The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[mac8887]

33 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Yeesh...

 

It’s crazy that we still have howlers howling. Howell has awful awareness, really bad field vision, and makes some of the most careless/worst decisions than any qb in the league last year.

 

I really think this team will surprise us in a good way next year, either one of the top 3 qbs will far surpass this level of play. A huge reason for some of our losses were Howell holding the ball forever and taking huge drive killing sacks, and making awful boneheaded throws at the absolute worst times you can make them, leading to awful ints, either in the red zone, backed up on our own goal line, or on 1st down, when he could’ve easily thrown the ball away to live to fight the next play. 
 

I truly believe with some competent qb play next year that this team will be competing for a playoff spot, especially if we hit on our free agents and draft picks. Heck, we probably could’ve finished anywhere from 7-10 to 9-8 last year if we would’ve started Brisset.

 

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm open to running it back with Howell, getting draft picks and Nabers as well.

I’d do that before drafting Maye at #2

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

No. I just asked what interview you were referencing so I could listen to it? I wasn't sure if it was that one or he talked to someone else. 😂😂 No need to get defensive. 

 

 Its a podcast with him and Standford Steve on the Qbs, Sheehan referenced the interview.

 

As for the being defensive comment.  Am not the person comparing the other Qb to Zach Wilson among other things.  I got nothing against Daniels.  I pushed him here weeks before you did.   If they take Daniels its cool.   My button here isn't about taking Daniels but about trading down. 😎

 

But simply put, its not hard to miss that just about every disclaimer about Daniels is met with a rebuttal from you.  So when you mentioned is that the interview when he was a "freshmen"?   I presumed you were setting up a rebuttal that its old news.

 

 

Edited February 24 by Skinsinparadise

[ThatNFLChick]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 Its a podcast with him and Standford Steve on the Qbs, Sheehan referenced the interview.

 

As for the being defensive comment.  Am not the person comparing the other Qb to Zach Wilson among other things.  I got nothing against Daniels.  I pushed him here weeks before you did.   If they take Daniels its cool.   My button here isn't about taking Daniels but about trading down. 😎

 

But simply put, its not hard to miss that just about every disclaimer about Daniels is met with a rebuttal from you.  So when you mentioned is that the interview when he was a "freshmen"?   I presumed you were setting up a rebuttal that its old news.

 

 

 

Ok then you presumed wrong. Cool. 

 

Listening now to Likens interview actually. Its here. 

 

 

 

Edited February 24 by ThatNFLChick

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Listening in, it sounded like a bunch of cliché answers, with the coach avoiding anything negative. While he does come off as quite shy and introverted, as you somewhat pointed out, there's a noticeable surge of energy and joy when he's on the field.
 

On a side note, but relevant to leadership through play: I appreciate elite dual-threat ability for its unique capacity to capture momentum and energy in games via low-risk, high-reward actions such as running the football to gain yards.

 

I've read multple times that Jayden is a super nice guy but not the most talkative dude.  Sort of like Howell.  But more talkative than Sam.

 

I don't really care too much.  Ideally, I do love the Brady and Manning leader types.  But you can also lead by example.  And my biggest red flag for QBs personality is are they douches.  And Jayden clearly isn't a douche, great guy.

 

And i agree running QBs, can lift the spirits of a team because of the excitement of it

[method man]

The Zach Wilson comparisons don’t make sense to me. He was a clear case of a guy who exploded playing some very bad teams his final year. Because of COVID, BYU couldn’t get Pac 12 teams and other Power 5 teams on their schedule that year. I believe Boise State and Coastal Carolina were the only ranked teams they played that year. Boise State was on its 3rd string QB if I recall and their D got gashed as a result that game. Wilson wasn’t good against Coastal and came up short. The ACC schedule Maye played this year >>> Wilson’s 2020 schedule

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

 

Listening now to Likens interview actually:

 

 

 

 

Standig back on the radio, that's cool its been awhile for him.  Am tuning in too.

