The Official ES (or E...C) 2022 Free Agency Thread Signed G Andrew Norwell, Obada, Trai Turner...Goodbye Scherff, Kyle Allen, Tim Settle

[bearrock]

My guess is that Terry's contract extension hasn't gained much traction because it makes more sense for Terry to wait than to extend.  Even saddled with three years of pretty substandard QB play, he produced at a high level.  He is going into his last year on the rookie contract with most likely the best QB he's had a chance to play with so far (even last year's Wentz is heads and shoulders above Smith, Haskins, Allen, Heineke).  After that it's either resign after value increase due to career year, outright free agency, or essentially two years of fully guaranteed contract at almost highest WR money (factoring in the 20% bump the second tag year, two years of WR non-exclusive franchise tag is already 20 mil per year).  Extension now would hedge against injury, but he could easily think hitting free agency after this year or at the latest by 28 after a year or more with quality QB play would be more beneficial.

[Zim489]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Ron's not perfect.  No coach or GM is.  But overall IMO he's done a really good job.

I just dont get this. I think the FO as a whole under Ron has been bad. Maybe not as bad as Bruce but the roster management has been an S Show. I think you are too easily combining the the Non Football management with football management. 

 

Ron is a beacon on a hill in terms of being a great man working for one of the worst human beings in sports. But from purely a football perspective hes an average to decent football coach that straddles the line of being too old school along with being a bad FO head constructing a bad FO.

 

Like theres been nothing great on the football side with tons of questionable ones. 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Zim489

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, CommDownMan said:

 

So I agree the waiting has impacted things, but didn't we HAVE to wait on a McClaurin contract until the new league year in March 16th?  I believe it's after 3 seasons, which wasn't official until then.

 

Godwin got 20mill per before FA, Adams was March 17th signing, Hill a few days after.  

 

As much as we're annoyed it's still not progressing, McClaurin's agent shouldn't have considered in March.  Considering many of the arguments comparing to Brown, but also just how much this team values him, he should wait to earn that extra.  I'd be very curious if they were even willing to meet at the table at that point.  (But it really should be started at this point, I can't imagine they still won't sit, unless Terry doesn't have interest in returning...)

 

 

 

I believe though not 100% sure they could have negotiated with him at any point in the off season, as for whether it had to wait until March 17th for the deal to become official like trades, maybe, not sure? But regardless even if they did it in March like the Panthers did, that would have likely been better. 

 

I don't get the impression whether from the national or local reporters that Terry's side has been slow playing it, all indications seems to be that this FO has slow played it.  Breer who is plugged in flat out suggested this team has slow played it.  The WP, Keim among others said the same

 

Rivera flat out said early in the off season that the plan is to negotiate after the draft.

 

Breer pretty much has Rivera's back on everything, as do I.  I typically look for any crease in any argument to back Rivera's point of view and it takes a lot for me to slam him -- but on this subject yeah i don't have much room to do that aside from one thing, and that thing was mentioned as a potential reason from Breer.  That is, the owner is who possibly delayed this for money reasons.

 

Standig, Phillips have also speculated about Dan having this team on a budget.  Grant and Danny talked to Mike Lombardi about it and Lombardi had an explanation for why owners like Dan who rely on the team primarily for their personal finances have to wait until the Spring for a cash infusion from the NFL.  I forgot how he explained it but it was something about there is a dry spell as for collecting revenue at the start of the year.   

 

There was also an explanation that for restructuring contracts or doing extensions they often require signing bonuses to make the contracts cap friendly over time but in turn they also require an immediate infusion of cash for that contract.  Also if I understood him correctly, when you have guaranteed money in a contract, you need to reserve that money somehow, it needs to be parked in a way that's overseen by the NFL.

 

All of this made me think that Bruce's insistence (with the exception of the Alex Smith contract) to typically to have no more than 2 years of guaranteed money might have been in part to allow Dan to have more cash on hand.  I am no expert on finances but that's what it sounded like to me listening to the narratives.

 

So my point is its possible that the directive to wait on Terry's contract and the tradition of hey we do our contracts before camp might be a directive from Dan.   But like Breer said, its a risky move.  But we got one of the few owners who isn't successful with their side business projects and who might be much cash poor than the typical NFL owner for that reason. 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I just dont get this. I think the FO as a whole under Ron has been bad. Maybe not as bad as Bruce but the roster management has been an S Show. I think you are too easily combining the the Non Football management with football management. 

