Could Gibson be more like Deebo Samuel under the right coordinator?

[PartyPosse]

2 hours ago, method man said:

Has anyone who has suggested taking a “bellcow back” actually looked at the RBs in this draft? There is no one receiving a first round grade, meaning the good ones will likely get overdrafted. 
 

The smart thing to do is to get a proven FA on the cheap. There will be a ton available this offseason and they can go sign a Rashaad Penny, Tevin Coleman, James Connor, Wayne Gallman type to be a 3rd back. Patterson is practice squad material and be should not be on the roster next year

 

 

Why do we need to draft one in the first? There are a ton of guys in the mid rounds like Breece Hall and Haskins for the taking.

[Est.1974]

Fumbling issues aside….sadly we can’t set them aside….they are going to screw his own career over if they continue on the same path.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Gibson has been carrying this offense.  He’s way better than a JaG.

 

Now, Curtis Samuels could be used more as a Deebo type…but that groin is soooooo tricky!

[Dan T.]

Really, a "bellcow back" for most teams is a vestige of the past.  Nobody runs a back 25 times a game any more.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Dan T.

[wit33]

20 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Gibson has been carrying this offense.  He’s way better than a JaG.

 

Now, Curtis Samuels could be used more as a Deebo type…but that groin is soooooo tricky!

Run game desperately needs to threaten teams on the edges much more, a few Samuel jet sweeps 🧹 a game might do the trick. 

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, Dan T. said:

Really, a "bellcow back" for most teams is a vestige of the past.  Nobody runs a back 25 times a game any more.

We don't need a bellcow to run it 25 times a game. But you want that power element to compliment Gibson's speed/slashing style of running.

 

Really unless you have a Derrick Henry you want two good backs. Even Zeke and Dalvin Cook have Pollard and Alexander Mattison who are really good backups.

[Conn]

No, imo. And I don’t say it to demean Gibson (although he is overhyped as a talent imo), Deebo is just so damn good. Gibson doesn’t have the polished receiving skills (despite being a “WR” in college), he doesn’t have nearly as much functional athleticism and agility despite being a size/speed freak in terms of measurables, and he doesn’t have the same burning speed around the corner that Deebo does. The dude moves like someone who weighs 175 lbs. 

[petey hodge]

So everyone’s cool with his fumbling?  It’s just the “Antonio Tax” that comes with the yards production that we gotta pay?

 

how the F does the coaching staph fix this!?!  Benching didn’t work.

 

[Conn]

14 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

James Washington is the person I would peg as being our Deebo Samuel and not Gibson. 

 

Not trying to beat a dead horse here as I've mentioned this before in another thread, but that's who I would target and he would come at a bargain price.

 

I've been right about Tee Higgins, Justin Herbert among others and feel pretty strongly about Washington. 

James Washington is a talented, underrated, and underutilized player who would be a really good 4th WR in FA who could contribute more than your average depth guy in an offense that correctly utilizes 3-4 WRs. I agree with you there. He might even be better than that, though I think you could do better at WR2 and I wouldn’t play him in the slot. So I think his ideal role would be as the top backup on the outside who sees the field often as the 4th WR. 

 

All that said, nothing about his skill-set has anything to do with Deebo though, he could not be used in that role whatsoever. Really weird name to bring into the conversation given how different they are. 

[Warhead36]

9 minutes ago, petey hodge said:

So everyone’s cool with his fumbling?  It’s just the “Antonio Tax” that comes with the yards production that we gotta pay?

 

how the F does the coaching staph fix this!?!  Benching didn’t work.

Nobody is cool with his fumbling. It obviously goes without saying that it needs to be addressed.

[petey hodge]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Nobody is cool with his fumbling. It obviously goes without saying that it needs to be addressed.

 

Thanks man.  Because, I'm still devastated by his bad habit that sucked the life outta us yesterday... and this thread seems to suggest more creative ways to get the ball into his shaky, uncertain hand. (not hands, intentionally) 

[Dan T.]

This is a good a place as any to note that getting J.D. McKissick back will cure a lot of the ills of this offense.

[DiscoBob]

The Gibson = JAG take is reactionary.  That being said Gibson isn't some transcendent talent, and fumbling issues will kill your career.

 

My frustration with his is that he seems to miss holes, and doesn't seem to have the wiggle to squeeze through tiny holes.  He does seems to usually get decent yards after contact.  

[skinny21]

I have a theory that as Gibson has been challenged to be more physical (which is a little strange to me given his after contact numbers), he’s leaning forward a bit more on his runs.  The result is he breaks arms tackles, but lower body contact brings him down easier.  That forward lean would also affect his lateral agility, which makes it look like he’s got “heavy feet”, and his speed.  I could see it messing with his vision as well - as he’s encouraged to be more of a north-south runner and lean into contact, it’s harder to avoid crashing into the backs of his olinemen.  That’s not to say ‘power runners’ can’t look fast, or can’t be light on their feet, but I could see his inexperience in that style causing him problems.  

