What’s The Reason Behind Gibbs Not Getting The Respect Other Great Coaches Get?

[Dark Acre]

The Bills were not inferior competition (well, inferior to the Skins, but everyone else was too).  HC - Marv Levy.  QB - Jim Kelly + Thurman Thomas, Andre Reed, and a bunch of stars on D.  They repeatedly choked in the SB, but that 1991 Bills team was pretty damn good until the big game.  The '87 Broncos had John Elway, who many considered one of the best QBs ever just at that point, and they had a damn good roster too.  I'll grant you the '82 Phins; their roster was so meek they had a guy named Kim on the DL.  But they somehow made it past their competition and then Gibbs and the Skins did was great teams do - pull it out in the clutch.  No double-entendre there (Gibbs ain't no Jim Morrison).  Gibbs wasn't a self-promotor and by the time of his 2nd SB, many of the 1st SB crew, including Riggo and Theismann, were gone.  People remember the Hogs (but only as a group over time) and the fact that Gibbs won with 3 different starting QBs and 3 different starting RBs, so that doesn't really indicate arse-kicking dynasty dude to most people.  Just a really good, 2nd-tier of the top of the totem pole, coach.

 

If Bobby Beathard had managed to engineer a trade for Miami's 1st in 1983 w/o giving up our own, Gibbs would have won double-digit Super Bowls because he would've known how, and been able to use, Marino the right way.

[Renegade7]

On 2/27/2023 at 9:54 AM, MartinC said:

 

That should help him, not hurt him.

 

He won Super Bowls with Joe Thiesmann, Doug Williams and Mark Rypien. Joe was the best of the three but none of them are in the conversation for all time greats. Winning with three different and no better than good QBs should cement just how good a coach Gibbs was.

 

While I agree, I'm pointing out why I believe his name doesn't come up enough, its not attached to a famous QB, so its like its forgotten by many what he accomplished without one.

[SkinsFTW]

On 2/28/2023 at 9:47 PM, Renegade7 said:

 

While I agree, I'm pointing out why I believe his name doesn't come up enough, its not attached to a famous QB, so its like its forgotten by many what he accomplished without one.

Thats true but certainly having Joe Montana and also Jerry Rice made it a lot easier for Walsh, and he even had a worse W-L record than Gibbs while playing in a weak division that entire decade. What Gibbs was able to do with average QB's like Williams and Rypien was definitely more impressive. It would be like if Harbaugh won 3 SB's with Flacco, and 2 other QB's that nobody else wanted. I mean, no team in the entire league wanted Williams so he was willing to be the backup for Gibbs. Rypien wouldn't have started on any other teams. He wasn't even average without that OL giving him all day without giving up sacks. 

 

Look at Belichick now with no Goat QB. IMO the closest comparison to Gibbs is Tom Coughlin who won with an average Eli Manning but he had him for both SB wins. Also, Parcells won with Simms and Hostetler but just won twice as well. 

[ultravin]

honestly, if this team was bought by someone else instead of Snyder, he would be talked about being one of the best.  

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I think we are hitting on the reasons, quite honestly. Gibbs was always someone who WAS mentioned as an all-time great by experts and media while he was still coaching and after he left the game. As we get further away from his body of work, since we can't point to a three-peat or all-time great player to link him to, he doesn't stand out to this ADHD world we live in. 

 

So, it takes some discussion and points being made...that's why he gets left out and people need to be reminded. It's why sometimes our teams were overlooked in the thick of playoff runs in the 1980s only to beat the Eagles or Bears or Cowboys or 49ers. 

 

He, without a doubt, deserves to be mentioned among the great NFL coaches. What he did is phenomenal. But, I can understand why some other teams are more memorable and stand out to non-Washington fans. Some would yawn about that methodical win over Miami, even though it probably has the most iconic Super Bowl play in team history, in a strike-shortened season. Some would also point to the fact that Timmy Smith, Doug Williams, and Ricky Sanders were all backups when the post-season started...even though we all understand that STRENGTHENS the case for Gibbs being a great coach. The only team that occasionally gets the respect it deserves is the 1991 team, because it dominated most of the year and blew the doors of the its playoff opponents - then beat a supposed great team in the Super Bowl. But that team is sometimes discounted because the path was soft (not untrue) or we had a one-season-wonder at QB. 

