Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[DCSaints_fan]

Just now, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

And our response will be........

 

About as useful as Susan Collins?

I don't think there'll be a military response by the US.  But I wouldn't be surprised if Biden announces he's reconsidering giving Ukraine the F-16, and/or increasing the number of Abrams/Bradley's they're getting.

[tshile]

I’m guessing the lack of a US life being on the line means drones are open season 

[DCSaints_fan]

BTW the MQ-9 Reaper fly-away cost is something like $30 million.  This isn't a DJI quadcopter drone you buy off Amazon.

[Larry]

1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

And our response will be........

 

About as useful as Susan Collins?

 

Well, we're operating military reconnaissance assets over a sea that's pretty much the property of the Russians.  To try to surveil the assets which they are using to supply a "shooting war".  So that we can provide said reconnaissance to the army which Russia is fighting.   

 

I'd say that we should expect Russia to shoot down every one they can.  Budget for it.  

[CousinsCowgirl84]

1 hour ago, tshile said:

I’m guessing the lack of a US life being on the line means drones are open season 

I think if they shot it down it’d be different.

7 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Well, we're operating military reconnaissance assets over a sea that's pretty much the property of the Russians.  To try to surveil the assets which they are using to supply a "shooting war".  So that we can provide said reconnaissance to the army which Russia is fighting.   

 

I'd say that we should expect Russia to shoot down every one they can.  Budget for it.  

The Black Sea is as much international waters as the South China Sea is. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 hour ago, DCSaints_fan said:

I don't think there'll be a military response by the US.  But I wouldn't be surprised if Biden announces he's reconsidering giving Ukraine the F-16, and/or increasing the number of Abrams/Bradley's they're getting.

 

This wouldn't the action I'd pick but I would still be happy with this.  Do something with teeth.

 

5 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Well, we're operating military reconnaissance assets over a sea that's pretty much the property of the Russians.  To try to surveil the assets which they are using to supply a "shooting war".  So that we can provide said reconnaissance to the army which Russia is fighting.   

 

I'd say that we should expect Russia to shoot down every one they can.  Budget for it.  

 

I was under the impression that it was over international waters.  Has that changed?

 

I'd like us to say we will start enforcing a 1 mile radius around our aircraft for Russian aircraft using AWACS.

[Larry]

36 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

The Black Sea is as much international waters as the South China Sea is. 

 

31 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I was under the impression that it was over international waters.  Has that changed?

.

 

 

Yes it is.  

 

Which does not mean that people who are participating in a shooting war aren't allowed to shoot at each other.  

 

The Pacific was international waters during WW2.  The Japanese navy still shot at our ships anyway.  Including unarmed reconnaissance aircraft.  

[DCSaints_fan]

2 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

 

 

Yes it is.  

 

Which does not mean that people who are participating in a shooting war aren't allowed to shoot at each other.  

 

The Pacific was international waters during WW2.  The Japanese navy still shot at our ships anyway.  Including unarmed reconnaissance aircraft.  

Before we were formally at war?

 

This does have shades of the Atlantic in 1941.  There was effectively an undeclared naval war between the US and Germany, many months before Pearl Harbor.

[Wildbunny]

9 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

 

 

Yes it is.  

 

Which does not mean that people who are participating in a shooting war aren't allowed to shoot at each other.  

 

The Pacific was international waters during WW2.  The Japanese navy still shot at our ships anyway.  Including unarmed reconnaissance aircraft.  

USA are at war against Russia? Dang I missed something here!

 

Russians pilots are gamblers and like to do stupid stuff like that, last time they "mistakenly inadvertently" shot a missile at a drone or Brit plane and missed it. They also had some history about it with Turkey and lost a plane and pilot there. And Russia stayed mum after that by the way.

 

Still NATO has lots of countries that have access to the black sea, so Russians shouldn't consider this as their own propriety. HAving drones patrolling those lands is kinda normal considering the situation there.

 

Will this stuff trigger article 5 or engage USA in a war?

Obviously no.

 

But I can see the Russian being warned, behind the curtain, that those types of drones can be equipped with Air to Air missiles and from now and then will be equipped as such and that Russian pilots shouldn't gamble to much, because well, bugs can happen you know. It would be a shame if a russian pilot was shot by a Windows 95 drone...

 

They like to threaten and such, but they do not want to be engaged in a war with NATO by any means nowadays. Or they're completly foolish. (Well, they are already are, but that would be even worse then)

 

[China]

On 11/4/2022 at 7:51 PM, Gurgeh said:

 

 

Let's say the war stopped now, with each side keeping the territory it now holds. How long before Putin rebuilds his army and decides to grab the rest of "non-existent" Ukraine? Perhaps Moldova will be next, before it can join Nato and become a "threat." Perhaps it will be the rest of Georgia, finishing what Putin started in 2008, and scooping up many of the Russian "traitors" who have fled there to avoid his draft. Or maybe he decides to link up to Kaliningrad by rolling through the Baltic states, now that he sees all he has to do is wait until the West becomes bored and impatient and starts fretting over a sum of money that amounts to about 2% of the total US military budget.

