Welcome to the Commanders Emmanuel Forbes CB Mississippi State

[NoCalMike]

41 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

Out of curiosity, does anybody know if there is good correlation between college interceptions and NFL career interceptions?

I know at the NFL level there is a lot of randomness in interceptions from year to year (e.g. http://www.advancedfootballanalytics.com/2010/11/how-random-are-interceptions.html).  College is fewer games normally per a season, and you have what like 2 years of data really.  Assuming the same randomness, I'm wondering how useful college states are really in evaluating something like that.  I'd be curious if there's any real value to showing being a "ball hawk" in college to NFL production.

 

I honestly have no idea, it might differ player to player. Then again, in the NFL things can get weird too, remember Carlos Rodgers?  We called him Carlos Dropdgers and Hands of Stone because he couldn't ever hold onto intereceptions thrown right into his hands/chest, but then he goes to the 49ers and has a pro bowl season because out of nowhere he is holding on to everything.

 

I think with Forbes, for now, the important thing is that his coverage on a lot of the short stuff and comebacks is pretty solid.  His instincts are good and he is in position to make a lot of impact plays despite having only come down INT.  His scouting report out of college was pretty accurate as it said he was susceptible to the double move and so far it seems like every single team we face is going to test him on it throughout the game.  AJ Brown is prob the best 1 on 1 test he has had so far and he got taken to school on a lot of plays, but also was in position to make 2-3 INTs.    

 

[ExoDus84]

Forbes had a rough game, but I'm not going to declare him a bust because he had a rough game going 1 on 1 with AJ Brown. Brown is a bad man. 

 

I put the blame on whatever dumbass defensive coach thought it was a good idea to leave Forbes on an island against Brown in the first place. Especially after Brown ate his lunch multiple times. 

 

He's an inexperienced, 180 pound rookie. Who the hell that that was a good game plan? 

[SkinsFTW]

It wasn't just on Brown. He was on Smith on that long pass right before halftime and cost a FG on top of the 2 TD's he cost while covering Brown. This dude was toast all day. He was in position for an Int and got pushed out of it by Brown while he NEVER did the same on a reception. I mean, Brown is a better DB as well lol. 

[Dark Acre]

30 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

It wasn't just on Brown. He was on Smith on that long pass right before halftime and cost a FG on top of the 2 TD's he cost while covering Brown. This dude was toast all day. He was in position for an Int and got pushed out of it by Brown while he NEVER did the same on a reception. I mean, Brown is a better DB as well lol. 

Why isn't Forbes just allowed to freelance?  Seems to me that that's where he'd shine.  In a passing league, you gotta let a guy like Forbes play to his strengths -- instincts, speed, and range.  You can't make him primarily responsible for someone.  He should play free corner.

[Playaction2Sanders]

Did we all forget how horrible Trevon Diggs looked his rookie year in Dallas?? McClaurin burning him on multiple occasions. By his second season he near the top of the league in picks. Still giving up big plays but you saw him improving, and now he's one of the best in the league, giving up fewer plays to the point the ball wasn't going his way.

 

Let the kid make some mistakes, you could see after the 2nd Brown TD how upset he was, he cares. He'll grow.. Lets no write him off..

[Going Commando]

14 hours ago, Conn said:

Pretty much left him alone on AJB according to AJB 

 

Philly has two vertical threats in their offense and we left our third corner, playing in his fourth game, on an island outside on one of those two threats, even after they'd seen him struggle, and even though they knew the DL was gassed and no longer generating pressure.

 

What exactly did they have the safeties doing Sunday?  Were they rolling coverages to help Fuller and St Juste underneath?  were they using them to spy instead of Jamin or Barton?  If so, what possible defense could be offered for those decisions?  That is genuinely horrible coaching.  They set Forbes up to fail, and it lost us the game.  All they had to ****ing do was sit back in two high shells and shade safety help over Smith and Brown.  Olamide Zaccheus and Dallas Goedert are not going to ****ing kill you.  Jesus Jack Del Rio can not possibly do less with more.  We have absolutely loaded up his side of the ball and given him everything he could ask for, he is just a dip****.

[Going Commando]

9 hours ago, TheGoodBits said:

The lack of tackling effort after giving up the long pass is infuriating. Benchable imo. 