 

Ron is a beacon on a hill in terms of being a great man working for one of the worst human beings in sports. But from purely a football perspective hes an average to decent football coach that straddles the line of being too old school along with being a bad FO head constructing a bad FO.

 

Like theres been nothing great on the football side with tons of questionable ones. 

 

I debated this with you a million times, I know you think he sucks.  But I'd be wasting my time debating this with you. 

 

I am as hardcore that he's done a good job and as hardcore that they would be an even bigger mess if they let him go -- then you are hardcore that he has done a bad job and Dan would have no problem finding a better replacement.  We are on different planets on this one. 

[Zim489]

I could understand an argument for decent because the team isn’t bad. I can’t fathom argue for being good to great. He’s sub 500 and we don’t look to be above 500 for his tenure after this season. 
 

I don’t care about the mess around him. He has full control of the roster and everything football. Strictly talking football it’s no better than decent 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Zim489

[RWJ]

3 hours ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

I wonder what we could get for Daron in a trade this off season?

 

Is Payne on an expiring deal worth a 3rd and something else, a straight up 2nd, or maybe even a bit more if we can get a couple of teans bidding?

 

If so, I'd rather just bite the bullet and trade him now rather than play the--- "we can resign him but if we don't at least we'll get a late third two years down the road err uhm... that is as long as we don't sign someone too expensive that off season" game.

 

 

My thoughts:  They will let Payne play out his contract.  He will hit FA and will either sign a team cap friendly deal with us or will sign with another team and according to how big that deal is we will get compensation for that deal.  Hey, it could be anywhere from a 3rd to a 5th, IMO depending on how well he plays.  I expect Payne plays well and sticks it out for his first big deal in FA.  The cherry on top.  We signed Mathis and I expect better play out of Mathis this year in his opportunities that Payne has every shown.  JMO.   

[Skinsinparadise]

13 hours ago, Zim489 said:

I could understand an argument for decent because the team isn’t bad. I can’t fathom argue for being good to great. He’s sub 500 and we don’t look to be above 500 for his tenure after this season. 
 

I don’t care about the mess around him. He has full control of the roster and everything football. Strictly talking football it’s no better than decent 

 

I guess Ron inherited the best 3-13 team in NFL history?   7 wins the next season and did it with scrub Qb play that he inherited.   They were 5-1 with half way decent Qb play (not even great) that season. 

 

They were poised to make the playoffs last year but got hit with COVID at the wrong time, according to PFF metrics had the 4th worst injury situation in the league and had the hardest schedule.

 

If they win 7 games THIS season, I'd have an issue with it.  But not the first two years.  And I like their off season thus far, especially if they cap it off with 2-3 more FA signings.  But the proof will be in the pudding, will see.

 

Even if I felt as negative as you about Ron, my faith that some hot shot HC or GM would want to come to this dumpster fire after them firing one of the more likeable figures in the NFL is like a 1 out of 10.  Seems like you believe slam dunk Dan can pull it off even though you don't like Dan.

 

I'll also add when hasn't a good chunk of this board not had a beef with whatever coaching staff we've had.  Then later we find out how Dan impinged on the process and said coach deserved to be graded on a curve to some extent.  As for this time is different and this time Dan's crap isn't impinging on the current staff -- that's also old hat.  That's been the narrative pretty much every time in real time.  Then later we find out that it wasn't really so.  Rinse and repeat. 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, RWJ said:

My thoughts:  They will let Payne play out his contract.  He will hit FA and will either sign a team cap friendly deal with us or will sign with another team and according to how big that deal is we will get compensation for that deal.  Hey, it could be anywhere from a 3rd to a 5th, IMO depending on how well he plays.  I expect Payne plays well and sticks it out for his first big deal in FA.  The cherry on top.  We signed Mathis and I expect better play out of Mathis this year in his opportunities that Payne has every shown.  JMO.   

 

I know its sort of sacriledge with some to say this about Payne but i think he's a good to very good player but he's not IMO a great one.  Some on this board for years would argue Payne > Allen or at a minimum = Allen.  IMHO I don't think so.  Allen IMO is the better player and better leader and more valuable asset.  Payne hasn't even sniffed 5th alternate status for a pro bowl let alone being even mentioned he should be a pro bowler.  You never see him in any top 100 rated players lists.  I think he rarely even cracks the top 15 list as for best tackles no matter who is ranking them.    His run stopping grades have been from good to pedestrian as for PFF -- and its not like they are biased against a player like him, his old teammate Dalvin Tolinson has scored better on that front.  And PFF used to love Snacks as a run stuffer.   Don't get me wrong Payne is a good to very good run stuffer but he's not elite IMO on that front or really anything. 

