Election 2024 & Presidential Cage Match: Dark Brandon 46 vs Felonious Farty 45

[Renegade7]

4 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

He's top 15. That's better than mediocre unless more than half have been ****. 

 

Top 15?. Based on what accomplishments?

 

He was reasonable when he needed to be, but once he lost control of Congress he basically became a lame duck following ACA passing. 

 

Here we are 10 years later and the public option be agreed to take out was used by his VP to beat off the MFA convo and hasn't come up once since he was elected.

 

Outside helping to stabilize the economy following great recession, I cannot think of any major accomplishments.  Getting out of Iraq and killing Bin Laden? I agreed with his handling of Syria even though it backfired, Sudan is now two hell holes instead of one, don't even want to start on Lybia. He also doubled down on PRISM and predatory drone strikes while in office.

 

I look at him being mediocre as an overall grade, not where he ranks among other presidents.  I've wanted to call him at least good for a while now, he's definitely not great.  By time be really looked like he knew what he was doing he was in his way out the door and had been lost the ability to get any major legislation out of Congress.

[The Evil Genius]

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Top 15?. Based on what accomplishments?

 

He was reasonable when he needed to be, but once he lost control of Congress he basically became a lame duck following ACA passing. 

 

Here we are 10 years later and the public option be agreed to take out was used by his VP to beat off the MFA convo and hasn't come up once since he was elected.

 

Outside helping to stabilize the economy following great recession, I cannot think of any major accomplishments.  Getting out of Iraq and killing Bin Laden? I agreed with his handling of Syria even though it backfired, Sudan is now two hell holes instead of one, don't even want to start on Lybia. He also doubled down on PRISM and predatory drone strikes while in office.

 

I look at him being mediocre as an overall grade, not where he ranks among other presidents.  I've wanted to call him at least good for a while now, he's definitely not great.  By time be really looked like he knew what he was doing he was in his way out the door and had been lost the ability to get any major legislation out of Congress.

 

I don't know..maybe getting Sotomayor and Kagan on Scotus. Or ACA, repealing Don't Ask Don't Tell, signing Dodds-Frank Wall Street Reform, ARRA 2009 and the Auto Industry Bailout, signing the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, agreeing to the Paris Climate Change Agreement in 2015..there are many more I am sure. 

 

[PleaseBlitz]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

Top 15?. Based on what accomplishments?

 

He was reasonable when he needed to be, but once he lost control of Congress he basically became a lame duck following ACA passing. 

 

This is a pretty common occurrence among Presidents and wouldn't knock him out of Top 15 consideration.  

 

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Here we are 10 years later and the public option be agreed to take out was used by his VP to beat off the MFA convo and hasn't come up once since he was elected.

 

A lot of people don't want MFA, so this seems like a feature, not a bug. 

 

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Outside helping to stabilize the economy following great recession, I cannot think of any major accomplishments.  Getting out of Iraq and killing Bin Laden? I agreed with his handling of Syria even though it backfired, Sudan is now two hell holes instead of one, don't even want to start on Lybia. He also doubled down on PRISM and predatory drone strikes while in office.

 

 

Off the top of my head:

 

Dodd Frank was a huge one that most people don't understand how thoroughly it has impacted their life, and I wouldn't characterize it as helping to stabilize the economy following the great recession, I'd characterize it as helping to stabilize the economy long term, since many of its provisions were implemented after the economy had already rebounded (and some continue to be enacted today, some 15 years later).  

 

Obviously the ACA.

 

The Iran nuclear deal (scrapped by Trump solely because it was an Obama accomplishment).

 

The Paris climate accords (scrapped by Trump solely because it was an Obama accomplishment).

 

Arguably saved American automaking.

 

Jettisoned the Defense of Marriage Act (allowing federal recognition of same sex marriages)

 

Had a Presidency free of major scandals, which is extremely rare. 

 

 

 

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

I have Obama ranked at #16.

[Renegade7]

6 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

I don't know..maybe getting Sotomayor and Kagan on Scotus. Or ACA, repealing Don't Ask Don't Tell, signing Dodds-Frank Wall Street Reform, ARRA 2009 and the Auto Industry Bailout, signing the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, agreeing to the Paris Climate Change Agreement in 2015..there are many more I am sure. 