 

Which one?  Forbes runs way the Hell out of the play after the catch, Forrest was just as out of position and ended up effectively blocking Forbes and then made no effort to recover, and Fuller gives one of the most pathetically soft efforts to make an open field tackle I've ever seen, not even attempting to get off a block by 170 pound Devonta Smith.  The whole secondary played that soft as baby ****, but you can't bench everyone.

 

Breakdowns like that are a sign of a demoralized group.  Del Rio is losing these guys and they aren't trusting each other or the system.

[Going Commando]

6 hours ago, CTskin said:

I was upset with the Davis pick, I was upset with the Dotson trade-back move, and I was again upset by taking Forbes over Gonzalez. Suuure forbes has time to grow, but that’s not the point. Del rio want a guy who can be on an island and Gonzalez is already that dude. Most of us knew he was that dude pre-draft. Just like we knew jamin Davis was a reach…

 

Forbes was Del Rio's guy.  Watch the draft video the team put out covering the room when they made the Forbes pick.  They called Del Rio in and told him he was getting his wish, and Del Rio was giddy.  It's pretty clear he was the driving force behind picking Forbes, and it's also clear he thinks he's fine to leave Forbes on an island outside against a mismatch in a week where the kid is probably still playing hurt and he's scuffling and reading the field poorly.

 

Del Rio hangs these dudes out to dry.  I'm waiting for him to call Forbes out in the media like he did with Jamin and pretend like that **** is all part of some strategy to motivate them to brilliance.  He's a ****ty coach and it's time for him to go.  Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick don't hang their young DBs out to dry.  They put them in position to succeed.  Our secondary is loaded with talent and they're not just underachieving, they're playing like **** and it is dragging the entire defense down.  Our issues on defense aren't talent based.  They aren't about reaching in the draft.  They are coaching issues.

[Koolblue13]

12 hours ago, CTskin said:

 I was upset with the Dotson trade-back move

That may have been the best draft day trade this franchise has ever made.

 

They had the option to trade back again, too and if they did and then took Tyler Smith or Lindenbaum in the first, then Pickens or Watson in the second, it would have been the best draft day this franchise has ever seen.

[PeterMP]

10 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

 

I honestly have no idea, it might differ player to player. Then again, in the NFL things can get weird too, remember Carlos Rodgers?  We called him Carlos Dropdgers and Hands of Stone because he couldn't ever hold onto intereceptions thrown right into his hands/chest, but then he goes to the 49ers and has a pro bowl season because out of nowhere he is holding on to everything.

 

I think with Forbes, for now, the important thing is that his coverage on a lot of the short stuff and comebacks is pretty solid.  His instincts are good and he is in position to make a lot of impact plays despite having only come down INT.  His scouting report out of college was pretty accurate as it said he was susceptible to the double move and so far it seems like every single team we face is going to test him on it throughout the game.  AJ Brown is prob the best 1 on 1 test he has had so far and he got taken to school on a lot of plays, but also was in position to make 2-3 INTs.    

 

 

Yeah, I was just asking the board in general.

 

But I think Carlos is a good example of what I'm talking about.  He gets 6 interceptions that one year.  If you watched that one season, you might think he's a real ballhawk.  But the next year he's back down to 1 and never gets more than 2 in other year in his career.

 

The comparable thing that I'm more familiar with is 3 point shooting.  Adam Morrision shoots almost 43% from 3 his final year in college.  Will probably be a plus 3 point shooter in the NBA?

 

No.  He only shoots 33.7% (his first year which is really his only healthy year).  But if you look at his other years in college, he was below a 33% three point shooter.  And he was a good FT shooter, but not elite.  It looks like he had one year in college where he got lucky a lot and turned that into being a high NBA pick.

[kingdaddy]

9 hours ago, ExoDus84 said:

Forbes had a rough game, but I'm not going to declare him a bust because he had a rough game going 1 on 1 with AJ Brown. Brown is a bad man. 

 

I put the blame on whatever dumbass defensive coach thought it was a good idea to leave Forbes on an island against Brown in the first place. Especially after Brown ate his lunch multiple times. 

 

He's an inexperienced, 180 pound rookie. Who the hell that that was a good game plan? 

 

[Warhead36]

40 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

Yeah, I was just asking the board in general.

 

But I think Carlos is a good example of what I'm talking about.  He gets 6 interceptions that one year.  If you watched that one season, you might think he's a real ballhawk.  But the next year he's back down to 1 and never gets more than 2 in other year in his career.