 

I miss the days though when Standig was the next best insider to Keim as to getting scoops.  I gather he lost his sources because he almost never now has a scoop about the team -- the exception being national angles.  Standig is plugged in nationally fairly well.

[Est.1974]

12 minutes ago, Conn said:

Basically. And you have been for two months. You yearn for it

We want Caleb, Magic is in the case.

Caleb doesn’t give a **** about convention. 
He is saving an agent the bad press that’s going to come with him sacking the Bears off.

The Bears can trade Fields as they know they’ll get a QB at #2 anyway. Plus a stud at #9.

The yearn continues……..

 

[bird_1972]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Standig back on the radio, that's cool its been awhile for him.  Am tuning in too.

 

I miss the days though when Standig was the next best insider to Keim as to getting scoops.  I gather he lost his sources because he almost never now has a scoop about the team -- the exception being national angles.  Standig is plugged in nationally fairly well.

 

I actually really like the articles he writes for the Athletic. I'm glad I ponied up the money.

[mac8887]

2 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I’d do that before drafting Maye at #2

I’m more in the Williams, Daniel’s camp, but you crazy. Maye at the very least is a bigger, taller, stronger Sam Howell, that’s if Maye under performs. And just by being bigger, taller, and stronger, he’ll be able to see the field better, throw the ball harder and farther, and not take sacks as easily. On top of that, I doubt there is anyway that he would make as many boneheaded decisions as Howell did last year. Don’t forget how bad Howell was the second half of the season last year, he could be broken. It’s possible if we run it back with Howell and he is unable to play better than he did the second half of last year, that we don’t win a game. Howell was that bad, and usually when someone gets shellshocked the way he did, you don’t recover, ask Ramsey and Carr, and they had much more talent than Howell

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, method man said:

The Zach Wilson comparisons don’t make sense to me. He was a clear case of a guy who exploded playing some very bad teams his final year. Because of COVID, BYU couldn’t get Pac 12 teams and other Power 5 teams on their schedule that year. I believe Boise State and Coastal Carolina were the only ranked teams they played that year. Boise State was on its 3rd string QB if I recall and their D got gashed as a result that game. Wilson wasn’t good against Coastal and came up short. The ACC schedule Maye played this year >>> Wilson’s 2020 schedule

 

Yep and that one year was Zach's one year wonder.    Maye isn't a one year wonder.  Daniels ironically is closer to being a one year wonder than Maye. 

 

Also some of Zach's intangible issues surfaced before the draft.  Thus far no such concerns about Maye.

 

And that's just surface stuff before delving into their play.

 

3 hours ago, bird_1972 said:

 

I actually really like the articles he writes for the Athletic. I'm glad I ponied up the money.

 

Agree.  He's the best writer among the best guys.  His articles are great.

 

But alas I tuned in now and I guess Standig just had a segment or his run for today is over he isn't on now.

Edited February 24 by Skinsinparadise

[bird_1972]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Agree.  He's the best writer among the best guys.  His articles are great.

 

But alas I tuned in now and I guess Standig just had a segment or his run for today is over he isn't on now.

 

Is he on 980?

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

We want Caleb, Magic is in the case.

Caleb doesn’t give a **** about convention. 
He is saving an agent the bad press that’s going to come with him sacking the Bears off.

The Bears can trade Fields as they know they’ll get a QB at #2 anyway. Plus a stud at #9.

The yearn continues……..

 

 

1 minute ago, bird_1972 said:

 

Is he on 980?

 not right now

[ThatNFLChick]

Just now, method man said:

The Zach Wilson comparisons don’t make sense to me. He was a clear case of a guy who exploded playing some very bad teams his final year. Because of COVID, BYU couldn’t get Pac 12 teams and other Power 5 teams on their schedule that year. I believe Boise State and Coastal Carolina were the only ranked teams they played that year. Boise State was on its 3rd string QB if I recall and their D got gashed as a result that game. Wilson wasn’t good against Coastal and came up short. The ACC schedule Maye played this year >>> Wilson’s 2020 schedule

 

I can't keep up with whether people think strength of schedule and how they play tough opponents should count or not on this board. It seems to be vary depending on the player. 

