The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

 

 

3 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Totally unrelated and for completely non-sadistic reasons I recently upgraded my car antenna.

 

Its called the Mangler.

 

 

Edited April 13 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[FootballZombie]

28 minutes ago, skinsarethebest said:

Am I right or wrong here?  Anyone who thinks Howell was trash also think that Maye’s a better pick than Daniels?

 

I liked Howell. I prefer JD.

 

Felt he was much more a victim of bad circumstance that was absolutely Sparta'd into the wilderness, while being thrown off a boat w/ weights tied to his legs.

But this is the NFL and prices have to be paid, so he lost his oppo here.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, Llevron said:

No one who likes Jayden Daniels really has any respect when it comes to grading QBs. You can tell because they like Jayden Daniels lol

 

Exactly.  Anyone who doesn't agree their credibility will be put to task.  Though the same principle applies to all of us, me included about Maye, we've been royally wrong, too.  And some who are speaking on this thread with total convinction have had that type of conviction before and have been right and wrong, just as much as any talking head.

 

I got no beef with anyone's takes here.  But its clearly a hot button emotional topic. And big time so.   I am on Maye's side of the debate.  But I simply don't think it would be a ridiculous move if they take Daniels.  And that take alone makes me a target here.  

 

Actually the best take here on the subject to me is from @SoCalSkins -- Peters is not a moron so they won't take Daniels.  Not sure if I agree its a moronic take if they took Daniels even though I am a Maye guy.  But if I did genuinely feel its a moronic take why would I worry unless I didn't like the Peters hire?  i wouldn't worry one whit. So his take has the courage of his convictions in my book.

 

lol, the opposite of love is indifference not hate.  So all the fired up posts about why Daniels is an awful pick feels a bit defensive in my book.  If you think its that bad of a pick, then don't fret it.  I've said that.   And heck even if you are fearful it happens why fret it now, wait to see if it happens before torturing yourself. 

 

I still think there is a decent shot they take Maye.

 

Not saying all should rock the way I see it.  Just explaning this is how i rock on the point and that it colors my responses in the debate. 

Edited April 13 by Skinsinparadise

[Jumbo]

37 minutes ago, skinsarethebest said:

Your last sentence brings up a point I was about to make about Maye fanhood.  I suspect a strong predictor of whether or not someone favors Maye over Daniels is whether or not they believe Sam Howell was a serviceable option at QB or not.

 

I consider Howell to be straight up garbage, and that even with a better O line, he would have been terrible.  Of course, it’s not something that can be proven one way or the other.  However, I suspect that how you feel about Howell can be a pretty accurate predictor of where you fall in the Maye versus Daniels debate.

 

Am I right or wrong here?  Anyone who thinks Howell was trash also think that Maye’s a better pick than Daniels?

 

Read more. Post less.

 

(It's an old saying here 😁👹💩)

 

[Bifflog]

2 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

Read more. Post less.

 

(It's an old saying here 😁👹💩)

 

 

A case could be made, in this thread, for don't post, don't read, don't click...

[Rufus T Firefly]

2 minutes ago, Bifflog said:

 

A case could be made, in this thread, for don't post, don't read, don't click...

[Warhead36]

I don't think taking Daniels makes Peters a moron. It makes him vulnerable to public perception and pressure, and vulnerable to succumbing to the demands of a charismatic coach, but it doesn't make him a moron. 

 

With that said, I would absolutely question his competency if he passes on Maye and he ends up being the stud I think he will be, unless Daniels also ends up being a stud.

[mac8887]

30 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Peters is not a moron. We aren’t drafting Daniels. 

Ballsy take right here. If he does end up taking Daniels and he ends up balling out and your guy busts, you’ve left yourself open. I applaud the confidence and conviction 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't think taking Daniels makes Peters a moron. It makes him vulnerable to public perception and pressure, and vulnerable to succumbing to the demands of a charismatic coach, but it doesn't make him a moron. 

 

With that said, I would absolutely question his competency if he passes on Maye and he ends up being the stud I think he will be, unless Daniels also ends up being a stud.

 

How do you know that Quinn is making this call for Peters?  As I've mentioned the evidence seems very slanted that Quinn is deferring to Peters.