 

The comparable thing that I'm more familiar with is 3 point shooting.  Adam Morrision shoots almost 43% from 3 his final year in college.  Will probably be a plus 3 point shooter in the NBA?

 

No.  He only shoots 33.7% (his first year which is really his only healthy year).  But if you look at his other years in college, he was below a 33% three point shooter.  And he was a good FT shooter, but not elite.  It looks like he had one year in college where he got lucky a lot and turned that into being a high NBA pick.

Yep. Relying on turnovers is silly because of how volatile the stat is. Even the truly great ballhawks might have years where they only get 3-4 picks. Is it then worth it if they're also still getting roasted?

 

Its better to have guys who can lock their man down and get the occasional pick on terrible throws/decisions. Dropped picks aren't a sign of poor play if they're consistently in position to drop those picks. 

44 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

That may have been the best draft day trade this franchise has ever made.

 

They had the option to trade back again, too and if they did and then took Tyler Smith or Lindenbaum in the first, then Pickens or Watson in the second, it would have been the best draft day this franchise has ever seen.

I still like Dotson as frustrated as I am with him(that 3rd down drop was an absolute huge momentum killer)but in retrospect Linderbaum would have been huge for restabilizing our OL. Kid has been a stud in Baltimore.

[kingdaddy]

5 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yep. Relying on turnovers is silly because of how volatile the stat is. Even the truly great ballhawks might have years where they only get 3-4 picks. Is it then worth it if they're also still getting roasted?

 

Its better to have guys who can lock their man down and get the occasional pick on terrible throws/decisions. Dropped picks aren't a sign of poor play if they're consistently in position to drop those picks. 

I still like Dotson as frustrated as I am with him(that 3rd down drop was an absolute huge momentum killer)but in retrospect Linderbaum would have been huge for restabilizing our OL. Kid has been a stud in Baltimore.

There are also guys like Diggs for Dallas who had a monster rookie season with like 10-12 picks or something but he was one of the worst rated corners because of how often he got toasted. He ended up making the pro bowl too which was ridiculous cause many corners were rated more highly than he was. I think Forbes time is coming this year, he's got one pick, dropped one on Sunday. He's gonna figure it out eventually.

[Warhead36]

Just now, kingdaddy said:

There are also guys like Diggs for Dallas who had a monster rookie season with like 10-12 picks or something but he was one of the worst rated corners because of how often he got toasted. He ended up making the pro bowl too which was ridiculous cause many corners were rated more highly than he was. I think Forbes time is coming this year, he's got one pick, dropped one on Sunday. He's gonna figure it out eventually.

And his interception totals the year before and the year after he put up 10 were only 3 and 3, respectively.

[Koolblue13]

12 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yep. Relying on turnovers is silly because of how volatile the stat is. Even the truly great ballhawks might have years where they only get 3-4 picks. Is it then worth it if they're also still getting roasted?

 

Its better to have guys who can lock their man down and get the occasional pick on terrible throws/decisions. Dropped picks aren't a sign of poor play if they're consistently in position to drop those picks. 

I still like Dotson as frustrated as I am with him(that 3rd down drop was an absolute huge momentum killer)but in retrospect Linderbaum would have been huge for restabilizing our OL. Kid has been a stud in Baltimore.

Having Linderbaum and Pickens, instead of Dotson would be awesome.

[Skinsinparadise]

At a minimum gives Forbes some more safety help

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

When the Commanders took Emmanuel Forbes Jr. in the first round of April’s draft, Coach Ron Rivera described him as a difference-maker, a game changer, the guy Washington had wanted all along. Despite his lanky 166-pound frame, Forbes had the length and speed of a coveted corner, plus a decorated résumé after three years of playing in the SEC, widely regarded as the highest echelon of college football.

 

 

“He’s the total package, he really is,” Commanders General Manager Martin Mayhew said of Forbes after the draft. “He can do everything that a corner should be able to do.”

It’d be shortsighted to dispute Forbes’s potential after only four games. But so far, he has played less like a plug-and-play prospect and more like a young, developing player whose game needs refinement before he can compete in the pros.

 

This season, Forbes has been targeted 25 times and allowed 18 catches for a league-high 356 yards (an average of 19.8 yards per reception), according to Pro Football Focus. Opposing quarterbacks have a 124.2 passer rating when targeting him, and receivers have collected 79 yards after the catch against him.

