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The Official QB Thread- The Time is Howell! Do we have a QB1? Talking About QBs NOT on the Roster May be Ban Worthy. Move Forward Fromm the Past


Koolblue13

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1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Ok, so why is Miami bailing on him then?

 

The two teams I know the best outside of this team are the Dolphins and the Giants.  Family-location reasons.  Not saying I am an expert on the Dolphins but I pay more attention to them than most teams.  I've watched most of the Dolphins games but not all.  But I've seen plenty of Tua.  The good news about Tua is last Sunday was one of his best games IMO.  the first drive against Jacksonville was the best I've seen him play in Miami -- he was gutsy and decisive.

 

A close friend of mine is a big Dolphins friend likes to tell me (before last week) he'd trade Tua for Heinicke.  He might not feel that way now though after the KC game.😀

 

The issue with Tua is he's played super conservative. And when he tries to throw deep it looks like he strains to do it.  He was 31st in YPA last year.  He's improved marginally on that this year.  There have been articles about Dolphins coaches wanted him to let loose.  There was a famous exchange with Fitz mic'd up encouraging Tua to take more chances.  Fitz's famous game last year verus the Raiders was with Tua struggiling and Fitz came in and rallied the Dolphins.  

 

Tua doesn't seem to play with much confidence or at least that's how it looks on TV.   Then you had his injury history from college, and him already getting banged up in the pros.

 

I wouldn't hate them trading for Tua.  In theory i like the idea of trading for a young QB with talent.  I wouldn't be excited about it either.  If you forced me to make a call, I'd pass on him. 

 

When I've watched him, I haven't disliked his play like I have with for example Rosen and Darnold -- also two young Qbs that their teams bailed on. I didn't want either guy.  I am not opposed to Tua the way I was on Darnold and Rosen.   But at the same time, it has been hard for me to watch Tua and leave with the impression that he will ever be a top QB.  His ceiling doesn't seem that high.  I felt differently watching him in college.   Remembering the Alabama player, makes me want him. I've seen him play live, too.   Watching him play in Miami, makes me not want him.

 

But yeah in short, none of the Dolphin fans I know, including my parents who are big Dolphin fans, want Tua.  I wouldn't say he's as far gone with their fan base as Haskins was with ours but he's not embraced as the answer.

 

https://www.theringer.com/2020/12/27/22201360/tua-tagovailoa-benched-ryan-fitzpatrick-dolphins-raiders

Tagovailoa has been far too conservative of a passer. Per PFF, Tagovailoa has thrown the ball 20-plus yards downfield on just 9.1 percent of his dropbacks, 29th out of 38 qualified passers. While an offense doesn’t need to have deep passes to be successful (the Saints and Titans have been just fine without them), on a night when the Dolphins desperately needed any big play, Tagovailoa did not go deep once:

 

pass_chart_TAG620344_2020_REG_16_1609043

Fitzpatrick is exactly the opposite kind of player. He throws for more yards per game, more yards per attempt, has a higher touchdown rate … and also throws significantly more interceptions. This season he’s thrown eight picks, making his interception rate (3.1 percent entering Saturday) more than triple Tua’s. But when Fitzpatrick is in, the Dolphins’ offense moves the ball better—as evidenced by the team’s frantic comeback against the Raiders. And sometimes, that can be more important than an increased risk of a turnover.

It’s easy to think the worst thing a quarterback can do is throw interceptions, but that isn’t really true. Often the worst quarterbacks aren’t the players who constantly chuck it to the defense (though that certainly isn’t good), but the ones who are so risk-averse that they fail to make any big plays at all. At best, these types of conservative game managers can have a career like Alex Smith’s. For example, Jameis Winston’s infamous 33-touchdown, 30-interception season last year totalled to an adjusted net yards per attempt of 6.15. Tagovailoa’s ANY/A stands at 5.72. This isn’t a fair comparison—Tagovailoa is a rookie, Winston was a fifth-year veteran in 2019—but it demonstrates a provocative idea: a team would rather have an interception-throwing lunatic at quarterback than Tagovailoa right now. And that’s exactly why the Dolphins have benched Tua twice.

