Wentz Traded to Washington for 2 3rd Rounders per Bleacher Report

[Voice_of_Reason]

I think it was Breer, maybe somebody else who said Washington coaches are still going to have to get Wentz to understand when the play is dead and move to the checkdown (paraphrased) 

 

I keep coming back to, don’t do that.  That’s not who he is and he’s not good at it.  Sure, you don’t want him to YOLO it or “[screw] it I’m going deep” all the time.  But instead of trying to coach him out of something nobody has been able to do for 6 years, try to work with him to accentuate his escape routes and do things which are more natural to him.  
 

I just don’t think you’re going to entirely coach the bad habits out of him.  So accentuate the positives instead.  
 

I dunno.  They have a year to make this work.  I don’t want him trying to be a checkdown game manager because he’s afraid of throwing INTs.  I’ll take the INTs if it comes with a high yards per attempt and a better than 2:1 TD to INT ratio. 

[SoCalSkins]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

They still could.  They don't have a lot of cap room.  Ron would have to abandon his typical approach with the cap which is pay as you go.   He might.  Will see. 

I don’t think they will sacrifice the 3rd rd comp for Scherff. I think we go after players who were cut and wave 2 players not unrestricted FAs coming off expiring contracts. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

4 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’m not sure if @Skinsinparadise has posted it but listening to Sheehan’s podcast and Thom Lovero keeps saying if Ron wasn’t feeling pressured he would have just run it back with TH. Said they will try again for a QB but TH could start this year.
 

And then he couldn’t figure out why they might trade for Wentz AND pick a QB in the draft.  Called it desperate.

 

Well, no **** Sherlock they are desperate. They don’t have an NFL qualified starter on the roster, they can’t roll TH back out next year because that will lose the entire locker room, there isn’t an obvious solution in the draft, there are 10 other teams looking for a QB solution also AND the fans of the franchise are in revolt over the owner, so nobody is coming to the games, which makes for a crap game day experience.  Not to mention they play in a piece of crap stadium and have outdated facilities.  
 

Damn right they are desperate.  They are desperate to get a spark, maybe get 10-11 wins and start to build some momentum so they can get fans back into the stadium.  
 

But they can’t do that with TH and probably not Mitch, or Mariota, or Dalton and probably not a QB in the draft right away.

 

Btw, Gee wouldn’t it have been nice if Dan hadn’t wasted a first rounder in Haskins? 

 

Does this mean Sheehan is a believer in TH and thinks he could still be the QB of the future?

 

That's what that attitude implies.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think it was Breer, maybe somebody else who said Washington coaches are still going to have to get Wentz to understand when the play is dead and move to the checkdown (paraphrased) 

 

I keep coming back to, don’t do that.  That’s not who he is and he’s not good at it.  Sure, you don’t want him to YOLO it or “[screw] it I’m going deep” all the time.  But instead of trying to coach him out of something nobody has been able to do for 6 years, try to work with him to accentuate his escape routes and do things which are more natural to him.  
 

I just don’t think you’re going to entirely coach the bad habits out of him.  So accentuate the positives instead.  
 

I dunno.  They have a year to make this work.  I don’t want him trying to be a checkdown game manager because he’s afraid of throwing INTs.  I’ll take the INTs if it comes with a high yards per attempt and a better than 2:1 TD to INT ratio. 

 

I agree.  I think you can refine someone's decision making, but people are who they are, and it's rare to actually change that. 

 

Generally, leaning into what someone does and figuring out how to make that work is better than trying to overhaul.

[Voice_of_Reason]

15 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Does this mean Sheehan is a believer in TH and thinks he could still be the QB of the future?

 

That's what that attitude implies.

No.  But he hated the Wentz trade.  He’s been sour grapes about it from the beginning.  Of course he brings it back to Snyder fostering a terrible environment and nobody wants to come here.

 

I think he would have preferred Mitch + draft pick.  But he also campaigned for Sam Darnold.  And provides a full throated defense of Cousins at every opportunity.  So, I take his opinions on QB with a grain of salt

[Warhead36]

Sheehan is a fan and like most of the fans on this forum he has his biases and doesn't think objectively on a lot of things.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

No.  But he hated the Wentz trade.  He’s been sour grapes about it from the beginning.  Of course he brings it back to Snyder fostering a terrible environment and nobody wants to come here.

 

I think he would have preferred Mitch + draft pick.  But he also campaigned for Sam Darnold.  And provides a full throated defense of Cousins at every opportunity.  So, I take his opinions on QB with a grain of salt

 

Honestly think he's been sour grapes ever since Bruce/Cooley/Jay/his sources/etc were all nixed.  He's also been desperate to latch onto division rivals as "the up and coming model of a franchise".  Touted the Giants endlessly, turns out they are one big nepotistic mess (maybe they changed it, maybe not).  Then switched to the Eagles after forever when he finally was the last person off the Giants bandwagon.

