😀😀 Ron fired days ago. Mission Accomplished.😀😄

[Warhead36]

7 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

This was one of the first replies of the day, just talking about JDR's scheme. This is where I am. I see it so much now. Its not just that the scheme is complex. Its not just that JDR is a bad teacher, Maybe he is maybe he isn't, but 25 years of incompetence has led to a team of coaches where nobody in the NFL wants to come here. Its a hard nock lifs. 

 

This is the conversation I've been having on twitter (I think with elkabong82 and others who used to be (maybe still is) on here). But basically since there is nobody other than the Juan Castillo with experience running a defense, who can take over we are left in a vacuum. That's the Snyder culture we're talking about where nobody wanted to work here.

 

I also wonder if we have some good (possibly great) young coaches just starting out here but we need that veteran presence too. We can't have coaches freaking out too because its their first time coaching a blowout. I need to know you've been through the fire. 

 

(This was in reply to Lynnell Willingham) Look at the coaching page. Its not just a Ron problem. We have a coahcing problem. People didn't want to come here to this area unless it's to play a game. Not even to interview. EB will be a nice headline, but this problem is deep rooted and needs more time to fix. 

 

Agreed. Good people don't wanna work here. The few bright young minds we had ran off to greener pastures as soon as they could.

 

I think Harris will change that though. He will bring in legitimate football people and we'll ACTUALLY see a change in culture, not the fake crap Ron spews.

[Thinking Skins]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Agreed. Good people don't wanna work here. The few bright young minds we had ran off to greener pastures as soon as they could.

 

I think Harris will change that though. He will bring in legitimate football people and we'll ACTUALLY see a change in culture, not the fake crap Ron spews.

Yeah. I agree. I think that needs to be his focus. And I think @skinsinparadise had a good point about not wanting to seem trigger happy to potential GMs because this is the foundation for the next 30 years he's building. It could be same ol same ol or something new and better. 

[Riggo#44]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

Look at the coaching page. Its not just a Ron problem. We have a coahcing problem. People didn't want to come here to this area unless it's to play a game. Not even to interview. EB will be a nice headline, but this problem is deep rooted and needs more time to fix. 

 

This is one of my concerns about the upcoming offseason. We have no idea how much Harris and his team is going to be able to sell this organization. Our facilities still suck, our stadium still sucks. Yes, things will change, but someone like Ben Johnson will have other, likely better, options. I don't want to end up hiring Bieniemy because no one else wants him and he's the best of a bad lot.

[Conn]

6 hours ago, DWinzit said:

He did change the culture and deserves all the recognition he has received...or he points out.

 

That culture however is tunring against him do to many poor personnel and coaching decisions along with the way he has given up through this off season and especially the last 5 or 6 weeks. 

I have been hesitant to breach this because I **** on the dude in a football sense enough, but he gets entirely too much credit for the “culture change” (which can only refer to the inclusive hiring practices and lack of abuse on the business side that exists now—I know it can’t refer to the football side culture because not much has changed there and we’re just as mediocre now as we were 4 years ago).

 

Hate Wright all you want, the business side changes—going from a toxic boys’ club with sexism and drinking on the job and harassment and a culture of fear—were spearheaded by him. And he doesn’t deserve a ton of credit for it either, because it was just installing normal, non-liability-laden practices into a building that Snyder had spent decades ****ing up. Not an easy job, but also just a situation of resetting things to “normal”.

 

Say what you want about Wright’s snafu’s on the business side, I’m sure there’s plenty. I don’t care about the guy, while some have true vitriol for him due to the branding, name change, ST statue situation, etc. I’m fine laying most of all of those messes at the Snyders’ feet because his whole job was responding to their asinine requests (quick! we need a distraction let’s celebrate Sean Taylor, Jason!) and doing his best with a cheapo budget and then taking the bullets. And sure, he was a coward on social media at times once those bullets started to fly. But I’ve said from the beginning, he’s a political viper from McKinley. Some of the most evil people and ideas ever put into motion came from that company, so I expected he was a snake. Never cared, he was placed with Snyder by the league. I’ve always maintained that it’s only a function of Snyder’s  disfunction that we are a fanbase who even knows or cares who the business VP is. Most normal sports fanbases do not have to worry about crap like that. 
 

So, yeah. In conclusion, really no culture change on the football side under Rivera other than I guess Snyder stopped interfering, but that would have come with Harris taking over anyways. The team is still middling at best in talent, mediocre or worse on the field, unprepared, not innovative, undisciplined, etc. 

 

And the business side culture change that happened, which is what really needed to change from the prime Snyder days, had nothing to do with Rivera.

