The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[DJHJR86]

Rivera had the chance to retain Kevin O'Connell, but he didn't.  Vikings are 4-1 right now.

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

I wouldn't play Howell on a short week but if the offense stinks again Thursday, I'd start Howell after. Give him an extra few days to prep.

I’ve been a fan of the Wentz move, however game changing plays like yesterday simply can’t happen. It’s may be small margins but he has to get the win in that scenario. I think his lack of mobility and elusiveness in the pocket is a major drawback.

 

I’m with you, if we suck against the Bears and go 1-5 it’s time for wholesale changes including at QB. Howell would be next man up for me.

[RandyHolt]

Scrolling the Tok came across Barstool Frank the tanks 5 worst QBs in the league.

 

Roses are Red Violets are blue if your quarterback is Carson Wentz your season is through.

 

I thought it was going to be Fields #1. Nope.

[Zim489]

59 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

Putting Howell behind this OL will translate into Patrick Ramsey syndrome. Make Scott Turner earn his money now. Show us play-calling abilities that take into account the deficiencies on that line.

So what? 

[skinzplay]

I don't want the kid to be shell shocked or looking like that dude Chaos, from those auto insurance commercials. We can and should be better than this. A bulk of the blame is on poor coaching and poor roster mgmt.

Edited October 10, 2022 by skinzplay

[NoVaSkins21]

8 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Rivera had the chance to retain Kevin O'Connell, but he didn't.  Vikings are 4-1 right now.

Why go with O'Connell when you have a Carolina crony in Turner who's straight trash 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, skinzplay said:

Putting Howell behind this OL will translate into Patrick Ramsey syndrome. Make Scott Turner earn his money now. Show us play-calling abilities that take into account the deficiencies on that line.

 

I get the point but I suspect he might not killed.  His O line in N. Carolina wasn't hot and he's more elusive in the pocket and will take off if he sees an opening,

 

It struck me after the Lions game that some of the Lions defenders said that Carson was a much easier QB for them to play against versus Hurts because Wentz is a statue back there and Hurts moves around.  

Edited October 10, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[skinzplay]

I can see that, for sure. 

[DJHJR86]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

It struck me after the Lions game that some the Lions defenders saying Carson was a much easier QB for them to play against versus Hurts because Wentz is a statue back there and Hurts moves around.  

 

There would be growing pains with Howell for sure, but his mobility would help with some of the offensive line issues.

[method man]

13 minutes ago, NoVaSkins21 said:

Why go with O'Connell when you have a Carolina crony in Turner who's straight trash 

 

What was interesting was that Rivera and KOC had a number of conversations to see if they could work something out. I think the major reason KOC said no was because Rivera wouldn't give him a say on the offensive position coaches he'd get to work with. While I think the offensive position coaches are/were strong, especially Matsko and Hoener, I would trade them in a heartbeat to have kept KOC. While Zampese has a good reputaiton, Turner would have been better off staying a QB coach

[tomwvr]

19 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

So what? 

Put scott in at qb ;:)

[Skinsinparadise]

Said differently, if your offensive line is struggiling -- it begs even more for a mobile Qb who runs around in the pocket and is willing to take off and get some yards on the ground.

 

Howell isn't tall but he's muscular and can take a hit.  Unlike RG3 in the past or even Heinicke who look like they will be broken in half if they take a big hit.  Watching Howell at Carolina, he was a gutsy-tough QB -- not skittish and he has the balls to run to gain some yards on the ground.

 

Wentz has taken a lot of sacks throughout his career and I doubt its a mere coincidence that its happening here, too.  I am not saying this is a good O line but it wouldn't shock me if it looked better with Howell even though he's a rookie -- his style of play is almost tailor made for a seive O line like this IMO.

 

I like Rivera as a dude.  But one thing I don't like about him is he can be stubborn to prove a point.  I suspect he wouldn't love benching Wentz at some point during the season considering all of his effusive rhetoric about Wentz and the capital they gave up.  Hopefully, he can put his ego aside.

