What’s The Reason Behind Gibbs Not Getting The Respect Other Great Coaches Get?

[No Nonsense]

9 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

So the premise of this is built around Keyshawn and Spears?  lol

Y’all making a big deal about that, they’re not the only ones who rarely bring up Gibbs. Someone just posted a video that didn’t include Keshawn or Spears, discussing the same thing and there was no mention of Gibbs. Yeah, Gibbs is always going to be on a ranking of greatest coaches of all time, but you get people on TV discussing it and it seems more often than not, Gibbs is ignored. 

Edited February 15, 2023 by No Nonsense

[tomwvr]

19 hours ago, Zim489 said:

The lack of a "run" hurts. They were never dominate over a 3-5 year period. 

Lol okay 1982 sb win 1983 sb loss 1984 11-5 record lost to bears in the play off 1985 10-6 not in playoffs 1986 lost nfc championship to ny 1987 sb win. 
 

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

5 hours ago, No Nonsense said:

Y’all making a big deal about that, they’re not the only ones who rarely bring up Gibbs. Someone just posted a video that didn’t include Keshawn or Spears, discussing the same thing and there was no mention of Gibbs. Yeah, Gibbs is always going to be on a ranking of greatest coaches of all time, but you get people on TV discussing it and it seems more often than not, Gibbs is ignored. 

Yeah, I mean he does get "respect" but when these things are discussed he really isn't getting put on any of the pundits Mt. Rushmores, which I think he should. He's more of an afterthought, also ran type in those discussions. Consensus would put Lombardi, BB, Landry, Shula, Walsh and Noll as the contenders, with those interested in history bringing up Halas and maybe Paul Brown.

 

The fact that we seem to starting down the road to consider Reid on that list before Gibbs is where I think we can discuss how Gibbs gets respect, but not the level of it he merits, imo. 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Rufus T Firefly

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

6 hours ago, Commander PK said:

 

and this is a great argument.  With proper sleep and less partying the 1983 team probably wins the Super Bowl.  Had they won that game, I think they would have be seen in the same light as the 1991 team.  They were just as dominant right up until the end, and set an NFL record at the time for points scored in a season.  

 

Strange, the lack of sleep didn't effect teams like the Raiders in 1976...or 1980...or 1983.😁

On 2/14/2023 at 2:09 PM, skinsfan66 said:

Should have never came back and teamed with Snyder.

 

I hate to say it, but I think this may have something to do with it. The ol' 'reverse car wash' syndrome in Washington...

22 hours ago, No Nonsense said:

Keshawn and Spears were on the panel. 

 

Keyshawn didn't even come into the league until 1996. And since when did Britney Spears know anything about football??

 

😆

[hail2skins]

List that takes into account Reid's win on Sunday. Has Gibbs 6th behind BB, Lombardi, Shula, Walsh, Brown.

 

https://athlonsports.com/nfl/25-greatest-head-coaches-nfl-history

[tomwvr]

43 minutes ago, hail2skins said:

List that takes into account Reid's win on Sunday. Has Gibbs 6th behind BB, Lombardi, Shula, Walsh, Brown.

 

https://athlonsports.com/nfl/25-greatest-head-coaches-nfl-history

Better than shula and brown . We can argue walsh, lombardi and belichick. Gibbs is on par with all Three of them

 

[Commander PK]

1 hour ago, hail2skins said:

List that takes into account Reid's win on Sunday. Has Gibbs 6th behind BB, Lombardi, Shula, Walsh, Brown.

 

https://athlonsports.com/nfl/25-greatest-head-coaches-nfl-history

 

41 minutes ago, tomwvr said:

Better than shula and brown . We can argue walsh, lombardi and belichick. Gibbs is on par with all Three of them

 

 

To be honest this is probably one of the better more reasonable lists I have seen.  I don't sense deliberate disrespect here.  I know I'm a homer, but I just don't see how you can argue against Gibbs 3 Championships with no HOF QB.  To me that fact alone puts him on top, because nobody else has or will be able to achieve that...no way.  Will not happen in the modern NFL.  Look at Bellichik without Brady.  Walsh had Montana.  Lombardi had Bart Starr.  Gibbs had average to above average in Theismann, but none of them were world beaters and he and his staff got the best out of them when it counted most.

 

Note that both George Allen and Ray Flaherty are also on this list so props to the writer for that one.  He did his homework.