 

So sure, Rivera had to answer annoying questions about the culture and the scandals for a few years. It certainly added stress to his job and wasn’t fair.
 

But the credit he gets as a “culture changer” is a joke. He really didn’t do any of that, and what DID happen (on the business side) would have been league-mandated anyways. 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Conn

[Riggo#44]

BTW, 48 days until January 8th.

[88Comrade2000]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am not rooting for a blowout but a close loss.  From what I've gathered, a blow out, that's the best shot for Ron to be canned in season.  For me, at this point, Ron's bad coaching is what we need to finish off the season.  I want a top 5 pick, he's our best shot.  An interim coach, usually gets an artifical bounce one win.  i don't want that win.

 

I know you've not liked Ron forever.  If I felt that way, I'd want him to end this miserably versus putting him out of his misery.

 

The other thing is i want to be rid of this coaching staff.  A Ron firing gives a chance for a Ron spinoff coaching team next year.  i want a clean break from it.

A win won’t give the interim a job.

 

They are making a change and no one is coming back.

 

Even though it seems impossible but until it happens; Ron has never had fewer than 6 wins in a full season. Ron’s likely to pull out 2 wins.

[srtman04]

8 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Ron has never had fewer than 6 wins in a full season. Ron’s likely to pull out 2 wins.

 

There's a 1st time for everything!!    🙂  

[Thinking Skins]

@ConnI hear you and I am not crediting Ron with it, but I do think the culture is stressing him. Not necessarily the culture but the ramifications of it. Like he was in the press conference and talking and he said 

 

"Anybody who thinks this has been easy to hell with them"

 

Is he taking about just the cancer?

Just the covid?

Is Dan interfering more than we know?

We can we see that he couldn't get anyone in FA

 

But more and more I'm thinking about the talking he's having with the coaches. This is a good dude. We hear it over and over from the media. He probably talks to everyone he knows about working here and to a man they probably say "Ron I love you but I would die before I work in that dump."

 

And that probably makes him question why he ever took the money. It probably made Jay question why he took the money cause he couldn't find coaches. I thought it was ego but they are coaching for their jobs and their lives, they would hire a lot of people but those people wouldn't come here. And the ones that would are the ones that we didn't need.

[Thinking Skins]

29 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

This is one of my concerns about the upcoming offseason. We have no idea how much Harris and his team is going to be able to sell this organization. Our facilities still suck, our stadium still sucks. Yes, things will change, but someone like Ben Johnson will have other, likely better, options. I don't want to end up hiring Bieniemy because no one else wants him and he's the best of a bad lot.

Well, I don't care about Ben Johnson. I want EB right now. I want him to be able  to get assistant coaches. The stink is hard to get rid of. 

 

There's an old quote I use in my marriage list goes "trust is built in drops and lost in buckets".

 

We just need a good young defensive coordinator this year under EB with some experienced assistant coaches. I'd like to keep some for cohesion. 

 

I want Harris to focus on what he was doing last year, continuing to improve things. The stadium, the parking, driving, the showers, the next one, etc. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

10 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

But more and more I'm thinking about the talking he's having with the coaches. This is a good dude. We hear it over and over from the media. He probably talks to everyone he knows about working here and to a man they probably say "Ron I love you but I would die before I work in that dump."

I think you are giving him entirely too much credit in this department.  He clearly values comfort above all else.  The closest he was to modern football was KOC and Kyle Smith of whom he jettisoned in his first year to hire Norv’s son and old guys he’s friends with that have mediocre track records.  The hiring of Bienemy seemed a last ditch effort conjured up with Andy, and even he’s an old school guy.

 

[88Comrade2000]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't think for example Bieiniemy is a good coach from what I've seen.  But I think the dude's emotion is enough to awaken the team for a game.  Rivera is so drab that it feels like it rubbed off on this team.  I don't think they'd go on a run with Bieineimy but I think they could perhaps win 2 and with Ron its 1 at best.

 

I am not down on this roster.  I think it can be fixed fast.  Part of the reason why I, @Koolblue13 among others turned from Ron fans to critics is that this off season accomplished nothing.  They had in our opinion a mediocre roster that could have turned to good with a good off season.  But alas it didn't happen. 

 

The Lions and us had just about the same record last year.  Now they might be the best team in the NFL and we suck.  Shows what one good off season to build a team along with good coaching can do. 

 

It's sort like running a mile and Ron was running at an average pace and the expecation is the last lap, he'd pick it up and go for the win.  Instead he took his pace down a peg on the last lap.  It was beyond bizzare.  The Lions did the reverse, they stepped it up.  The kicker is Ron is really defiant about all of it, too -- that's part of what makes the ride insufferable.