 

I think he's a good run stuffer, good pass rusher at times very good.  He's a special athlete for his size but not a special player.  That's my long winded way of saying that unless Payne has this breakthrough season in his 5th year that people keep saying is coming before every season -- I don't see why he'd get paid that much more than another previous Alabama DT who also majors in run stuffing and minors in pass rush and that is Dalvin Tomlinson.  And I don't see how Payne would get Jonathan Allen kind of money.

 

So if by chance Payne might be asking for Jonathan Allen kind of money as some beat guys have speculated (comes off as them guessing versus knowing this) then I'd let him hit FA because i think he will find no one is paying him anywhere near that kind of money.  And they can likely get him cheaper than what he might want.  The only thing that might impinge on that is Payne having a breakthrough year but if that happens -- its a good problem to have.  So it would be a win win either way.

 

I was listening to Greg Cosell this morning, who in the past was a big Payne guy.  He thought Mathis would be a more than fine replacement for Payne if Payne left. 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Not that it matters but Cynthia Frelund, the NFL Network anayltics person, who in the past hasn't been that high on this team gave the team some love today on 106.7, then ditto on the NFL Network where she said this team is a fringe playoff team.  The NFL Network crew though didn't have this team making the playoffs and had the Eagles winning the division and Dallas as the wild card.

 

Granted I haven't watched the NFL Network everyday but when I do I noticed Deangelo Hall who used to give this team love, is giving none now.  Wonder if it wasn't

 an amicable departure?  I''ve seen now twice him having no objection to the Commanders being predicted out of the playoffs and when asked to comment he mentioned the Saints one time being snubbed and I am forgetting but he mentioned another team a different time.  Neither time he was hyping the Commanders.

 

[sebestian]

10 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Well, in fairness, we spent

- the first year standing still, no steps taken in any direction.  (1999 with Norv)

- the second year sprinting up a hill to capture the flag, except the flag was on a different hill (the 2000 spending spree of the 1993 pro-bowl team). Lots of steps, wrong direction. 

- the third year turning around and identifying where the flag was (2001 with Marty).  At least got turned around and took a few steps in the right direction before....

- the fourth and fifth year sprinting in the opposite direction chasing a shiny object, once again on the wrong hill (Spurrier 2002-2003)

- the sixth through 9th years making some progress towards the hill with Gibbs (2004 - 2007).  Took some steps in the right direction.  

- the 10th and 11th years rolling down the hill away from the prize (Zorn 2008-2009). Not even steps in the wrong direction here, just a rolling mess. 

- the 12th - 13th years (first 2 years of Shanahan, 2010-2011) trying to stand back up, but keep falling down again.

- the 14th year SPRINTING up the RIGHT hill and getting almost to the top (2012) Thank you Griffin's magical year. 

- the 15th year pointing a bazooka at our legs and blowing them off (2013) (and it all came crashing down.)

- the 16th - 21st years meandering around a meadow with no particular goal, stopping to smell the flowers, getting stung in the nose by a bee.  (Jay/Bruce ineptitude of 2014-2019

- the 22nd year trying to find the direction and actually finding a compass and pointing in the right direction and looking longingly at the right direction (but not really taking a step yet) (2020, first year of Ron)

- the 23rd year, being so full of ourselves that we figured out the direction, we took a step and tripped over a tree root and suffered a hip subluxation.  

 

So here we are in year 24, and while we've taken the first step a few times before, it's always been followed by a million steps in the wrong direction.

 

So we try again.  

 

 

 

 

No BS.  I think Gruden was worse then Zorn.  Zorn was clueless so its not his fault.  Gruden was smug and thought he could coach.  I'm assuming the number offers he turned down to be o-cord with whoever must be indicative of his past head coaching tenure.  Honestly, why us, what did we do, seriously what did we do to deserve this.  Lord help us!!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn9E5i7l-Eg

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Not that it matters but Cynthia Frelund, the NFL Network anayltics person, who in the past hasn't been that high on this team gave the team some love today on 106.7, then ditto on the NFL Network where she said this team is a fringe playoff team.  The NFL Network crew though didn't have this team making the playoffs and had the Eagles winning the division and Dallas as the wild card.

 

Granted I haven't watched the NFL Network everyday but when I do I noticed Deangelo Hall who used to give this team love, is giving none now.  Wonder if it wasn't

 an amicable departure?  I''ve seen now twice him having no objection to the Commanders being predicted out of the playoffs and when asked to comment he mentioned the Saints one time being snubbed and I am forgetting but he mentioned another team a different time.  Neither time he was hyping the Commanders.

