The Official ES (or E...C) 2022 Free Agency Thread Signed G Andrew Norwell, Obada, Trai Turner...Goodbye Scherff, Kyle Allen, Tim Settle

[CommanderInTheRye]

 

The players slept well and dreamed peacefully last night and were in a state of bliss as their bellies were filled to overstuffing with greasy sausages and gooseberry pies and fricasseed lamb haunches and all manners of goodies, treats and delicacies that were theirs for the taking.  

 

For they knew that when they awakened it would be the first of many days of hard work and sacrifice as they worked towards fulfilling the great dream--- our inevitable 2022 championship title.

 

They were filled with confidence that all would soon be well, as it always is and as it has been forever in the sacred and blessed land of Snyder's triumphant Commanders.

 

A place where harmony and togetherness is the unwritten law of the land.

 

A place where everyone works together, for the greater good, and no one puts personal interest above the team.

 

And so, today as has happened before, and as it will continue for ever more.

 

 

The real work of this team begins in earnest…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The complete destruction of dreams…

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by CommanderInTheRye

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

18 minutes ago, spjunkies said:

Terry I get, but some of these other guys severely overrate themselves. 

 

Yep.  It's not like no player hits FA and every player is resigned.  It would be one thing if Payne was in the middle of his contract and felt it was unfair but he's about to hit FA, if he believes in himself he shouldn't have any issue with that, many players kill to hit FA.

 

With Terry from what i gathered he knows they want to bring him back and contract talks are in the offing so why risk getting hurt before that deal is locked in.

[Skinsinparadise]

Standig

 

 

[FootballZombie]

We don't really know what they are telling these guys behind closed doors, and its possible even w/ assurances guys don't feel comfortable waiting after what happened w/ Matt Io.

 

If we have no machinations to extend Payne dude should have been dealt before the draft. We all knew Terry was not gonna play a down w/o a new contract. Payne's situation aint that far removed, he has good money in his future and he is one year removed from it.

 

Payne opted for the super public display as well. He is making sure everyone knows the score.

Edited May 24, 2022 by FootballZombie

[Skinsinparadise]

My other thought with Payne is perhaps his contract isn't guaranteed so he can be cut and wouldn't get paid if that happened, if he got hurt, etc.  But looked that up, every cent is guaranteed when the option was picked up.

 

So for example Scherff played last year on a guaranteed contract and hit FA and got paid big time as have plenty of other players in the NFL.

 

Its possible that Standig is wrong and they are talking to Payne like they are with Terry and telling him they are going to extend him this summer and he won't hit FA.  No way to know. 

 

But if not, i wonder is some of the speculation that he'd want Jonathan Allen type of money might be right and if so perhaps he's frustrated that it looks like they value Allen ahead of him.  

 

 

This makes more sense to me below.  If I were Payne, like Scherff I wouldn't be frustrated with the prospect of hitting FA.  Instead I'd welcome it.

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[max21]

Paynes production really doesn’t even warrant the headache, if he wants to sit out then let him sit out 

[CommanderInTheRye]

2 hours ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

The players slept peacefully last night and were happy as their bellies were filled to overstuffing with greasy sausages and gooseberry pies and fricasseed lamb haunches and all manners of goodies, treats and delicacies that were theirs for the taking.  

 

For they new that when they awakened it would be the first of many days of hard work and sacrifice as they worked towards an inevitable title.

 

They were filled with confidence that all would be well as it always is and as it has been forever in the sacred and blessed land of the Commanders.

 

A place where harmony and togetherness is the law if the land.

 

A place where everyone works together for the greater good and no one puts their personal interest above the team.

 

And so as it has been before and as it will be ever more.

 

 

So it begins…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The dream of dreams…

 

 

EDIT: 

 

This was a bad post in retrospect. Too damn negative. Today should be a day of hope and after looking at some of the day 1 writeups on Wentz and a few other players there sure is plenty to be hopeful about.

 

To be honest Ithink that after watching cnn showing the madness of those poor innocent children in Texas who won't see tomorrow then coming here and finding out that Payne is having a pity party because he can't get a brand new contract and Chase and Terry didn't make appearances it kind of rubbed me sideways.

 

Just an old fart overeacting and embracing negativity.