Lions best team in nfl?  No. There good but their defense will prevent them from going far. Maybe a playoff win at best.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

9 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Well, I don't care about Ben Johnson. I want EB right now. I want him to be able  to get assistant coaches. The stink is hard to get rid of. 

This is a perplexing take.  One guy turned Goff back into a winner and leads an offense scoring points in droves, likely headed deep into the playoffs with nothing but the highest of compliments and great things being said about him.  The other speaks in 3rd person, has been more miss than hit, was passed over by half the league and has very minimal positive reamrks being said about him.

[method man]

41 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

This is one of my concerns about the upcoming offseason. We have no idea how much Harris and his team is going to be able to sell this organization. Our facilities still suck, our stadium still sucks. Yes, things will change, but someone like Ben Johnson will have other, likely better, options. I don't want to end up hiring Bieniemy because no one else wants him and he's the best of a bad lot.

I don’t think he will. I think the only jobs that may come up better than ours are the Chargers and the Patriots. With the Chargers, you have weather and Herbert but you also have bad ownership and an unstable FO situation if they keep Telesco. With the Pats, you have a what you’d want outside the QB which you may get if you pick high enough but you are following Bill’s legacy

[88Comrade2000]

4 hours ago, samy316 said:

Steelers just fired Matt Canada.  He’s been one of the most scrutinized coaches in the league, for how terrible the Steeler’s O has performed.  If the Steelers who NEVER fire coaches in season in their history do it, there’s no reason why we can’t either.  This might be the first time since the 1960’s that the Steelers have fired a coach in season.  That’s incredible when you think about it.  NO REASON whatsoever to not can Del Rio and/or Rivera after Friday, especially when we’re looking at a beat down of epic proportions on Thanksgiving @Dallas.

 

I just checked, and it says that the last time a Steelers coach (head coach or assistant) was fired in season was 1968.  55 years since it happened.  That’s absolutely incredible.

Jack at least, should be gone on Friday.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, 88Comrade2000 said:

Jack at least, should be gone on Friday.

Ron isn’t going to fire Jack and Josh isn’t going to make him do it.  Why would Ron sacrifice his good buddy when he knows he’s out of here?

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I understand both sides.

 

Josh said he’d give Ron the year, and if he doesn’t - it welcomes scrutiny and a vibe that he’s not a man of his word.  There’s little to gain by firing him now, aside from satisfying those that want blood.  They can’t begin interviewing anyone currently with a job in the league at this time, so it doesn’t even provide a head start.  Ron made this mess, so why put him out of his misery and make him see this thing out.

 

On the other hand, I understand those that want blood and want to see Ron humiliated.  I also think that if this team gets blown out by the Cowboys on Thanksgiving, nobody would fault Josh for pulling the plug early.  
 

Ultimately, I have no idea what I would do if I was in Josh’s shoes.  

Yeah, you hit the nail on the head.  

 

Here's my thought:  if you know who you want to hire for your next GM, and that person is available, or you can talk to that person now, and you can't do that because Ron's in place, you fire Ron so you can openly have those conversations.  If you have somebody you want to bring in to do roster evaluation for next year and you can't because Ron's around, then see-ya Jack.  

 

If you can't talk to the person now or don't know, then you do nothing because by firing Ron you solve no problems.

 

Ultimately, the decision makes itself:  If there's a good reason to do it which helps with the evaluation for next year, you do it.  If there's no reason to do it because it doesn't help for next year, you don't.

 

I don't really care about the people who want blood.  That's just an emotional reaction.  

 

I'd actually much rather Josh just let this ride out the year with what he's got than make any changes now.  The time for change was earlier this season.  Ron should have fired Jack WEEKS ago and maybe a stuffed Toucan could have called a better defense.  But at 4-7, it's too late to worry about firing a guy to try and make this year better.  

 

The Steelers are still in the playoff hunt, they have reason to believe if they fire Matt Canada, maybe they get better.  Maybe they don't.  Probably won't get worse.  Same thing with the Bills.

 

But that's not the situation we're in.

 

In order to fire Ron, you need to be solving a problem.  If you're not solving a problem, there's no reason to do it.  

 

[Redwards]

53 minutes ago, Conn said:

I have been hesitant to breach this because I **** on the dude in a football sense enough, but he gets entirely too much credit for the “culture change” (which can only refer to the inclusive hiring practices and lack of abuse on the business side that exists now—I know it can’t refer to the football side culture because not much has changed there and we’re just as mediocre now as we were 4 years ago).

