So David Ortiz Gets Voted Into The Hall Of Fame and Not Bonds Or Clemens?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

It truly is crazy to me that a bunch of nerd sports writers can just black ball some of the best players in history from the Hall of Fame. Talk about wielding power and making it all about yourself...

 

Being a nobody beat reporter for the Akron Star and you take it upon yourself to keep an all-time great out of the HOF. Pathetic. 

[PleaseBlitz]

1 hour ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

There have been plenty of negative consequences. People HATE Bonds and Clemens. Clearly. I don't believe they should be kept out of the Hall of Fame...that's my position. 

 

If I made the type of FU money that Bonds and Clemens made, I would not give one single **** about what people think about me.  And I'm a lot less antisocial than both of them. 

 

FWIW, I think your position is perfectly reasonable.  

 

Edit:  For context, Bond's career baseball earning, not including any endorsements or anything else, is $188MM (22nd all time).  Clemens made $150MM (50th all time).  If Satan appeared in front of me right now and said he'd give me $150MM but the catch was "baseball fans would hate me" I'd laugh because he could have had me for so much less. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by PleaseBlitz

[Spaceman Spiff]

8 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

If I made the type of FU money that Bonds and Clemens made, I would not give one single **** about what people think about me.  And I'm a lot less antisocial than both of them. 

 

FWIW, I think your position is perfectly reasonable.  

 

Edit:  For context, Bond's career baseball earning, not including any endorsements or anything else, is $188MM (22nd all time).  Clemens made $150MM (50th all time).  If Satan appeared in front of me right now and said he'd give me $150MM but the catch was "baseball fans would hate me" I'd laugh because he could have had me for so much less. 

Baseball fans don’t know who the **** you are to begin with. 

[PleaseBlitz]

4 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Baseball fans don’t know who the **** you are to begin with. 

 

They would if I made a deal with literally Satan and that was part of the deal?  I'm not religious, so I'm not super familiar with how analogies about religious bull**** work. 

 

Edit:  Mike Mussina should have gone in solely as a Yankee. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by PleaseBlitz

[tshile]

@Spaceman Spiff

my stance isn’t based on morals. The extent to which I care about professional athletes taking steroids, is that the practice finds it’s way to youth doing it. I hate that part. 
 

i otherwise don’t personally care either way. 
 

my stance is one of understanding the situation. Baseball decided to go hard on this. The poster boys from it are blackballed. Well, that makes sense. Rose is the casualty of going after gambling. Right? So it fits. 
 

i don’t think watching football makes me a hypocrite 
 

I personally don’t want them to make it cause I think they’re jerks and it’s hilarious. But that’s just me enjoying the situation. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by tshile

[TD_washingtonredskins]

15 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

If I made the type of FU money that Bonds and Clemens made, I would not give one single **** about what people think about me.  And I'm a lot less antisocial than both of them. 

 

FWIW, I think your position is perfectly reasonable.  

 

Edit:  For context, Bond's career baseball earning, not including any endorsements or anything else, is $188MM (22nd all time).  Clemens made $150MM (50th all time).  If Satan appeared in front of me right now and said he'd give me $150MM but the catch was "baseball fans would hate me" I'd laugh because he could have had me for so much less. 

That's fair...

 

These guys have egos is all I'm saying. I think many of them, despite what they say, would like to know that after they die their legacy lives on. I took my son to the HOF this summer and it was an awesome experience (1,000% recommend it, by the way...it's like stepping into the movie Field of Dreams when they go to that little town in Minnesota and look for Moonlight Graham...just awesome!). It tells the story of the history of the sport. I know that there's the museum where people can learn about Clemens and Bonds and ARod, but those guys belong in the area with the plaques. They just do. 

 

And back to my point, they are being punished whether we think they are or not because the perception is what matters to them. Their legacy is really all they care about because of their egos. I don't think they care nearly as much if they can buy 3 emus or 2 extra cheetahs to have running around their ranch because they've had FU money for a very long time. They care about being loved and being told how great they are. 

[bearrock]

19 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

That's fair...

 

These guys have egos is all I'm saying. I think many of them, despite what they say, would like to know that after they die their legacy lives on. I took my son to the HOF this summer and it was an awesome experience (1,000% recommend it, by the way...it's like stepping into the movie Field of Dreams when they go to that little town in Minnesota and look for Moonlight Graham...just awesome!). It tells the story of the history of the sport. I know that there's the museum where people can learn about Clemens and Bonds and ARod, but those guys belong in the area with the plaques. They just do. 

 

And back to my point, they are being punished whether we think they are or not because the perception is what matters to them. Their legacy is really all they care about because of their egos. I don't think they care nearly as much if they can buy 3 emus or 2 extra cheetahs to have running around their ranch because they've had FU money for a very long time. They care about being loved and being told how great they are. 

 

Then they shouldn't have messed with PEDs.  I would be fine with baseball putting an asterisk during the period and name it "When MLB Collectively Dropped the Ball on PED Era" and letting people in based on stats.  But they are essentially using the guy in front of me was speeding too defense.  They took a risk on banned substance.  They got caught and some didn't.   That's life.

[Kosher Ham]

Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, Rose, and McGuire should all be in the HOF. <--- PERIOD.  

