP]

15 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I flat out can't even see where the bad hand/eye stuff is coming from. And yes, his technique can improve. So can Broderick Jones. So can JMS. So can Juice Scruggs. So can Anton Harrison. So can Peter Skoronski. They all have bad habits.

 

Stromberg understands his job, gets to his points, gets hands on and executes. He will need to continue to improve himself, but he has a ton of experience and has played very well in the SEC. I agree that his technical stuff may have caused him to drop a bit (combined with being a center and not a freakish for the NFL center). 

 

Can we agree that the first play of the highlight video in this thread is less than ideal technique?  That ending up with both fists full of jersey on the outside of the DL's frame is less than ideal and against a stronger, faster, and more experienced player could turn that into a holding call?

Edited May 3, 2023 by PeterMP

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

Can we agree that the first play of the highlight video in this thread is less than ideal technique?  That ending up with both fists full of jersey on the outside of the DL's frame is less than ideal and against a stronger, faster, and more experienced player could turn that into a holding call?

Can we agree that I said his technique needs to improve, like all prospects? Watch Skoronski for God's sake. He's a walking hold at times.

 

That has zero to do with bad hand eye or bad technique on a consistent basis. He needs to refine and cut down on mistakes, we can agree there. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Been awhile since I watched Stromberg.   But I'll rewatch. 

 

But from what I recall he initiates the contact where he is physical in the run game, where he can be a people mover.    Sustains his blocks.  He owned up to that he has his hands too wide at times, and that can lead to lunges but is working on it.

 

As for pass protect, it's a quirk of mine perhaps but I don't like O lineman who let the defender get to their outside shoulder easily.  I like O lineman who could keep the defender sqaure and from what I recall Stromberg was good at doing that.  

 

As for balance issues brought up.  I said it on the draft thread weeks back.  From what I observed ALL of the centers in this draft have it to some extent.  They get a bit upright in their stance and don't sink their hips enough -- and all of them need to work on it to some extent but I recall with Stromberg, even off balance he'd manage to get it done typically.

 

Supposedly a smart kid, good vision, quick at making calls presnap, and helping with protections.  Gave up 0 sacks, and that is playing in the SEC last season and was named the O lineman of the year in that conference.

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[PeterMP]

32 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Can we agree that I said his technique needs to improve, like all prospects? Watch Skoronski for God's sake. He's a walking hold at times.

 

That has zero to do with bad hand eye or bad technique on a consistent basis. He needs to refine and cut down on mistakes, we can agree there. 

 

Yes, we can agree to that.  You just said it.  I'm just trying to tell you where I come up with the idea of bad technique (okay, not bad but not great to the point that his upside is limited if he doesn't get better at it).  

 

I didn't watch every game or snap of his or any offensive lineman.  But I did watch a good bit from him and some from the other OL drafted around him, and from what I've seen, he ends up in that situation more than most of the other OL drafted around him.

 

And the numbers say he's a better athlete than many of the OL that were drafted around him.  So why does he end up in that situation more than them? to me that indicates issues with technique and/or just sloppy/lazy play.

 

I think Going Commando has taken it a step further and said it is the result of bad eye hand coordination.  He fails to properly get his hand engaged on the DL initially because he doesn't have great control of his hands (for an NFL starting caliber lineman)

 

You want to tell me over a larger sampling of plays over a larger set of OL that he doesn't have issues with getting fists full jersey outside of DL's frame, fine.

Edited May 3, 2023 by PeterMP

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, PeterMP said:

 

Yes, we can agree to that.  You just said it.  I'm just trying to tell you where I come up with the idea of bad technique.  

 

I didn't watch every game or snap of his or any offensive lineman.  But I did watch a good bit from him and some from the other OL drafted around him, and from what I've seen, he ends up in that situation more than most of the other OL drafted around him.

 

And the numbers say he's a better athlete than many of the OL that were drafted around him.  So why does he end up in that situation more than them? to me that indicates issues with technique and/or just sloppy/lazy play.

 

I think Going Commando has taken it a step further and said it is the result of bad eye hand coordination.  He fails to properly get his hand engaged on the DL initially because he doesn't have great control of his hands (for an NFL starting caliber lineman)

 

You want to tell me over a larger sampling of plays over a larger set of OL that he doesn't have issues with getting fists full jersey outside of DL's frame, fine.

 

Oh, he does it a fair share. I'd say that's just his style. Interior OL will rarely get called for that. It's actually coached that way at many levels. Hands to edges of chest plate, elbows tucked, take the DL where they want to go. I don't see a whole lot of jersey separating from shoulder pads when he grasps, which is what is going to be what generates holds. From what I see, his primary issue with his technique is that he plays with higher hips than he should at times. It's not a balance issue, persay, it's more that because his hips are up he takes longer to get to the POA and that can make it look like he's late to respond. But when I watch his helmet (from the views we have its the best we can do) his eyes seem to be in the exact correct spot and his hands firing. 

 

I'd like for him to play a bit lower than he does and do a better job of fitting his helmet to the chest of the DL. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[MassSkinsFan]

Admittedly, I've only watched the clips in this thread, but I'm seeing something I think he does really well - reach blocking. Several of the running plays show him reaching across a defender to engage the opposite shoulder, then turning the defender perpendicular to the line, sealing off his side of the planned hole. He also seems to know when he needs to ride the defender past the hole when he realizes he won't be able to turn them. His pass pro can definitely use some work but I'm cautiously optimistic - I guess that applies to everything WFT though... 😂