And though it often gets overlooked, Fitzpatrick’s propensity to get the ball out to receivers in less-than-ideal situations also means he takes fewer sacks than Tagovailoa. He entered Saturday with a sack rate of 5.2 percent, while Tua’s stood at 7.1 percent. Tagovailoa took three sacks against the Raiders, while Fitzpatrick took zero.

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Got beat to the punch on that article above. 😀  One thing I'll say is they did go after Stafford and offered a first and third for him, Rivera acknowledged it.  Also Mike Silver who Rivera is close to said they considered some of the top of the line QBs including Watson before the scandal broke.

 

I am not so sure they are going to be cheap this time.  They were cheap as for not being willing to trade up in the draft.

 

For a team bleeding fans, an impatient owner and judging by comments here and twitter even fans don't seem to be giving Rivera much benefit of the doubt and time -- I really doubt their solution ends up Trubisky or Mariotta.   Talk about underwhelming.  

 

And I guess Tannehill will be considered a previous bust ala Rosen and Darnold whose career was revived in Tenneesse no matter what the facts were -- but I guess if it helps make the story sexier and more fun that it went down that way then so be it.  It's weird narrative for me having seen a lot on Tannehill in Miami.   Tannehill was a decent QB in Miami but don't let that get in the way of a good story.   Making a QB who was decent, really good is commendable.  But its a different narrative that reviving guys who have been actual busts.

 

If I had to go with a reclamation project, I'd go Mariota but that's not who I want to ride with next year.

 

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2 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

There’s not gonna be a fanbase period if that article is true. 
 

even if it’s bull****, the idea of a Mitchell Trubisky is unfathomable 

 

I said this in another thread, I like Finlay but I don't fuly trust his "sources" based on the past.  Keim to me is the closest thing to gospel and I've gotten the impression from him in the off season that he expects them to be aggressive.  It didn't feel like someone like Trubisky.  If Keim changes his tune on it, that will get me attention.  But right now, I think they will go hard after someone who can make an impact and yeah actually sell some tickets, too as a bonus.  Now whether they are successful at it is another story.  

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2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I said this in another thread, I like Finlay but I don't fuly trust his "sources" based on the past.  Keim to me is the closest thing to gospel and I've gotten the impression from him in the off season that he expects them to be aggressive.  It didn't feel like someone like Trubisky.  If Keim changes his tune on it, that will get me attention.  But right now, I think they will go hard after someone who can make an impact and yeah actually sell some tickets, too as a bonus.  Now whether they are successful at it is another story.  

Agree on JP. I like him but his sources aren’t great. Most big team stories are broken by national outlets. 
 

I honestly think the Tu’a thing has legs. But still, that was sobering to read. 

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13 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

There’s not gonna be a fanbase period if that article is true. 
 

even if it’s bull****, the idea of a Mitchell Trubisky is unfathomable 

 

That's another reason why I don't think they do it.  They are the lowest draw in the NFL right now, with bleeding TV ratings.    Outside of Dan Snyder, the biggest punchline about this team over decades is about how inept they are at QB.  I just can't see them bringing a QB who was a punchline elsewhere and sell him as the solution. 

5 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:


 

I honestly think the Tu’a thing has legs. But still, that was sobering to read. 

 

I don't.  I'd be shocked unless its a Dan move.  Craig Hoffman didn't have a lot of sources but I know he was friendly with some on the scouting staff based on a few things that he discussed.  And as I mentioned Keim has been the most accurate from what I observed.  Both Hoffman and Keim in the off season converged on the same point which is they know from talking to people in that FO, they weren't high on Tua in the draft.  I've mentioned this before on the draft thread.

 

So you add that and then the WP, Finlay, Standig and Keim all shooting it down.

 

I'd be absolutely stunned.  It would be egg on Keim's face in particular.  

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8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That's another reason why I don't think they do it.  They are the lowest draw in the NFL right now, with bleeding TV ratings.    Outside of Dan Snyder, the biggest punchline about this team over decades is about how inept they are at QB.  I just can't see them bringing a QB who was a punchline elsewhere and sell him as the solution. 

