The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Est.1974]

4 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

Noted.

 

And Caleb, sure, JJ....eh....think he's got a very good resume' but not one of those who have him that quite far up the chain.

 

Lost souls we be, we will just have to hope whoever they take out of the list helps give us the sense we're s quality, always competitive team that threatens to at least win the division regularly enough as opposed to being a regular bottom dweller.

 

The problem I have is that JJ at #2 is questionable value. But I do think he could be massively underrated. That said, there are opinions flying in all directions…

 

All things said, we are in a great position to get a QB. We have to trust the FO process.

[Fred Jones]

Because I am not a NFL coach I simply say "can a QB consistently read NFL defenses pre and post snap through the season and make the plays when needed"

 

Coach Quinn explains it better - https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39874845/what-dan-quinn-wants-quarterback

 

"How quickly can they process something? 'OK, it looks like zone but it's really man-to-man. It's two-high [safeties], it's one high,'" Quinn said. "All the triggers you want to get to, can you do it after the ball gets in his hand? Can we disguise [defenses] to make them really have to figure it out after the snap? The best of the best? 'I can process as I'm taking the ball, as I'm going through the play.'

"That's what I look for. How do they respond when the unblocked blitzer comes?"

"How quickly can a guy make a right decision?" Quinn said. "How quickly can he speed up when a blitz is coming? How quickly can [he] anticipate when those things happen? So, I've really been mindful of watching and say not just the throwing motion or the accuracy, but what happens? Can you get out of a bad play?"

"With the quarterback you really have to watch every single play to say did he get them out of a bad play here in a run game? Did he, you know, move outside? So, it's not just the throws, you encompass everything," Quinn said. "Don't just look at the throws but look at an entire game. And then you'll really have an assessment about 'Did you scramble to remain a passer? Did you know sometimes a throw away was the best decision right here?' It wouldn't show that on the stat sheet, but that was actually a really good decision.

 

He also says:

Like any coach, Quinn wants to see mental and physical toughness, accuracy and arm strength. But he also knows how he likes to mess with quarterbacks as a defensive coordinator -- and, as a result, what he wants to see from them.

 

For me, as GMAP advised that a QB is the hardest position in sports to evaluate, the difficulty determining in a college QB what Quinn is looking for above and is the guy going to come in and put in the work to get better.  If the guy can't process quickly the NFL game - he is not an NFL QB.  All these pundits on all these sites and shows claim to know - but they fail every year to get it right.  I am wishing for some luck in our pick as well.

 

Outside of 1983, a number of these QB's will fail in the NFL.  Just plain statistics.

[actorguy1]

31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I hear you.  But Keim of course has a right to make a guess based on what he's hearing.  Breer is doing, Schefter among others based on whatever crumbs they hear at the proday.  Keim is doing it based on people he trusts, specific coaches, to make evaluations.   But he's not saying its definitive or this is who they will take because of it.  He's saying based on that info if he had to guess he'd guess Daniels.  That's all.  He also doesn't seem to think it will be McCarthy but doesn't elaborate.

 

Usually Keim doesn't spitball and sometimes he reveals later he knew more than he let on.  I gather he doesn't want to burn sources.  Maybe that point is in play here or maybe it isn't will see.

 

But if people ask him if he had to guess who would he guess?   It's OK for him to answer.  It's also OK for some to think coaches opinions are meaningless.  He clearly disagrees.  It's OK either way.

 

I know Keim mentioning Quinn had a decent shot at the job, some found irritable back at that time, and some dismissed it.  The parallels to me to that is simply based on what Keim is guessing I think there is at least a viable shot that they take Daniels.  They might take Maye.  And McCarthy feels more like a long shot.

 

But at a minimum at least for me I am not ruling out Daniels as a possiblity.  And it doesn't bother me that Keim has opined on it when asked.

 

 

 

 

Love and respect Keim as much as anyone here but when it comes to actually predicting who they will take in the ESPN mock draft every year he has missed. He is always in the ballpark but has not quite got it.