 

Hate Wright all you want, the business side changes—going from a toxic boys’ club with sexism and drinking on the job and harassment and a culture of fear—were spearheaded by him. And he doesn’t get a ton of credit for it either, because it was just installing normal, non-liability-laden practices into a building that Snyder had spent decades ****ing up. Not an easy job, but also just a situation of resetting things to “normal”.

 

Say what you want about Wright’s snafu’s on the business side, I’m sure there’s plenty. I don’t care about the guy, while some have true vitriol for him due to the branding, name change, ST statue situation, etc. I’m fine laying most of all of those messes at the Snyders’ feet because his whole job was responding to their asinine requests (quick! we need a distraction let’s celebrate Sean Taylor, Jason!) and doing his best with a cheapo budget and then taking the bullets. And sure, he was a coward on social media at times once those bullets started to fly. But I’ve said from the beginning, he’s a political viper from McKinley. Some of the most evil people and ideas ever put into motion came from that company, so I expected he was a snake. Never cared, he was placed with Snyder by the league. I’ve always maintained that it’s only a function of Snyder’s  disfunction that we are a fanbase who even knows or cares who the business VP is. Most normal sports fanbases do not have to worry about crap like that. 
 

So, yeah. In conclusion, really no culture change on the football side under Rivera other than I guess Snyder stopped interfering, but that would have come with Harris taking over anyways. The team is still middling at best in talent, mediocre or worse on the field, unprepared, not innovative, undisciplined, etc. 

 

And the business side culture change that happened, which is what really needed to change from the prime Snyder days, had nothing to do with Rivera.

 

So sure, Rivera had to answer annoying questions about the culture and the scandals for a few years. It certainly added stress to his job and wasn’t fair.
 

But the credit he gets as a “culture changer” is a joke. He really didn’t do any of that, and what DID happen (on the business side) would have been league-mandated anyways. 

These are 100% my sentiments.  Well said.  

 

Ron gets a ridiculous amount of pity and credit for doing extremely little.  Meanwhile, he continues to beat the dead horse that we have a young team full of young guys "growing" and "learning", which we all know is complete BS.   He came in here talking about taking the blame when things go bad.  He's made excuses from the jump, and rarely takes any real, heartfelt public responsibility.  I have ZERO respect for Ron Rivera the Coach.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

It's punitive and vindictive, just like...you know...He Who Must Not Be Named.

 

EDIT: Why the heck are my animated gifs no longer working!!!!  I demand a refund. 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Voice_of_Reason

[Busch1724]

I find firing Ron now/during the season so perplexing, even just firing coaches during the season in general. We want better draft pick position right? Let Ron stay then. Getting a pound of flesh is not always the right way to go. Is everyone afraid he's going to win too many games? What does firing Ron accomplish?

 

I can see one circumstance in which you fire a coach mid-season: Players are ready to revolt against the coach. We're not seeing that, yet. In fact they seem to like the guy. 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Busch1724

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

@ConnI hear you and I am not crediting Ron with it, but I do think the culture is stressing him. Not necessarily the culture but the ramifications of it. Like he was in the press conference and talking and he said 

 

"Anybody who thinks this has been easy to hell with them"

 

Is he taking about just the cancer?

Just the covid?

Is Dan interfering more than we know?

We can we see that he couldn't get anyone in FA

 

But more and more I'm thinking about the talking he's having with the coaches. This is a good dude. We hear it over and over from the media. He probably talks to everyone he knows about working here and to a man they probably say "Ron I love you but I would die before I work in that dump."

 

And that probably makes him question why he ever took the money. It probably made Jay question why he took the money cause he couldn't find coaches. I thought it was ego but they are coaching for their jobs and their lives, they would hire a lot of people but those people wouldn't come here. And the ones that would are the ones that we didn't need.

Yes, there is a price when you make a deal with the devil. 
 

Doesn’t change my argument that Rivera didn’t do anything to change the culture here. The football side culture is the same at best and the business side culture change had nothing to do with him, and would have been league-mandated to happen anyways. 

[88Comrade2000]

2 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

@ConnI hear you and I am not crediting Ron with it, but I do think the culture is stressing him. Not necessarily the culture but the ramifications of it. Like he was in the press conference and talking and he said 

 

"Anybody who thinks this has been easy to hell with them"

 

Is he taking about just the cancer?

Just the covid?

Is Dan interfering more than we know?

We can we see that he couldn't get anyone in FA

 

But more and more I'm thinking about the talking he's having with the coaches. This is a good dude. We hear it over and over from the media. He probably talks to everyone he knows about working here and to a man they probably say "Ron I love you but I would die before I work in that dump."