 

And how stupid would both of them, Peters and Quinn have to be for them to believe that Maye is the better long term bet, yet they care about winning a few games early and that supersedes the longer term bet -- even though they are working for an owner known for his patience.  And they are in year 1 with arguably a long leash.

 

My point is if Maye is the guy.  And look i understand the argument for Maye, I've made a zillion times on this thread and my mind hasn't changed one whit on it.   then Maye will be the guy picked.  You seem to be throwing in the towell.  But I don't get that.  lol, I feel a bit guilty for that because I've posted a lot of the smoke that Daniels might be the guy taken.  But "might" is the operative word.  I genuinely feel this is 50-50.  I wouldn't be shocked at all if Maye is the pick.

 

But if Maye isn't the pick.  Studying Harris, Peters, Quinn, i think zero shot that they would take the inferior prospect in their minds to win this season.

Edited April 13 by Skinsinparadise

[Rufus T Firefly]

6 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't think taking Daniels makes Peters a moron. It makes him vulnerable to public perception and pressure, and vulnerable to succumbing to the demands of a charismatic coach, but it doesn't make him a moron. 

 

With that said, I would absolutely question his competency if he passes on Maye and he ends up being the stud I think he will be, unless Daniels also ends up being a stud.

I have always thought most big mistakes that sports organizations make are of philosophy, so to speak. 

 

Most often I would say is over prioritizing the short-term. Trying too hard to win right now with teams that aren't contenders.

[HTTRDynasty]

Regardless of who is or isn’t a moron today, both Peters and Quinn will be perceived as morons if Daniels busts or gets a significant injury and Maye turns into at least an average NFL starter. 
 

I don’t see any way they survive that. 

[mac8887]

I’m pretty sure that final say on the qb will go to peters. One thing that I was very excited about with the Quinn hire was that he seemed to be perfectly happy with being the coach and allowing Peters to control the roster construction. Quinn even stated that it would be Peters decision.

[BMagic]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But if Maye isn't the pick.  Studying Harris, Peters, Quinn, i think zero shot that they would take the inferior prospect in their minds to win this season.

 

Definitely agree here. The NBA forced Harris to get rid of Sam Hinkie during "The Process" even though Hinkie cracked the code. Stack up draft picks to get multiple bites at the apple. He was just too brazen in how he went about the strategy. Sam Presti has done the same thing for years and no one came for his head. Now, OKC has a young contender again after losing the KD/Harden/Westbrook core.

 

Bottom line is Harris has shown he will sacrifice short term fools gold for a sustainable contender.

Edited April 13 by BMagic

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Regardless of who is or isn’t a moron today,

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

Can you break down what he said about Daniels? I’d love to be made increasingly comfortable with possibly passing on the guy I like. 

 

Lol, I'd rather one of the Daniels > Maye people here do it.  @wit33?  @Est.1974?  I know there are some others but those come to mind first.

 

By presenting Daniels case as not being a terrible choice its making me by default the defacto Daniels person here.  And while i don't think Daniels is some absurd choice like some do.  I also still prefer Maye and its getting lost in the sauce as the draft gets closer.  I have to be top 5 here in pro Maye posts.

 

But I would say as to Cooley in short put him in the category (this is pre-watching Maye) as Daniels is a superstar, no brainer stud in his mind.  Not a good QB, a great QB.  Over the years sometimes I've agreed, sometimes not with Cooley and talked about it back then.  But i'll give Cooley this, he goes deep into his takes and is not an easy sell.  He leans on the cynicism side.  I recall more of his negative takes than positive over the years. 

 

 

 

Edited April 13 by Skinsinparadise

[mac8887]

1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Regardless of who is or isn’t a moron today, both Peters and Quinn will be perceived as morons if Daniels busts or gets a significant injury and Maye turns into at least an average NFL starter. 
 

I don’t see any way they survive that. 

Wouldn’t it be the same if they draft Maye and he busts and Daniels turns out to be good? I don’t think it’s fair to either of them to hang everything on this #2 pick. It’s not like they are trading the house for the qb. It’s just one pick. With all the picks and cap space we have, there is a good chance within 3 years we could have a much better overall roster and could bring in a vet like Tampa did with baker if we need a qb upgrade.