 

So where does this end? A ceasefire that gets violated on a daily basis, but where that ceasefire line is remains to be seen, and as long as Putin is in charge, there'll be threats and trouble along it. The further east that line is, the better.

 

 

Moldova smashes pro-Moscow subversion ring

 

Moldovan police said Sunday they had arrested members of a network they suspected of being orchestrated by Moscow in a bid to destabilise the small ex-Soviet nation as an anti-government protest kicked off. 

 

After searches on Saturday night, 25 men were questioned and seven of them detained, police chief Viorel Cernauteanu told media.

 

An agent managed to infiltrate the group led by a Moldovan-Russian, he said, adding that the prosecution had recorded 10 hours of video and audio.  

 

"People came from Russia with a very specific training role," the official added.  

 

The Moldovan authorities said they acted after "receiving information on the organisation by Russian special services of destabilising actions on our territory via demonstrations".

 

The party of fugitive pro-Russian oligarch Ilhan Shor has again mobilised people in recent weeks against the pro-European government, amid heightened tensions between Moscow and Chisinau. 

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Larry]

1 hour ago, Wildbunny said:

USA are at war against Russia? Dang I missed something here!

Then you should start at the beginning of the thread. 
 

No we have not formally declared war on Russia. 
 

Russia has not formally declared war on Ukraine, either. Want to act shocked if the Ukrainians attack one of their resupply ships?  (Using targeting data which our unarmed drone was gathering?)

 

But we aren't exactly the neutral Red Cross, peacefully cruising by, as civilians. This was a military aircraft, on an intelligence gathering mission, in an active war where we are openly feeding said intelligence to one side in the war. 
 

And it was an unmanned aircraft. This isn't Pearl Harbor. They endangered not one single American life, just some money. 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

On 3/14/2023 at 4:04 PM, DCSaints_fan said:

I don't think there'll be a military response by the US.  But I wouldn't be surprised if Biden announces he's reconsidering giving Ukraine the F-16, and/or increasing the number of Abrams/Bradley's they're getting.

Seems like our reaction was a wisper. Can’t collect the drone. Russia gonna do it.

Edited March 15, 2023 by CousinsCowgirl84

[Gurgeh]

On 3/14/2023 at 10:44 PM, Wildbunny said:

USA are at war against Russia? Dang I missed something here!

 

Russians pilots are gamblers and like to do stupid stuff like that, last time they "mistakenly inadvertently" shot a missile at a drone or Brit plane and missed it. They also had some history about it with Turkey and lost a plane and pilot there. And Russia stayed mum after that by the way.

 

 

 

After the "accidental" firing of that missile the Brits let the Russians know that their unarmed reconnaissance aircraft might now be accompanied by definitely armed fighter escorts. There haven't been any more accidents since. I wouldn't be surprised if the Pentagon had made some similar warnings.

 

Hopefully they managed to hit the destruct button on the drone itself before it hit the water so the Russians (and the Iranians when the Russians hand it over) won't find too much out that they don't already know.

[Larry]

15 minutes ago, Gurgeh said:

Hopefully they managed to hit the destruct button on the drone itself before it hit the water so the Russians (and the Iranians when the Russians hand it over) won't find too much out that they don't already know.

 

I would tend to assume that the Chinese would be the high bidders on that one.  

 

Unless they already have it, which wouldn't surprise me.  

[The Sisko]

On 3/14/2023 at 8:01 PM, Larry said:

Then you should start at the beginning of the thread. 
 

No we have not formally declared war on Russia. 
 

Russia has not formally declared war on Ukraine, either. Want to act shocked if the Ukrainians attack one of their resupply ships?  (Using targeting data which our unarmed drone was gathering?)

 

But we aren't exactly the neutral Red Cross, peacefully cruising by, as civilians. This was a military aircraft, on an intelligence gathering mission, in an active war where we are openly feeding said intelligence to one side in the war. 
 

And it was an unmanned aircraft. This isn't Pearl Harbor. They endangered not one single American life, just some money. 

Not some money. A **** ton of money. If I were Biden, my immediate response would be that the UA would receive 100 ATACMS missiles for the lost drone. The second one would result in them getting 200, with any other shenanigans resulting in our consideration of any number of other weapons systems, including fighter jets. Anything else you want them armed with? Just keep ****ing around and find out Putler.

[Larry]

53 minutes ago, The Sisko said:

Not some money. A **** ton of money. If I were Biden, my immediate response would be that the UA would receive 100 ATACMS missiles for the lost drone. The second one would result in them getting 200, with any other shenanigans resulting in our consideration of any number of other weapons systems, including fighter jets. Anything else you want them armed with? Just keep ****ing around and find out Putler.

 

You and I seem to have differing opinions as to how much money is "A **** ton", in the context of the pentagon, and what we're giving to Ukraine already.  

 

But.  Opinions are opinions. 

 

And I'd approve of your response.  