[Rufus T Firefly]

24 minutes ago, Commander PK said:

 

 

To be honest this is probably one of the better more reasonable lists I have seen.  I don't sense deliberate disrespect here.  I know I'm a homer, but I just don't see how you can argue against Gibbs 3 Championships with no HOF QB.  To me that fact alone puts him on top, because nobody else has or will be able to achieve that...no way.  Will not happen in the modern NFL.  Look at Bellichik without Brady.  Walsh had Montana.  Lombardi had Bart Starr.  Gibbs had average to above average in Theismann, but none of them were world beaters and he and his staff got the best out of them when it counted most.

 

Note that both George Allen and Ray Flaherty are also on this list so props to the writer for that one.  He did his homework.

Agree all around. Decent list. 

 

Walsh deserves credit for designing an offense that changed the league for many years to come. Other than that, there really isn't a reason to rank him above Gibbs. Gibbs has more Ws, better win pct, same number of titles, 1 more SB appearance. And he did it without Joe Montana. 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Rufus T Firefly

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

2 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Agree all around. Decent list. 

 

Walsh deserves credit for designing an offense that changed the league for many years to come. Other than that, there really isn't a reason to rank him above Gibbs. Gibbs has more Ws, better win pct, same number of titles, 1 more SB appearance. And he did it without Joe Montana. 

 

 

Maybe it's because it's perceived that Gibbs won all 3 against inferior opponents in the Fins, Donkos, and Bills during the NFCs 13 year run as the superior conference. Walsh had to beat teams that were close to being peers of his 49ers. I don't necessarily agree with all this, BTW.

 

There was no way David Woodley was going to win  a Superbowl, and Elway and Kelly never played well against NFC teams during those years...heck, no AFC teams did!

Edited February 16, 2023 by BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen

[Rufus T Firefly]

9 minutes ago, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

 

Maybe it's because it's perceived that Gibbs won all 3 against inferior opponents in the Fins, Donkos, and Bills during the NFCs 13 year run as the superior conference. Walsh had to beat teams that were close to being peers of his 49ers. I don't necessarily agree with all this, BTW.

 

There was no way David Woodley was going to win  a Superbowl, and Elway and Kelly never played well against NFC teams during those years...heck, no AFC teams did!

That would be a stupid reason. That's one more HOF Fame QB than Walsh beat. Hell, probably the same number Belichick did, unless Matt Ryan gets in. And I'd take Elway and Kelly over Warner and Wilson anyway.

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

12 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

That would be a stupid reason. That's one more HOF Fame QB than Walsh beat. Hell, probably the same number Belichick did, unless Matt Ryan gets in. And I'd take Elway and Kelly over Warner and Wilson anyway.

 

I agree completely. After all, Gibbs could have LOST those games to QBs like Woodley, etc. I've only heard 2 people actually say this about Gibbs in the first place, and neither one of them was in sports media. It's kind of like the people who say the 1972 Dolphins team that went 17-0 wasn't that good because their division stunk that year and they had an easy schedule...doesn't matter, they still had to WIN those games.

 

On losing to the Raiders in '83...I would say the Raiders were the most NFC-like AFC team during that NFC run from 1981 to 1996. They were the only AFC team to win the Superb Owl during that time, and both were blowouts over teams who were favored to beat them. And yet Flores and Plunkett are still not in the HoF...

[Rufus T Firefly]

8 hours ago, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

 

I agree completely. After all, Gibbs could have LOST those games to QBs like Woodley, etc. I've only heard 2 people actually say this about Gibbs in the first place, and neither one of them was in sports media. It's kind of like the people who say the 1972 Dolphins team that went 17-0 wasn't that good because their division stunk that year and they had an easy schedule...doesn't matter, they still had to WIN those games.

 

On losing to the Raiders in '83...I would say the Raiders were the most NFC-like AFC team during that NFC run from 1981 to 1996. They were the only AFC team to win the Superb Owl during that time, and both were blowouts over teams who were favored to beat them. And yet Flores and Plunkett are still not in the HoF...

Flores got in a couple of years ago. 

 

Plunkett doesn't belong in the Hall. Nice career, interesting ups and downs, not Hall worthy.

[Riggo-toni]

On 2/15/2023 at 10:33 AM, No Nonsense said:

I have a feeling most would consider Parcells a better coach even though Gibbs has one more Super Bowl than both and he didn’t have a hall of fame QB. 

Parcells never had a HoF QB, but he only had one winning season his entire career without Belichik as his DC.  I think Belichik's mega success afterwards may have (and should) remove some of the Parcells mystique.