 

 

I tried to give him credit for ACA in my post, but filling Supreme Court seats are considered major accomplishments now? Is that because Trump seated 3 (like that's normal in one term)?

 

The Paris Climate accord has accomplished nothing, it was hotter this winter in the southern hemisphere then it typically is down there during Summer. 

 

Pretty much everything else you mentioned outside the auto bailout barely impacts my everyday life when I needed it most coming our great recession.  His bigger accomplishment was getting our global respect backs which we quickly threw away the second Trump got elected.

[PleaseBlitz]

Just now, TradeTheBeal! said:

I have Obama ranked at #16.

 

We are all aware of your irrational love of William McKinley. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

3 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

We are all aware of your irrational love of William McKinley. 

Look at this magnificent SOB!

 

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by TradeTheBeal!

[tshile]

I’m also reluctant to give a president credit for signing a bill. It’s one thing if they lead the charge on it, but most of the time they’re just uttering talking points and signing it when it’s passed. 
 

Some other things are odd like bailouts - seems to be the norm, nothing really special about it. 
 

I also laugh at things like picking a female to do something. Or the idea that he hurt Hillary’s chances were hurt because being “the first” wasn’t novel anymore. The people that cry about racism and sexism the most love to use race and gender to dictate things when it suits them 😂 
 

I’m not interesting in ranking him cause I don’t know all our presidents well enough, and generally I refer to Obama as a “good” president. And in my opinion it’s really hard to grade a person that has congress literally refusing to do its job, just to sabotage things so they can blame the president in the next election… anyways. Just commenting on some of the stuff I see. Some of seems to fall under the category of him just being the person that signed the bill at the time, and any other president would have done the same. 🤷‍♂️ 

[Larry]

9 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

The Iran nuclear deal (scrapped by Trump solely because it was an Obama accomplishment).

 

Wanted to highlight this one. 

 

He literally negotiated a country that absolutely loathes us, into halting a nuclear weapons program which appeared to be on the brink of succeeding. Without any conflict. In exchange for simply lifting the sanctions (which he also negotiated a bunch of countries that don't like us, into going along with.)

[Renegade7]

@PleaseBlitz

 

You make some good points, Iran Deal I'm songorn in because of how easy it was for the next President to destroy it.  I thought it was an awesome idea at the time, as was stuxnet that helped lead to it.

 

Accomplishments that can that be quickly undone by the next POTUS, like an executive order, it's hard for me to consider that an accomplishment.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Renegade7

[The Evil Genius]

I'm no scholar, but the most recent one (Sienna 2022) I found has him 11th. 

 

FDR, Lincoln, GW, Teddy Roosevelt, TJ, Ike, Truman, LBJ, JFK, and James Madison are their top 10. 

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

In surveys / rankings of political scholars, Obama generally ranks well. I’d estimate that he averages about 12th.

[tshile]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Accomplishments that can that be quickly undone by the next POTUS, like an executive order, it's hard for me to consider that an accomplishment.

Yeah… I think you and I are mostly on the same page about this, even though I’m sure we could find individual things to disagree with. 
 

the over embellishment of an accomplishment irks me. Bidens done a lot of that. Him and his team have used natural recovery numbers to boast about how good he is for the economy. They’ve used sending a check every month to claim they lifted children out of poverty when anyone with a brain understands nothing structurally changed. 
 

it also forces real accomplishments to be covered up. It took guts for Obama to order the operation against bin Ladin - Biden is on the record as being against it at the time.  Biden has don’t a lot to rebuild agencies and foreign relations that Trump ruined, and it’s never really talked about, and I think it’s incredibly important. 
 

the sad part is they do all this because the average person is not smart enough to see through it or care about the right things 

[PleaseBlitz]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

@PleaseBlitz

 

You make some good points, Iran Deal I'm songorn in because of how easy it was for the next President to destroy it.  I thought it was an awesome idea at the time, as was student that helped lead to it.

 

Accomplishments that can that be quickly undone by the next POTUS, like an executive order, it's hard for me to consider that an accomplishment.

 

Fair enough.  I'll just note that Obama is uniquely situated among Presidents insofar as he's the only one where the next guy came in and undid his accomplishments only because the next guy didn't like him personally (largely because Obama was more popular than him and he's a narcissist). 

