The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[CommanderInTheRye]

 

Why is “Sam Howell” trending nationally on twitter er “X’?

 

 

 

 

 

[redskinss]

5 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

So lets take Kurt out of it. 

 

Daniel Jeremiah who people seem to respect just told JP Finlay while he has Maye at 2, he also thinks Maye is the toughest eval of the 3 QBs, opinions are varied and his tape wasn't very good this year. 

 

So a respected scout saying that Maye is the toughest evaluation of them all means there are probably tons of varying opinions on him. 

 

This I agree with.

He definitely seems to be the most polarizing of the prospects, even friends I talk to are really split on him.

I am too to be honest, on the one hand I see a very fluid athlete that strikes me as having all the tools to succeed but on the other I see where the critics are very possibly correct.

It's gonna be a tough decision. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 28 by redskinss

[NOLA2DC]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

This is lying season, and we won't know who the choice is for a while. Remember Quinn got to the Bowl with Ryan and Peters just there with Purdy after going all in on Lance. 

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, NOLA2DC said:

This is lying season, and we won't know who the choice is for a while. Remember Quinn got to the Bowl with Ryan and Peters just there with Purdy after going all in on Lance. 

 

I doubt he's lying. Most coaches nowadays recognize the fact that a QB who is also athletic and mobile is a major plus. Also, it's not like saying that is tipping his hand at all, as all 3 of the top QBs of this class are very mobile.

[ThatNFLChick]

4 minutes ago, redskinss said:

 

This I agree with.

He definitely seems to be the most polarizing of the prospects, even friends I talk to are really split on him.

I am too to be honest, on the one hand I see a very fluid athlete that strikes me as having all the tools to succeed but on the other I see where the critics are very possibly correct.

It's gonna be a very tough decision. 

 

 

 

If we take him, and again I will support if we do, I just hope we have a really rock solid, well thought out plan where if he starts right away we run the ball a ton and ease him in and hope we can fix his mechanics while the season is going on. 

 

I don't think anyone can argue that a part of what happened with Sam Howell last season is he started to struggle, then he lost his confidence which made all of his bad habits even worse. 

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

If we take him, and again I will support if we do, I just hope we have a really rock solid, well thought out plan where if he starts right away we run the ball a ton and ease him in and hope we can fix his mechanics while the season is going on. 

 

I don't think anyone can argue that a part of what happened with Sam Howell last season is he started to struggle, then he lost his confidence which made all of his bad habits even worse. 

 

His biggest issue with mechanics is he gets sloppy sometimes on shorter drops and passes. You don't get a 99 clean pocket PFF grade with overall ****ty mechanics. This whole thing is a bit overplayed. Sort of like Daniels getting constantly rocked. Has it happened? Yes. Does it happen a ton? No. Is it a concern still? Sure, but probably not as much as some may think.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Kind of encapsulates my “what if we don’t absolutely love a guy” feelings. 
 

 

[mac8887]

Just now, ThatNFLChick said:

 

If we take him, and again I will support if we do, I just hope we have a really rock solid, well thought out plan where if he starts right away we run the ball a ton and ease him in and hope we can fix his mechanics while the season is going on. 

 

I don't think anyone can argue that a part of what happened with Sam Howell last season is he started to struggle, then he lost his confidence which made all of his bad habits even worse. 

Maye looks very high strung and jumpy in a lot of his film, it’s like the game is moving to fast for him, but he is able to overcome with his amazing arm talent and mobility. It’s probably one of the biggest reasons for his inaccuracy issues and his footwork. There really isn’t a smoothness that you see in his game that the great ones have. It showed really bad in that NC state game and in the Clemson game. 
 

In one way that’s terrifying because the NFL game is even faster, on the other hand, if it ever slows down for him, he has all the traits to be a top 5 qb consistently year after year. It is a tough decision to make because of those elite traits, if our coach truly thinks he can coach him up, then he has got to pick him, not just pick him, but run the ticket up. 

[ThatNFLChick]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

His biggest issue with mechanics is he gets sloppy sometimes on shorter drops and passes. You don't get a 99 clean pocket PFF grade with overall ****ty mechanics. This whole thing is a bit overplayed. Sort of like Daniels getting constantly rocked. Has it happened? Yes. Does it happen a ton? No. Is it a concern still? Sure, but probably not as much as some may think.

 

Oh I think Daniels getting hit is probably most teams biggest concern with him along with his weight (which obviously are related).

[NOLA2DC]

13 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I doubt he's lying. Most coaches nowadays recognize the fact that a QB who is also athletic and mobile is a major plus. Also, it's not like saying that is tipping his hand at all, as all 3 of the top QBs of this class are very mobile.

I'm not saying specifically him, but this is the time of year when many people make wild assertions. Such as Malik Willis will be a 1st round pick and other stuff that leads to guys being left in the green room.  

[RWJ]

7 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

If we take him, and again I will support if we do, I just hope we have a really rock solid, well thought out plan where if he starts right away we run the ball a ton and ease him in and hope we can fix his mechanics while the season is going on. 