[HigSkin]

16 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I'm not even sure how they would go about doing that.  

 

 

Could be a ploy by Atlanta maybe just to drive up the cost for the other 2 division teams (New Orleans/Carolina).  

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

I don’t think they will sacrifice the 3rd rd comp for Scherff. I think we go after players who were cut and wave 2 players not unrestricted FAs coming off expiring contracts. 

 

Agree. I don't think anyone here after watching their early approach to FA  thinks they are headed for a monster big FA signing to replace Scherff.  Before FA started, I among others especially liked the idea perhaps of a big signing of a dude like Wagner who was released where you don't lose the Scherff pick.  But that doesn't seem to be in the cards either.

 

Seems to be the mantra of the those who cover the team even before FA started was bargin bin shopping that likely starts next week versus this week.  Considering their cap situation and Rivera so far has had a pay as you go approach to the cap versus the Cerrato style of the fututre is now -- doesn't look likely they are going to make a big move.

 

The one wild card is Sheehan and Finlay have said they heard that this team is really struggiling selling season tickets and getting renewals and felt there is some consternation there about that.  If so, I wonder if Dan pushes for a splash move, regardless? 

 

I like the Wentz move more than most but its not hard to miss that its at best gotten a mixed reactiion from fans (at least judging by call in radio and twitter), and the media has not been their friend as for selling that move to say the least (unlike some of their prior QB moves over the years).  So while I like the Wentz move, I admit I really doubt he's going to move the needle as far as selling tickets right now. 

 

If Ron keeps Dan in the cage, I suspect they aren't going to do anything major in FA.  But who knows?  Will see.   If I recall they can get away with a 9-11 million type signing without losing the Scherff pick but I don't recall the math -- but I'd bet its not happening.

 

The weird thing is why haven't they released Landon Collins yet?

Edited March 16, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Mrshadow008]

40 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree. I don't think anyone here after watching their early approach to FA  thinks they are headed for a monster big FA signing to replace Scherff.  Before FA started, I among others especially liked the idea perhaps of a big signing of a dude like Wagner who was released where you don't lose the Scherff pick.  But that doesn't seem to be in the cards either.

 

Seems to be the mantra of the those who cover the team even before FA started was bargin bin shopping that likely starts next week versus this week.  Considering their cap situation and Rivera so far has had a pay as you go approach to the cap versus the Cerrato style of the fututre is now -- doesn't look likely they are going to make a big move.

 

The one wild card is Sheehan and Finlay have said they heard that this team is really struggiling selling season tickets and getting renewals and felt there is some consternation there about that.  If so, I wonder if Dan pushes for a splash move, regardless? 

 

I like the Wentz move more than most but its not hard to miss that its at best gotten a mixed reactiion from fans (at least judging by call in radio and twitter), and the media has not been their friend as for selling that move to say the least (unlike some of their prior QB moves over the years).  So while I like the Wentz move, I admit I really doubt he's going to move the needle as far as selling tickets right now. 

 

If Ron keeps Dan in the cage, I suspect they aren't going to do anything major in FA.  But who knows?  Will see.   If I recall they can get away with a 9-11 million type signing without losing the Scherff pick but I don't recall the math -- but I'd bet its not happening.

 

The weird thing is why haven't they released Landon Collins yet?

I gotta push back on the selling season tickets thing. Renewals yes probably. And some of that has to do with them changing the decision date on renewals by a couple months a know quite a few people were pissed about that. New sales they seem to be doing actually pretty well and I think they’d do even better if they actually advertised some of the new stuff that comes with buying season tickets instead of waiting until you’re in front of a sales person to hear about it. But I do think renewals aren’t doing too great. Like I said people are upset about the new renewal dates and some in the lower level have been upset about the new benefits for club level. My godbrother for example has 8 tickets in lower level endzone row 2 has had tickets for 10 years and was pissed that me and my brother were getting free parking and food on the club level considering we are first year ticket holders. He seriously considered not renewing and that was a part of it. 

[Tress Is The Way]

17 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Sounds like Watson actually initiated the discussion with them as well. Interesting.

I have no clue how the heck they would maneuver Matty Ice's cap hit. 48 million for one player is ridiculous.. talk about cap hell 

[88Comrade2000]

The only thing that will increase sales is consistent winning. Yearly playoff appearances and at least , a playoff win. There aren't too many players that would move the needle. I figure we need 3 straight years before you see any real uptick in sales. I don't think 2 years would do it.