 

My bad.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by CommanderInTheRye

[SkinsFTW]

3 hours ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

The players slept peacefully last night and were happy as their bellies were filled to overstuffing with greasy sausages and gooseberry pies and fricasseed lamb haunches and all manners of goodies, treats and delicacies that were theirs for the taking.  

 

For they new that when they awakened it would be the first of many days of hard work and sacrifice as they worked towards an inevitable title.

 

They were filled with confidence that all would be well as it always is and as it has been forever in the sacred and blessed land of the Commanders.

 

A place where harmony and togetherness is the law if the land.

 

A place where everyone works together for the greater good and no one puts their personal interest above the team.

 

And so as it has been before and as it will be ever more.

 

 

So it begins…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The dream of dreams…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It sounds better when you hear all that in the NFL films guy's voice

Edited May 25, 2022 by SkinsFTW

[CommanderInTheRye]

 

John Facenda, the bourbon voiced  announcer par excellence!

 

 

The Autumn Wind… (see next post by Duffy)

 

EDIT:

 

Rudyard Kipling’s If read by Facenda…

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by CommanderInTheRye

[duffy]

1 minute ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

John Facenda, the bourbon voiced  announcer par excellence!

https://youtu.be/Rh6E4Cks1W4

 

Yessirrrrrr!! 

[CommanderInTheRye]

11 minutes ago, duffy said:

https://youtu.be/Rh6E4Cks1W4

 

Yessirrrrrr!! 

 

 

We had a moment of Synchronicity Duffy.

 

We both thought of the famous Autumn Wind at just about the exact same time. I did it as an edit to my original post. lol

 

 

EDIT 2: I changed my Facenda vid to his rendition of the most famous written gift a father ever gave to his son, “If” by Kipling.

Edited May 25, 2022 by CommanderInTheRye

[duffy]

9 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

We had a moment of Synchronicity Duffy.

 

We both thought of the famous Autumn Wind at just about the exact same time. I did it as an edit to my original post. lol

Haha, Yes we did. I was struggling to find one that would actually play on this site. I gave up and just left it as a link lol. 

[skinsfan93]

I’m not too happy that Terry is sitting out and on top of it, he hasn’t made contact with Dotson. I understand he doesn’t want to get hurt during OTAs but cmon you’re a team leader and didn’t even called congratulating and welcoming Dotson to the team?

 

One difference between Terry and his contract situation and Allen’s contract situation is that Allen actually came to training camp. Terry not showing up for OTAs where there’s no contact, not good. My opinion on Terry is starting to change. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by skinsfan93

[Conn]

53 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

I’m not too happy that Terry is sitting out and on top of it, he hasn’t made contact with Dotson. I understand he doesn’t want to get hurt during OTAs but cmon you’re a team leader and didn’t even called congratulating and welcoming Dotson to the team?

 

One difference between Terry and his contract situation and Allen’s contract situation is that Allen actually came to training camp. Terry not showing up for OTAs where there’s no contact, not good. My opinion on Terry is starting to change. 

It is extremely normal for guys waiting on contracts (in the same offseason) to not attend OTA’s. They are voluntary in the first place obviously, but it’s a tried and true tactic whether we like it or not. Same with the Dotson stuff. You can’t play hardball while making it obvious that you plan to be there regardless, and I guarantee that’s what Terry’s agent is telling him. Agents are scum in general, but some of these players are lucky to even get to a second contract, never mind one that will lead to generational wealth. Even more so for a former 3rd round pick who really didn’t make huge bank off his rookie contract. Terry will get paid and then be right back to the leader and team player he’s always been. Anything between now and the contract signing is theater and if it moves you either way you’re a sucker imo. It says nothing about Terry except that he’s smart enough to go after what he’s worth in this market, and he’s got a shrewd agent. The billionaire overlords that rule this league depend on fans turning on the players like you’re talking about right now, to keep their leverage. I’d rather the players get their money, personally. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Conn

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, skinsfan93 said:

One difference between Terry and his contract situation and Allen’s contract situation is that Allen actually came to training camp. Terry not showing up for OTAs where there’s no contact, not good. My opinion on Terry is starting to change. 

 

I'm pretty sure Allen skipped OTAs last year and then got his new deal right b4 training camp, so he didn't need to skip it.