 

I don't think anyone can argue that a part of what happened with Sam Howell last season is he started to struggle, then he lost his confidence which made all of his bad habits even worse. 

An upgrade to our OL, QB and OC is needed.  You don't gameplan by run the ball 25% of the time and throw it the other 75%.  You don't put the quality of OL out there, poorly coached that don't fit your scheme. Both had its effects on Howell and caused his game to spiral downward.  Big mistake.  Kliff Kingsburg must develop a game plan that works and Peters must put together an OL that protects our QB whoever that will be.  IMO, most of Howell's bad play was due to a poor and injured OL and coaching and poor game planning by EB.  QB, OC and the OL need to be upgraded.  

7 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Kind of encapsulates my “what if we don’t absolutely love a guy” feelings. 
 

 

That's why I think Howell is traded IF we get an offer, late 2nd or 10 picks into the 3rd and draft another QB.  

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Oh I think Daniels getting hit is probably most teams biggest concern with him along with his weight (which obviously are related).

 

Those things are certainly concerns, but I'm just saying that the idea that he got rocked over and over again in college isn't really true. It's just that when he did, it looked really bad. So how many of those would it take in the NFL to potentially injure him? Could be only 1.

[RWJ]

3 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Oh I think Daniels getting hit is probably most teams biggest concern with him along with his weight (which obviously are related).

That and JD has already suffered a concussion.  Yes, many QBs have in CFB and in the Pros but when you have suffered one your more apt to get another one quicker than a QB that has never suffered from one.  Jayden Daniels Injury History & Updates (draftsharks.com) Multiple Concussions: Long-Term Effects and Treatment Options (cognitivefxusa.com)

[ThatNFLChick]

13 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Kind of encapsulates my “what if we don’t absolutely love a guy” feelings. 
 

 

 

I mean, right now I am about 70/30 in favor of thinking they take a QB. But it is possible they find someone they love that will go a little later. Maybe they are willing to go down to 8 with Atlanta and take someone like JJ McCarthy there. 

 

Again right now I think its unlikely but I am not straight up ruling it out. I think the Patriots are far more likely to trade out then we are. 

[kingdaddy]

11 minutes ago, RWJ said:

An upgrade to our OL, QB and OC is needed.  You don't gameplan by run the ball 25% of the time and throw it the other 75%.  You don't put the quality of OL out there, poorly coached that don't fit your scheme. Both had its effects on Howell and caused his game to spiral downward.  Big mistake.  Kliff Kingsburg must develop a game plan that works and Peters must put together an OL that protects our QB whoever that will be.  IMO, most of Howell's bad play was due to a poor and injured OL and coaching and poor game planning by EB.  QB, OC and the OL need to be upgraded.  

That's why I think Howell is traded IF we get an offer, late 2nd or 10 picks into the 3rd and draft another QB.  

Maybe Spencer Rattler?

[CarlH]

I didn't read all responses but Sam Howell checks all the boxes for what Quinn mentioned. Tough, hangs in the pocket, make all the throws, has a bit of mobility, didn't have a run game, etc

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I mean, right now I am about 70/30 in favor of thinking they take a QB. But it is possible they find someone they love that will go a little later. Maybe they are willing to go down to 8 with Atlanta and take someone like JJ McCarthy there. 

 

Again right now I think its unlikely but I am not straight up ruling it out. I think the Patriots are far more likely to trade out then we are. 

 

I'm at about 95/5. Is it possible they don't take a QB at 2? Yes. Likely? Not at all. New ownership, new FO, clean slate, #2 overall pick in a top heavy QB class with several blue chip talents available, and with QB being the single most important thing to having a consistently winning franchise.

 

The only way you don't go QB at 2 in that situation is if you either really don't like the top QBs that will be available to you or you really like one of the guys who will be there later.

 

Either way, if you don't take a QB at 2 in that situation, you better be right. Because if you're wrong and the guy you could have taken at 2 ends up a stud and you're stuck in mediocrity, your job (and maybe even career) is gone.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

@mistertim 100%. Although same could be said about sticking at 2 and drafting the wrong guy. So I’ll just support whatever they choose to do. But if they trade down my guess is they analytically prefer the idea of many picks and taking a shot (or shots) at QB later on.

 

In theory, if you traded with ATL and for 1-2-3 and a 2025 1-3 … you could load up the roster (OL and weapons) with all the extra picks and take 1-2 shots on QBs over next 2 years. Or just go McCarthy at 8. Or Rattler at 67 and if neither he or Howell thrive hit QB next year (Beck, Ewers, etc) while adding multiple additional high round picks. Idk. Food for thought. 
 

Im mostly playing this out as a jusrification IF this FO trades down. I’d say it’s 80/20 they pick Daniels or Maye at 2 

Edited February 28 by JamesMadisonSkins

[MartinC]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Ryan blows Vick out of the water.

 

By the way, Maye is a southern boy too, so he could also fit what the city of Altanta whats. But methinks Raheem was trying to appeal to the African American demographic down in the Atl.