 

 

[mistertim]

3 hours ago, ZarG3 said:

I have no clue how the heck they would maneuver Matty Ice's cap hit. 48 million for one player is ridiculous.. talk about cap hell 

 

This is one of the issues with manipulating the cap by pushing stuff out and making a ton of money due as signing bonus, etc. Eventually it comes back to you and you'll end up in a situation like this with an aging expensive guy who isn't going to take you to a Super Bowl and who you can't get rid of because it would absolutely murder your cap.

[CapsSkins]

When's the press conference?

[Dissident2]

17 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Sheehan is a fan and like most of the fans on this forum he has his biases and doesn't think objectively on a lot of things.

 

Sheehan actually thinks very objectively. By his own admission, he's much less of a fan these days than he's ever been. 

 

And he does not advocate for TH. He says Wentz is a "definite" upgrade. His ceiling for Heinicke has always been "a very good backup in the league." 

 

Loverro in that quote above was simply saying why bother with Wentz at this point when he's not the answer, even if he is an upgrade. Why not keep the money and picks and continue to build in other areas and take a chance in the draft. 

[Est.1974]

Looks like he’s back wearing #11 again.

[CapsSkins]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

Looks like he’s back wearing #11 again.

 

He prob told Cam Sims that they're not getting his contract done until he agrees to release #11.

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, CapsSkins said:

When's the press conference?

10.30am tomorrow 

[skinny21]

@Skinsinparadise I wonder if the hold up on Collins has to do with wanting to see how much space they’ll need (who they can sign) - ie whether to take the dead money hit this year to have him off the books next year, or spreading the dead cap hit.  It’s the only thing that I can think of anyway…

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

@Skinsinparadise I wonder if the hold up on Collins has to do with wanting to see how much space they’ll need (who they can sign) - ie whether to take the dead money hit this year to have him off the books next year, or spreading the dead cap hit.  It’s the only thing that I can think of anyway…

It may be that Collins gets to look first...and realise he hasn’t the market he thinks?

[SoCalSkins]

I highly doubt we draft a QB in first 2 days of the draft. Ron goes out of his way in this welcome to tell Carson he’s now somewhere where he’s wanted. All of the social media team calling him QB1 and putting him the center of all the headings across the web and social media. They are sending him a message that it’s completely his team. 
 

 

[wit33]

 

8 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

I highly doubt we draft a QB in first 2 days of the draft. Ron goes out of his way in this welcome to tell Carson he’s now somewhere where he’s wanted. All of the social media team calling him QB1 and putting him the center of all the headings across the web and social media. They are sending him a message that it’s completely his team. 
 

 

 

I tend to agree as more time passes since the move was made.
 

What message does it send Wentz who’ve you gave solid draft capital and are dedicating 13% of this years cap in a “win now” season. 
 

My guess is they decided to go all in on Wentz versus the Trubisky/Mariota paired with a rookie QB path. Wentz gets two years to earn his next big contract with Washington. 

[Darth Tater]

I suspect a good strategy would be to get two number 1s for 2023. If Wentz is a bust, you got draft capital to fix it. If Wentz shows something, you use those 1s to get him better support or, if you are still nervous about him, kick the can down the road another year. Wentz is not a bridge, he is either going to be the man for the next 4-5 years or he's gone after one or two.

[Est.1974]

I really think a vast number of fans underestimate the upgrade Wentz represents compared to what we have been used to for the last decade and then some.

 

Does that means he works. Not at all. However, I am feeling positive about the move.

 

Clearly the guy isn’t reported as being popular, however in interview he’s a strong family man, got a strong belief in faith which is his bag, and he appears to provide a lot of support in the community. On balance, I’m sure there are far worse characteristics in an individual. 
 

He seems a good fit for Turner. I hope we strengthen the receiving core with another threat and bulk up that OL.

[Skinsinparadise]

Catching up with another Eagles reporter, this time on Standig's podcast who said it was Wentz who wanted to leave.  The Eagles didn't want to see him go, there was sadness, no high fiving in that building when they traded him.

 

It's this narrative that drives me the most crazy about the local media and to some extent national media's slam of the deal. Their narrative is basically:

 

A.  the Eagles couldn't wait to get rid of him

B.  the Colts couldn't wait to get rid of him

C.  So we are supposed to believe that this dumpster fire of an organization got it right and they got it wrong?  Please...I then got a bridge in Brookyln to sell you.

 

Granted if true, that narrative sounds very convincing.  But its clearly not true.

 

Keim's podcast.

 

A.  Wentz is sort of a religious G rated kind of guy.  Shys away the night life/clubs

 

B.  Got along with the Indy players in the locker room aside from 2 players

 

C.  Philly locker room was more rowdy, with volatile type with of personalities

 

D.  This locker room is more mature/chill than the Philly locker room was so they think that should work well for Wentz