[Jumbo]

1 minute ago, DiscoBob said:

@Jumbo so if we draft Daniels, and it doesn't work out, I'm gonna need a refresher on the forum rules regarding I TOLD YOU SO posts. 

 

Main think to remember is tending to your supply of single malt scotch and relaxing edibles if you're so inclined. 

[actorguy1]

As discussed earlier:

 

 

 

[CapsSkins]

13 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I can’t get that logic at all, not for anyone picked at #2. Trade back if so and take a guy at #10 with a boat load of other picks…..

 

There's no point in trading back to take a guy who sucks just because you feel a 2 overall pick needs to start day 1.

 

Consider this thought experiment to illustrate the point: let's say you can draft Josh Allen, but for him to become Good Josh Allen, he needs to sit a year. If he's thrust into starting Day 1, he will stay Bad Josh Allen and bust. If he sits and develops, he will turn into perennial Pro Bowler Good Josh Allen. 

 

Would you take him at 2 overall and let him sit a year knowing you have good Josh Allen on the way? Or would you take him at #2 and force him to start and make him bust because of impatience? Or would you trade down to 10, get your boatload of picks, and draft QB4 whom you don't love as a prospect?

 

Not a hard decision for me. Rookie QBs need to learn a new offensive system, adjust to NFL defensive schemes and talent level, speed of the game, how to practice and take care of your body, adjust to off-field pressures, and more. It's a ton and being forced to perform as a starter on top of all of that is a huge ask. Just bc unicorns like Stroud can do it doesn't mean it's any less daunting.

 

Our entire team is going to take a year to instill a new culture and learn the offensive/defensive schemes. Let the rook redshirt and take the reins in Year 2 when everyone is familiar with the system and the roster is more ready to compete. By Year 4 the QB should be a star and the team a SB contender.

[WashingtonRedWolves]

47 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

That's far from an accurate, intelligent generalization of "the posts in this thread."

 

The pro/con evals of JD and DM have largely been pretty solid. If there's been one side more over the top in one way or another it's been the JD fans. We haven't had a bunch of Maye boosters come out of the woodwork to very assertively declare their choice but we sure have for JD. Which is fine, just keeping it real.

 

I've posted in here more than a few times that mis-characterizing discussions on this board in a demeaning manner is not ok.   

 

In the future quote the post(s) you are applying your criticisms to, and be specific in your critique. 😉

 

It will keep you from appearing to troll more than to discuss. 👍

 

It's good advice for everyone.

I think the problem is some of the anti-JD crew coming in with “RG3 this, bobblehead that, LSU has a superior team, he’s skinny”….that dilutes a lot of the substance of proper pro-con evals between the two. I mean **** I wanted DM, but there’s a lot of compelling video and expert analysis to like JD also…

Edited April 5 by WashingtonRedWolves

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

There's no point in trading back to take a guy who sucks just because you feel a 2 overall pick needs to start day 1.

I have a very hard time staying at #2 and redshirting a QB.

 

that #2 pick is probably worth 3 first rounders and 2 second rounders in a trade back to 11-13. 
 

you either draft a day a1 QB or screw someone big time in a trade, IMO.

[Conn]

18 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Bloody hell, who took the serious pills today. What a disappointing post.

I’m just saying to own it instead of acting like you’re above it all lol, I still think you’re a good poster. I enjoy your posts, you just strike a tone sometimes like you’re bemused by the silliness here, while contributing to it 

 

I probably didn’t mean to come across as harshly as it sounds like I may have 

[Going Commando]

21 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

The team we have now is probably best classified as good not great.  It has some major upside with guys like Luvu and Wagner.

 

I think the roster is still fairly weak, but the overall situation is not bad.  The jury is out on our front office and coaching staff, but I really like the early returns.  My gut take is that they are good.  I think Harris, Myers and company put a good leadership team together, and that Peters could be a potential star executive.  And I think Peters chose a good partner in Quinn, and that Quinn put a strong coaching staff together for next season.  That's at least half the battle of developing a rookie QB.  We'll see what happens, and I'm not going to lie, it'll shake my faith if they pick Daniels over Maye, but I have so much more confidence that this FO and coaching staff configuration can work than I've ever had before with this team.

