Game Day Thread - Ron's New Team vs Ron's Old Team

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

After some thought I agree with this comment, in fact, I believe Williams is a tougher runner than Gibson is. I was very impressed with BRob jr and Williams to the point where they both sort of exposed Gibson. That being said I like Gibson but how can you trust him as a RB?

You keep 4.

 

Gibson/McKissick as the receiving threats that can run.

 

Robinson/Williams or Patterson as the downhill, primary, ball carrying backs. 
 

The real question is, and I 100% don’t see this but it’s a conversation point: if Gibson continues to drop the ball (literally) through preseason, does the team roll with Robinson/McKissick/Patterson/Williams and make Gibson a surprise cut. 
 

I don’t think so. There is too much value in Gibson in a dynamic capacity and I don’t see the continued fumble issues being a major issue. 

[SkinsWmsbg]

18 minutes ago, KDawg said:

You keep 4.

 

Gibson/McKissick as the receiving threats that can run.

 

Robinson/Williams or Patterson as the downhill, primary, ball carrying backs. 
 

The real question is, and I 100% don’t see this but it’s a conversation point: if Gibson continues to drop the ball (literally) through preseason, does the team roll with Robinson/McKissick/Patterson/Williams and make Gibson a surprise cut. 
 

I don’t think so. There is too much value in Gibson in a dynamic capacity and I don’t see the continued fumble issues being a major issue. 

 

It's easy to say Gibson has too much value right now but the next time he fumbles in game (and you know there will be a next time) will be the last time IMO.  You can't have a RB who fumbles at his rate. 

 

I like Gibs but my confidence in him being a RB1 is just gone.  I love the character of our squad right now. The way Leno and Wentz went over to Gibs after that fumble to lift him up (the best way that they could)

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, SkinsWmsbg said:

 

It's easy to say Gibson has too much value right now but the next time he fumbles in game (and you know there will be a next time) will be the last time IMO.  You can't have a RB who fumbles at his rate. 

 

I like Gibs but my confidence in him being a RB1 is just gone.  I love the character of our squad right now. The way Leno and Wentz went over to Gibs after that fumble to lift him up (the best way that they could)

 

We can't know that until it happens.

 

But as an aside, if the offensive staff doesn't see a way or have plans to use Gibson dynamically he becomes immediately expendable. 

 

If he's on the roster as just a backup he's almost a waste of a spot because of his fumble issues. I'd keep the other four in that case.

 

But if they are going to get a little creative with him, use him in the slot, move him, use him on jet sweeps, as a decoy, occasionally use him on the downhill run plays but much less and get him in space and get the ball out there on swings/screens... than he is far too valuable to give up on. He was a receiver in college and those skills translate directly to being a dynamic playmaker type vs. a downhill masher.

 

So, TL;DR: If they are going to use him creatively he is a 100% must keep. If they are going to only use him in an unimaginative RB role than he isn't worth the roster spot. 

[redskinss]

Fumbling issues can be fixed too, a la tiki barber.

He had over 1000 yards last season, its probably a little premature to give up on him.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Keep in mind, this is preseason. We aren't running our regular season alignments and playcalls out for Jacksonville to see.

 

Is Gibson still going to be an inside runner in the regular season, or will he be doing more outside zone and the like? The play he fumbled on was a play he generally doesn't run well and the coaches have acknowledged that and have said they'll try different usage.

 

But it's preseason so this is when you put players in less optimal spots to see if they've developed. He's still not an inside runner. That doesn't mean we should cut him.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

Keep in mind, this is preseason. We aren't running our regular season alignments and playcalls out for Jacksonville to see.

 

Is Gibson still going to be an inside runner in the regular season, or will he be doing more outside zone and the like? The play he fumbled on was a play he generally doesn't run well and the coaches have acknowledged that and have said they'll try different usage.

 

But it's preseason so this is when you put players in less optimal spots to see if they've developed. He's still not an inside runner. That doesn't mean we should cut him.

This is it. It comes down to usage. If the plan is to be creative cutting him is not just a mistake but stupid. If they are going to use him downhill he’s not as good as the other guys at that, in my opinion. And we won’t know what their plans are, they do. So if they keep him, as they should, we should hypothesize they have a plan.

