The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[HTTRDynasty]

Arm talent:

 

 

[illone]

Seems like JJ is already pushing into the top 10 in some NFL circles…

 

 

 

[clskinsfan]

8 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Arm talent:

 

 

And he has gotten way better since then. He generates the same power from a bunch of different arm angles now. The guy is just dangerous. My only issue with him is ball security while scrambling. And it is a big one. But that is coachable as well. 

[The Consigliere]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Coming from one of the bigger McCarthy fans, i don't think its his size that's holding him back from the top 3.

 

But arm strength and the fact that Michigan didn't feature him enough to showcase his skills as much as the others.

I'd go with the latter. I think his arm strength is fine. It's not plus plus insanity like Elway style or whatever, but it is plenty fine. I think the huge concern people have is that they did not see him do much because Harbaugh was more "built this team around defense and the run game" w/rent a QB's seemingly every year. We just don't know what he is because he wasn't asked to do enough and Michigan didn't need anything at all most games by the mid 2nd quarter. 

 

The worry, for me, is....We don't know how good he is AND we know that when had Luck 13, 14, 15 years ago etc, he absolutely did use Luck's arm talent. So why didn't he use McCarthy's? We just don't know. 

 

So McCarthy is a question mark in a way that Williams, Maye and Daniels aren't. All 3 of them were absolutely used to build explosive passing games. So we know what they can do, at least at the college level. We don't really have a clue at McCarthy at the college level let alone the pro level, though he was good at everything that was asked of him. Arm strength isn't something I'm worried about. 

[HTTRDynasty]

@turtle

 

Well, I think Kliff — I think Kliff can use what he has and adjust a little bit with his offense. I don’t think it’s super, super rigid.

 

But I know over everything else you talk about guys that can get through things quickly and get the ball out and get it out accurately. So I think you can look at all these guys. I think all three of them would fit. I don’t think that there’s anybody you look at between those three and say Kliff couldn’t work with them.

 

I think you get mobility with all three. You get guys that are all three of them by everything I’ve been told are really, really bright, really, really smart guys. To me it’s more about kind of the ceiling of what you think they can be.

 

Drake Maye with just having a little more prototypical size and playing in a rugged division, I think that might be more of a decision-making point more so maybe than the offense would be.

 

You know, the location and the division and playing outdoors in Washington. That to me would lean a little bit more towards Drake Maye.

Edited February 24 by HTTRDynasty

[CommanderInTheRye]

2 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Things that were said about Zach Wilson during the draft process:

• He was very Mahomes and Rodgers-like
• Phenomenal arm talent and strength
• He could make every throw and then some
• Huge ability to throw off platform
• Scrambling around the pocket and then throwing 50 yard bombs down the field
• All the Mahomes-like arm angles he used

 

That is objectively sobering.

 

It's also a stark reminder that what we say here, no matter the passion or sincerity, is subject to human frailty.

 

Nothing is certain.

 

We all have our opinions on which of the 2 quarterbacks likely available at pick two (3 if you include JJ) that we'd prefer to have as our new signal caller.

 

Some of us are more forceful in who we advocate for and some of us are more reserved.

 

Personally, I have gone back and forth at least twice and right now I am honestly uncertain what I would do-- although I do lean slightly towards one player over the other.

 

But again, it is absolutely sobering to think that no matter who we choose, there is an unpredictable historic possibility that he could be a bust.

 

In fact, of the top 3 qbs (including Caleb Williams) the chances are that one will be a complete failure, one will be an average starting qb and if we're lucky one might become a top 10 quarterback.

 

Then again they could all be superstars or they could all be out of the league in 4 years.

 

--sigh--

 

I guess that's why Adam Peters gets paid the big bucks.

 

 

Edited February 24 by CommanderInTheRye

[Est.1974]

Rugged NFCE Division…it’s not the 90s.

[method man]

2 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I can't keep up with whether people think strength of schedule and how they play tough opponents should count or not on this board. It seems to be vary depending on the player. 

 

But it was stuff like this that made Zach Wilson shoot up boards:

 

 

 

There is nuance. Zach teamed up with multiple future NFL players (Allgeier, Milne as examples) backed by a great coach to beat up on the likes of UTSA, Troy and Louisiana Tech. With Maye, he teamed up w an ACC roster to play an ACC schedule. Daniels teamed up w a SEC roster to play a SEC schedule

[mistertim]

35 minutes ago, method man said:

There is nuance. Zach teamed up with multiple future NFL players (Allgeier, Milne as examples) backed by a great coach to beat up on the likes of UTSA, Troy and Louisiana Tech. With Maye, he teamed up w an ACC roster to play an ACC schedule. Daniels teamed up w a SEC roster to play a SEC schedule

 

What is this "nuance" you speak of? Do you realize what site you're on, sir?