Gibbs downfall in his second stint here was getting full control over personnel, something that for all his greatness, he frankly wasn't very good at. The only good acquisitions were on the defensive side were he deferred to Williams. The only offensive draft pick who wasn't a bust was Cooley.  Whereas Beathard looked for gems in obscure colleges, a trick he learned as a scout with KC, Gibbs was enamored with players from championship teams, which led to weak FA signings like Patten, and drafting Rogers and Campbell from Auburn.

Too bad Snyder was too much of a dickhead to hire Beathard in 2002 when he wanted to return and brought back Vinny Bugeyes instead.

[hail2skins]

Somewhat off topic but I was looking at one of those "free libraries" where you can take a book from the box and saw "Fourth and One" that Gibbs wrote with Jerry Jenkins. It was published in 1991, before the Super Bowl season.

 

I had no idea that Gibbs struggled with a real estate investment that went really bad in the early-to-mid 1980s. The book is not intended to focus solely on football, more on life's lessons, but it did cover his football career with somewhat of a broad brush. But there was some sloppy editing, for example indicating that the team ran the table in the 1984 regular season after losing the first two games before correctly indicating they finished 11-5.

24 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

but Parcells only had one winning season his entire career without Belichik as his DCd.

Bill had three winning seasons in Dallas without Belichick.

Edited February 18, 2023 by hail2skins

[No Nonsense]

1 hour ago, Riggo-toni said:

Parcells never had a HoF QB.

I thought Simms was a hall of famer. But I think it’s fair to say that if he starts and wins Super Bowl 25, he’d be a hall of famer. Maybe we could say the same thing about Theisman in Super Bowl 18. 

[Riggo-toni]

1 hour ago, No Nonsense said:

 Maybe we could say the same thing about Theisman in Super Bowl 18. 

Theismann won a SB AND a league MVP and the 83 team broke the season scoring record. The SB18 embarrassment is why he isn't in the HoF.  I think even if SF had managed to edge us out in 83 NFCC game, as they almost did, Joe would have had a better chance for a yellow jacket. If we had actually won SB18, well then he would have been a first ballot HoFer.

[skins island connection]

 

There's no question Gibbs is one of the greatest coaches of all time, and IMO should be at least in top 3.

What seems to attract attention, good or bad, is attitude. We never saw Gibbs throwing a fit on the sidelines, blasting refs in post-game interviews, grabbing players by the facemask and yelling at them.

No. 

BUT, keep in mind, this is the Washington REDSKINS we're talking about, and along with the name comes the scrutiny of negativity, racism, PC culture wars etc. I'm not saying that Gibbs in any way was even remotely aligned with these things but the public, in all their ignorance, is. The Bill Walshs', Parcells, and others had the media giving them all the glory they wanted, and their shiny toys like Montana was idolized in households across America.

Lets face it; because Gibbs wasn't more outspoken, more emotional on the sidelines is why people don't think about him, and it sucks. his accomplishments mirror no one, no coach has done what he's done.

Even "Th' Hogs" didn't get the respect they deserved. In 82' they were the biggest, heaviest and most athletic line in the league; in 91' they were the 3rd LIGHTEST line in the league, and thats a direct reflection on Gibbs as well as the o-line coach; the mentality, players willing to run through brick walls for them speaks volume, but regardless of all of it, the cloud of a racist name { in their words } did alot of unseen damage, and weak claims of easy schedule and off-years for other teams just added fuel.

 

But WE know how wonderful a coach Gibbs was/is, and in the end its America's loss when his name isn't mentioned as one of if not the greatest to ever walk a sideline...

[SkinsFTW]

On 2/16/2023 at 9:41 AM, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

Superb Owl 

[SkinsFTW]

 

 

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that even though the 1982 team won during a strike shortened season they had the best record in the NFL, had no bye like teams get now, and won 3 playoff games and then won the Super Bowl. 4 post season wins. Their playoff wins were by a combined score of 83-31 and the won the SB by 10 points even though the Dolphins had a kickoff return TD. They basically blew everybody out once the playoffs started. 

[hail2skins]

1 hour ago, skins island connection said:

But WE know how wonderful a coach Gibbs was/is, and in the end its America's loss when his name isn't mentioned as one of if not the greatest to ever walk a sideline...

Here's a list which puts him at #4......Rushmore baby!