[HigSkin]

 

[Chris 44]

I was curious who had the most fumbles last year. Prescott had the most, but among running backs:

 

A. Gibson                FUM/ LOST   6 / 4                258 attempts        1037 yards

D. Singletary                                 5  / 0               188                       870

M. Davis                                       4  / 3                138                       503

A. Ekeler                                       4 / 3                 206                      911

J. Taylor                                        4 / 2                 332                      1811

J. Robinson                                  4 / 2                 164                       767

D. Felton                                       4 / 0                 7                          24

M. Gordon                                     3 / 3                203                       918

D. Cook                                         3 / 2                249                       1159

N. Hines                                        3 / 2                56                          276

 

Then I decided to do the math for %

A. Gibson  6                 .023

D. Singletary   5           .026

M. Davis 4                    .028

A. Ekeler 4                   .019

J. Taylor   4                   .012

J. Robinson 4               ,024

D. Felton 4                   .571

M. Gordon  3                .014

D. Cook 3                     .012

N. Hines 3                    .053

 

Been saying this for 3 years, Gibson is not an every down back (has been used as such evidence the attempts), need a real bell cow to pull the weight. Gibson though is still very valuable.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Chris 44

[Koolblue13]

25 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Fumbling issues can be fixed too, a la tiki barber.

He had over 1000 yards last season, its probably a little premature to give up on him.

I have made that comparison a few times too. Once the Giants got the big pounder back, Tiki learned to stop fumbling, so maybe that happens with Gibby, too, but it's far more likely that BRob just replaces him and he's not going to be as dynamic as McKissic., so does a backfield of BRob, Mc and Gibby or BRob, Mc and Williams give you a better shot at winning throughout a 17 game season and beyond.

[Chris 44]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I have made that comparison a few times too. Once the Giants got the big pounder back, Tiki learned to stop fumbling, so maybe that happens with Gibby, too, but it's far more likely that BRob just replaces him and he's not going to be as dynamic as McKissic., so does a backfield of BRob, Mc and Gibby or BRob, Mc and Williams give you a better shot at winning throughout a 17 game season and beyond.

Would love to run with 4 if possible. Someone's getting hurt at some point. But at what cost to other positions?

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Chris 44 said:

Would love to run with 4 if possible. Someone's getting hurt at some point. But at what cost to other positions?

4 RBs

4 TEs

3 QBs

6 WRs

10 OL

 

Pick two.

 

Personally, I'm guessing if Thomas starts the season playing that Rogers has a shot to make TE4 a thing, but 10 OL and 6WR is what happens.

[Warhead36]

I don't know if this is the case or not(maybe someone can look it up) but it feels like Gibson's fumbles are always when he's running in traffic in those up the middle runs. Has he ever fumbled off like say a screen pass or outside toss run kinda thing? Goes back to what we all know: he's much better in space but just really bad in traffic.

[kingdaddy]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

You keep 4.

 

Gibson/McKissick as the receiving threats that can run.

 

Robinson/Williams or Patterson as the downhill, primary, ball carrying backs. 
 

The real question is, and I 100% don’t see this but it’s a conversation point: if Gibson continues to drop the ball (literally) through preseason, does the team roll with Robinson/McKissick/Patterson/Williams and make Gibson a surprise cut. 
 

I don’t think so. There is too much value in Gibson in a dynamic capacity and I don’t see the continued fumble issues being a major issue. 

Doubt they'd cut him because he has too much talent but I could definitely see him as trade bait.

[skinny21]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

We can't know that until it happens.

 

But as an aside, if the offensive staff doesn't see a way or have plans to use Gibson dynamically he becomes immediately expendable. 

 

If he's on the roster as just a backup he's almost a waste of a spot because of his fumble issues. I'd keep the other four in that case.

 

But if they are going to get a little creative with him, use him in the slot, move him, use him on jet sweeps, as a decoy, occasionally use him on the downhill run plays but much less and get him in space and get the ball out there on swings/screens... than he is far too valuable to give up on. He was a receiver in college and those skills translate directly to being a dynamic playmaker type vs. a downhill masher.

 

So, TL;DR: If they are going to use him creatively he is a 100% must keep. If they are going to only use him in an unimaginative RB role than he isn't worth the roster spot. 

That’s the thing isn’t it - McKissick is your dynamic back that covers most of those uses you mention for Gibson (and is better in pass pro).  

 

I could envision a team trying to trade for him w/ a late round pick if they lost guys to injury, but I think the staff would want to hold on to him as insurance for McKissick/Robinson.  

[goskins10]

Decent breakdown by JAG online. But still decent. Funny too.  

