The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[WashingtonRedWolves]

Question for the Jayden Daniels fans: Is Fields that much different? They seem to have similar skillsets to me. Yes, Jayden may be the better passer (but we haven't seen that at the NFL level), but the main draw with him has been his elite rushing ability/upside, something that Fields has already shown at the pro level. And a plus for Fields over JD is that he's bigger and probably more durable. I don't think it's that far-fetched to think that the problems ailing Fields can be improved with a proper coaching staff, which he has arguably not had in his time with the Bears, and he's still so young. If it all boils down to wanting the rookie contract and not paying big money for Fields after this year than that makes sense but I'm just wondering

 

I understand why those that want Maye would not go this route, but is trading for Fields/drafting MHJ that much worse than taking Daniels? I'm just saying, he could be dirt cheap in a trade right now. Definitely much cheaper than trading up for Williams at least.

Edited March 6 by WashingtonRedWolves

[Skinsinparadise]

Kelly did say he thinks problem solved with throwing with anticpation. But IMHO he doesn't throw much with anticipation.    Aside from the deep ball of course but naturally you have to throw the deep ball with anticipation.

 

Daniels is an exciting prospect. But IMO he has things to work on.  They all do. 

 

1 minute ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

Question for the Jayden Daniels fans: Is Fields that much different? They seem to have similar skillsets to me. Yes, Jayden may be the better passer (but we haven't seen that at the NFL level), but the main draw with him has been his elite rushing ability/upside, something that Fields has already shown at the pro level. And a plus for Fields over JD is that he's bigger and probably more durable. I don't think it's that far-fetched to think that the problems ailing Fields cannot be fixed with a proper coaching staff which he  has arguably not had in his time with the Bears. If it all boils down to wanting the rookie contract and not paying big money for Fields after this year than that makes sense but I'm just wondering

 

I understand why those that want Maye would not go this route, but is trading for Fields/drafting MHJ that much worse than taking Daniels? I'm just saying, he could be dirt cheap in a trade right now. Definitely much cheaper than trading up for Williams at least

 

Both special as runners.  

 

I like Daniels over Fields mainly because IMHO he processes quicker and has a quicker more compact release.

 

The odd thing to me about Fields also is consistency, it varies so much from game to game.  At least as to a college player, Daniels is more consistent.

 

Both quiet dudes, nice guys

 

 

Edited March 6 by Skinsinparadise

[woodpecker]

18 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

He is absolutely bottom 5 as a passer. You can’t sustain offense with a guy who is consistently bottom 3 in accuracy. There is a reason the Bears are struggling to even get a 3rd for him. 

Bottom five as a passer does not equal bottom five QB. He’s running has shown to be elite. His leadership is not in question. His passing yes, while definitely better than the bottom 5 imo, is still a work in progress. To me, he gets some benefit of the doubt for having played with bad OL‘s, bad receivers other than one year of DJ, and bad coaching.

If fields, Howell, and whatever lower tier QB we draft this year all bombed out, well then at least we have a better roster and plenty of draft capital for AP to work his magic and find us one. If Maye or Daniels is a bust, then we are nowhere and will have squandered an opportunity to add several top end players on Rookie salaries for the next couple years.

Again, I’m just saying it’s an option. You don’t like fields at all, so I wouldn’t expect you to be on board. Taking May is still probably the move, but these discussions should be had since we know it’s out there that AP is considering all options.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I keep trying to run mock drafts without trades. A couple of weeks ago, it was nearly impossible to get a simulation to run where we got offered a trade-down for #2.

 

The last few days I keep getting offered ARZ #4, #27, #35 for #2 so they can draft MHJ. And it leaves Daniels there at #4 every time.

 

I know it won't happen, but that would be pretty sweet, especially if we like Daniels/Maye/McCarthy in a similar vein. That draft haul would set this franchise up for some serious long-term contention, and we'd still have our "choice" at the QB spot there (assuming the choice is equal among the 3).

 

And for the record, I would think we'd flip #27 and #35 to move back up into the Top 15 to land one of the stud LTs, and we'd still pick #36 and #40.

Edited March 6 by JamesMadisonSkins

[DogofWar1]

The Spic- er...Scuttlebutt must flow!

 

 

[BayouBrave86]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Some reporters say they heard that personnel guys are saying Maye is going 2nd and is the 2nd best Qb in this draft.

 

Some reporters say they heard that personnel guys are saying Daniels is going 2nd and is the 2nd best Qb in this draft.

 

Some dratniks even say Maye deserves to be the top QB in this draft

 

Some dratniks even say Daniels deserves to be the top QB in this draft

 

Keim (who I consider the most credible about the team) thinks it could go either way with this team.

