The Evil Genius Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 As someone who has crossed this bridge a thousand times in the past 23 years, I cannot imagine seeing this in front of me. Surprised there wasn't more damaged cars tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Evil Genius said: Are you aware of something else? The video shows otherwise. Yes, if the fsd suite slows down you are supposed to apply acceleration. You are responsible for the car at all times. If you set up a tall ladder on an incline and it fell over, would you blame the ladder or the idiot behind the wheel. 1 hour ago, mistertim said: So FSD putting on the turn signal, moving into the left lane and then immediately braking to a stop in the middle of a highway didn't cause the crash? What did, then? Are you claiming the driver is lying and actually did that themselves? The software did that becuase the driver did not respond to nags, audio chimes, an red flashing lights for at least 30 seconds. It’s all in the manual. The car did exactly what it said it would do. 1 hour ago, Cooked Crack said: He hates misinformation so much he's unbanning the absolute dregs of the internet. Fair point. Of course, that does not fit with his pledge to stop misinformation, but then again, I wasn’t making a blanket statement about the job he is doing regarding misinformation. 1 hour ago, Cooked Crack said: Edited January 12, 2023 by CousinsCowgirl84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 So basically "Full Self Driving" is just a complete lie and it's more like "Driving Assistance That Sometimes Works And It's Your Fault If It Doesn't"? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) Just now, mistertim said: So basically "Full Self Driving" is just a complete lie and it's more like "Driving Assistance That Sometimes Works And It's Your Fault If It Doesn't"? That is exactly what Tesla says. Edited January 12, 2023 by CousinsCowgirl84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 9 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: That is exactly what Tesla says. I mean, hey...as long as they admit that they're lying hucksters it's all good I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, mistertim said: I mean, hey...as long as they admit that they're lying hucksters it's all good I guess. of course, if you ever drove a Tesla with the fsd beta suite you’d know what you are saying isn’t true. As part of the fsd software suite you get constantly updated driving assist software (that works really good most of the time) as well as free fsd related hardware upgrades for the life of the car. (You don’t get the hardware upgrades if you pay for fsd monthly subscription). btw, this says nothing about how fsd beta performed. The car operated as expected once receiving no input from the driver for an extended period of time. Edited January 12, 2023 by CousinsCowgirl84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball Security Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 6 hours ago, mistertim said: I mean, hey...as long as they admit that they're lying hucksters it's all good I guess. Ikr? Seriously, CC84? You're doing that self-ownage thing again. Why have (and pay for) it if it's not going to work? That's the whole point, right? Especially when lives are involved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said: Ikr? Seriously, CC84? You're doing that self-ownage thing again. Why have (and pay for) it if it's not going to work? That's the whole point, right? Especially when lives are involved. It is a driver assist feature. It works most of the time in most scenarios. I mean, All I have to say is try it. But specifically in regards to that accident, here is what the vehicle manual says: (my emphasis) Quote Hold Steering Wheel Autosteer determines how best to steer Model Y. When active, Autosteer requires you to hold the steering wheel. If it does not detect your hands on the steering wheel for a period of time, a flashing blue light appears at the top of the car status section of the touchscreen and the following message displays: Apply slight turning force to steering wheel Autosteer detects your hands by recognizing slight resistance as the steering wheel turns, or from you manually turning the steering wheel very lightly (without enough force to take over steering).Autosteer also qualifies your hands as being detected if you engage a turn signal or use a button or scroll wheel on the steering wheel. Note When your hands are detected, the message disappears and Autosteer resumes normal operation. Autosteer requires that you pay attention to your surroundings and remain prepared to take control at any time. If Autosteer still does not detect your hands on the steering wheel, the flashing light on the car status section of the touchscreen increases in frequency and a chime sounds. If you repeatedly ignore Autosteer's prompts to apply slight force to the steering wheel, Autosteer disables for the rest of the drive and displays the following message requesting you to drive manually. If you don't resume manual steering, Autosteer sounds a continuous chime, turns on the warning flashers, and slows the vehicle to a complete stop. Edited January 13, 2023 by CousinsCowgirl84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) 45 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: It is a driver assist feature. It works most of the time in most scenarios. I mean, All I have to say is try it. But specifically in regards to that accident, here is what the vehicle manual says: (my emphasis) Maybe, but from what the driver reported, it doesn't sound like this was the case, and the driver is a lawyer so it's pretty unlikely that he'd blatantly lie to the cops. Though apparently he may have thought it was in FSD when it was actually in autopilot/driver assist. It sounds a bit more like a "phantom braking" issue. This goes pretty in depth. https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2023/01/11/an-8-car-pileup-started-by-a-tesla-in-autopilot-opens-up-many-complex-issues/ Edited January 13, 2023 by mistertim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, mistertim said: Maybe, but from what the driver reported, it doesn't sound like this was the case, and the driver is a lawyer so it's pretty unlikely that he'd blatantly lie to the cops. Though apparently he may have thought it was in FSD when it was actually in autopilot/driver assist. It sounds a bit more like a "phantom braking" issue. This goes pretty in depth. https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2023/01/11/an-8-car-pileup-started-by-a-tesla-in-autopilot-opens-up-many-complex-issues/ phantom breaking will not bring the car to a complete stop. Even if it did, using autopilot the way it is described in the cars manual will give you plenty of time to react. I have experienced phantom breaking. The car slows from 70 to 55 in about 2 seconds before I am able to recover. It doesn’t slam on the breaks. To correct, you just have to press the accelerator. If you are not paying attention, then I suspect it can be quite jarring. lawyers don’t lie? 