 

Joe Gibbs' body of work is undeniable. I just think it's sometimes so methodical and so spread out (kind of like Popp in the NBA), that it's understandable why fans of other teams instantly remember the 49ers in the 1980s and the Cowboys in the 1990s and need to be reminded of the Redskins that bridged both dynasties. What I don't usually hear is his name being discounted...if it's brought up, everyone acknowledges that he belongs. He's just forgotten sometimes. 

[hail2skins]

For whatever reason remembered this thread from last year. Thanks to the boss Pat Mahomes, Andy Reid is now the best head coach in the history of the sports universe 

[Tyler Spiers]

On 2/14/2023 at 11:09 AM, skinsfan66 said:

Should have never came back and teamed with Snyder.

Why? That was the best team we had under Snyder. I loved when he came back, the best thing Snyder ever did. However, Gibbs shouldn't have signed Mark Brunell, he should have signed Kurt Warner, who was available. He definitely would have won a Super Bowl with Warner because Warner reminded me of a more talented Mark Rypien.

 

I would put him on Mount Rushmore though, winning with 3 different QB's and that 91 team was won of the best teams ever assembled. He hasn't coached for awhile and was a very soft spoken, very down to Earth guy so it may be hard for people to remember how great he truly was. In his prime, I would take him over Bellichick or Reid, neither of whom would have won Super Bowls without their Supermen QB's.

[kingdaddy]

On 3/5/2023 at 8:35 PM, SkinsFTW said:

Thats true but certainly having Joe Montana and also Jerry Rice made it a lot easier for Walsh, and he even had a worse W-L record than Gibbs while playing in a weak division that entire decade. What Gibbs was able to do with average QB's like Williams and Rypien was definitely more impressive. It would be like if Harbaugh won 3 SB's with Flacco, and 2 other QB's that nobody else wanted. I mean, no team in the entire league wanted Williams so he was willing to be the backup for Gibbs. Rypien wouldn't have started on any other teams. He wasn't even average without that OL giving him all day without giving up sacks. 

 

Look at Belichick now with no Goat QB. IMO the closest comparison to Gibbs is Tom Coughlin who won with an average Eli Manning but he had him for both SB wins. Also, Parcells won with Simms and Hostetler but just won twice as well. 

Your point about how Joe Gibbs won coming out of the NFC East as opposed to Walsh in the NFC West can't be emphasized enough. Hell, winning the NFC East back in the 80's was probably harder than winning the Super Bowl. Look at the coaches in the NFC East back then.....Gibbs, Landry, Parcells and the Eagles had Dick Vermeil/Buddy Ryan. Jimmy Johnson came to Dallas in 1989 so that's 5 HOF coaches from the same division in the 80's. And Gibbs won 2 SB's in the 80's with 3 NFC Championships. Pretty impressive. 

[NOLA2DC]

On 2/14/2023 at 8:17 PM, kingdaddy said:

He's one of the most accomplished winners in American sports history, beyond the NFL. Joe Gibbs has been dominant in both the NFL and in NASCAR...who else has dominated 2 sports in their lifetime? 

 

 

I think its a reflection of time passing mainly. However, anyone who knows the guys who have multiple rings has to mention Joe. The odd thing is people will mention  Parcells and forget Joe has three. Finally, I think BB's 6, combined with Reid's recent run, means people forget Joe.

[goskins10]

26 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

I think its a reflection of time passing mainly. However, anyone who knows the guys who have multiple rings has to mention Joe. The odd thing is people will mention  Parcells and forget Joe has three. Finally, I think BB's 6, combined with Reid's recent run, means people forget Joe.

 

The best part of that is Bill Parcells said Joe Gibbs was the best coach he ever coached against. Also not talked about muich wsa not only did Joe do it with 3 different starting QB, he did it with mulpible RBs. Riggins retired after 1985. Timmy Smth anyone? 