 

But it was stuff like this that made Zach Wilson shoot up boards:

 

 

 

[88Comrade2000]

The Fields deal will be announced by the end of the combine and go into effect when new league year starts on 3/13.

 

Whoever trades for Fields will

decide having him is better than Cousins or Wilson.

 

Bears will then focus on the qb they will draft, most likely Williams.

 

 

We will be drafting a qb in this draft. Most likely standing pat at # 2. If we trade down, we are still drafting a qb.

[ThatNFLChick]

Things that were said about Zach Wilson during the draft process:

• He was very Mahomes and Rodgers-like
• Phenomenal arm talent and strength
• He could make every throw and then some
• Huge ability to throw off platform
• Scrambling around the pocket and then throwing 50 yard bombs down the field
• All the Mahomes-like arm angles he used

[Skinsinparadise]

I am sort of in the going medium range of @Going Commando's point about the franchise makes or breaks the QB.  But I do agree with the overall point that there are things beyond the QB's ability.  Many things that impact their success.

 

And I do agree that the offensve coordinator-franchise culture-supporting cast do all impact the QBs success.  IMO that is irrefutable.  Clearly it does.  

 

My thing though is there is an even bigger factor than that.  And it also weighs in heavy on the QBs success.  That is, the QB's personality and drive-work ethic. 

 

Arians talks about why its hard to judge college QBs to the pros in his book.  Mainly its tough to see how quickly they process the field until you have them in the building.  Tough to see their personality and leadership skills.  Tough to see their work ethic in advance.  Shanny said he knows if a Qb has what it takes a week into having them in the building but its tough to know with certaintly before that.

 

But to @Going Commando point, I agree with the spirit of it which is there is more than just the QB's ablilty alone that impacts their success.  So for example when Joe Theismann among others touted Zach.  It's not that they are morons and were wrong about his ability from what they observed.  Its that there are so many other variables that impact the Qb's success that we can't see from afar. 

 

So lets take Zach.  We got a dude with the reputation of being immature and not a good leader AND he was drafted by a dysfunctional organization.  It's all a recipe for failure.  And it all extends beyond Zach's ability,

Edited February 24 by Skinsinparadise

[clskinsfan]

I dont fault the Jets for drafting Wilson where they did. But in fairness there were plenty of red flags that most of us pointed out before that draft. A lot of us had Fields as the second best QB in that draft. Some of you rated Lance highly as well. I hated him as a prospect. The Jets took a swing and missed. You have to do that until you find your QB. Any of the three big guys can bust this year. And it is probably likely that two out of the three do. But you cant stop trying. Especially if you arent giving up any additional draft capital to make those picks. 

[Est.1974]

29 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

A nice chilled San Miguel beer in fact…..

[mh86]

25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am sort of in the going medium range of @Going Commando's point about the franchise makes or breaks the QB.  But I do agree with the overall point that there are things beyond the QB's ability.  Many things that impact their success.

 

And I do agree that the offensve coordinator-franchise culture-supporting cast do all impact the QBs success.  IMO that is irrefutable.  Clearly it does.  

 

My thing though is there is an even bigger factor than that.  And it also weighs in heavy on the QBs success.  That is, the QB's personality and drive-work ethic. 

 

Arians talks about why its hard to judge college QBs to the pros in his book.  Mainly its tough to see how quickly they process the field until you have them in the building.  Tough to see their personality and leadership skills.  Tough to see their work ethic in advance.  Shanny said he knows if a Qb has what it takes a week into having them in the building but its tough to know with certaintly before that.

 

But to @Going Commando point, I agree with the spirit of it which is there is more than just the QB's ablilty alone that impacts their success.  So for example when Joe Theismann among others touted Zach.  It's not that they are morons and were wrong about his ability from what they observed.  Its that there are so many other variables that impact the Qb's success that we can't see from afar. 