 

Also from a pure Rivera standpoint, if Howell looks like he has the goods if anything he'd be redeemed in a way that I don't think anything else would aside from a big winning streak. 

Edited October 10, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[redskinss]

26 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Rivera had the chance to retain Kevin O'Connell, but he didn't.  Vikings are 4-1 right now.

Wouldn't have mattered, we once had Mike Shanahan, Kyle Shanahan, Matt Lafleur and Sean mcvay on this staff and we won 3 games.

You think Kevin O'Connell would have made a difference. 

Jesus christ couldn't win more than 7 games with Dan at the controls.

[tomwvr]

Rons failure is 3 fold

1 he has horrible game time managment

2 he take little to no responsibility for the failures

3 he is the worst evaluator of tallent we have had in a long time, where he allows personal relationships cloud how he looks at someone 

[DJHJR86]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

Said differently, if your offensive line is struggiling -- it begs even more for a mobile Qb who runs around in the pocket and is willing to take off and get some yards on the ground.

 

Yep.

 

It's going to be interesting after Chicago.  Do they bench Wentz for Howell, and make Wentz the inactive QB?  Or do they bench him for Howell and make Heinicke inactive?  And has there ever been an instance of a starter being benched for the 3rd stringer?  

[Jumbo]

To be clear: 

 

I go on about the stupid attached to much of the wentz focus, mostly by the heinie fanboyz, because when any topic provokes a consistent, notable, steady stream of low level posting I tend to call it out. 

 

This place was started with certain goals in mind and among those was to not settle for just being like most such sites where content standards really weren't set that high.

 

The moderating staff was never hesitant to set high standards for discussion and encouraging es members to challenge "lower level"  posting---at times in harsh terms if merited (read intro to rules, rule 5, and all of rule 18).

 

This activity was regularly solicited by the staff and practiced by the staff. It was part of the mission statement that runs throughout our rules and guideline page.

 

Now I have not seen anything on this site that suggests we have ANY "wentz fanboyz" situation.

 

I have been critical of wentz and didn't want him ( or Ron for that matter, but I was resigned to the fact that with Dan at the helm many good coaches would stay away). I told TK from the beginning that neither would get us anywhere, but the ugly fact to me remains the same: as long as dan is here we are just perpetually shuffling chairs on the titanic.

 

Now I did see guys making some reasonable arguments why there by at least be some possibility and hope that wentz be able to an upgrade to what we've had since kirk, but I still didn't buy it as a move worth making. And I did not read any "wentz lovers" posting---they we're always hopeful at best, but quick to appropriately criticize him while not making everything his fault if it wasn't. Which is something certain folks here definitely do.

 

Otoh, starting heinie was not tenable either as I simply don't believe a NFL hc will do an obvious deliberate tank of a season because the following year's draft will have good qbs available. Owners, sure, but not hc's.

 

So back to wentz hating, I see plenty and, to repeat, I didn't want him and was open to the possiblity he might turn his story around a bit but was never anything but skeptical. And my skepticism still rules and I think it's already over for him.

 

But all that has zero to do with calling out heinie fanboyz (a provable real thing on the site) and guys who just want to waste posts on excessive  wentz hating as though changing him out is going to make a real difference to future commander performance.

 

For sure, get rid of him, but don't expect drafting a guy next year and keeping Howell too are going to make a big diff. We will perpetually suck in coaching staffs cuz of our owner and what's become our legacy of the last two decades.

 

Of the es'ers who tried to somewhat support getting wentz, I never saw anyone who came off remotely like a wentz fanboy and I will continue to hold to the challenge I laid out on the previous page. 

 

It's part of the turf to complain endlessly about the qb when he's not a dominant winner let alone not even close to it so that is expected. But there's only one group of fanboyz here routinely dumbing down discussion and it ain't "wentz heads."

 

 

 

 

[FootballZombie]

16 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

Of the es'ers who tried to somewhat support getting wentz, I never saw anyone who came off remotely like a wentz fanboy and I will continue to hold to the challenge I laid out on the previous page. 