 

I don't.  I'd be shocked unless its a Dan move.  Craig Hoffman didn't have a lot of sources but I know he was friendly with some on the scouting staff based on a few things that he discussed.  And as I mentioned Keim has been the most accurate from what I observed.  Both Hoffman and Keim in the off season converged on the same point which is they know from talking to people in that FO, they weren't high on Tua in the draft.  I've mentioned this before on the draft thread.

 

So you add that and then the WP, Finlay, Standig and Keim all shooting it down.

 

I'd be absolutely stunned.  It would be egg on Keim's face in particular.  

McClain has already reported Watson is likely headed to Miami. I can’t imagine Miami would do this without assurance Watson can play immediately and in that case, there’s no way they keep Tu’a around. I have a theory that there’s always a little truth in every sports rumor so I can’t imagine someone pulled WFT out of their ass. Somebody in Ashburn has interest but we just don’t know the degree yet. 
 

Since the Tu’a deal is contingent on another deal (with a ton of moving parts) getting agreed to, I can see why WFT would deny interest until they know for sure everything is going smooth between Houston, Miami, and the league. 

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2 hours ago, skins island connection said:

 

 You really think so? { not trying to be smug, just asking }.

 

Yes, he is he is very accurate mobile and has a strong arm everything you need in a QB if you check how he plays he progresses through his reads quickly enough and because hes so dynamic a clever play caller will have a field day with him at helm. That being said he can't keep his u know what in his pants so doesn't matter how good he is on the field.

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Can we please stop talking about Watson, Wilson, and Rodgers?

 

None of them are coming here.

 

Watson and Wilson both have no trade clauses, so any trade has to get the ok from them. Neither of them are going to want to come here.

 

Rodgers doesn't have a no trade clause, but GB isn't going to trade him to another NFC team. And besides that, Rodgers seems like the kind of guy who would have a temper tantrum if he got traded to a team he didn't want to play for and would retire or just refuse to play.

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2 hours ago, mistertim said:

...

Rodgers doesn't have a no trade clause, but GB isn't going to trade him to another NFC team. And besides that, Rodgers seems like the kind of guy who would have a temper tantrum if he got traded to a team he didn't want to play for and would retire or just refuse to play.

I can't imagine State Farm running Rodgers ads at every commercial break if he played for WFT, especially with the ongoing ethical revelations.  His brand is way to valuable to be associated with this mess.

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The thing I am most afraid of at QB is a Chicago Bears like offseason where you try to get your guy, but have to eventually settle to get who you can get.

 

Sure we can chase after some of the better options, but if we can not present at least a semi-appealing destination, and they want nothing to do with us, your pretty much left picking thru the Andy Dalton's and Trubiskys of the world since you have to put something on the field and there is no guarantee you can get a guy on draft day.

 

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8 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

McClain has already reported Watson is likely headed to Miami. I can’t imagine Miami would do this without assurance Watson can play immediately and in that case, there’s no way they keep Tu’a around. I have a theory that there’s always a little truth in every sports rumor so I can’t imagine someone pulled WFT out of their ass. Somebody in Ashburn has interest but we just don’t know the degree yet. 
 

Since the Tu’a deal is contingent on another deal (with a ton of moving parts) getting agreed to, I can see why WFT would deny interest until they know for sure everything is going smooth between Houston, Miami, and the league. 

 

They've been plenty of false rumors about WFT being interested in players.  It became almost a joke over the years including this last off season.  You name the QB, Trubisky, Darnold, there were rumors about internest in all of them last off season.  I recall the Romo for Kirk rumor.   Heck Rappoport actually announced they actually traded Kirk on draft day to Cleveland and then had to backpeddle.

 

Where there is smoke, there doesn't have to be fire when it comes to trade rumors.  You got false leaks.  You got teams wanting to look like their player is hot in demand and have multiple suitors, agents like to do the same, etc.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2696037-kirk-cousins-tony-romo-subject-of-3-team-cowboys-49ers-redskins-trade-rumor

Kirk Cousins, Tony Romo Subject of 3-Team Cowboys, 49ers, Redskins Trade Rumor

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8 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

 

Since the Tu’a deal is contingent on another deal (with a ton of moving parts) getting agreed to, I can see why WFT would deny interest until they know for sure everything is going smooth between Houston, Miami, and the league. 