 

You are correct in the bit of disparity of leadership on display however, if Terry has not so much as contacted Dotson by now. The day after Jamin was drafted he was flown to DC and was physically spending time with both Allen and Young, going out to dinner w/ them among other things. Allen didn't have his new bag at that point. It does not take a new contract to reach out and say hi.

https://commanderswire.usatoday.com/2021/05/02/washington-1st-round-pick-jamin-davis-taken-to-dinner-by-a-pair-of-wft-stars-2021-nfl-draft-chase-young-jonathan-allen/

 

 

Terry has been better then that, basically the epitome of the ultimate boyscout, so hopefully this is the only time we see such a lapse from him. I don't expect him to do much of anything w/o a new deal, and rightfully so, but you can still do the little things.

Edited May 25, 2022 by FootballZombie

[Koolblue13]

Payne is ridiculously undervalued by fans, but he's definitely worth getting a sizable contract. He may not have the sack production that Allen has, but Allen doesn't have that without Payne. The fact that they are so close and passionate about playing for this team has to mean a lot. I get that they don't want to rework Wentz contract, so they can get out of it if it doesn't work and it's holding things up, but you gotta do it.

 

Y'all know I follow the Eagles too. Everyone is in their building excited to practice and play and meet the new guys. Vets are bringing the newbies to 76er games (or were) and hanging out building chemistry. Pay your studs who want to be here. Allen, Payne and Mathis has the potential to be absolute game wreckers, regardless of your DEs.

 

If we drafted Dotson and Mathis to let Terry and Payne walk, it will be a real deal breaker for me with this team. Rework Wentz and get them under contract. Solidify the team.

[KDawg]

I don’t have much of an opinion on any of the drama stuff. That’s what it is.

 

But as a coach you can usually tell how a season is going to go based on the vibe at practice. And we can’t know the vibe at practice as we weren’t there. But from the cheap seats it doesn’t look good.

 

But I’ve had teams where the star player is transferring (yes, it happens in HS all the time, too) because they think they can get more attention elsewhere and it looks bad to everyone on the outside but the actual practice flowed beautifully. 
 

We’ll see.

[Skinsinparadise]

Terry I am not worried about. I think they get it done.

 

I am not going to dive into the Payne stuff as a player much.  I never thought he was as good as Jonathan Allen as a player or as a leader and I know from threads in previous years there are some people who vehemently disagree with that and suggest that the point means you can't like Payne if so, etc.  But I don't see this as a binary, either or, conversation.  IMO he's a really good player.  And in retrospect, not sure why they need to be compared (I am guilty of that, too) but as for today i think the comps are relevant because of the money and what Allen got.  And if some of the speculation is true that Payne wants what Allen got, then its relevant from that perspective too.

 

I watched the two more closely than perhaps any other players on the team because I like to watch the D line and study their formations.  And I've posted a lot of those clips on the board over the years.  Both play 3 technique a lot.  Allen more so.  Allen plays typically on the right, typical weak side.  Payne plays typically on the left, typical strong side.  Both 2 gap some.  Both play 1 some, 2 some, 4, 5 some.   I've watch both them pass rush plenty and IMHO Allen is the more refined pass rusher and has more moves than Payne.  Payne when he's on is fun to watch but he seems to tire from my eyes and lose that consistency.  But I really like him as a player.  Would I give him though 18 million?  No way unless he has a breakthrough special level season. 

 

Talking pure money.  Whether Payne and his agent likes it or not, DT's who don't produce sacks typically don't get monster contracts these days.  Some exceptions, Vea would be an exception but Vea IMO is in a different tier and a pro bowler for a reason.  I've mentioned this before but I don't think I've ever been that blown away by a D lineman watching them live than Vea's performance against us in a game in Tampa.  He was destroying our interior where he looked like King Kong doing it.  He wasn't just 2 gapping to set up the LB but he was collapsing the interior pocket at the same time, just blowing the line apart and it was hard to miss.  We were lucky he was out that game in the playoffs.  And it doesn't surprise me that some teammates in Tampa said he was their best defender when he returned for that playoff run.   

Vita Vea is the Bucs’ most dominant player.

 

The 6-foot-4, 347-pound defensive tackle helped hold running back Ezekiel Elliott to 33 yards. But more impressively, he consistently pushed the pocket and forced quarterback Dak Prescott to check the football down or throw it away on critical downs.

Vea’s contribution is sometimes too subtle to be summarized.