 

I'm pretty sure @Koolblue13 messed himself w/ joy a couple times

 

This trade was like a page out of his top-secret dankest Philly Phan-fiction that he has to keep stored away in the drawer w/ the lock.

 

 

***I'd post the Randy Marsh image but I'm not sure if that's above board

 

 

 

Just messin' w/ ya KB. Your always positive

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

@Jumbo

 

On the money, per usual.

 

I’ve only seen one or two posters that could even remotely be seen as Wentz fanboys and they rarely posted to begin with.  Both happened to be fans of his dating back to Philly and have maybe a dozen posts between the two of them.  I’ve seen not one regular poster here, dating all the way back to March, post anything I would constitute as being a “Wentz fanboy”.

 

I think the only thing any of us here rallied around was the character assassination by Irsay and the gang.  It was and still is gross.  
 

Even the most positive remarks about Wentz here have been colored with “best we could do”.  Not necessarily a glowing endorsement or great belief that he was going to be awesome here.  Just that he’s got more talent than anyone we’ve had since Cousins and that beggars can’t be choosers.

 

Which brings me to my next and final point…

 

Terms like “Wentz fanboy” are only used by hardcore Heineke folks to describe those who fail to see the Mayor of Moxie himself in the same lens that they do.  It’s not because we really like Wentz at all, it’s because we don’t share their high and mythical like opinions on Heineke.  
 

Plain and simple.  

[Jumbo]

And I know KB overstates all kinds of hot takes, not just wentz stuff. It's part of his style, which is a-ok the way he does it and conducts himself in general, but as I noted, even if you can find one or two posters who genuinely comes off like some "Wentz fanboy" it would not merit what is essentially being used as a strawman troll term. This is not a new thing, it's as old as the site and msg boards in general. Nor is an es mod calling it out a new thing.

 

[Koolblue13]

11 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I'm pretty sure @Koolblue13 messed himself w/ joy a couple times

 

This trade was like a page out of his top-secret dankest Philly Phan-fiction that he has to keep stored away in the drawer w/ the lock.

 

 

***I'd post the Randy Marsh image but I'm not sure if that's above board

 

 

 

Just messin' w/ ya KB. Your always positive

I'm positive now, because **** this team. I was a fan of Gibbs and the Redskins. Not this flopping failure of a franchise. 

 

I still like Wentz, but I haven't watched enough the last two weeks to have an opinion on him. I'm sure he isn't the key problem though. I know all the Heini-tards are full of hot air right now and it's a bunch of cheese and whiners pointing their dumb fingers at each other around here, so I've barely checked in here either.

 

I checked in last night because the Eagles game was pretty awesome. Both teams are good and the Cards could have won it if they didn't make 3 huge mistakes at the end, including a time of possession mistake and a dropped pick, ala us. Just goes to show, some teams are underprepared and incompetent and the football never ever bounces their way and some teams are winners and winners get to do what they want. That's just a fact. Ricky 3:14 or some ****. 

16 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

the Mayor of Moxie

   

[Carsonfanforlife]

Carson has to make a better decision on that last play, gotta throw it away and hope for a better option on 4th down. Other than that int I thought he played pretty good given all the issues with the snaps and penalties. I don't think Turner's doing him any favors with some of the calls. Carson's still plenty mobile enough to roll him out and give him a run option. 

 

They gotta get the penalties and awful snaps cleaned up, it's 5 games in they should have that stuff fixed by now! 

[Alexa]

2 hours ago, skinzplay said:

Putting Howell behind this OL will translate into Patrick Ramsey syndrome. Make Scott Turner earn his money now. Show us play-calling abilities that take into account the deficiencies on that line.

Totally disagree. Ramsey at the end of the day wasn't a good enough QB. He had plenty of time to become a starter and never did. He simply wasn't good enough. Just cause he had to play for Ole Ball Coach doesn't mean that ruined his career. He had a chance w/ Gibbs and Gibbs couldn't wait to bench him. 

