The (New) Offensive Line Thread

[KillBill26]

Free agent Isaac Seumalo would be a great addition for us at RG.  He has had a very good year with the eagles after being oft injured the previous two years.  Was named as a pro bowl alternate, and is a coach's son known for his knowledge of the game.  Works hard and is humble.  

 

The Eagles also have a lot of hard decisions to make this off-season.  Overthecap has them currently at 4.6 mil in cap space, which might not even be enough to pay their rookies.   Cox, hargrave, bradberry,  Quinn all have expiring contracts among others.  They have already invested a lot in fellow OL Johnson, Kelce, and mailata.  I know the eagles respect Seumalo, but they may have no choice but to let him walk.  

 

Spotrac has his market value at 12 per.  Maybe we could get him at a lower aav with a longer deal?  4-5 years?

 

With C and RT needing upgrades, having a solid RG who is a leader between them would be huge.  

[Est.1974]

Not a big fan of the current batch of impending OL free agents. Hopefully a number of players unexpectedly hit the market via cap cuts etc.

[Ball Security]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

Not a big fan of the current batch of impending OL free agents. Hopefully a number of players unexpectedly hit the market via cap cuts etc.

Guys I have read that could potentially be cut: Shaq Mason, Taylor Lewan, Mitch Morse, David Bakhtiari, and Pat Elfein.

[Est.1974]

Orlando Brown Jr is a wildcard for me, but it’s very questionable that he is worthy of the money he wants.

[markmills67]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

Orlando Brown Jr is a wildcard for me, but it’s very questionable that he is worthy of the money he wants.

If Snyder is still the owner I can't see any Big Free Agent signings. 

[Warhead36]

5 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Orlando Brown Jr is a wildcard for me, but it’s very questionable that he is worthy of the money he wants.

My Chiefs fan friend told me he's been mostly dog doo doo this year. Wouldn't be worth the money at all. 

 

I like Kaleb McGary from the Falcons.

[KillBill26]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

My Chiefs fan friend told me he's been mostly dog doo doo this year. Wouldn't be worth the money at all. 

 

I like Kaleb McGary from the Falcons.

I think we'd have buyers remorse with either McGary or brown.  For the amount we would pay (top dollar) we would get frustrated with their struggles.  McGary catches flak from Atlanta fans for struggling with elite pass rushers. For the big contract he gets, that will get old quick.  

 

I'd rather target seumalo at RG and RT would be Cosmi/draft pick/Lucas.

Edited January 22, 2023 by KillBill26

[method man]

13 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

I think we'd have buyers remorse with either McGary or brown.  For the amount we would pay (top dollar) we would get frustrated with their struggles.  McGary catches flak from Atlanta fans for struggling with elite pass rushers. For the big contract he gets, that will get old quick.  

 

I'd rather target seumalo at RG and RT would be Cosmi/draft pick/Lucas.

Yep. McGeary’s pass pro deficiencies are being masked this year by the Falcons’ high volume run scheme. Andre Dillard is going to be the best value solution we can sign. Can start at either tackle or guard 

[Warhead36]

Well OTs who are great in run and pass protection are never going to enter the open market. But I do agree that's the general problem with Free Agency in general: you're often paying a premium for "proven" but flawed players((I say proven because often times they end up sucking anyway, see William Jackson).

 

The truth is Free Agency is often just as big a crapshoot as the Draft but more expensive. 

[Going Commando]

12 hours ago, method man said:

Yep. McGeary’s pass pro deficiencies are being masked this year by the Falcons’ high volume run scheme. Andre Dillard is going to be the best value solution we can sign. Can start at either tackle or guard 

Yeah I think that's fair.  McGary is basically dominant at one thing--outside zone run blocking, and mediocre at best in all of the other aspects of the position.  Because he's so limited, for a team to get their money's worth with him, they are going to have to play him the same way the Falcons do.  I think it could work depending on which OC we hire and what run game he implements, because we do have other OLs and the RBs to run an outside zone heavy scheme.  But we'd have to go into that kind of contract with our eyes open to the reality that McGary's pass pro kinda sucks.

 

I think he's probably a moot point for us though, because everyone is saying that the timing of the sale is going to make it so we can give out any big signing bonuses.  I think we're probably going to franchise Daron Payne and then go digging through the bargain bin this offseason and then wait until the new owners come in and take over the team.

 

Dillard is interesting to me because I liked him in his draft year.  There's no shame in losing out to Mailata in a depth chart battle, but it is a little concerning that he wasn't the top back up over Jack Driscoll this year.  How come he didn't play when Lane Johnson missed time?

[mhd24]

57 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Yeah I think that's fair.  McGary is basically dominant at one thing--outside zone run blocking, and mediocre at best in all of the other aspects of the position.  Because he's so limited, for a team to get their money's worth with him, they are going to have to play him the same way the Falcons do.  I think it could work depending on which OC we hire and what run game he implements, because we do have other OLs and the RBs to run an outside zone heavy scheme.  But we'd have to go into that kind of contract with our eyes open to the reality that McGary's pass pro kinda sucks.