 

We got another month and half of this. 

 

The other month and half debate is could they trade down?  Keim among others doesn't think they will.  But it behooves the team to leak that they are open to it.  So we will get another story or two that its possible.  Something will pop up like they really dig Bo Nix or whatever.  So we got more trade down debates am sure on the way albiet I'd be shocked if they do it.

 

I find in the media the ones who push Daniels (not all but enough of them) tend to be more obnoxious and authortative about their point as if they are absolutely right.  Even Simms is acting like that which he usually doesn't.  It gives me nightmate flashbacks to the Haskins push years ago when some of the same dudes like Orlovosky and Riddick were sure Haskins was going to be great and part of me thinks that's partly why Dan overrode his scouts because it gave him more fuel to fit his predispostions.  But if you recall during those times, some, especially Riddick, came off with total authority on pushing Haskins.  No doubt. 

 

And this isn't some subtle slam at their credibility because Haskins (RIP) failed mightly.  Anyone including them could be right or wrong.   They might be right this time.  No way to know.  But coming from a dude who pushed Daniels here weeks before it became cool - am trying to not let that over the top authortative stuff turn me off to the kid .  It reminds me of the RG3 zealots and lol I was one of them, took me years to deprogram myself. . And ironically the RG3 stuff was so intense that it bleed with some into being Kirk haters.  Not me on that front, I liked Kirk.  But it was dysfunctional with fans and apparently bled into our most dysfunctional douchebag fan in Dan Snyder. 

 

Back on topic, as to Daniels.  And look Daneils fans here be kind because its just me wondering not making a statement because I don't know.  With the Riddick comments about Daniels coming out of his shell and that he's overcoming some personal issue.  Some of the ASU players celebrating when he left their team.  An ASU coach referring to him as being majorly shy.  And then in contrast Breer among others touting Maye's leadership and personality.  I wonder (wonder don't know) if this becomes an X factor if this team sees both players as close.  Even Sheehan who worships Daniels wondered about the personality-shy factor.  Bob Myers was at the interviews and I know he's big on personality-leadership.

 

But I'll say the one thing I love about how obnoxiously over the top some of the media folks are about Daniels is if they are right, then wow, that would be awesome if they took him because they will fuel some desperately needed fan mania.  We'd get that RG3 level attention in the off season.  Flashbacks to 2012 in a good way as to buzz.    So that would be a ton of fun.  I don't think the buzz would be the same with Maye albiet i am still a Maye guy if I had to pick.  But I'd genuinely get a big kick out of the Daniels buzz.  The interest in this team is flat national wide.  

 

But in the meantime, the reason some in the media turn me off has nothing to do with Daniels.  It's 100% about how I recall how all of them were royally wrong about plenty of other QBs in the past.  So it's beyond me how they can feel this level authoratative about their opinions.  I got for example Sheehan touting Merril Hoge about how he's typically right about QBs.  And I am thinking dude, just google the dude and spend 5 minutes looking at his record on this -- and you'll find his track record is atrocious and probably even worse at getting it right than name the average fan.  I recall him back from the RG3 >>> Luck days but it goes well beyond that as I posted days back.

I think that’s much more an indictment on the ASU players and how much of a clown bunch they were. They were trashing his locker and filming it. Who does that?
 

Jayden was LSU’s leader through and through this past season on a team full of alphas and two other first round picks. Is he a Burrow level leader? No, I don’t think he is and never will be but he can be the franchise guy and command the respect of his team and lead them far. 

[SoCalSkins]

11 minutes ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

Question for the Jayden Daniels fans: Is Fields that much different? They seem to have similar skillsets to me. Yes, Jayden may be the better passer (but we haven't seen that at the NFL level), but the main draw with him has been his elite rushing ability/upside, something that Fields has already shown at the pro level. And a plus for Fields over JD is that he's bigger and probably more durable. I don't think it's that far-fetched to think that the problems ailing Fields can be improved with a proper coaching staff, which he has arguably not had in his time with the Bears, and he's still so young. If it all boils down to wanting the rookie contract and not paying big money for Fields after this year than that makes sense but I'm just wondering

 

I understand why those that want Maye would not go this route, but is trading for Fields/drafting MHJ that much worse than taking Daniels? I'm just saying, he could be dirt cheap in a trade right now. Definitely much cheaper than trading up for Williams at least.

You trade for field you have to give him a contract extension that averages 35 mil or more a year. You are out a draft pick and you can’t cut him unless you pull a Denver move like they did with Russ.
 

