The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[KillBill26]

54 minutes ago, FlyBigBeard said:

I hope Tress didn't give up is number. He has been one of the few bright spots on this team. He shouldn't be pressured to give up his number. He is to nice I feel like he would/will and that's not right. Let hope he keeps his number 

I like Tress, he has been great for us.  But he is a punter.  Take the envelope full of cash and give up the number dude.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I’ve always liked Way, no doubt he’s a great dude.

 

He shouldn’t be required to give up his number.  But at the end of the day, no matter how good he is - he’s still a punter.  He should be voluntarily offering the # up, and likely is.

[illone]

Discussion about football numbers:

 

 

[BayouBrave86]

I hope Tress gets PAID. He’s been one of the few bright spots on this team for a while now.

 

love the shot Santana takes at how poor commies gear is selling

[Voice_of_Reason]

11 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

No it's not overblown

 

A 250 lb QB gets far greater force when they run than a 200 pound quarterback, assuming similar speeds at collision.

 

And that size and speed combo absolutely puts them in better position to shrug some hits off.

 

Having said that, I agree with your overall premise. It doesn't matter if he's 205 if he learns to avoid hits rather than take them on like a crash test dummy. 

 

 

 

 

Also, if the injury rate is 100% (basically) for all QBs, he's going to get injured just because he is.

 

Burrow isn't small and he's missed a ton of time.  

 

Shrug.  I think I've talked myself into "all QBs get hurt.  If all QBs get hurt, then does their size really have an impact?"

 

Burrow had a shoulder injury and a torn ACL.  It doesn't matter if you're 200lbs or 250 lbs, if a LB rolls up on your leg backwards, you're cooked.  

 

To your last point, the more hits he avoids, the lesser the chance of injury.  That means getting the ball out quickly and not taking unnecessary hits.  But that goes for literally every QB in the league. 

 

Andrew Luck had prototypical size, and his career was ended early because of injury.  So, I'm in the "it can happen to anybody camp."

 

I'm frankly more concerned Daniels can't hit tight window throws in the middle of the field than his size.   

[Rex Tomb]

1 hour ago, illone said:

Discussion about football numbers:

 

 

OMG… Grant and Danny spent an entire 20 minute segment on this stupid topic.  Fortunately rookie minicamp is just two days away.

[Skinsinparadise]

Who is your early pick for Offensive Rookie of the Year?

 

Fowler: Jayden Daniels, QB, Washington Commanders. This will be a close race with Williams and possibly a receiver such as Harrison, but Daniels is set up for success. Washington has a chance to be sneaky good. Daniels has adequate skill players around him in Terry McLaurin, Jahan Dotson, Zach Ertz, Brian Robinson Jr. and Austin Ekeler. Some evaluators considered Daniels the most pro-ready quarterback on Day 1. Kliff Kingsbury's system is good for passing yards, and Daniels will accumulate rushing yards to bolster his case.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40069462/2024-nfl-draft-experts-debate-favorite-picks-best-rookie-classes-fantasy-value

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

To your last point, the more hits he avoids, the lesser the chance of injury.  That means getting the ball out quickly and not taking unnecessary hits.  But that goes for literally every QB in the league. 

 

 

But a QB in the pocket is different than out of the pocket. In the pocket injuries can still absolutely 100% happen, but the QB still has far more protections as far as how players are allowed to contact him, and most players do what they can to avoid getting those penalties for certain types of hits. But outside of the pocket and taking off downfield the QB is now basically a running back and can be hit pretty much the exact same way.

 

That's how Anthony Richardson ended up with a concussion and separated shoulder within 4 games of starting his NFL career. And Richardson is at least 35lb heavier than Daniels. I can't even imagine what would have happened to Daniels if those hits had happened to him.

[Voice_of_Reason]

37 minutes ago, mistertim said:

And Richardson is at least 35lb heavier than Daniels. I can't even imagine what would have happened to Daniels if those hits had happened to him.

And I guess that’s my point: he likely would have missed the remainder of the season.  Which happened to Richardson. 
 

So, is there really a difference? 
 