 

 

[KDawg]

That's my point for sure. People get too caught up in position labels (here we go again...)

 

But, let's say the four backs are: Gibson, Robinson, McKissick and Patterson.

 

It's really two separate depth charts: Gibson & McKissick on one (the dynamic back, the move back, the receiving back) and Robinson & Patterson (the pure runners)

 

That doesn't mean there isn't skill crossover, that is afterall why they are all generalized as running backs. So they can be used interchangeably... But their specialties are separate. 

[Ball Security]

4 hours ago, KDawg said:

You keep 4.

 

Gibson/McKissick as the receiving threats that can run.

 

Robinson/Williams or Patterson as the downhill, primary, ball carrying backs. 
 

The real question is, and I 100% don’t see this but it’s a conversation point: if Gibson continues to drop the ball (literally) through preseason, does the team roll with Robinson/McKissick/Patterson/Williams and make Gibson a surprise cut. 
 

I don’t think so. There is too much value in Gibson in a dynamic capacity and I don’t see the continued fumble issues being a major issue. 

Are you only carrying 2 QBs if you are keeping 4 RBs?  Because if you keep Heinicke then you only have max 9 TE/WR (including PR/KR) with 9 OL.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Ball Security said:

Are you only carrying 2 QBs if you are keeping 4 RBs?  Because if you keep Heinicke then you only have max 9 TE/WR (including PR/KR) with 9 OL.

There has to be choices made. Not sure where I'd dip from at this point. 

[bowhunter]

36 minutes ago, KDawg said:

That's my point for sure. People get too caught up in position labels (here we go again...)

 

But, let's say the four backs are: Gibson, Robinson, McKissick and Patterson.

 

It's really two separate depth charts: Gibson & McKissick on one (the dynamic back, the move back, the receiving back) and Robinson & Patterson (the pure runners)

 

That doesn't mean there isn't skill crossover, that is afterall why they are all generalized as running backs. So they can be used interchangeably... But their specialties are separate. 

I love me some J.Patterson, but do you think at 195 lbs he can be the bellcow if B.Rob goes down? He seems to me to be a jack of all trades and master of none.  Quick enough to be a COP threat and have a bit more quickness  when the box isn't stacked. But I don't envision him as a between the tackles pounder when that need arises.  So if we're gonna keep 2 of each style, why not Williams instead? For me, the Williams-Patterson decision should largely be based on ST contribution.

[KDawg]

9 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

I love me some J.Patterson, but do you think at 195 lbs he can be the bellcow if B.Rob goes down? He seems to me to be a jack of all trades and master of none.  Quick enough to be a COP threat and have a bit more quickness  when the box isn't stacked. But I don't envision him as a between the tackles pounder when that need arises.  So if we're gonna keep 2 of each style, why not Williams instead? For me, the Williams-Patterson decision should largely be based on ST contribution.

 

Sure. He is a bowling ball due to his height.

 

Also, I got 93'd by Koolblue because he doesn't like intricate conversation regarding position labels and prefers the typical general approach.

[bowhunter]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

Sure. He is a bowling ball due to his height.

 

Also, I got 93'd by Koolblue because he doesn't like intricate conversation regarding position labels and prefers the typical general approach.

94 his ass and **** slap him right back

[KDawg]

Just now, bowhunter said:

94 his ass and **** slap him right back

 

No, no. We are all able to have our own way of looking at things and going through things. No need to 94 him... or... I don't even want to mention it... 95 him.

[Cooleyfan1993]

Cool, people STILL mocking me even when I’m not even part of the conversation. Bet that makes you all feel big……..

 

it’s been SEVEN months, people…….I haven’t done that **** for SEVEN months……….drop it already. It’s disrespectful to me. 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Cooleyfan1993

[bowhunter]

5 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Cool, people STILL mocking me even when I’m not even part of the conversation. Bet that makes you all feel big……..

 

it’s been SEVEN months, people…….drop it already. Jeez. 

It's family here, and some of us are akin to your good looking and cool but annoying uncles.

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Cool, people STILL mocking me even when I’m not even part of the conversation. Bet that makes you all feel big……..

 

it’s been SEVEN months, people…….I haven’t done that **** for SEVEN months……….drop it already. It’s disrespectful to me. 

I was referring to skinsfan93. Who has been doing the thumbs down thing lately.

 

Its not always about you sir. 
 

Anyways, I like Parker a lot too, the more I watch him.

Edited August 15, 2022 by KDawg