 

As for the roster, it's a work in progress.  I think Peters did a good job finding high quality stop gaps like Wagner, Ertz, Mariota, Ekeler and our new edge rotation.  But we're light on foundation players and Jon Allen is the only true high upside stud left on our roster.  Hopefully that will change via drafting Drake Maye at #2, but we'll see.  But one thing that is encouraging is we have a handful of legitimately good players that can fill in the gaps between the great ones and be key parts of a contending team: Daron, Terry, Tress, BRob, Cosmi, Luvu, and Biadasz.  Maybe Juice and Jamin too.  And the books is not written on Forbes, Quan, or Jahan yet.  Those guys can get to the level of being good starters for a contender too.  If you've got ~12 good starters supporting three or four great ones, one of which is a QB, then you've probably got an honest contender.

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

Love and respect Keim as much as anyone here but when it comes to actually predicting who they will take in the ESPN mock draft every year he has missed. He is always in the ballpark but has not quite got it.

 

I think this is the 2nd time we are hitting this point in a recent exchange?

 

He doesn't pretend he knows exactly who they will pick but gives some options he knows they like.  Hard to nail it exactly when you are picking in the middle of the draft.  But there was only one dude here who guessed Jamin Davis would be their pick when the board did a contest on it.  That person was me.  Why did I guess it?  Keim.  He thought it was more likely to be JOK but thought Jamin was a strong possibility.

 

He mentioned they wanted Drake London if he was still there the next draft.  London was taken.  He said among the other receivers they can take, he mentioned Dotson.

 

He pretty much called to a tee their goals round by round in the last draft and indeed mentioned Forbes as a possibility.

 

Keim isn't some sort of Zeus who knows every move they are going to make.  But he's usually within the ballpark when he gives it a go.

 

And again Keim has not said that he knows what this team is going to do.  He flat out said he doesn't know.  He is just making a guess based on what other coaches think about these prospects that's all.

 

It's a testament by the way to Keim that it bothers some people   (not saying you).  The opposite of love is indifference.  If people here genuinely thought Keim was clueless I'd think they just ignore what he thinks versus react to it.  

Edited April 5 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

18 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

As discussed earlier:

 

If this is true, and Peters does love Maye specifically, then it would explain to me why he took the job here with five seconds of consideration.

[Est.1974]

7 minutes ago, Conn said:

I’m just saying to own it instead of acting like you’re above it all lol, I still think you’re a good poster. I enjoy your posts, you just strike a tone sometimes like you’re bemused by the silliness here, while contributing to it 

 

I probably didn’t mean to come across as harshly as it sounds like I may have 

Above it all….no that’s not my style at all….

[Llevron]

30 minutes ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

??? Which one is it? 

 

Both!?

 

But if you are being serious; im not saying you cant have other opinions than they do. I'm saying believing someone like Kiem is being played...feed bad info in an attempt to artificially raise JDs draft stock or some other conspiracy nonsense like that is laughable. In my opinion, anyway. Again, Kiem has specifically and repeatedly said what he is giving you is an educated guess and he does not have anything from the Commanders yet. These are not mutually exclusive ideas. 

3 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

If this is true, and Peters does love Maye specifically, then it would explain to me why he took the job here with five seconds of consideration.

 

Right cause he knew 100% he could get him. Makes all the sense in the world. 

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

If this is true, and Peters does love Maye specifically, then it would explain to me why he took the job here with five seconds of consideration.

I mean if that is true, you take Maye and go. 

[SkinsFTW]

7 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

If this is true, and Peters does love Maye specifically, then it would explain to me why he took the job here with five seconds of consideration.

 

That's pretty much the thought around here since he took the job.

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

Does our approach in FA suggest to you that year 1 is a given potential write off to this ownership group ? With all due respect, that is rubbish. Forget all these historic stats from years gone.