The key is to not expose yourself to the hits regardless of size.  

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

And I guess that’s my point: he likely would have missed the remainder of the season.  Which happened to Richardson. 
 

So, is there really a difference? 
 

The key is to not expose yourself to the hits regardless of size.  

 

My main point was that outside of the pocket and running downfield, a QB has a much higher risk because of the fact that they no longer have the protections they get while in the pocket. Which is what happened in both of Richardson's injuries.

 

And becoming a running back is exposing yourself to hits. Which is why I'd like to see Daniels be much more judicious in how he uses that aspect of his game. Otherwise I fear that he may end up with many injuries and a short career. He doesn't share Lamar's almost supernatural ability to avoid hits.

 

As far as size, who knows how much worse those injuries could have been if those hits had happened to a guy 35lbs lighter. 

Edited May 9 by mistertim

[Llevron]

There is an argument to be made about being hit by DBs down field in less traffic versus being hit in the pocket by BigFats where all the other BigFats are and how its probably not so safe in the pocket. But we all get the point - dude has to stay healthy and avoid contact when he can. 

 

I think a more fun argument is the best way to do that ^^^ is by diagnosing coverage quickly, allowing the ball to get out of your hands faster, and before the BigFats can get to your skinny little legs and crunchy bits. That's what Brady did so well. It wasn't staying in the pocket, it was getting the ball out before they had any reason to get that close to you. Jayden was good at this last season....better than his competition. Its part of why he was pressured so little. I am hoping he can further refine that part of his game. If not he's probably cooked in a few years anyway. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

18 hours ago, wit33 said:

The weight factor is an interesting one and one that has lost a lot of value in the NBA in recent seasons. I always like to compare both and feel that the NBA is typically about ten years ahead of the NFL in most areas. I haven’t taken the time to do extensive research on weight related to injuries at any position, and it would require deciphering which injuries are actually weight related.

 

Walter Payton weighed 203 pounds.

 

Jerome Bettis 251 pounds.

 

Both were ironmen at the running back position.

 

No argument from me that injuries are a concern and part of his growth must include avoiding hits. 

 

Kirk had a long run as a somewhat undersized QB without getting hurt.   I recently saw he's 205.

 

So agree weight isn't the be all and end all.  With Jayden to me its his frame more so than his weight.  Its very narrow.  It looks like a frame that can be blown up easier.  But am not doctor, don't know for sure. 

[redskinss]

7 minutes ago, Llevron said:

There is an argument to be made about being hit by DBs down field in less traffic versus being hit in the pocket by BigFats where all the other BigFats are and how its probably not so safe in the pocket. But we all get the point - dude has to stay healthy and avoid contact when he can. 

 

The big difference being that in the pocket quarterbacks are protected like box turtles on a construction site.

Running through the backfield they're fair game.

Most of the vicious hits he took were when he was running wild and the one big one he took in the pocket drew a flag.

[Llevron]

4 minutes ago, redskinss said:

 

The big difference being that in the pocket quarterbacks are protected like box turtles on a construction site.

Running through the backfield they're fair game.

Most of the vicious hits he took were when he was running wild and the one big one he took in the pocket drew a flag.

 

Yea -im willing to bet- vicious hits don't lead to injury nearly as often as being crunched up in the pocket and having your foot stuck under one guy and your body going the other direction. Those really are the dangerous ones. The rules help sure, but there is no rule about multiple 300 pound washing machines landing on you at the same time. But we all get the point - dude has to stay healthy and avoid contact when he can. 

[woodpecker]

13 hours ago, Rex Tomb said:

OMG… Grant and Danny spent an entire 20 minute segment on this stupid topic.  Fortunately rookie minicamp is just two days away.

I actually find the discussion entertaining. And what else are they gonna talk about? Don’t really need more fluff pieces about our draft picks or mock schedules.