 

The main reason why I don't think they aren't interested isn't the hot denials.  But its a player just by chance discussed before by Keim and Hoffman who both said talking to scouts there, they weren't into Tua.  They didn't like him.

 

Keim is usually not that level wrong, he's been wrong about a few things over the year but its rare.  Hoffman had a short run where he had a good relationship with some scouts there before that draft and said no about Tua, they weren't into him.  Conversely, Keim among others said heck yeah they would take Haskins before that draft.  Ditto Payne and a bunch of prospects that ended up being true.  They don't lay their reputaion on the line much about prospects but when they do its tough for me to recall a situation where they ended by absolutely dead wrong.

 

That's why like I said if this happens, there will be egg on their faces.  Is it possible, yep.  Anything is.  But if I had $1000 to spare on this and could bet on it.  I'd withouit hesitation bet they won't trade for Tua.   But will see?  :ols:   As for someone there liking Tua, I wouldn't put it past Dan, he's a big name, Alabama, etc.

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57 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

The thing I am most afraid of at QB is a Chicago Bears like offseason where you try to get your guy, but have to eventually settle to get who you can get.

 

Sure we can chase after some of the better options, but if we can not present at least a semi-appealing destination, and they want nothing to do with us, your pretty much left picking thru the Andy Dalton's and Trubiskys of the world since you have to put something on the field and there is no guarantee you can get a guy on draft day.

 

Agree. There is very little appeal at the moment around the WFT. We will have to succumb to some form of desperation and/or vast overpay via trade to get someone of quality.

 

Tua looks like one of the ‘better’ options to me.

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A slept on this some.  Count me in the group that doesn't want Tua.  It's not a hard no from me as it was with Rosen and Darnold though.   Loved the college player.  But the pro player to me has looked too underwhelming for me to dig.  And I can't get his pro games out of my head, I've watched too many of them.  If I ran with emotion I'd go with Tua but my head doesn't let me. :ols:  I've seen him play live with Alabama multiple times, and it was fun.  But his pro games have been mostly painful watches.   Plodding play. 

 

I know some cite his numbers, TD-INT ratio is good.  He also has bad numbers, YPA, being almost dead last.  QBR is near the bottom, etc.  So I can run with numbers any which way.  It's just that watching him, I don't get the impression that he's a QB that makes big plays.  It's somewhat of a dink and dunk approach and he seems to lack that killer instinct.  Fitzpatrick's legend in Miami is partly driven by how much better he's looked with that same supporting cast.   

 

The kicker to me is I wonder about his arm strength, it looks like he has to put all of his body into it when he needs to put some velocity on the ball.   I wonder if that is the main discrepancy between the player in Alabama versus the pros -- which is post hip surgery?  Your power can come in part from flexing your hips.  I don't recall having big concerns about Tua's arm strength at Alabama though some scouts pointed to it before the draft but I do have concerns about it now.

 

You add that with his smallish frame and injury history.  I'd pass.  I genuinely do not think they are interested.  I don't buy the rumor.  But with Dan anything is possible so you never know.  I even recall making a joke years back on a thread about Dan would dig Tua because you got Hawaii-Alabama-the big family story.  For a dude who craves a social life with his players, the Tua family could be a godsend for Dan.  His family seems very friendly.  Tua is a cool story.  Cool guy.  

 

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I agree with Skinsinpardaise that the Tua chatter is probably coming more from Miami end.

 

I am sure our scouts looked at Tua and Herbert, but at the time the organization was committed to Haskins.   For example for the 2021 draft I am sure we did some preliminary scouting on the higher end edge prospects, but with Sweat and Young I doubt we did  a deep dive.  So the argument that we know Ron is not interested because he could have drafted Tua in 2020 doesn't strike me as convincing.  We simply were not in the QB market at the time.  However, I do find it somewhat convincing that these reporters had talked to people in the front office before all the chatter began and they were not that interested in Tua.