Otherwise you are correct, they are equally worthless players.  That’s the problem with Daniels as well he might give you a few flashes so year after year you will wait around for him not to suck like Fields, but in reality they both suck. 
 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

59 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Interesting nugget about Peters and Maye -- if its true.  If its true that's who they are taking because I've heard multiple times its his call.  Having said that I am running with Keim's take which is that they are undecided.

So this is one of those times when I think Keim can’t get the real information, and what he’s being told by everybody might not be accurate.

 

I think they absolutely have a lean.  Possibly a strong lean.  That doesn’t mean the process is complete because they’re going to want to bring the guys in and talk to them more.  
 

But I’d be shocked if at this point they didn’t know what they would do if the draft was tomorrow.  The other thing Keim has said is these guys are exceedingly tight lipped.  I don’t believe any of the reporting about “other executives believe xyz.”  Because there is no way they have let other executives know their thinking.  That’s being fed by agents and personal agendas.

 

The reality is Peters and Quinn probably have a very good idea of what they want to do, and they will let the rest of the process play out to either confirm or change their mind.  But they ain’t gonna tell nobody what they are thinking, so they’ll keep playing dumb.  

[mac8887]

21 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

We got shredded by Desmond Ridder and Tommy Devito too. Doesn't mean jack. Our D was historically trash.

Yes I ageee, the d was bad, but those guys don’t have the physical tools he has. If he was as bad as you say, Chicago would’ve replaced him last year. He has all the ability in the world, height, strength, big arm, speed, elusiveness. This is why even with his low competition percentage, some team will have him as their starting QB this year.

 

Having Moore is great but he is more of a downfield threat which requires a more difficult throw.

 

What He desperately needs is a top tier pass catcher out of the backfield or a true safety net TE to succeed, someone that consistently gets him easy competitions. more than likely he needs both.

 

The more probable outcome is it doesn’t get much better for him, and eventually he runs out of teams willing to pencil him as there starting QB, but I wouldn’t write him off as a bust just yet. He is still very young and has put enough good play on tape to warrant some hope, if that were not the case, we would’ve never have heard the Chicago faithful screaming “we want Fields” at was was most likely his final home game in Chicago.

[Rolo Tomasie]

Agree that they likely have a lean, but the Pro Days and other personal meetings still to come will have a chance to change that leaning. I mean they still don't even have Daniels' accurate height and weight, 40 times (what if Daniels runs a 4.4 and Maye a 4.8-4.9)?

[illone]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Good lord stop the madness. Fields sucks. Why trade for a bottom 5 QB when we have one on the roster already?

 

I’d rather roll with Howell another year than make a run at Fields… 

[SoCalSkins]

3 minutes ago, Rolo Tomasie said:

Agree that they likely have a lean, but the Pro Days and other personal meetings still to come will have a chance to change that leaning. I mean they still don't even have Daniels' accurate height and weight, 40 times (what if Daniels runs a 4.4 and Maye a 4.8-4.9)?

Then you trade back. You don’t use 2nd overall on a guy Peters has a 5th round grade on a year ago regardless of the athletic measurements/body size. 

[illone]

Just now, SoCalSkins said:

Then you trade back. You don’t use 2nd overall on a guy Peters has a 5th round grade on a year ago regardless of the athletic measurements/body size. 

 

You’re a ucla guy which means you watched plenty of Jayden Daniels when he was at ASU under Herm.  He stunk. 
 

granted you cant ignore the improvement, but you also cant ignore that horrendous tape either. 

[Command The 414]

55 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

He is absolutely bottom 5 as a passer. You can’t sustain offense with a guy who is consistently bottom 3 in accuracy. There is a reason the Bears are struggling to even get a 3rd for him. 

Just my opinion … for QB play last season here is a list of teams that had worse QB play then the Bears with Fields :

 

Commanders

Titans

Steelers

Cards

Jets

Vikings (after Cousins went down)

Giants

Pats

Seahawks

Colts

Panthers

Falcons

 

not  bottom 5 imho was Fields…. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 6 by Command The 414

[SoCalSkins]

2 minutes ago, illone said:

 

You’re a ucla guy which means you watched plenty of Jayden Daniels when he was at ASU under Herm.  He stunk. 
 

granted you cant ignore the improvement, but you also cant ignore that horrendous tape either. 

He had Auyuk and another decent receiver there. The guy is fast but is a toothpick and will snap like a twig in the NFL He’s a very good college player not an NFL player in my opinion. 
 

 

Edited March 6 by SoCalSkins

[mistertim]

I know Keim tends to be a bit more plugged in than most, but we also have to remember that this is a completely new FO and ownership, so what he's getting may in reality be much less than he has in the past.