[tshile]

Just now, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Fair enough.  I'll just note that Obama is uniquely situated among Presidents insofar as he's the only one where the next guy came in and undid his accomplishments only because the next guy didn't like him personally (largely because Obama was more popular than him and he's a narcissist). 

And because Obama clowned him at the correspondents dinner. 
 

 

[Renegade7]

9 minutes ago, tshile said:

And because Obama clowned him at the correspondents dinner. 
 

 

 

That **** is cringeworthy to watch now in context to where we are now...i thought it was funny then, a lot of people did, ain't funny now...

[88Comrade2000]

How about this. Biden makes a secret deal with Kamala. He let’s her pick 2nd term cabinet because in reality Joe will retire in 2025. He will do whatever he wants to finish up in 25 and then hand it over to Kamala.

[LadySkinsFan]

Biden should appoint Pete as Secretary of Defense in 2025.  Give him more expansive experience.

[bearrock]

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

I love Obama, but he was a mediocre president that set the stage for our country not electing someone because it would be a first for us anymore (it diluted Hillary being first women president being enough to beat Trump).

 

To be fair, that's a pretty bad reason to elect someone.  Hillary Clinton should've been elected because she would've done a good job as POTUS and the other guy was a whacko. 

 

It's also harder to have historically recognized accomplishments without war or cataclysmic event.  And ACA scraped by the skin of it's teeth.  Public option would've sent many moderate Dems running for the hills.  It's also stunning how short a memory people have on the financial meltdown of 2007-08.  Is Obama solely responsible for the recovery?  Of course not, but no POTUS ever does it alone.  I have my gripes with the US monetary policy being in the hands of Goldman Sachs, but let's not pretend any president would have been fine and America would've recovered as it did in the 2010's under anyone (or why do we laud FDR?).  

[Captain Wiggles]

Obama was the first great president since Truman. ✌️😝✌️

[EmirOfShmo]

2 hours ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

I don't know..maybe getting Sotomayor and Kagan on Scotus. Or ACA, repealing Don't Ask Don't Tell, signing Dodds-Frank Wall Street Reform, ARRA 2009 and the Auto Industry Bailout, signing the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, agreeing to the Paris Climate Change Agreement in 2015..there are many more I am sure. 

 

FSMA - Food Safety Modernization Act 2011 - huge overhaul of rules/laws governing all things food. First major changes to food safety since the 1930s. 

[Renegade7]

34 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

To be fair, that's a pretty bad reason to elect someone.  Hillary Clinton should've been elected because she would've done a good job as POTUS and the other guy was a whacko.

 

I'll take it further in agreement with you, it's necessary as a country to get past the "firsts" as mixed up as we are and focus on what they're going to do once elected. 

 

For a melting pot, it's kinda embarrassing how many first we have left to go.  But that shouldn't be the reason why we elect people. 

[Fan since a Fetus]

4 hours ago, @DCGoldPants said:

 

It's not. He's been running his grift now for years. But we're obsessed with bothsidesism and need to find Dems who want to talk about running against Biden. 

“Not that I condone bothsidesism, or any -ism for that matter. -Ism's in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me." Good point there. After all, he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people.”

All I got out of this is “bum rides” and I’m suddenly so excited!
 

Also, I believe in Exercism! The demons have to continuously exercise to stay healthy and take on the guns, god and gloryhole people. The demons shall not be repossessed! They should never have their possession taken away from them in the first place! 
 

so harbor your demons and let freedom ring!!! All you can eat shrimp at happy hour! But, it’s made in China. 

[Fan since a Fetus]

Knowing that Obama is still president right now, where would you rank him? We all know Biden was president during the Summer of 2020, but we have come to learn that Obama is president now. Being on he has done well more than 8 years, how does this tricky ****er rank? 
 

Also, is Obama just wearing a Biden skin? That’s tricky as well and could bite him in the butt if people find out.  A lot of people don’t like white face. I may or may not be offended depending on if I get free medications in the future. If I do, I’ll accept white face. He’ll have my vote! Better than mango face. 
 

Booooo mango face!

Edited November 15, 2023 by Fan since a Fetus

[Cooked Crack]