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, BMagic said:

 

Definitely agree here. The NBA forced Harris to get rid of Sam Hinkie during "The Process" even though Hinkie cracked the code. Stack up draft picks to get multiple bites at the apple. He was just too brazen in how he went about the strategy. Sam Presti has done the same thing for years and no one came for his head. Now, OKC has a young contender again after losing the KD/Harden/Westbrook core.

 

Bottom line is Harris has shown he will sacrifice short term fools gold for a sustainable contender.

 

100%.

 

I was big on Harris before he bought the team.  I was big on Peters before the hire.  I've read a ton on both.  I got zero fear that they would think you know Daniels could win us 9 games this year, Maye maybe 7.  In 2025 though Maye will be a 12 win QB while Daniels will still be a 9 game winner.  But screw it lets take Daniels. 

 

Based on their background, zero chance that's their thinking.  It's actually ridiculous if you follow especially Harris style where he is willing to lose for many years let alone he doesn't have the patience for just one or two seasons to get that superstar.

 

Now if they take Daniels they might be dead wrong about the pick but I don't even remotely believe that they'd take him while believing Maye will be the better QB long term.  that would go against the fundamentals about how Harris rocks. 

 

But again this is all predictaed by some of the Maye people admitting defeat and trying to come up with a justification that the FO still agrees that Maye is the better pick no matter what they do. 

 

I'd say zero chance or close enough knowing the backgrounds of these guys that they'd take Daniels while feeling Maye is the better long term bet.  But why torture youself with these hypotheticals?  They can still take Maye.  The draft isn't over.  Maye can still be the guy.

 

I am a Maye person myself.  It's not over.  they can take him.  I really really believe that. 

Edited April 13 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I played poker with Cooley a few times when he was a rookie. A few years later I ended up in the tent where some players and their families go to eat post game and he remembered me and was kind enough to come say high. I was so drunk that I slurred through some recollection of how I had just won $1500 at the poker game two days earlier. He got a very confused look on his face and walked away.

 

I saw him in NO for a Redskins game at the time and he took photos with my kids super nice.

 

I used my Redskins credit card points another time to meet him and Larry in the radio booth.  He wasn't officially retired yet and there was a rumor that he might go to the Giants so I told him dude don't play for NY, my delivery was off when saying it, i meant it in a joking way but it came off serious so he gave me sort of a bashful response like I was serious so I felt bad. 

Edited April 13 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

You’re not leaving open the possibility Maye turns into Carson Wentz.  Which is really possible. The similarities between Maye and Wentz are there: but guy, athletic (Wentz was Houdini prior to injuries) big arm, can make all the throws, questionable mechanics, longer delivery, plays some hero ball, misses easy throws badly.

 

I am more of a Maye guy than a Daniels guy.  But if you’re not acknowledging Maye has the ability to bust hard, you’re purposely looking away from it.  
 

He might turn into Herbert.  
 

Or he might be Carson Wentz.  
 

Daniels might be a better passing Lamar.  Or he might be Justin Fields.  
 

You just don’t know.  

 

It's all true.  I like Maye but this idea that the stars and moon are hung with this dude is a bit overblown.

 

He has bust potential.  Danels has bust potential.  They all do. 

 

If we are going by past is prologue,  60% chance Maye is a bust.  60% chance Daniels is a bust.  Maybe more.

 

Neither dude IMO have earned zealous full faith. 

28 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

I’m pretty sure that final say on the qb will go to peters. One thing that I was very excited about with the Quinn hire was that he seemed to be perfectly happy with being the coach and allowing Peters to control the roster construction. Quinn even stated that it would be Peters decision.

 

When I heard Quinn basically suggest that Peters taught Quinn more or less some lessons on to how to watch QBs.  And Quinn then saying to his wife Peters is a stud -- I got no vibe at all that Quinn is going to be the dude dictating to Peters.

[Llevron]

I think most of the overzealous Maye takes come from an emotional place more than a practical or analytical place. Which is why, after being presented with facts over and over AND common sense not cracking through, it’s not worth arguing about. Just take your corners, gents. Unless we draft Maye and pacify the louder critics, we are going to be doubting GMAP and Quinn at every possible turn going forward. It’s the way of the ES. We have been doing it so long I bet some couldn’t change if they wanted to. 
 