 

...The dagger was Brown’s go-ahead 28-yard touchdown off a double move that gave Philly a 31-24 lead in the final two minutes. Forbes played about seven yards off from the line of scrimmage and bit on Brown’s first move, leaving him trailing as Hurts threw a perfect over-the-shoulder pass in the back of the end zone.

Forbes sat dejected behind the end zone as Brown celebrated and picked up a taunting penalty for laying the ball in the rookie corner’s lap, as if it were a souvenir. When Forbes finally stood, linebacker Cody Barton and veteran corner Kendall Fuller walked over to console him.

 

“I told him last year I had a similar game against Philly the first time we played and came back and had a better game the second time we played them and had a better season after that,” Fuller said. “That’s life as a DB. You can work as hard as you want, you can be as good as you want. You can’t avoid those types of days.”

“Man, they gave the young boy a lot of respect, man,” Brown told reporters after the game. “He … started following me, and it was like one-on-one most of the time. So they gave him a lot of respect coming into the game.”

When asked what he gleaned from the loss, Forbes quickly said his “eye discipline” — knowing where to look and when on pass plays — could’ve been better.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[ixcuincle]

Good comments on the Keim podcast about how teams are going to test Forbes now after seeing that performance. Let them try.

 

Kid didn't have a good game but he was doing pretty decent early on. We'll see if he steps up and makes them pay.

[Going Commando]

Forbes is getting killed for biting on that double move, and he ****ed up no doubt.  But what is inexcusable is the call.  Why the **** are our safeties playing at shallow zone depth, even with the corners?  Why is there a ****ing triple coverage designed for the middle of the field when the Eagles are showing a basic three route concept?  Why is your struggling rookie left on an island against a mismatch in a critical situation in the game?  Why the Hell are you faking quarters coverage while showing blitz there?  Hurts knows that coverage is bull****.

 

They should have been playing ****ing 2 high.  To not have a single safety back deep when you've been getting killed deep is playcalling malpractice.

 

I don't care how talented the players are, you have to put them in position to succeed via coaching and calling.  Del Rio is doing the opposite with Forbes. Did that **** with Jamin his rookie year too.

[Rogue Jedi]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 Why the **** are our safeties playing at shallow zone depth, even with the corners?  Why is there a ****ing triple coverage designed for the middle of the field when the Eagles are showing a basic three route concept?  Why is your struggling rookie left on an island against a mismatch in a critical situation in the game?  Why the Hell are you faking quarters coverage while showing blitz there?  Hurts knows that coverage is bull****.

 

 

The answer is simple, because Jack Del Rio is a clown.

[JSSkinz]

2 hours ago, Going Commando said:

Why the **** are our safeties playing at shallow zone depth, even with the corners? 

I saw the same exact thing happen in the Broncos game on one of their long TD passes. Four weeks in you would hope this would get better.

[ntotoro]

The last 137 DC's this team has had has lined up DB's deep like that for... reasons.

 

What they are, I have no clue.

[oraphus]

15 hours ago, Playaction2Sanders said:

Did we all forget how horrible Trevon Diggs looked his rookie year in Dallas?? McClaurin burning him on multiple occasions. By his second season he near the top of the league in picks. Still giving up big plays but you saw him improving, and now he's one of the best in the league, giving up fewer plays to the point the ball wasn't going his way.

 

Let the kid make some mistakes, you could see after the 2nd Brown TD how upset he was, he cares. He'll grow.. Lets no write him off..

Diggs was a 2nd rd pick... Forbes was a top 16 pick. a mid rd 1st rounder is expected to be good right away(unless you're riverboat Ron)   .. see Gonzalez and Witherspoon. So far looks like Del Rio and Riverra "outsmarted" themselves yet once again... surprise, surprise. You'd getter a better hit rate just throwing darts at the draft-board. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by oraphus

[Warhead36]

I'm not writing Forbes off. I think he'll end up being a good player but one of those guys who gives up lots of big plays for the occasional huge season with lots of picks. I don't think you can ever rely on him to be a real lockdown CB. I see a poor man's Deangelo Hall(and I don't think he has anywhere near the ball skills or athletic fluidity that Hall had).

[Rogue Jedi]

Apparently Forbes just deleted his Instagram due to hate from fans.

 

I mean, I’m hard on the guy, but to go out of your way to say nasty **** to him on his social media is pretty low.

 

We’re better than this, Commanders fans.