[justice98]

I've never seen a formerly mobile QB completely lose his athleticism like Wentz.  You would think his leg got chopped off and reattached.   Now, he actually averaging about the same rush yards per game as always has, but his movement around the pocket and scrambling just looks labored.

[Koolblue13]

27 minutes ago, Carsonfanforlife said:

Carson has to make a better decision on that last play, gotta throw it away and hope for a better option on 4th down. Other than that int I thought he played pretty good given all the issues with the snaps and penalties. I don't think Turner's doing him any favors with some of the calls. Carson's still plenty mobile enough to roll him out and give him a run option. 

 

They gotta get the penalties and awful snaps cleaned up, it's 5 games in they should have that stuff fixed by now! 

I bet TK will still change your screen name to Carsonforsummertiume or something

[TChaler70]

1 hour ago, Jumbo said:

To be clear: 

 

I go on about the stupid attached to much of the wentz focus, mostly by the heinie fanboyz, because when any topic provokes a consistent, notable, steady stream of low level posting I tend to call it out. 

 

This place was started with certain goals in mind and among those was to not settle for just being like most such sites where content standards really weren't set that high.

 

The moderating staff was never hesitant to set high standards for discussion and encouraging es members to challenge "lower level"  posting---at times in harsh terms if merited (read intro to rules, rule 5, and all of rule 18).

 

This activity was regularly solicited by the staff and practiced by the staff. It was part of the mission statement that runs throughout our rules and guideline page.

 

Now I have not seen anything on this site that suggests we have ANY "wentz fanboyz" situation.

 

I have been critical of wentz and didn't want him ( or Ron for that matter, but I was resigned to the fact that with Dan at the helm many good coaches would stay away). I told TK from the beginning that neither would get us anywhere, but the ugly fact to me remains the same: as long as dan is here we are just perpetually shuffling chairs on the titanic.

 

Now I did see guys making some reasonable arguments why there by at least be some possibility and hope that wentz be able to an upgrade to what we've had since kirk, but I still didn't buy it as a move worth making. And I did not read any "wentz lovers" posting---they we're always hopeful at best, but quick to appropriately criticize him while not making everything his fault if it wasn't. Which is something certain folks here definitely do.

 

Otoh, starting heinie was not tenable either as I simply don't believe a NFL hc will do an obvious deliberate tank of a season because the following year's draft will have good qbs available. Owners, sure, but not hc's.

 

So back to wentz hating, I see plenty and, to repeat, I didn't want him and was open to the possiblity he might turn his story around a bit but was never anything but skeptical. And my skepticism still rules and I think it's already over for him.

 

But all that has zero to do with calling out heinie fanboyz (a provable real thing on the site) and guys who just want to waste posts on excessive  wentz hating as though changing him out is going to make a real difference to future commander performance.

 

For sure, get rid of him, but don't expect drafting a guy next year and keeping Howell too are going to make a big diff. We will perpetually suck in coaching staffs cuz of our owner and what's become our legacy of the last two decades.

 

Of the es'ers who tried to somewhat support getting wentz, I never saw anyone who came off remotely like a wentz fanboy and I will continue to hold to the challenge I laid out on the previous page. 

 

It's part of the turf to complain endlessly about the qb when he's not a dominant winner let alone not even close to it so that is expected. But there's only one group of fanboyz here routinely dumbing down discussion and it ain't "wentz heads."

 

 

 

 

You just wrote a book and I have no idea what you are talking about. What do you mean waste posts? Who the heck are these "wentz heads"?  Is there such a thing as wasting posts from fans? It is a forum after all. I am a TH fan and think we would of been better off with him, so I respond when someone posts something about Carson I disagree with. Is that wasting posts? Fans are wasting posts because they are a big fan of player? Why are you lecturing people for defending or posting about players fans like?

 

By the way who is attacking who, 2 posts up I think Heinytard was used.

Edited October 10, 2022 by TChaler70