He hits the center, guard or tackle like a freight train, moving them backward as if they were on rails.

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/bucs/2021/09/13/forget-the-stats-vita-vea-is-the-bucs-most-dominant-player/ 

 

 

As far as Payne goes, IMO his durability is one of his super powers.  As much as Vea is a monster that's hard to miss when he's on the field, he misses too many games.

For now to me the best comp to Payne is Dalvin Tomlinson.   Their stats are similar.  PFF has Tomlinson typically with the better run stopping grade, sacks almost identical, Payne with more pressures.  Tomlinson got 10.5 million in his contract.  I've watched Tomlinson a few times closely too when I was watching our run game.  Tomlinson isn't Vea level where he just destroys the blocks in front of him.  But he fills in his gap well and has strong hands.  Payne IMO, ditto. 

 

To me Payne isn't an 18 million a year player.  Sounds like according to some beat guys asking around the league, the league might not see Payne right now as an 18 million a year guy either.  Some saying they actually might not get a third round comp pick for him because he won't get that kind of money.

 

Maybe IMO 12-14 million for Payne.  But i don't think he's Jonathan Allen caliber and IMO the topic is relevant now if its in the context of what he gets paid.  And lol, that doesn't mean i hate Payne.   And usually posts like this illicit a post about all that Payne does well and how we miss the subtle ways he impacts the game.   Look I agree with that.  And I humbily will say that I go out of my way to spend extra time on Game Pass to watch the D line so I have spent hours watching Payne where I don't feel like I need a lecture about what he brings to the team.  I think he brings plenty.  But you can't have a zillion players on your team getting paid 18 plus million.

 

I think I was one of the highest on the board on Brandon Scherff.  Yet, I didn't want to keep him at 16 million plus a season.  I am high enough on Payne, some are even higher than's cool, but I don't want him at 18 million plus.   

Edited May 25, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[CommanderInTheRye]

9 hours ago, skinsfan93 said:

I’m not too happy that Terry is sitting out and on top of it, he hasn’t made contact with Dotson. I understand he doesn’t want to get hurt during OTAs but cmon you’re a team leader and didn’t even called congratulating and welcoming Dotson to the team?

 

One difference between Terry and his contract situation and Allen’s contract situation is that Allen actually came to training camp. Terry not showing up for OTAs where there’s no contact, not good. My opinion on Terry is starting to change. 

 

 

I think you make a couple of really good points here.

 

It's one thing for McLaurin, the player, to make a business decision and not participate in otas. To be honest in his position, at his age,I would have done the same.

 

It is quite another thing, for our clear offensive leader,  both in essence, and in fact (as an elected team captain), to not have given, at minimum, a brief welcome to the team text or instagram or tweet or tik tok or whatever you youngins do nowadays to avoid actually talking to someone on the phone lol.

 

Seriously, this is exactly what good leaders do. The simple but critically important "little things" that have a huge effect on percieved personal worth and acceptance and that foster a feeling of unity between players.

 

It may just be an oversight on Terry's part but it does give me ever so brief pause at the thought that he may be more frustrated, with his situation, than any of us know.

[FLSkinz83]

Has anyone heard what type of contract Payne wants?     Allen got 4 years, 72 mil.   I wouldn't give Payne anything close to that.

[Chris 44]

14 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Yep.  It's not like no player hits FA and every player is resigned.  It would be one thing if Payne was in the middle of his contract and felt it was unfair but he's about to hit FA, if he believes in himself he shouldn't have any issue with that, many players kill to hit FA.

 

With Terry from what i gathered he knows they want to bring him back and contract talks are in the offing so why risk getting hurt before that deal is locked in.

Makes losing Settle all that worse.

[Skinsinparadise]

52 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

Has anyone heard what type of contract Payne wants?     Allen got 4 years, 72 mil.   I wouldn't give Payne anything close to that.

 

Nothing concrete.  A bunch of beat guys speculated Payne wants around the same as Allen but it feels like pure speculation versus anything concrete.

 

I get the impression and it take a lot of extrapolation on my end to form that impression so I wouldn't bet my house on it but taking tidbits from Standig and others and combining them, I think it would be.  