 

I think he's probably a moot point for us though, because everyone is saying that the timing of the sale is going to make it so we can give out any big signing bonuses.  I think we're probably going to franchise Daron Payne and then go digging through the bargain bin this offseason and then wait until the new owners come in and take over the team.

 

Dillard is interesting to me because I liked him in his draft year.  There's no shame in losing out to Mailata in a depth chart battle, but it is a little concerning that he wasn't the top back up over Jack Driscoll this year.  How come he didn't play when Lane Johnson missed time?

 

Yeah, unless it is a Flowers type situations (where someone just needs to be on a new team in order to be competent), I don't see him as viable. 

[method man]

On 1/22/2023 at 10:40 AM, Going Commando said:

Yeah I think that's fair.  McGary is basically dominant at one thing--outside zone run blocking, and mediocre at best in all of the other aspects of the position.  Because he's so limited, for a team to get their money's worth with him, they are going to have to play him the same way the Falcons do.  I think it could work depending on which OC we hire and what run game he implements, because we do have other OLs and the RBs to run an outside zone heavy scheme.  But we'd have to go into that kind of contract with our eyes open to the reality that McGary's pass pro kinda sucks.

 

I think he's probably a moot point for us though, because everyone is saying that the timing of the sale is going to make it so we can give out any big signing bonuses.  I think we're probably going to franchise Daron Payne and then go digging through the bargain bin this offseason and then wait until the new owners come in and take over the team.

 

Dillard is interesting to me because I liked him in his draft year.  There's no shame in losing out to Mailata in a depth chart battle, but it is a little concerning that he wasn't the top back up over Jack Driscoll this year.  How come he didn't play when Lane Johnson missed time?

I believe Dillard played some guard this year. Did that overlap w Johnson missing time?

[markmills67]

On 1/21/2023 at 7:26 PM, Est.1974 said:

Orlando Brown Jr is a wildcard for me, but it’s very questionable that he is worthy of the money he wants.

If Snyder is still the owner I can't see any Big Free Agent signings. 

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

If Snyder is still the owner I can't see any Big Free Agent signings. 

Not sure. Re Orlando Brown in particular I’m not really advocating we go for him.

 

One thing does seem certain, we need a significant upgrade job doing across the OL in the offseason. Got to expect a couple of draft picks going in that direction.

[lavar1156]

Does Nate Davis from the TItans make sense? Played with Jon Allen in HS.

[method man]

14 hours ago, lavar1156 said:

Does Nate Davis from the TItans make sense? Played with Jon Allen in HS.

 

Seems like an average guard starter. It's guys like this that tend to get overpaid in FA (unless the FO believes that there is more to unlock with him and he has Pro Bowl upside). The secret to FA is finding a bunch of hidden gems like this FO did in 2020,signing older guys to shorter term deals with less than usual guaranteed money or paying up for the younger elite player that rarely hits FA unencumbered by a franchise tag.

Edited January 25, 2023 by method man

[HigSkin]

 

[MrJL]

does Norwell play both guard positions, so if he loses the starting job he could back up both?

[Wyvern]

I think the only thing Chris Paul did was to make the case for getting more looks in the upcoming season for consideration of some kind of role with the offensive line.  Looking at the game as a whole, Paul had lots of instances where he didn't do very well.  There were a few promising moments, but he also benefited by (a) being an unknown entity at guard with very little film on him, and (b) a game plan that was very heavy on the run.  (I wasn't as impressed with Paul's performances when called upon to pass block.)

 

That said, Paul also might have had 1st game jitters as well as being still new to how the Washington O-line has to adjust as well as the speed of the game under live conditions.  And if the reports of him being a good learner, and making progress growing into his role are true ... then he might be ready to compete for the starting role in the upcoming preseason.

 

I don't see Washington cutting Norwell next season, unless his skills have eroded even more.  That means he probably keeps the LG role, unless they want an expensive backup.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Wyvern

[method man]

32 minutes ago, Wyvern said:

I think the only thing Chris Paul did was to make the case for getting more looks in the upcoming season for consideration of some kind of role with the offensive line.  Looking at the game as a whole, Paul had lots of instances where he didn't do very well.  There were a few promising moments, but he also benefited by (a) being an unknown entity at guard with very little film on him, and (b) a game plan that was very heavy on the run.  (I wasn't as impressed with Paul's performances when called upon to pass block.)

 

That said, Paul also might have had 1st game jitters as well as being still new to how the Washington O-line has to adjust as well as the speed of the game under live conditions.  And if the reports of him being a good learner, and making progress growing into his role are true ... then he might be ready to compete for the starting role in the upcoming preseason.

 

I don't see Washington cutting Norwell next season, unless his skills have eroded even more.  That means he probably keeps the LG role, unless they want an expensive backup.

I think they should groom Paul as a utility backup and hope he is learning to play center too. He certainly has the brains for it

[Stoox]

On 1/21/2023 at 10:35 PM, Warhead36 said:

Well OTs who are great in run and pass protection are never going to enter the open market. But I do agree that's the general problem with Free Agency in general: you're often paying a premium for "proven" but flawed players((I say proven because often times they end up sucking anyway, see William Jackson).