 

Heck, there's certainly a part of me that would support the US announcing an "equal response" doctrine.  

 

Russia targets the Ukraine power grid.  Us does the same to the Moscow grid.  

 

They blow up a hospital?  Same.  

 

Apartment building?  Again.  

 

Let us know when you decide that targeting civilian infrastructure is unacceptable, Vlad.  

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

That Russia pilot is crazy. Risking his own life to mess around with a drone… also, Poland announced they are sending mig29 jets…

[PleaseBlitz]

I mean, **** every single russian participating in this war, but that’s pretty badass. 

[Gurgeh]

On 3/15/2023 at 11:14 PM, Larry said:

 

I would tend to assume that the Chinese would be the high bidders on that one.  

 

Unless they already have it, which wouldn't surprise me.  

 

Here's China's "independently developed" Wing Loong drone which looks completely unlike any other drone you may have seen.

 

 

[China]

Video appears to show Russian Wagner troops shooting their own comrade, shoving each other into enemy fire in chaotic trench battle

 

A solider with Russia's Wagner mercenary group appeared to shoot one of his own comrades in chaotic video of a trench battle in Ukraine.

 

The video, shared by Ukrainian government advisor Anton Gerashchenko on Tuesday, gives an aerial view of soldiers slowly advancing towards each other through trenches in a battlefield marked by explosions.

 

Gerashchenko said the footage came from Ukraine's 92nd brigade, which is fighting near the eastern city of Bakhmut, a center of months-long intense and bloody combat.

 

Gerashchenko quoted a soldier who sent him the video, saying it shows Ukrainian soldiers retaking a trench from Russian forces. It is not clear when it was filmed.

 

His post said the Russians were from the Wagner paramilitary group, and that Ukraine successfully pushed them from their positions.

 

At the beginning of the five-and-a-half-minute-long clip, the side identified as Ukrainian has soldiers in three of the four sections of the cross-shaped trench, with the Russian side on the left:

 

 

The Russians move slowly towards the waiting Ukrainians, and one retreats quickly after appearing to be shot. Another Russian does not move after that shooting, and was possibly killed.

 

A Russian solider who was still advancing down the trench then reaches the solider who pulled back, and appears to shoot him.

 

The seemingly wounded fighter is later seen crawling away.

 

A little later on, the two sides are taking cover while contesting control of the central area. On the Russian side, one of the soldiers appears to shove his comrades closer to the Ukrainians in an effort to get them to advance.

 

Click on the link for the full article and link to the video

[Riggo-toni]

 

 

[China]

Live Updates: International Criminal Court Issues Arrest Warrant for Putin

 

The International Criminal Court on Friday issued an arrest warrant for President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia for war crimes, saying he bore criminal responsibility for the abduction and deportation of Ukrainian children.

 

Ukrainian officials and human-rights groups hailed the warrant as an important step in holding Moscow to account for abuses during its yearlong war. Dmitri S. Peskov, the Kremlin spokesman, said Russia does not recognize the court and called its decision to issue warrants “null and void.”

 

A top E.U. official, Josep Borrell Fontelles, said in a tweet on Friday that the I.C.C.’s arrest warrant for Vladimir Putin represented “the start of the process of accountability,” adding, “There can be #noimpunity.”

 

Lawyers familiar with the I.C.C.'s case recently said they expected prosecutors to proceed with the arrest warrants because there was a strong trail of public evidence.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[88Comrade2000]

I think China will give Russia some arms.

[China]

44 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

I think China will give Russia some arms.

 

We'll see.  I don't think it would be wise on their part, but it's possible.  They might prefer to just seem friendly to Russia, all the while enjoying it as Russia weakens themselves, giving China an edge in their dealings.

 

Xi and Putin will meet and hold a news conference on Monday.

 

Mr. Xi is expected to make a state visit to Russia from Monday to Wednesday, China’s Foreign Ministry and the Kremlin said in statements. It will be his first visit to Russia since the country launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine more than a year ago.

 

Mr. Xi’s trip will be watched closely by leaders in the United States and Europe who are frustrated with China’s diplomatic and economic support for Russia.

 

In recent weeks, the Biden administration has warned that China is considering escalating its support for Russia by providing weapons for it to use in Ukraine, an accusation that Beijing has denied.

 

At the same time, China would seek to play a mediating role between Russia and Ukraine, he said.

 

“President Xi Jinping’s visit to Russia this time is also for peace,” Mr. Wang said when asked whether Mr. Xi would try to push Mr. Putin to seek a political settlement with Ukraine. “China’s proposition can be summed up in one sentence, which is to persuade peace and promote talks.”

 

It is unclear whether Mr. Xi will also meet or speak separately with President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine.

 

On Thursday, the foreign ministers of Ukraine and China spoke over the phone in a rare official contact.

 

Jake Sullivan, the White House national security adviser, said on Monday that the United States had been encouraging Mr. Xi to speak to Mr. Zelensky, in part to discourage China from supplying Russia with arms.

 

Click on the link for the full article