 

A.  they asked Payne's agent what it would take for a contract.  They didn't love the number they got.

B.  they put out feelers weeks before the draft as for trading him.  And didn't get an offer they felt was attractive 

C.  They decided to play things out.  Let Payne hit FA and perhaps he doesn't get the number his agent wants and they end up keeping him for a price they deem fair and if not they might get a comp pick back the next year.

 

This could be dead wrong but this is my best guess now adding crumbs together.

[Chris 44]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Nothing concrete.  A bunch of beat guys speculated Payne wants around the same as Allen but it feels like pure speculation versus anything concrete.

 

I get the impression and it take a lot of extrapolation on my end to form that impression so I wouldn't bet my house on it but taking tidbits from Standig and others and combining them, I think it would be.  

 

A.  they asked Payne's agent what it would take for a contract.  They didn't love the number they got.

B.  they put out feelers weeks before the draft as for trading him.  And didn't get an offer they felt was attractive 

C.  They decided to play things out.  Let Payne hit FA and perhaps he doesn't get the number his agent wants and they end up keeping him for a price they deem fair and if not they might get a comp pick back the next year.

 

This could be dead wrong but this is my best guess now adding crumbs together.

Not a fan of option C (though I realize why it happens and it happens a lot) just makes me feel that the player then comes back a little less that pleased with the team and is not fully committed. Or takes a contract with another team for about the same money because he feels that team "appreciates" him more. Either way obviously less than ideal.

[CommanderInTheRye]

Fact facing time.

 

We've got four young first round d-linemen whose rookie contracts will be expiring in the next couple of years.

 

Economics dictates that we can only keep two or perhaps three of them-- at the most. 

 

And as we all learned in school-- economics is all about pie charts or in this case the distribution of a very limited supply of two or maybe three slices of what I'll call grandma's hot juicy apple pie...

 

 

 

 

Trust me you want a slice of grandma's  apple pie.

 

 

Now we already gave our first heaping helping of pie to Jon Allen.

 

Fine by me-- team leader, disciplined guy, self motivated and focused, no known off field issues, had his best year AFTER getting paid. Good decision. No complaints.

 

But now we're left with three other players drooling over their own juicy hot hunk of pie and only a slice or perhaos two left.

 

Somebody's not getting pie.

 

And nobody likes having an empty plate when everyone else is getting filled to bellyache level by grandma...

 

 

 

 

"Where's my pie at!!??"

 

 

So naturally everbody starts side eyeing everybody else because they know whoever grabs that next hunk of pie is set...after that who knows?

 

Weird things start to happen then.

 

Players begin to distrust each other.

 

Things get bitterly cold.

 

Helicopters crash and the pilot starts shooting at a dog running through the snow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Eventually the players begin to wonder if their friend is secretly their enemy.

 

Or worst of all secretly a...thing...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So the pie doling needs to be done carefully and fairly or all hell could break loose and your left with a team that destroys itself and in the end even the few survivors aren't sure if they can trust each other or fall asleep...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then it's take a drink time and fade to black. Last man awake wins or does he...

 

and we don't want that kind of ending.

 

No, no, no. We can't go out like that!

 

Now if I'm doling out slices to our d-line the next one sure aint going to Payne.

 

Right now I'm thinking Sweat gets his hunk as early as possible (yeah Terry comes first but if I could I'd do both of them this off season I would).

 

Bottom line: We MUST lock up our ONLY consistent edge rusher while we can!!!

 

Chase otoh gets this season to grow, learn, recover and PROVE whether or not he will ever be the consistently dominant player we drafted him second overall to be.

 

If he does it he earns a big old slab of pie with some ice cream on top. If not, I consider trading him next year or the following season while he still has significant value.

 

As for Daron, just tell him grandma's bakery is closed down for health violations and is no longer taking orders.

 

 

 

"No pie for you!"

 

(From the classic Seinfeld episode, "The Pie Nazi")

Edited May 25, 2022 by CommanderInTheRye

[duffy]

7 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

Helicopters start shooting at dogs running through the snow. 

 

10 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

As for Daron, just tell him grandma's bakery is closed down for health violations and is no longer taking orders.

 

This is where I'm at. I would love to see Daron ball out this season, but he just doesn't come off as a special player to me. Couple that with him seemingly not entirely happy right now, then I'm fine with getting a 3rd rounder and letting him walk away. Allen is locked in. Hopefully, Mathis is legit. But let's lock down at least one of the DE's now.