Edited February 13 by goskins10

[Conn]

Very excited to no longer have to live in the past. Gibbs is certainly an all-time great. He should’ve learned to shut his trap about Snyder’s positive qualities a long time ago, but he seems like a generally naive person in that regard because he’s a good guy. 
 

People who know what they’re talking about would never forget to mention Gibbs among the greats. No one else matters.

 

But again, for me personally I’m ready to focus less on the past now that we have an interesting present and a hopeful future. 

[Commander PK]

4 hours ago, hail2skins said:

For whatever reason remembered this thread from last year. Thanks to the boss Pat Mahomes, Andy Reid is now the best head coach in the history of the sports universe 

When Reid wins two more with two different starting QB’s maybe we can talk about him being the best.

 

I wouldn’t hold my breath 😉 😀 

 

 

[SB17]

Then Gibbs switched sports entirely (NASCAR) and won championships there.

 

Somebody please name another NFL Super Bowl winning coach that has done that.

 

[crickets 😆]

 

He was simply amazing.

[88Comrade2000]

Gibbs is standard here and that’s all that matters. Until someone wins 4 SuperBowls here; that will be what every coach will be judged upon.

[NoCalMike]

I think for me the main reason Gibbs isn't mentioned (by some) as an all time great in the top tier of head coaches is the reason he should actually be put there.....because Gibbs won a Superbowl with 3 different versions of a championship team.  When you look at the Walsh, Belichick, Noll, etc etc etc.....the main difference is that they either had a bonified HOF Franchise QB for the entire run and/or pretty much the same dominant roster the entire run.  Belichick is the exception on the roster as a whole, but Tom Brady was there the entire run and look at what Bill has managed to accomplish without Tom Brady prior and post Brady......

 

To me Gibbs (and his coaching staff) truly felt like the difference makers on those championshop teams.  Perhaps the '91 team was so stacked and primed for a run that it might have been a little easier on Gibbs but definitely the first two superbowls did not feel like they necessarily had the best roster in the NFL but Gibbs was able to game plan and scheme to counter the strengths of their opponents so well and it wasn't like the modern day version where you look for the opponents weaknesses necessarily, it was more attacking their strengths by giving them looks and formations they couldn't deal with.  I remember so many experts thought the Orange Crush defense would bottle up Washington's offense, so Gibbs used a lot of presnap motion to force those linebackers to have to over think everything instead of just read & react.   It was truly coaching excellence on display.

[justice98]

On 2/14/2023 at 2:09 PM, skinsfan66 said:

Should have never came back and teamed with Snyder.

 

That just enhanced his legacy, rather than detract from it, IMO.  Admittedly, it wasn't the best version of him, as there were some game passing him by, Willie Mayes stumbling in the outfield moments.  But they had 9 coaches (not counting interims) since he retired the first time and only 1 could get this team to the playoffs more than once and it was him.  

[justice98]

On 2/15/2023 at 12:08 AM, hail2skins said:

Three of the 1987 games were played with replacement players.

 

But the argument I use against the people who discount 1982 and 1987 is what the team did in the seasons either prior or following the SB. The 83 Skins followed up the Lombardi year with a 14-2 season and another SB trip. The 1986 Skins went 12-4 and to the NFCCG. A team like the 2000 Giants, who sandwiched their SB appearance with two 7-9 seasons, I think can be viewed as more fluky.

 

The replacement games is an asset to the resume.  You're taking these replacement players and coalescing them into a winner.  That's coaching.  And lest we forget, his replacement players beat the Cowboys who had a bunch of regulars, including the starting QB and 3 future HoFers.  On the road, at that.  It'd be like if we rolled out replacements against Dak Prescott, Micah Parsons, CeeDee Lamb, Zach Martin, et al and beat them.  Gibbs has all the hardware, but it's the stuff like that he needs to get extra credit for.

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

It's definitely a fact, that he doesn't get respect or praise whatsoever. Even from the older generation, who should remember him quite well. Whether it's Undisputed, First Take, First things First, sports radio, you name it. Whenever the topic is greatest head coaches or mount Rushmore or head coaches, they never and I mean NEVER mention the legendary, phenomenal Joe Gibbs.