[Skinsinparadise]

The LSU performance guy, someone who helped Jayden get the VAR, etc was on Galdi, good listen.  He got into the technology and how it helped Jayden and also addressed injury concerns.  In short, he said he's found correlatons between college injuries and the pros and believes Daniels is fine on that count.  Cited anyother skinny player he worked with in college who in turn had a long NFL career without much as to injuries which correlated to college.  And also said he knows college athletes that are muscular with good frames who are injury prone.  So in short he's not hung up on weight as the X factor.

Edited May 9 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, Llevron said:

 

Yea -im willing to bet- vicious hits don't lead to injury nearly as often as being crunched up in the pocket and having your foot stuck under one guy and your body going the other direction. Those really are the dangerous ones. The rules help sure, but there is no rule about multiple 300 pound washing machines landing on you at the same time. But we all get the point - dude has to stay healthy and avoid contact when he can. 

 

By "nearly as often" are you talking about pure numbers or ratios? Because obviously by pure numbers there will be more QB injuries in the pocket than downfield, because the vast majority of QBs tend to stay in the pocket way more than they are running downfield.

 

But, compared to the numbers of times QBs get hit in the pocket, the number of injuries is pretty low. Admittedly, I'm not sure what the percentage would be for when QBs are hit as running backs downfield, so that may be super low as well.

 

But the fact that, downfield when running, QBs have much less protections and can absolutely get de-cleated at speed still scares the crap out of me for Daniels.

Edited May 9 by mistertim

[Warhead36]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The LSU performance guy, someone who helped Jayden get the VAR, etc was on Galdi, good listen.  He got into the technology and how it helped Jayden and also addressed injury concerns.  In short, he said he's found correlatons between college injuries and the pros and believes Daniels is fine on that count.  Cited anyother skinny player he worked with in college who in turn had a long NFL career without much as to injuries which correlated to college.  And also said he knows college athletes that are muscular with good frames who are injury prone.  So in short he's not hung up on weight as the X factor.

I mean it could just be that Daniels is slight, but his bones/muscles are just super sturdy. Genetics/biology can be weird like that. Burrow and Luck are built like stallions but both got/get hurt a lot. Devonta Smith on the other hand(I know not a QB but still)is like a buck 50 soaking wet and I don't think he's ever missed a game.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I mean it could just be that Daniels is slight, but his bones/muscles are just super sturdy. Genetics/biology can be weird like that. Burrow and Luck are built like stallions but both got/get hurt a lot. Devonta Smith on the other hand(I know not a QB but still)is like a buck 50 soaking wet and I don't think he's ever missed a game.

 

Definitely could be.  I am not counting on it but its possible.

 

When I think of incrediblly durable QBs I think of Kirk and Eli and neither are mountains of muscle.  And Kirk is on the thin side. 

[srtman04]

Has Jayden Daniels ever had a major injury in college?   I'm just trying to understand where all of these fears of his durability are coming from.....

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, srtman04 said:

Has Jayden Daniels ever had a major injury in college?   I'm just trying to understand where all of these fears of his durability are coming from.....

 

No he hasn't. But that doesn't necessarily mean it won't happen. He took some vicious hits in college. Him not getting injured could be pure luck. And players in the NFL are bigger and faster than college. His small frame makes it all the more concerning when he's outside of the pocket and running downfield. 

[redskinss]

10 minutes ago, srtman04 said:

Has Jayden Daniels ever had a major injury in college?   I'm just trying to understand where all of these fears of his durability are coming from.....

 

Did you miss the last 900 pages of this thread?

 

 

[srtman04]

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

No he hasn't. But that doesn't necessarily mean it won't happen. He took some vicious hits in college. Him not getting injured could be pure luck. And players in the NFL are bigger and faster than college. His small frame makes it all the more concerning when he's outside of the pocket and running downfield. 

 

I honestly believe it's going to be less of an issue for JD during his first few years in the NFL.   That's when his body will be the strongest and ability to heal quickly comes into play.  He's probably going to need to change his style of play later on in his career.   If he had a serious injury in college,  then I'd be more concerned he's heading the RG3 path......since RG3 actually had a major injury in college.   

[redskinss]

Apparently jayden and malik nabers have a ten thousand dollar bet on who will win rookie of the year.

Hopefully it doesn't break any serious nfl gambling rules.