Which will suck kinda. But it will be comfortable I guess lol. 

[mac8887]

Cooley loved Jayden, said he can get up to 225lbs within 2 years. Loves him so much that he said there is no need to do more film breakdown. Said Jayden should be the pick at #2.

 

He said if you only look at passing plays, he is already a human highlight reel

 

Said he had great footwork and mechanics

 

Sais he makes every through, accurately and with touch

 

Sais he is an amazing athlete that can run for 40 yards on any given play. Said he can outrun a defense and loves his burst and acceleration 

 

Sais he reads defenses really well and goes through his progressions really well.

 

Said he layers the ball over the middle reall well

 

loves his deep ball and thinks he can throw it a long way

 

sais he is likes his frame and has an athletic body, thinks he can add 15lbs in 2 years if he had to

 

sais he opens the door for the offense to do a lot as a rookie qb, said he could be as good as stroud his rookie year

 

his only negative was that he doesn’t have the arm strength to rifle in a 17 yard comeback into tight coverage, but thinks he will be able to make up for it with timing.

Edited April 13 by mac8887

[Hooper]

It's wild to read all this stuff from a lot coaches and execs saying Daniels is the clear number two and that Maye scares him and is probably QB 4 at this point... then come here.

 

I like all three of our options. None of them scream Zach Wilson or Trey Lance, that's for sure. 

[Llevron]

Whatever happened to this guy posting here? I remember a fall from grace but I never understood why. 

[Dah-Dee]

Evan Lazar previously did an interesting evaluation on Maye for patriots.com, and now he's done one on Daniels. I enjoy reading his articles in particular because he provides short clips as examples of sometimes-complicated concepts he's discussing:

 

https://www.patriots.com/news/film-review-analyzing-jayden-daniels-s-fit-with-the-patriots

 

Film Review: Analyzing Jayden Daniels's Fit With the Patriots 

With the 2024 NFL Draft on the horizon, we are reviewing the top quarterbacks in this year's class and their fits in New England. 

Apr 11, 2024 at 06:00 AM

 

[excerpt]

 

What makes the Heisman Trophy winner a special prospect is his mobility. However, that shouldn't discount what is a very solid foundation as a passer for the 23-year-old.

 

Daniels's advanced age and the five seasons he played in college are often painted as a negative because he's closer to being maxed out in his development compared to Drake Maye (21.6) and J.J. McCarthy (21.2). However, the positive spin is that Daniels's 55 starts in college allowed him to develop as a passer, both mentally and mechanically. The LSU product has an efficient release, and his eyes, shoulders, hips, and feet are routinely in sync within the throwing hallway.

 

As a result, Daniels led the class with a +0.53 expected points added per drop-back and registered a +5.5 completion percentage over expected. His three-level accuracy in the traditional box score stats translated to a stellar 72.2% completion rate. Furthermore, Daniels posted a class-leading 63.3% adjusted completion rate on passes over 20 air yards.

 

Daniels's clean mechanics really show up when he's progressing through his reads. We mustn't resort to stereotypes with Daniels. Although he could be a tick faster through his progressions at times, Daniels will go from first read to check-down whenever necessary.

 

Edit: I previously posted the Maye evaluation, but here's the link again if anyone wants to compare:

https://www.patriots.com/news/film-review-analyzing-qb-drake-maye-s-fit-with-the-patriots

 

TLDR: Lazar likes both QBs but prefers Maye over Daniels. 

Edited April 14 by Dah-Dee

[Llevron]

30 minutes ago, Hooper said:

It's wild to read all this stuff from a lot coaches and execs saying Daniels is the clear number two and that Maye scares him and is probably QB 4 at this point... then come here.

 

I like all three of our options. None of them scream Zach Wilson or Trey Lance, that's for sure. 

Right? Like simple facts about his game. Can he go through his reads or not? Coaches, execs, past QBs everybody saying yea and he excels at it. Here? No but he can run fast if you are into that. 
 

****s silly