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

7 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

It's like if MC Hammer and a raincoat had a threesome with a banana.

Did somebody say “threesome”?

 

[Est.1974]

Quite a few people seem happy to keep it ‘medium’ around these parts. 
 

Very surprising. New era folks. Keep up with what’s going on….

[mh86]

6 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Quite a few people seem happy to keep it ‘medium’ around these parts. 
 

Very surprising. New era folks. Keep up with what’s going on….

 

[mistertim]

26 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Quite a few people seem happy to keep it ‘medium’ around these parts. 
 

Very surprising. New era folks. Keep up with what’s going on….

 

How is taking a QB at #2 overall being medium? Vs straight up basic **** stuff like trading back like a bunch of numbskulls when we have a shot at a blue chip QB prospect high in the 1st.

[illone]

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Coming from one of the bigger McCarthy fans, i don't think its his size that's holding him back from the top 3.

 

But arm strength and the fact that Michigan didn't feature him enough to showcase his skills as much as the others.

 

I think once the NFL opinions get backed into the mocks, he could end up top 5. 
 

even though michigan didnt ask him to do much, he delivered on 3rd down in big moments which is a HUGE deal. 
 

ill look up the numbers again, but iirc he was the best 3rd down QB by a large margin…

[redskinss]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

How is taking a QB at #2 overall being medium? Vs straight up basic **** stuff like trading back like a bunch of numbskulls when we have a shot at a blue chip QB prospect high in the 1st.

 

That's exactly what these pundits want, fuel for their machine.

 

All these clowns that have us mocked as trading down would rip us mercilessly after we did it because we didn't grab a franchise quarterback when we had the chance.

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

Just saw these two tweets back-to-back lol:

 

 

[The Consigliere]

3 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

My mental exercise with this is to pretend that Drake Maye stays in college and transfers to LSU. Has a year to learn the system, and then gets to play as a senior with 2 high first round WR’s and. Solid OL. I think that version of Drake Maye could look like a better prospect than Trevor Lawrence. 

The most likely outcome is a Burrow type scenario but with shakier mechanics, I'm not sure that gets cleaned up without coaching up at the NFL level apparently (otoh, how bad are his mechanics likely to be if he doesn't have an utter horse ---- OL, and a completely craptacular collection of playmakers? Is he liable to have skittish feet w/a good OL and playmakers who actually don't need to be thrown open?).

 

However, gotta be fair to one way with Daniels that I wasn't in my post.

 

He was very good in '22, and ridiculous in '23. It's not like he was whatevs always, kinda like Penix, Daniels was always good, he was just other worldly last year.

 

However people keep sleeping on this, he was a FIFTH YEAR PLAYER. FIFTH FREAKING YEAR. Like, come the ---- on. Fifth Year, and the best surrounding talent by far of any of these prospects. 

 

Maye was in his second year as a starter and had the worst collection of pass catchers and OL's around, bar none in terms of his time as a starter and he still did what he did anyway. It's like I'm taking crazy pills.

 

None of this means Daniels isn't a stud. He very easily could be one, it's just much harder to tell how much of him, and how much is a fifth year guy playing with elite level NFL prospects, and how much is Daniels upside as a QB. I simply am not sure how much weight to give to each. With Maye, ALL THE VALUE GOES TO MAYE. All of it. He did that ALL himself. People, haha, say, well his talent went down in '23, so of course he was worse, but what was his talent in '22? Who on this planet is comparing Josh Freaking Downs, and Antoine Green to freaking Malik Nabers and Brian Thomas Jr lol.

 

Josh Downs was basically what, the 9th best WR in a pretty crappy WR draft in '23? I don't know anyone who gave a rats --- about Antoine Green either, and what Maye had in '23, lol, was significantly worse, than that crap. 

 

Meanwhile, Daniels is working with the '24 equivalent of Jamar Freaking Chase, and in Brian Thomas Jr, a less athletic AJ Brown. 

 

There's just pieces of this debate that are such pure comedy it beggars belief.