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/top-nfl-head-coaches-all-time/

 

I think pretty much every list of "best NFL coaches of all time" includes Joe in the top 10, so I think the whole "Gibbs is disrespected" is a bit overblown.  And you have to recognize how these lists work. Of course they are going to throw a bone to old timers like Lombardi, Brown, and Halas, even though it was easier to win in those days due to less competition. Shula will be included because he has the most wins and the only perfect season in the modern era. And of course Belichick with the six rings in the salary cap era, even though its more apparent as time goes on that Brady was the big reason behind them. The one most comparable to Joe is Bill Walsh, and I do think Joe should get the edge there because of winning with three different QBs.

1 hour ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

 

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that even though the 1982 team won during a strike shortened season they had the best record in the NFL, had no bye like teams get now, and won 3 playoff games and then won the Super Bowl. 4 post season wins. Their playoff wins were by a combined score of 83-31 and the won the SB by 10 points even though the Dolphins had a kickoff return TD. They basically blew everybody out once the playoffs started. 

The 1982 team had a lot of close games in the regular season, but really hit its stride in the postseason. To me that's most evident by the 1983 team, which could score at will and had a great run defense. If Jeris White and Tony Peters from the 82 secondary had played in 1983, I think the 1983 team goes undefeated......although no telling if it would've prevented Black Sunday in Tampa against the Raiders.

[Renegade7]

No doubt in my mind Gibbs took a reputation hit by coming back under Snyder.

 

Another thing I think hurts him is he's not in the conversation of All-Time HC/QB pairings (like Walsh and Montana) nor had success on multiple franchises (like Reid).

 

That doesn't mean he's not respected, just impacts his ranking and publicity in All-Time conversations.

[MartinC]

On 2/15/2023 at 1:01 PM, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

 

Strange, the lack of sleep didn't effect teams like the Raiders in 1976...or 1980...or 1983.😁

😆

Cocaine and steroids is a hell of a combination. Allegedly.

14 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

 

Another thing I think hurts him is he's not in the conversation of All-Time HC/QB pairings (like Walsh and Montana) nor had success on multiple franchises (like Reid).

That should help him, not hurt him.

 

He won Super Bowls with Joe Thiesmann, Doug Williams and Mark Rypien. Joe was the best of the three but none of them are in the conversation for all time greats. Winning with three different and no better than good QBs should cement just how good a coach Gibbs was.

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

I also have to wonder if Gibbs' continuing defense of Snyder as a "good guy" is part of it. Snyder clearly kisses up to Gibbs since he's a jock-sniffer, so Gibbs either doesn't see how Snyder treats other humans (which is understandable, but not excusable) or doesn't care (which is NOT excusable).

 

Now if Gibbs were to come out and say Snyder is the scum of the earth, I bet some people would pay more attention to his legacy.

 

This is also unfair, but I think the media also ignores Gibbs due to his fervent religious beliefs. I certainly can't prove that, though...but you have to wonder when you consider how the media just absolutely fawned over ex-coaches like Walsh and Madden, neither of whom ever brought up God in their interviews unlike Gibbs.

[NoCalMike]

I think one thing that hurts Gibbs in the legacy sense is that the 49ers run with Walsh/Montana tends to dominate the talk of that era because of the 4 superbowl wins.   I think Washington might have been more consistent in winning seasons during that time (I could be wrong) but because the 49ers were able to win 3 super bowls (and technically even though the 4th & 5th superbowl was under George Siefert, Walsh is still getting most of the credit, just like Jimmy Johnson/Barry Switzer sitation) 

 

Also maybe because Washington's superbowl wins were more spread out, they have less of an argument of that signature dominate run.  Losing the superbowl to the Raiders that would have given them back to back championships, something that still to do this day is very uncommon, might have change the narrative. I remember being a kid in the pre-internet era, a lot of my "research" was done at sports memorabilia shops and it always bothered me that the 49ers were on the "Team of the 80's" poster and not Washington.

 

I still feel Gibbs should be at least considered Top 5 all time (personal bias says at least Top 3). 

Edited February 27, 2023 by NoCalMike

[PleaseBlitz]

I think Gibbs' second run hurts his legacy.   I also agree with many others that he isn't really connected with a dynasty, in the sense that he didn't win his 3 SBs with one core group of guys that are extremely memorable, although I would argue that makes his achievements more impressive, not less. 

 

Bonus nugget:  People tend to mention the same 6 or 7 coaches (in whatever order, Shula, Belicheck, Noll, Landry, Walsh, Lombardi), I think John Madden doesn't get enough respect, mostly because his broadcasting career overshadowed it.  But he has the second higher winning percentage of all time, more wins than Lombardi and Walsh, zero losing seasons and one SB win.