 

The truth is Free Agency is often just as big a crapshoot as the Draft but more expensive. 

 

This. A thousand times this. Getting a complete & healthy player who fits the scheme at a number that fits the cap is very hard.

[Koolblue13]

McGary RT Falcons $13m

OG NATE DAVIS, TENNESSEE TITANS

Contract Projection: Three years, $21 million ($7M per year); $14.25 million total guaranteed

 

OT ISAIAH WYNN, NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS

Contract Projection: Two years, $21 million ($10.5M per year); $13.75 million total guaranteed

 

 

C ETHAN POCIC, CLEVELAND BROWNS

Contract Projection: Three years, $21 million ($7M per year); $11 million total guaranteed

 

OT KELVIN BEACHUM, ARIZONA CARDINALS

Contract Projection: Two years, $3 million ($1.5M per year); $2 million total guaranteed

 

C CONNOR MCGOVERN, NEW YORK JETS

Contract Projection: Three years, $22.5 million ($7.5M per year); $12.5 million total guaranteed

 

OT JERMAINE ELUEMUNOR, LAS VEGAS RAIDERS

Contract Projection: Two years, $7.5 million ($3.75M per year); $4 million total guaranteed

 

OG WILL HERNANDEZ, ARIZONA CARDINALS

Contract Projection: Three years, $12 million ($4M per year); $6.25 million total guaranteed

 

OT CAMERON FLEMING, DENVER BRONCOS

Contract Projection: Two years, $5 million ($2.5M per year); $2.75 million total guaranteed

 

 C GARRETT BRADBURY, MINNESOTA VIKINGS

Contract Projection: Three years, $18.75 million ($6.25M per year); $10 million total guaranteed

 

OT GEORGE FANT, NEW YORK JETS

Contract Projection: Two years, $11 million ($5.5M per year); $7.25 million total guaranteed

 

OT ORLANDO BROWN JR., KANSAS CITY CHIEFS

Contract Projection: Five years, $105 million ($21M per year); $70 million total guaranteed

 

OT MIKE MCGLINCHEY, SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS

Contract Projection: Four years, $62 million ($15.5M per year); $37.25 million total guaranteed

 

OT JAWAAN TAYLOR, JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS

Contract Projection: Four years, $57 million ($14.25M per year); $33.5 million total guaranteed

 

OG ISAAC SEUMALO, PHILADELPHIA EAGLES

Contract Projection: Three years, $33 million ($11M per year); $22 million total guaranteed

 

OG BEN POWERS, BALTIMORE RAVENS

Contract Projection: Four years, $36 million ($9M per year); $24 million total guaranteed

 

 OT KALEB MCGARY, ATLANTA FALCONS

Contract Projection: Four years, $52 million ($13M per year); $31 million total guaranteed

[Chris 44]

On 2/5/2023 at 11:48 AM, Wyvern said:

I think the only thing Chris Paul did was to make the case for getting more looks in the upcoming season for consideration of some kind of role with the offensive line.  Looking at the game as a whole, Paul had lots of instances where he didn't do very well.  There were a few promising moments, but he also benefited by (a) being an unknown entity at guard with very little film on him, and (b) a game plan that was very heavy on the run.  (I wasn't as impressed with Paul's performances when called upon to pass block.)

 

That said, Paul also might have had 1st game jitters as well as being still new to how the Washington O-line has to adjust as well as the speed of the game under live conditions.  And if the reports of him being a good learner, and making progress growing into his role are true ... then he might be ready to compete for the starting role in the upcoming preseason.

 

I don't see Washington cutting Norwell next season, unless his skills have eroded even more.  That means he probably keeps the LG role, unless they want an expensive backup.

I think you also cant understate the importance of having a stable QB position in the development of younger OL players. Learning cadence, tendencies etc. is compounded with multiple changes at QB.

[Wyvern]

21 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

I think you also cant understate the importance of having a stable QB position in the development of younger OL players. Learning cadence, tendencies etc. is compounded with multiple changes at QB.

I do agree with you, but I suspect Paul practiced more with Howell than with any of the other QBs.  If the reports are true, he'll learn from his first "live action" and further develop his skills especially during preseason.  And since he's on a cap-friendly contract, so I'm sure we'll see him sicking around and even getting some action in 2023... unless Washington uses a lot of high draft picks on interior offensive linemen. 

 

I think Trai Turner will be gone, but suspect they'll keep Norwell ... Unless he shows further signs of his decline during the pre-season.

[Chris 44]

1 minute ago, Wyvern said:

I do agree with you, but I suspect Paul practiced more with Howell than with any of the other QBs.  If the reports are true, he'll learn from his first "live action" and further develop his skills especially during preseason.  And since he's on a cap-friendly contract, so I'm sure we'll see him sicking around and even getting some action in 2023... unless Washington uses a lot of high draft picks on interior offensive linemen. 

 

I think Trai Turner will be gone, but suspect they'll keep Norwell ... Unless he shows further signs of his decline during the pre-season.

Just shows how much I know...I had high hopes for Norwell when he was first signed.