 

It doesn't mean Maye is good and Daniels isn't btw. Burrow played with crap and played like crap, then went to LSU and had the best QB season ever, and it turned out, was a franchise QB, period. Pickett played with crap at Penn State, and well, it turned out he was Christian Hackenberg before Christian Hackenberg. Maybe Maye is just an overrated arm and little else, and he ends up busting, who knows, but there is no question here, who produced with absolute garbage and as a very young prospect exclusively, and who was considered a day 2 and day 3 talent at best for years and years and years and years as a starter until he played with two different WR's with top grades in an absolutely loaded WR class, one of whom is one the best 4 or 5 WR prospects to come out in the decade since the All World '14 class, and the other, a lock to go in round 1. Meanwhile, the best talent Maye had, was a late day 3 special teamer with the upside of a slot/#3 at best WR in Downs. 

 

That has to be noted, period, and some people are totally and completely ignoring it. 

[Est.1974]

I think that demonstrates the issue here. 
 

Say for example Drake Maye is the next Josh Allen.

 

As a fan, do you want Drake Maye to give you what Josh Allen has given the Bills for that last 6 years.

 

6 years from now, Drake Maye = Josh Allen 2018-2023

 

Is that the bar ?

 

23,000 passing yards, no Super Bowls.

 

Yay.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

17 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

I think that demonstrates the issue here. 
 

Say for example Drake Maye is the next Josh Allen.

 

As a fan, do you want Drake Maye to give you what Josh Allen has given the Bills for that last 6 years.

 

6 years from now, Drake Maye = Josh Allen 2018-2023

 

Is that the bar ?

 

23,000 passing yards, no Super Bowls.

 

Yay.

If he throws for 330 yards and four TDs, one of which gives us the lead with 13 seconds left in a postseason game against the chiefs, I’ll take it.

Edited February 25 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[dunfer]

17 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I think that demonstrates the issue here. 
 

Say for example Drake Maye is the next Josh Allen.

 

As a fan, do you want Drake Maye to give you what Josh Allen has given the Bills for that last 6 years.

 

6 years from now, Drake Maye = Josh Allen 2018-2023

 

Is that the bar ?

 

23,000 passing yards, no Super Bowls.

 

Yay.

Lets take a QB at every pick. we will line up 11 QBs on offense and odds are one of them will get us a Lombardi.

 

Joking aside that you need more than a qb and theres no need to wager what we dont have... good team and draft capital....id kill to have josh allen

Edited February 24 by dunfer

[The Consigliere]

2 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Rugged NFCE Division…it’s not the 90s.

Nope. It's kind of bizarre, there are only 6 divisional games, and 2 of the six are basically in a dome. There's at most, 2-3 games w/potential for bad weather divisionally based, and the rugged defense thing is more about the eighties and early nineties. Just take the best QB on the board, period, the rest of it is nonsense. 

[dunfer]

4 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Nope. It's kind of bizarre, there are only 6 divisional games, and 2 of the six are basically in a dome. There's at most, 2-3 games w/potential for bad weather divisionally based, and the rugged defense thing is more about the eighties and early nineties. Just take the best QB on the board, period, the rest of it is nonsense. 

"Rugged" probably has more to do with everyone's facilities not counting the fancy line dancers

Edited February 24 by dunfer

[redskinss]

25 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I think that demonstrates the issue here. 
 

Say for example Drake Maye is the next Josh Allen.

 

As a fan, do you want Drake Maye to give you what Josh Allen has given the Bills for that last 6 years.

 

6 years from now, Drake Maye = Josh Allen 2018-2023

 

Is that the bar ?

 

23,000 passing yards, no Super Bowls.

 

Yay.

 

I'm not gonna look it up but I'm pretty certain that would be by far he best 6 year stretch in franchise history from a single quarterback so yes I absolutely would take it and worry about all the other reasons we haven't made a superbowl. 

 

 

Edited February 24 by redskinss

[clskinsfan]

2 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Drake Maye with just having a little more prototypical size and playing in a rugged division

This is my take as well. Outside, in the NE. later in the year matters. All of our opponents stadiums have serious wind issues. NY and Philly are horrid for average arms. 

[MartinC]

29 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I think that demonstrates the issue here. 
 

Say for example Drake Maye is the next Josh Allen.

 

As a fan, do you want Drake Maye to give you what Josh Allen has given the Bills for that last 6 years.

 

6 years from now, Drake Maye = Josh Allen 2018-2023

 

Is that the bar ?

 

23,000 passing yards, no Super Bowls.

 

Yay.

Do I want to draft Josh Allen - is that question? Hell yes!

 

That guy gives his team a chance at a Super Bowl every year. But then you have to put a team around him and get a couple of breaks.

 

Getting a Josh Allen level QB puts you in the conversation.