🤭 I feel like the article actually casts serious doubt on his account of what happens, specifically: Quote The Tesla in this case did something quite unusual, if the statement of its driver is to be credited. It attempted an automatic lane change when its own lane was not particularly slow. The car in front was around 3 seconds ahead. Normally such a change happens only when you’ve come up on slower traffic in your lane. It attempted the change when there were cars behind and to the left of it, which it is usually fairly conservative about — but it does do it, as humans do all the time, though possibly unwisely. Based on the police report, it attempted the lane change even though it was already braking for some ghost that wasn’t there. After changing it braked even harder. Teslas do not tend to do evasive action and swerve around obstacles, they just brake if they see one — or think they see one. As a 2021 model S it would still have ultrasonic blind spot sensors As such, something odd was going on here. It’s an unusual enough situation that I haven’t seen much in way of reports on phantom braking before or during a lane change. It seems to have happened, though it’s also possible the driver misreported and manually commanded the lane change. If the driver manually disengaged Autopilot and, in spite of the tones it makes, failed to notice, that could potentially explained it The article is mostly fair, and brings up important considerations for any ADAS system. Edited January 13, 2023 by CousinsCowgirl84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Do Itch Big Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Lol did you seriously just say lawyers don’t lie. i agree with cousins. The person is likely at fault. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabbyrwock Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 29 minutes ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said: Lol did you seriously just say lawyers don’t lie. i agree with cousins. The person is likely at fault. I think it was Colonel Mustard, in the tunnel, with the Tesla. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said: Lol did you seriously just say lawyers don’t lie. i agree with cousins. The person is likely at fault. To me or you? Of course they do. To the police? Probably not unless they're 100% certain there's no evidence to the contrary, because they know very well how much trouble you can get into by lying about something like that to the cops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 2 hours ago, mistertim said: To me or you? Of course they do. To the police? Probably not unless they're 100% certain there's no evidence to the contrary, because they know very well how much trouble you can get into by lying about something like that to the cops. Well, I mean, being wrong about what happened and/or misremembering isn’t against the law. They’d have to prove you knew you were lying, which is hard to do in a case like this even if it turns out autopilot wasn’t even activated. I think the most likely scenario is old dude fell asleep behind navigate on autopilot and slept through the chimes up until the very last panic alert (which is a very loud alarm chime) woke up to his car pulling over and breaking and was unprepared to make the required corrections. So he is telling the truth, autopilot was activated. However, the swerve and stop wasn’t sudden or unexpected, but he slept through the numerous visual/auditory alerts till the last one. Here is a video of the autopilot disengagement sequence (relevant part of the video starts at about 1:25) seems to match up 💯with the accident reported behavior of the tesla. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 On 1/12/2023 at 9:02 AM, mistertim said: So basically "Full Self Driving" is just a complete lie and it's more like "Driving Assistance That Sometimes Works And It's Your Fault If It Doesn't"? It's basically cruise control from the 1980s lol... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Do Itch Big Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Califan007 The Constipated said: It's basically cruise control from the 1980s lol... It’s not tho. Y’all some haters. There’s plenty of rational stuff to hate about Tesla. Like how millions of customers are getting duped to pay for FSD but then their hardware gets outdated so they need to be retro fitted with new hardware to be able to support “FSD” pretty sure the same is going to happen HW4 Buying FSD is stupid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said: It’s not tho. Y’all some haters. There’s plenty of rational stuff to hate about Tesla. Like how millions of customers are getting duped to pay for FSD but then their hardware gets outdated so they need to be retro fitted with new hardware to be able to support “FSD” pretty sure the same is going to happen HW4 Buying FSD is stupid If you buy fsd you will get the new hardware. the real issue is are you going to still have your Tesla 7-10 years from now? Probably not. When I bought it for 3K it was a good value, when I bought it for 7K it wasn’t worth it but it was close, for 15K there is no way I can talk myself into buying it. I don’t think TSLA wants to sell fsd anymore anyway; they much rather you subscribe to fsd as a service. But it isn’t worth $300/mo either. They give you autopilot for free. If all of that was behind the fsd paywall, it might be worth it. I agree buying fsd doesn’t make economic sense. Edited January 16, 2023 by CousinsCowgirl84 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 44 minutes ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said: It’s not tho. Y’all some haters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Califan007 The Constipated said: Explain why it’s funny then… ”the sky is green” ”huh?” ”the joke is over your head” 🤔 Edited January 16, 2023 by CousinsCowgirl84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 3 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Explain why it’s funny then… ”the sky is green” ”huh?” ”the joke is over your head” 🤔 I was making a joke about what mistertim said...not about the Tesla's self-driving mode. What he described was basically cruse control from the 1980s. But I guess when it comes to Musk, some people get immediately defensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said: LWhat he described was basically cruse control from the 1980s. I guess you have to be old to get that joke… Edited January 16, 2023 by CousinsCowgirl84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 4 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: I guess you have to be old to get that joke… Orrrr...haven driven a car at any time over the last 40 years lol... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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