 

And that probably makes him question why he ever took the money. It probably made Jay question why he took the money cause he couldn't find coaches. I thought it was ego but they are coaching for their jobs and their lives, they would hire a lot of people but those people wouldn't come here. And the ones that would are the ones that we didn't need.

Boo Hoo.

 

Ron knew what he was getting to. The team being one where good players and quality coaches avoid.  That was a known quantity before Ron took the job.

Yeah, when all that crap that was revealed in 2020 made things worse but that’s on par for this team.  If it really bothered him, he should’ve resigned after the 2020 season. Especially after having to deal with cancer. He should’ve resigned and take time away from game. He probably could’ve landed a head coaching gig in future.1

 

 

Ron got seduced by Dan with all that power. Remember he was just fired from Carolina and Dan sweet talked him into taking the job. Ron loved having full control. Can do what he wanted and he did and failed at it. Everything was done with approval from Ron.

 

No one would’ve fault him for resigning after that 2020 season. He could’ve said I didn’t sign on for this. Also, with all that; I won division.

 

Ron can’t go crying. He knew what he was getting into and he’s the one that built this pile of 💩.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I understand both sides.

 

Josh said he’d give Ron the year, and if he doesn’t - it welcomes scrutiny and a vibe that he’s not a man of his word.  There’s little to gain by firing him now, aside from satisfying those that want blood.  They can’t begin interviewing anyone currently with a job in the league at this time, so it doesn’t even provide a head start.  Ron made this mess, so why put him out of his misery and make him see this thing out.

 

On the other hand, I understand those that want blood and want to see Ron humiliated.  I also think that if this team gets blown out by the Cowboys on Thanksgiving, nobody would fault Josh for pulling the plug early.  
 

Ultimately, I have no idea what I would do if I was in Josh’s shoes.  

 

Josh clearly values having a high pick judging by his work in Philly.  If it's what he wants here and believes (don't know that he does) that Ron is the best chance to lose some more, I'd run with Ron to the end.

 

And if the idea is to punish Ron I think its more punishing to let him do the whole season.  I heard the boos and fire Ron chants last Sunday, it will hit fever pitch if this goes on.

2 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Lions best team in nfl?  No. There good but their defense will prevent them from going far. Maybe a playoff win at best.

 

Meant to say NFC. 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

11 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Boo Hoo.

 

Ron knew what he was getting to. The team being one where good players and quality coaches avoid.  That was a known quantity before Ron took the job.

Yeah, when all that crap that was revealed in 2020 made things worse but that’s on par for this team.  If it really bothered him, he should’ve resigned after the 2020 season. Especially after having to deal with cancer. He should’ve resigned and take time away from game. He probably could’ve landed a head coaching gig in future.1

 

 

Ron got seduced by Dan with all that power. Remember he was just fired from Carolina and Dan sweet talked him into taking the job. Ron loved having full control. Can do what he wanted and he did and failed at it. Everything was done with approval from Ron.

 

No one would’ve fault him for resigning after that 2020 season. He could’ve said I didn’t sign on for this. Also, with all that; I won division.

 

Ron can’t go crying. He knew what he was getting into and he’s the one that built this pile of 💩.

I'm not crying for Ron. I'm sad cause we can't get a good thing for our players. DG is has to volunteer his services because he sees that guys aren't getting the coaching they need. That's not my crying for Ron that's my wanting to win games. 

 

We have the wrong assistant coaches. And we have them because nobody wants to coach here. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

A win won’t give the interim a job.

 

They are making a change and no one is coming back.

 

Even though it seems impossible but until it happens; Ron has never had fewer than 6 wins in a full season. Ron’s likely to pull out 2 wins.

 

Ron's season is off the rails it doesn't feel like has two more wins in him.

 

The idea that they'd hand this to Bieineimy and in turn he has no chance to be the HC next year -- doesn't seem to flow.  I've seen enough that I don't want Bieniemy so I don't want any excuse for them to consider it more heavily which could happen if they play better than they did under Ron.

[RWJ]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Ron's season is off the rails it doesn't feel like has two more wins in him.

 

The idea that they'd hand this to Bieineimy and in turn he has no chance to be the HC next year -- doesn't seem to flow.  I've seen enough that I don't want Bieniemy so I don't want any excuse for them to consider it more heavily which could happen if they play better than they did under Ron.

I'd have to agree with not wanting EB.  I thought he would make a big difference but we can see why he was let go of by KC.  Maybe Jeff Z would take over as the interim if RR is let go of after Thursday's game.  All of us have to watch how this plays out.  We don't know enough about Harris yet. 

Edited November 21, 2023 by RWJ