 

 

I think he is just being honest.

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Not that it matters but Cynthia Frelund, the NFL Network anayltics person, who in the past hasn't been that high on this team gave the team some love today on 106.7, then ditto on the NFL Network where she said this team is a fringe playoff team.  The NFL Network crew though didn't have this team making the playoffs and had the Eagles winning the division and Dallas as the wild card.

 

Granted I haven't watched the NFL Network everyday but when I do I noticed Deangelo Hall who used to give this team love, is giving none now.  Wonder if it wasn't

 an amicable departure?  I''ve seen now twice him having no objection to the Commanders being predicted out of the playoffs and when asked to comment he mentioned the Saints one time being snubbed and I am forgetting but he mentioned another team a different time.  Neither time he was hyping the Commanders.

 

That's ok.  I always like being the underdog.  It should give a team more inspiration to play harder and better.  Motivation!  I think this team is going surprise this year, barring any major injuries and be in the playoffs.  JMO.    

[skinny21]

3 hours ago, Zim489 said:

I could understand an argument for decent because the team isn’t bad. I can’t fathom argue for being good to great. He’s sub 500 and we don’t look to be above 500 for his tenure after this season. 
 

I don’t care about the mess around him. He has full control of the roster and everything football. Strictly talking football it’s no better than decent 

I think this is a fair enough take.  I’m of the opinion that with decent or better qb play the past 2 years, we’d have pretty easily been above .500.  So to me, it comes down to how much someone wants to ding him for not getting that level of qb play.

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, a long leash as it were, so I’ve been pretty forgiving considering the obstacles he’s faced.  The qb carousel/injuries, the secondary not jelling early last year after covid restrictions, suffering a ton of injuries, etc.  

 

And on the flip side, I’ve liked the fight the team has shown, the culture, how the depth has stepped up.  Remains to be seen how things go, but the qb room is better, the rb room has some nice talent, TEs 1/2 are solid, the trenches are good and there’s a lot of potential in the receivers.  I’m not as confident in the back 7 on D, but there’s some quality and potential there.  Feels like one of the better teams we’ve fielded in some time.

[Forever A Redskin]

Don't really understand the Ron hate.

 

He's changed the culture while simultaneously fighting cancer and with an organization constantly under fire.

 

Don't agree with horrible roster management either. We've been one of the better drafting teams and the few free agent moves we've made have hit big for the most part.

 

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt because he said himself when he was hired that it takes 3 to 5 years to change a culture of a team, and has publicly stated he expects a big jump in year 3.

 

If we bomb this year, then I can understand some backlash... But as of right now, we should feel lucky to have Ron as a coach.

 

People are really up-in-arms over them letting Settle and Matt Io walk I guess? Or maybe people assume "same old Redskins" because Terry isn't signed yet (even though it's been repeatedly pointed out the plan has always been to sign him around Training camp just like Allen)? 

 

It's not the teams fault the Jaguars reset the WR market. If we had signed Terry to a deal well under market value he would've been holding out a couple years into it for being underpaid anyway. People act like we could've resigned him for pennies if we acted sooner and "it must mean we're gonna franchise him twice and let him walk!"

 

What's even funnier is that fans of this team should know what horrible roster management looks like by now, and this sure as hell isn't it.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Forever A Redskin

[Simmsy]

Turning this **** off.

[Est.1974]

Shouldn’t be that difficult.

 

are we willing to meet Terry’s demands, yes/no

does Terry want a LTD here, yes/no

 

make a forward thinking decision.

[MrJL]

12 hours ago, Zim489 said:

I just dont get this. I think the FO as a whole under Ron has been bad. Maybe not as bad as Bruce but the roster management has been an S Show. I think you are too easily combining the the Non Football management with football management. 

 

Ron is a beacon on a hill in terms of being a great man working for one of the worst human beings in sports. But from purely a football perspective hes an average to decent football coach that straddles the line of being too old school along with being a bad FO head constructing a bad FO.

 

Like theres been nothing great on the football side with tons of questionable ones. 

 

what have they failed to do under him that wasn't affected by stuff from before him, such as the search for a QB

[Anselmheifer]

I really don’t want Bradbury on the Eagles. Their off-season has been too good. 
 

At what point do you guys think we will start to see some releases by other teams?