 

Others have mentioned a similarity in running style between him and Bell, and I can see it, but I question if the running scheme and what’s being emphasized to him maybe doesn’t fit that style particularly (or vice versa).

[Chris 44]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Nobody is cool with his fumbling. It obviously goes without saying that it needs to be addressed.

It almost seems like he just doesn't quite get the fumbling issue, he was pulled out of the last game he fumbled in for a long period of time but when he came back in he still carried the ball like a loaf of bread.

[Conn]

I don’t really see the Bell comparison other than a slightly upright lean maybe—Bell at his peak was ALL patience and vision. I’d say most people would list those as being areas that Gibson could work on. Bell had almost a supernatural level of patience and precognition as he waited for the hole he wanted and then hit the burst, with the ability to string together moves at the second level. Not to mention his receiving ability out of the backfield was some of the best in recent memory. I don’t see a clean comp there at all—I think because he and his agent made some poor decisions and he basically took a shovel to his own career, people forget just how special and unique he was at his peak. No RB is really doing right now what Bell was doing, in terms of his specific skill-set. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by ConnSKINS26

[Dan T.]

The lesson of Tiki Barber is always instructive.  His first couple years he was one of the most fumble-prone running backs in the league.  Prior to the 2004 season, he worked all offseason specifically to eliminate the problem.  He focused on increasing upper body strength and adapted his unusual style of carrying the football, held up high and tucked into his armpit:

 

 

His concerted problem-solving effort produced results. He was able to dramatically reduce his fumbles without compromising his production.

[Fan since a Fetus]

Antonio Gibson is no Joe Montana, that’s for sure and I think that is something we can all agree on

[Chump Bailey]

2 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

James Washington is a talented, underrated, and underutilized player who would be a really good 4th WR in FA who could contribute more than your average depth guy in an offense that correctly utilizes 3-4 WRs. I agree with you there. He might even be better than that, though I think you could do better at WR2 and I wouldn’t play him in the slot. So I think his ideal role would be as the top backup on the outside who sees the field often as the 4th WR. 

 

All that said, nothing about his skill-set has anything to do with Deebo though, he could not be used in that role whatsoever. Really weird name to bring into the conversation given how different they are. 

 

Not trying to be adversarial but the only thing weird is your perspective. Deebo and James Washington are very similar players.

[Inigo Montoya]

I dont think the A Gibson commentary is reactionary. I think we over inflate him. Totally agree he's a benefactor of volume and our O Line wearing teams down and thus making his job easier.

 

Watch the same runs with even McKissic in there, he has so much more burst. It's obvious watching it all year. I remember the Dallas game last year where Gibson went off, but even thinking back on that, its almost all phenomenal blocking. 

A true bell cow HAS to hit the hole, fall forward and run through contact. He doesnt do it, has to be perfect blocking and thats almost never the case. 

Our offense is a **** show. Could be QB, Playcalling, WRs, and any combination thereof... but one thing I know for sure, I am not keeping Gibson past his rookie contract 

[SKiNz Jus 2 sick]

16 hours ago, Capsman said:

Yup.  He’s actually not that fast.  I was surprised given the rep after the draft.  Doesn’t have game breaking ability, not sure I every remember him taking it to the house or breaking off a 40 yard run.  Maybe once?  Vision on the first cut is ok but I almost never see him make someone miss at the second level. 

He had that very impressive 70+yard screen catch and Run vs the Bill's 

[skinsfan93]

I wrote in the draft thread that we need to draft a running back. It is not reactionary because of yesterday but face it, he just doesn’t know the small nuances of playing running back. He is a weapon but we need someone who can take 20-25 carries and get us the tough yards when we need it. Think about Alfred, he always seemed to get 2-3 yards instead of getting caught in the backfield or at the line. He always fell forward. Antonio is too upright at the point of contact so he gets pushed backward. 
 

Im not saying we need to draft someone in the first round but it would be nice to have a big back who can run between the tackles. He doesn’t have to be able to take it to the house on any given carry but someone reliable and doesn’t get nicked up throughout the season. Gibson is big and has good straight line speed but seems to get dinged up often and can’t hit the hole fast enough. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by skinsfan93

[FootballZombie]

3 hours ago, petey hodge said:

how the F does the coaching staph fix this!?!  Benching didn’t work.

 

Experience

 

We picked up a guy with minimal rushing experience and low touches in general thru college, then chose to make him an in-between the tackles high volume plow horse. Your not gonna iron out all the kinks very quickly. Your even taking away a lot of prac reps b/c of the damage we put on him on gameday.

 

Like vision and balance, proper ball control is something he will have to keep learning to improve on.