[Commander PK]

Bottom line, no coach will ever win 3 Super Bowls without a franchise QB for all three again.  Will never happen, which is why Gibbs is the best.

[sinews]

Lots of good comments in this thread so I'll just reiterate: Gibbs was the ultimate *team* coach, and his first run is emblematic of what great coaching looks like. Although everyone recognizes that, yes, of course football is a team sport, I think it's all too easy to get distracted by the big names, the big performances and accolades, all that is bestowed on the great players. We still love and root for individuals, and that's fine. 

 

But Gibbs elevated the team beyond mere individual players, this was a coach who truly practiced what he preached about team sports. There were great players respected around the league in those days, sure, but winning 3 SBs with 3 different QBs is unheard of and I don't know how many other coaches could pull that off if they didn't have their star guy under center. As others have said, that's a much bigger deal than it gets credit for. I think it was Belichick who even said that will never happen again. 

 

And I also think part of the issue is that it's more difficult to conceptualize a collective team as a whole than it is an individual player who garners attention all by themself (conceptualize in terms of how the media and general sports public understand what "success" looks like). I don't know if people remember the stories about the week leading up to SB 26 where the media just wasn't too excited about Washington, that they weren't flashy and loud and so the Bills got most of the attention (I saw this on the 1991 video yearbook I believe, Charles Mann mentioned it). That was characteristic of the Gibbs teams–quiet, understated dominance yet dominance nonetheless. 

 

Informed people know it when they see it, but Gibbs's teams were integrated football machines, the whole greater than the sum of its parts. And that's why he's one of my favorite sports figures, ever–he understood teamwork in its most pure definition and expression. Seeing his teams operate at the peak of their game, especially on offense, was like witnessing a certain kind of sports-infused poetry in motion lol. And I say this as someone who only ever saw it on my dad's old VHS tapes and now on YouTube. 

Edited February 14 by sinews

[srtman04]

4 hours ago, justice98 said:

 

That just enhanced his legacy, rather than detract from it, IMO.  Admittedly, it wasn't the best version of him, as there were some game passing him by, Willie Mayes stumbling in the outfield moments.  But they had 9 coaches (not counting interims) since he retired the first time and only 1 could get this team to the playoffs more than once and it was him.  

 

Gibbs was the only one to ever win a playoff game during the Dan Synder cloud of **** era.   The man is just amazing,  truly up there with Vince Lombardi as one of the best coaches ever.  

[hail2skins]

4 hours ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

It's definitely a fact, that he doesn't get respect or praise whatsoever. Even from the older generation, who should remember him quite well. Whether it's Undisputed, First Take, First things First, sports radio, you name it. Whenever the topic is greatest head coaches or mount Rushmore or head coaches, they never and I mean NEVER mention the legendary, phenomenal Joe Gibbs.

There are a couple of links I posted on the second page of this thread that shows this statement is false.

 

12 minutes ago, srtman04 said:

 

Gibbs was the only one to ever win a playoff game during the Dan Synder cloud of **** era.   The man is just amazing,  truly up there with Vince Lombardi as one of the best coaches ever.  

Technically Norv also won a playoff game in Snyder's first season of ownership.

[srtman04]

3 minutes ago, hail2skins said:

Technically Norv also won a playoff game in Snyder's first season of ownership.

 

That doesn't count,  Synder had nothing to do with the '99 team structure....that was all pre-Synder.  

[Tyler Spiers]

39 minutes ago, srtman04 said:

 

That doesn't count,  Synder had nothing to do with the '99 team structure....that was all pre-Synder.  

And his first move was signing Jeff George when Brad Johnson just had a monster season with Norv's best team, which blew up the team and ran Johnson out of town where he went on to win a Super Bowl. Snyder was a complete fool.

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

1 hour ago, hail2skins said:

There are a couple of links I posted on the second page of this thread that shows this statement is false.

 

Technically Norv also won a playoff game in Snyder's first season of ownership.

You have links of SAS, Shannon Sharpe, Skip Bayless, and others from THOSE SHOWS, giving Joe Gibbs a bunch of praise and respect? You sure about that?