I know, I was tounge in cheek. Ryan did blow Vick out of the water as the Falcons QB over his career. 

[mistertim]

14 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

@mistertim 100%. Although same could be said about sticking at 2 and drafting the wrong guy. So I’ll just support whatever they choose to do. But if they trade down my guess is they analytically prefer the idea of many picks and taking a shot (or shots) at QB later on.

 

In theory, if you traded with ATL and for 1-2-3 and a 2025 1-3 … you could load up the roster (OL and weapons) with all the extra picks and take 1-2 shots on QBs over next 2 years. Or just go McCarthy at 8. Or Rattler at 67 and if neither he or Howell thrive hit QB next year (Beck, Ewers, etc) while adding multiple additional high round picks. Idk. Food for thought. 
 

Im mostly playing this out as a jusrification IF this FO trades down. I’d say it’s 80/20 they pick Daniels or Maye at 2 

 

I think taking a shot at a blue chip prospect at 2 and missing is far more forgivable than playing it safe and trading down and missing out on a guy who becomes a stud.

[Conn]

49 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think taking a shot at a blue chip prospect at 2 and missing is far more forgivable than playing it safe and trading down and missing out on a guy who becomes a stud.

Absolutely. It is extremely common to swing on a blue chip QB and have him bust for various reasons. Failing with good process happens. You can still find success as long as you have good process; the good outcomes will follow eventually. Process > outcome, over the long haul. Meanwhile, it’s extremely uncommon to not take a QB in our clean slate organizational situation—so if the guy you chose not to take hits big for someone else and you flounder in mediocrity, you’ve got bad process resulting in bad outcome. That’s unforgivable. 

[RWJ]

30 minutes ago, Conn said:

Absolutely. It is extremely common to swing on a blue chip QB and have him bust for various reasons. Failing with good process happens. You can still find success as long as you have good process; the good outcomes will follow eventually. Process > outcome, over the long haul. Meanwhile, it’s extremely uncommon to not take a QB in our clean slate organizational situation—so if the guy you chose not to take hits big for someone else and you flounder in mediocrity, you’ve got bad process resulting in bad outcome. That’s unforgivable. 

Exactly, Conn.  The 9ers, Lynch/Peters gave up this to move up for Trey Lance:

 

What did the 49ers trade for Trey Lance? Revisiting the draft picks San Francisco surrendered to select QB in 2021 | Sporting News

 

What did the 49ers trade for Trey Lance?

49ers get:

2021 first-round pick (No. 3 overall)

 

 

Dolphins get:

2021 first-round pick (No. 12 overall)

2022 first-round pick (No. 29 overall)

2022 third-round pick (No. 101 overall)

2023 first-round pick (No. 29 overall)

 

The 49ers gave up a king's ransom to move up from the 12th pick in the 2021 NFL Draft to select Trey Lance.

 

 

We give up our own #2 and nothing else to take a shot a one of the big three QBs.  

Edited February 28 by RWJ

[illone]

4 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Did Peters give off a vibe either way on what he thinks about Howell? I think it's really interesting that there are reports of teams being interested in Sam this early in the offseason. 

I took it as a very positive vibe. 
 

basically said they took a long walk in the park 😂

i got a similar vibe when DQ was asked a similar question. 
 

Both widely available on youtube, i’d be curious if others got the same vibe…

[gooseneck]

Washington Commanders: Daniels to meet with Commanders on Wednesday (usatoday.com)

[Renegade7]

2 hours ago, MartinC said:

I know, I was tounge in cheek. Ryan did blow Vick out of the water as the Falcons QB over his career. 

 

Vick probably will get credit one day with why there are so many starting QBs in the NFL today that can run to the point that it almost is expected along with being able to pass.

 

What he accomplished while still being a trash QB as a passer and probably never starting if he didn't have that otherworldly talent with his legs DID change the NFL as we know it, we jus didn't know it yet.

 

Vick killed the pocket passer, now the goal is someone that can run and throw because how much he did with jus his legs that someone great at both could be unstoppable.

 

I don't know if we get to Mahomes without Vick.  What could've been if Reeves didnr give in to letting him be so run first and forced him to learn how to be a QB like Andy Reid did (by then it was too late, but the Monday Night Massacre was glimpse of what could've been and frankly what we take for granted in today's NFL).

1 hour ago, Conn said:

Absolutely. It is extremely common to swing on a blue chip QB and have him bust for various reasons. Failing with good process happens. You can still find success as long as you have good process; the good outcomes will follow eventually. Process > outcome, over the long haul. Meanwhile, it’s extremely uncommon to not take a QB in our clean slate organizational situation—so if the guy you chose not to take hits big for someone else and you flounder in mediocrity, you’ve got bad process resulting in bad outcome. That’s unforgivable. 

 

I'm here because we jus tried that and made that point under Rivera.

 

How many of these franchise that turned themselves around or did it quickly did so without a clear answer at QB?

 

Houston made the playoffs because of hitting on Stroud, Bengals went to the Super Bowl by hitting on Burrow.