 

Debating it over an oversight that the League made is unreasonable. They did what probably half the players in the league were doing is just the league and voters trying to save face. 

[CobraCommander]

[Ball Security]

1 hour ago, Kosher Ham said:

Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, Rose, and McGuire should all be in the HOF. <--- PERIOD.  

 

Debating it over an oversight that the League made is unreasonable. They did what probably half the players in the league were doing is just the league and voters trying to save face. 

Palmeiro? Sheffield?

Edited January 27, 2022 by Ball Security

[Spaceman Spiff]

25 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Palmeiro? Sheffield?

 

Yes and yes.

[bearrock]

2 hours ago, Kosher Ham said:

Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, Rose, and McGuire should all be in the HOF. <--- PERIOD.  

 

Debating it over an oversight that the League made is unreasonable. They did what probably half the players in the league were doing is just the league and voters trying to save face. 

 

Why is Rose included in the oversight by the League category?  Or do you just mean that the Hall should consider Rose's on-field performance and not the gambling stuff?

[PleaseBlitz]

11 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

Why is Rose included in the oversight by the League category?  Or do you just mean that the Hall should consider Rose's on-field performance and not the gambling stuff?

His gambling stuff was on-the-field. He bet on games he was literally managing. 

[bearrock]

10 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

His gambling stuff was on-the-field. He bet on games he was literally managing. 

 

Yeah, I know.  I guess maybe I should've said stats?  Main aim was just trying to get a clarification on why Rose was included with the PED users.

[Kosher Ham]

3 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

Yeah, I know.  I guess maybe I should've said stats?  Main aim was just trying to get a clarification on why Rose was included with the PED users.

 

Because before he was a manager and degenerate he was already worthy. I mean Lawrence Taylor is in the football HOF.

[Spaceman Spiff]

37 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

His gambling stuff was on-the-field. He bet on games he was literally managing. 

 

It wasn't about his gambling.

[PleaseBlitz]

2 hours ago, Kosher Ham said:

 

Because before he was a manager and degenerate he was already worthy. I mean Lawrence Taylor is in the football HOF.

Again, there is no disagreement that Rose or Bonds or the rest are worthy based on their accomplishments. The disagreement is whether you give the highest honor in the sport to someone who dishonored the sport. 

[tshile]

2 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

His gambling stuff was on-the-field. He bet on games he was literally managing. 

But didn’t he exclusively bet on his team to win?

 

i think there’s a huge, huge difference between a degenerate gambler betting on himself (or his team)

 

and someone who bets on the other team and then throwing games. 

[PleaseBlitz]

11 minutes ago, tshile said:

But didn’t he exclusively bet on his team to win?

 

i think there’s a huge, huge difference between a degenerate gambler betting on himself (or his team)

 

and someone who bets on the other team and then throwing games. 

That is true according to Pete Rose, degenerate gambler, convicted tax cheat, and guy that knows if he admitted otherwise, he’d definitely never get into the HOF. 

[tshile]

1 minute ago, PleaseBlitz said:

That is true according to Pete Rose, degenerate gambler, convicted tax cheat, and guy that knows if he admitted otherwise, he’d definitely never get into the HOF. 

I understand the point you are making here. Very well. 😂 

[TradeTheBeal!]

What happens on days when you DONT bet on your team to win?

[tshile]

2 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

What happens on days when you DONT bet on your team to win?

You took the over/under?

Edited January 28, 2022 by tshile

[PeterMP]

I do think there has to be some consideration that people that took steroids hurt other players, their earning, diminished their accomplishments, and ultimately their chances to make the HOF.

 

If not for Jose Canseco, in 1988 Mike Greenwell likely wins the AL MVP.  Winning the AL MVP in 1988 doesn't likely make Mike Greenwell a HOFer.  But it isn't a stretch to say that it would have probably impacted his life time earnings.

[Darrell Green Fan]

On 1/26/2022 at 5:53 PM, PleaseBlitz said:

 

If I made the type of FU money that Bonds and Clemens made, I would not give one single **** about what people think about me.  And I'm a lot less antisocial than both of them. 

 

FWIW, I think your position is perfectly reasonable.  

 

Edit:  For context, Bond's career baseball earning, not including any endorsements or anything else, is $188MM (22nd all time).  Clemens made $150MM (50th all time).  If Satan appeared in front of me right now and said he'd give me $150MM but the catch was "baseball fans would hate me" I'd laugh because he could have had me for so much less. 

 

I hate this argument. First off nobody is giving you $150 million, players earn that money for being the best in the world at their particular skill.  What they earned has zero to do with how players feel about being inducted into the Hall of Fame. And you better believe it matters to them. A lot. Sparky Anderson said it was a much bigger for him than winning a ring and we know how they feel about winning rings.  

 

By being hated so much Clemons and Bonds are now out of the HOF forever and that does matter to them.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Darrell Green Fan

[The Evil Genius]

Curious what if q here.

 

Could Bonds be resigned and then retire later on and restart the 10yr eligibility? 

 

I do think he would have hit 75% if given the 15 years that everyone had prior to 2014. 

 

As an aside, 23 people chose not to vote for Wille Mays, arguably baseballs greatest player ever, in 1979. 🤦‍♂️

Edited January 28, 2022 by The Evil Genius