[Burgold]

4 hours ago, MrJL said:

 

what have they failed to do under him that wasn't affected by stuff from before him, such as the search for a QB

I don't really agree with Rivera's front office being as awful as the poster you quoted said, but it's hard to ignore the fact that he came in three years ago with a weak linebacking corp and problems at safety. Three years later, we still have questions at linebacker and safety. Strangely, these are two positions that are supposed to be relatively easy to fix.

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

I really don’t want Bradbury on the Eagles. Their off-season has been too good. 
 

At what point do you guys think we will start to see some releases by other teams?

Teams that are close to being over the cap will start releasing players as they have to sign their draft picks soon.  As others have mentioned. we'll probably sign Terry sometime the 1st week of June.  Before that time or right around the time, just before or right after we sign Terry, we will sign a LB.  I don't see us signing Bradbury unless he takes a massive pay cut 1 year deal.  Hopefully, no NFC East team signs him, unless it's us but the odds are super slim, I think.  I'm with you.

[Jericho]

2 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

I really don’t want Bradbury on the Eagles. Their off-season has been too good. 
 

At what point do you guys think we will start to see some releases by other teams?

 

I think you are seeing it. The list of releases usually isn't long or generally noteworthy. You have a few bigger names, like Bradbury. They may continue for another week or so and then it starts to dry up. I wouldn't expect too much.

[kingdaddy]

17 hours ago, bearrock said:

My guess is that Terry's contract extension hasn't gained much traction because it makes more sense for Terry to wait than to extend.  Even saddled with three years of pretty substandard QB play, he produced at a high level.  He is going into his last year on the rookie contract with most likely the best QB he's had a chance to play with so far (even last year's Wentz is heads and shoulders above Smith, Haskins, Allen, Heineke).  After that it's either resign after value increase due to career year, outright free agency, or essentially two years of fully guaranteed contract at almost highest WR money (factoring in the 20% bump the second tag year, two years of WR non-exclusive franchise tag is already 20 mil per year).  Extension now would hedge against injury, but he could easily think hitting free agency after this year or at the latest by 28 after a year or more with quality QB play would be more beneficial.

Lots of people are saying or expecting Wentz to be a huge upgrade over the other QB's Terry has played with in the NFL here in Washington. I hope you are right about this but if you look at Wentz' last 5 games of 2021 he threw just 6 TD passes with 2 interceptions while averaging 121 yards passing. In Indy he was very much a game manager probably due to the fact that they ran the ball so well but he didn't exactly turn any of their WR's into pro bowlers. 

Michael Pittman did have 88 catches for over 1000 yards in 17 games, hopefully get at least that much production from Terry. 

It's exciting to hear that this rookie TE we drafted may be a draft steal because Wentz has used TE's hard in his career. Maybe this kid helps open things up for Terry too?

[skinny21]

58 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I don't really agree with Rivera's front office being as awful as the poster you quoted said, but it's hard to ignore the fact that he came in three years ago with a weak linebacking corp and problems at safety. Three years later, we still have questions at linebacker and safety. Strangely, these are two positions that are supposed to be relatively easy to fix.

I’m bummed they didn’t land a backer in the draft, though I understand 1) you can only go by your board, and 2) if they had landed one, either that guy or Jamin Davis likely spend most of their time on the bench. It’s interesting that they essentially replaced a limited, but knowledgeable/experienced Bostic with a high upside guy lacking in experience.  Anyway, totally agree there are still questions at the position.  On the bright side, if you consider Mayo and Bostic as roughly equivelant, than I’d say the staff has overall (since 2020) made strides - adding athleticism in Davis and Hudson.  I suppose you could argue they might have taken a step back from last year though, unless Collins returns (in his pseudo linebacker role) or they find a good replacement (Curl/Butler/Davis/Hudson?).

 

I’m hoping they move Toney back - he’s got the athleticism, but with Hudson/Mayo ahead of him they shouldn’t have to rush him.

 

At safety, I’ll take Curl/McCain/Butler over Curl/Collins (as a SS) any day though.  And that’s forgetting the credit they should get for bringing in Kam to begin with.  Wish we had Everett in the fold still, but that was out of their hands.  

 

Like I said, still questions for sure, so I’m not disagreeing with you… but you can argue they’ve at least made some progress (and added potential) at both spots.

 

Edited May 12, 2022 by skinny21

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Anselmheifer]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Sounds like not a lot of room for FA next year minus a Wentz restructure. Any idea how this compares to other teams in the conference?

[FootballZombie]

2 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Sounds like not a lot of room for FA next year minus a Wentz restructure. Any idea how this compares to other teams in the conference?

 

Middle of the pack as it stands. You can use the tabs to view diff years

 

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/