[illone]

6 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

He had Auyuk and another decent receiver there. The guy is fast but is a toothpick and will snap like a twig in the NFL He’s a very good college player not an NFL player in my opinion. 
 

 

they had Pearsall and Johnny Wilson before they both portaled out. 
 

I agree. Not an NFL player. If the commanders draft him I will want to know who drugged the staff. 

[SoCalSkins]

1 minute ago, illone said:

they had Pearsall and Johnny Wilson before they both portaled out. 
 

I agree. Not an NFL player. If the commanders draft him I will want to know who drugged the staff. 

On the other hand I watched almost every game Caleb played in as well. I would trade up in a second for that guy despite the fact I wanted him to fail on every snap at USC. Dude is good.  

[Skinsinparadise]

26 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So this is one of those times when I think Keim can’t get the real information, and what he’s being told by everybody might not be accurate.

 

I think they absolutely have a lean.  Possibly a strong lean.  That doesn’t mean the process is complete because they’re going to want to bring the guys in and talk to them more.  
 

But I’d be shocked if at this point they didn’t know what they would do if the draft was tomorrow.  The other thing Keim has said is these guys are exceedingly tight lipped.  I don’t believe any of the reporting about “other executives believe xyz.”  Because there is no way they have let other executives know their thinking.  That’s being fed by agents and personal agendas.

 

The reality is Peters and Quinn probably have a very good idea of what they want to do, and they will let the rest of the process play out to either confirm or change their mind.  But they ain’t gonna tell nobody what they are thinking, so they’ll keep playing dumb.  

 

When Keim was pushed a few days ago he said Maye but felt it was close.  But he doesn't think that they made up their minds.  They are a methodical take their time type of FO.

[illone]

6 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

On the other hand I watched almost every game Caleb played in as well. I would trade up in a second for that guy despite the fact I wanted him to fail on every snap at USC. Dude is good.  

 

we’re on the same page. The value for the pick is probably less than chicago wants, though. I would not part ways with an additional first round pick and Chicago probably wants multiple first rounders. That seems too steep of a price to move up one spot. 

 

[SoCalSkins]

Just now, illone said:

 

we’re on the same page. The value for the pick is probably less than chicago wants, though. I would not part ways with an additional first round pick and Chicago probably wants multiple first rounders. That seems too steep of a price to move up one spot. 

 

I would give a 2 and Jon Allen or both 2s. No future firsts. 

[skinzplay]

Never doubt Keim. He knows, he really knows. And unlike others, he doesn't feel the need to tweet or blab everything he knows. That's why his sources trust him. Nobody is plugged in any better to this team than he is, nobody -- not even the unethical egomaniac who pays family members, college teammates and roommates, or hospital staff for player information. The new ownership and coaches trust Keim too. And his journalistic discipline thus far only reinforces that.

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, woodpecker said:

For me he’s an easy upgrade over Howell.

For me he is not. Fields has never had anything close to the passing season Howell just did in his first year as a starter. Is Fields a more dynamic runner? Yep. But his passing game is most definitely in the lower third of the league. And apparently GM's across the league agree with that assessment as they are not lining up to trade anything ither than a ham sammich for the guy.

Edited March 6 by clskinsfan

[The Consigliere]

13 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

 

Heard him on Russilo say that yesterday. It's so weird, there seems to be completely opposite takes on how these QB's are stacked between McShay and other sources. I don't tend to agree w/McShay here, but honestly, its basically because I've seen two other sources, also respectable, say the exact opposite, and the profiles of the prospects suggest to me its far more likely that Maye is the 1A, 1B guy, then the separate tier guy. But, maybe I'm wrong, wouldn't be the first time NFL GM's prove to be idiots in terms of consensus (in my opinion, of course, certainly could come to cross that I'm the idiot). 

[woodpecker]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

We got shredded by Desmond Ridder and Tommy Devito too. Doesn't mean jack. Our D was historically trash.

Ridder had two TDs and three picks. Put up 16 points in a loss against us. Yes, 307 yards isn’t bad, but they were playing catch-up. 

Fields 4 TDs zero picks. And 57 yd rushing. 282 pass yards playing with the lead where they ran most of the 2nd half.

 

only one of those would I call “shredded”

53 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

You trade for field you have to give him a contract extension that averages 35 mil or more a year. You are out a draft pick and you can’t cut him unless you pull a Denver move like they did with Russ.
 

I don’t think you do. You have him for two years, for the cost of a low third round pick. The Russell Wilson situation was very different because of what they gave up to get him.