 

The Texans are immediately relevant, immediately. That is the blue print.

 

We are picking #2 and not ****ing about with a project. 
 

In my opinion, of course.

 

They are all projects. You can strike gold and get a guy who is immediately good - but more realistically they are ALL projects. Peyton Manning holds the NFL record for interceptions as a rookie.

[TheGoodBits]

28 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

As discussed earlier:

 

 

 

 

I can't find any link between Adam Peters and the current UNC coaching staff. Last time a team Peters worked for drafted a UNC player was 2013 when he was a scout for Denver, and the coaching staff for UNC was completely different. I'm also not sure why he would have been in North Carolina spending significant time scouting a presumptive top 5 QB while employed by San Francisco, who did not need a QB and was not going to be in position to draft top 5. 

I'm skeptical. 
 

 

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, Est.1974 said:

I mean if that is true, you take Maye and go. 

 

I'm sure that he did extensively scout Maye while he was in San Francisco, because traveling to schools and scouting star college players was the primary role of his job.  Maye was a known top five pick coming into this season, and he's a quarterback.  You do the work on players like this, even if your team won't realistically be in range to draft them.

 

I also think there is strong chance that he does love Maye.  I love Maye and think he's a super blue chip prospect, and if I can see it, then it's not surprising that an expert like Peters would see it.  But the decision to pick Maye at 2 isn't as simple as just taking the job and handing the card in on draft day for Peters.  He has to build a plan for Maye and then build consensus for him among the key members of the organization.  You have to sell ownership on him.  You have to get the coaching staff 100% on board.  But since he hired the coaching staff, you'd think part of that process was finding people that share his point of view on the game and are willing to buy in to his plans.

[Est.1974]

Just now, MartinC said:

 

They are all projects. You can strike gold and get a guy who is immediately good - but more realistically they are ALL projects. Peyton Manning holds the NFL record for interceptions as a rookie.

I’m fine with that. I’ll take a rookie throwing 20 INTs compared to one sat on the bench watching Mariota.

[Llevron]

In all honesty we should be trilled that the best GM on the market for the last few years has been scouting a particular QB for years and came here because he knew we had the pick to get him. 

 

I mean, be serious. Thats the dream scenario. 

[MartinC]

1 minute ago, Est.1974 said:

I’m fine with that. I’ll take a rookie throwing 20 INTs compared to one sat on the bench watching Mariota.

Oh for sure. I think its almost a lock whoever we pick at #2 will start day 1. But can imagine this Board after about 5 starts if whoever the pick is struggles ...

 

Got to look at this as a project and trust the process.

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

Im telling you. The ONLY (good) reason to invite Daniels and not Maye to the facility is because he is already ready to go with Maye and doesnt need to see much else.

 

I'm pretty sure we will bring in Maye for a Top 30 visit too which will make this line of thinking look silly but aside from that, this has gotta be one of the takes of all time.

 

You can't see any good reasons to bring in a QB your considering w/ a top #2 pick? Not one?

[Skinsinparadise]

34 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

As discussed earlier:

 

 

 

 

While I am rooting for this to be true.  Unless am missing something this is a fan draft web site.  With 8000 or so followers and no names attached to it.

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

In all honesty we should be trilled that the best GM on the market for the last few years has been scouting a particular QB for years and came here because he knew we had the pick to get him. 

 

I mean, be serious. Thats the dream scenario. 

 

Yes it is.  But Washington has been where dreams have gone to die for 30 years, so I'm not taking anything for granted.  Everything about the way this offseason has progressed since we finished with the #2 pick has been going according to the dream scenario for me.  We get the star GM candidate, we bring in a vet coaching staff, we trade Howell and clear the deck, we bring in a bunch of reliable vets, we fix the center position long term, we don't spend any dumb money in free agency chasing big names, we don't waste any draft capital.  Everything we've done as a team so far makes sense to me, and is pretty much how I would have done it myself if I'd been given the power.

 

But my lack of confidence in this franchise has me afraid of the rug pull on draft day.  That's why I'm still in wait and see mode.