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12 minutes ago, philibusters said:

I agree with Skinsinpardaise that the Tua chatter is probably coming more from Miami end.

 

I am sure our scouts looked at Tua and Herbert, but at the time the organization was committed to Haskins.   For example for the 2021 draft I am sure we did some preliminary scouting on the higher end edge prospects, but with Sweat and Young I doubt we did  a deep dive.  So the argument that we know Ron is not interested because he could have drafted Tua in 2020 doesn't strike me as convincing.  We simply were not in the QB market at the time.  However, I do find it somewhat convincing that these reporters had talked to people in the front office before all the chatter began and they were not that interested in Tua.

 

The only counter to my argument was the opinon was formed by scouts who worked for Kyle Smith if i am piecing together the timing.  I know some of them remained and some of them left.  And Marty Hurney wasn't there at the time, so it is possible that some of the new crew have a different perspective than the prior one.

 

But Keim mentioned this in passing not long ago.  It came up in a podcast where he talked about Herbet and Chase Young and Tua and what he heard they were thinking in that draft.  I recall Hoffman talking about it prior to that actual draft.

 

Granted the scouts there didn't like Haskins, yet Dan did, and took him anyway.  So you never know with this team.    But considering we got that and hard denials from multiple local reporters, I don't think it happens.    When the Stafford rumors came out nationally, I don't recall the local reporters going heck no its not true back then.  Most actually confirmed the rumor versus deny it.  

 

And as far as false rumors, I recall nationally SF was supposedly hot for Stafford, and the leader to get him at some point judging by rumors.  Later it came out that SF wasn't even interested let alone leading the chase.   So personally I don't trust every rumor I hear but some reporters I have faith in, Keim being one of them. Schefter is another.  Not that either are 100% dead on accurate.  But they've been the closest when it comes to this team.  Standig is pretty good on that front, too. 

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7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But with Dan anything is possible so you never know.  I even recall making a joke years back on a thread about Dan would dig Tua because you got Hawaii-Alabama-the big family story.  For a dude who craves a social life with his players, the Tua family could be a godsend for Dan.  His family seems very friendly.  Tua is a cool story.  Cool guy.  

 

Oh SIP, I really liked your post until I got the the end. This actually scares me that he could be Danny's new buddy like RG3 and Haskins...ugh.

 

I do not think Tua fits RR's profile for what he wants but he does fit Danny's.

 

At age 37 next year, I don't buy Matt Ryan being in Washington either

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3 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Oh SIP, I really liked your post until I got the the end. This actually scares me that he could be Danny's new buddy like RG3 and Haskins...ugh.

 

I do not think Tua fits RR's profile for what he wants but he does fit Danny's.

 

 

I am assuming Danny isn't ballsy enough yet considering all that's happened in recent times to override Rivera on an important decision like this.   But you never know with him.  I got no idea what he thinks about Tua.  But I'll say he didn't keep his love for Haskins secret before that draft, everyone was on it just about before it went down.  We aren't hearing something like that about Tua, yet.  So we might be safe for the moment that Rivera is doing his thing without Dan impinging.  But who knows?  

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If we have a chance at Tu’a for a third, and get a trial for at least 6-8 games this season and we pass…

 

I’m willing to bet we strike out again in the offseason.

 

I like Trubisky more than most here. He’s the most intriguing regular FA option. I think he’s in a better position to succeed here than Winston, who has looked almost the same as he did in Tampa but has tighter reigns on him. I also like him far more than Mariota, who if you’re worried about injuries got hurt on his first play this year. 
 

But I prefer a trial with Tu’a more than any. Young guy, tough spot, bad line, high expectations, Covid seasons, coming off a major injury in college. 
 

Am I sold he pans out? No. Am I sold it’s worth the chance for a third round pick? Absolutely. A second? I’m more questioning. A first? No. 
 

But let’s not get cute. We have very little to offer at QB and passing on opportunities at potential players is a major miss.

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  • Koolblue13 changed the title to The Official QB Thread- The Time is Howell! Do we have a QB1? Talking About QBs NOT on the Roster May be Ban Worthy. Move Forward Fromm the Past

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