 

So lets take Zach.  We got a dude with the reputation of being immature and not a good leader AND he was drafted by a dysfunctional organization.  It's all a recipe for failure.  And it all extends beyond Zach's ability,

So wait, you’re telling me I can’t watch a few highlights, read some tweets, tell everyone else they’re wrong, while saying x or y player is the best choice? Especially without knowing the most important aspect of the players makeup (mental and work ethic)…nah, you’re just wrong, I know the rattler is S+ tier.

Edited February 24 by mh86

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Standig back on the radio, that's cool its been awhile for him.  Am tuning in too.

 

I miss the days though when Standig was the next best insider to Keim as to getting scoops.  I gather he lost his sources because he almost never now has a scoop about the team -- the exception being national angles.  Standig is plugged in nationally fairly well.

Standig and Sheehan is my favorite listen on radio these days. 

 

15 minutes ago, mh86 said:

So wait, you’re telling me I can’t watch a few highlights, read some tweets, tell everyone else they’re wrong, while saying x or y player is the best choice? Especially without knowing the most important aspect of the players makeup (mental and work ethic)…nah, you’re just wrong, I know the rattler is S+ tier.

 

 

The astonishing part is, despite thorough background research from grade school to college, evaluations can still go wrong. Teams should, however, be adept at identifying individuals with a solid work ethic and are a good person.
 

Yet, whether the affable hard worker can make split-second decisions, handle QB pressures, and become obsessive about the process in adulthood is a different narrative.

 

That's why I often favor elite dual-threat players; they offer an immediate high floor, unrelated to reading the field or being an elite student of the game.

 

All made SBs within their rookie contracts:

Jalen Hurts

Cam Newton

Wilson

Kaepernick

 

 

Edited February 24 by wit33

[mistertim]

34 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I dont fault the Jets for drafting Wilson where they did. But in fairness there were plenty of red flags that most of us pointed out before that draft. A lot of us had Fields as the second best QB in that draft. Some of you rated Lance highly as well. I hated him as a prospect. The Jets took a swing and missed. You have to do that until you find your QB. Any of the three big guys can bust this year. And it is probably likely that two out of the three do. But you cant stop trying. Especially if you arent giving up any additional draft capital to make those picks. 

 

I really liked Wilson's traits but when there were some negative reports about his work ethic and personality that turned me off. I thought Lance was going to be a bust from the get-go. Never really understood the fascination with him.

[mh86]

20 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Standig and Sheehan is my favorite listen on radio these days. 

 

 

 

The astonishing part is, despite thorough background research from grade school to college, evaluations can still go wrong. Teams should, however, be adept at identifying individuals with a solid work ethic and are a good person.
 

Yet, whether the affable hard worker can make split-second decisions, handle QB pressures, and become obsessive about the process in adulthood is a different narrative.

 

That's why I often favor elite dual-threat players; they offer an immediate high floor, unrelated to reading the field or being an elite student of the game.

 

All made SBs within their rookie contracts:

Jalen Hurts

Cam Newton

Wilson

Kaepernick

 

 

I agree completely. That’s also why I mentioned mental makeup too. Decision making/processing speed is part of that, but you can’t really know that until they play, specifically in the NFL because that’s a different beast. The dual threat thing is why I personally think Daniels has a higher chance to be successful his first season, akin to RG3. Not counting any of these players mental, work ethic, future coaching/playcalling/, players, organization around them. Those things are also paramount for a QB to be successful. It’s not a guarantee of course, but neither is a “generational” pick at QB. Now, what happens after the first season is anyone’s guess, but from my understanding that’s where people use floors and ceilings to basically guess.

[The Consigliere]

18 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Its a massive deal and it doesnt even take into account that early breakout age is a very good predictor for future success

Ding, ding, ding!!!! I was just arguing with someone else over this. Daniels getting 4 years of Mulligans, really, oh, he was great when he got one of the best WR prospects in years, and one of the best WR groups around? I'll feign surprise! And I like Daniels, but the willful disregarding of things like this is just absurd, and early breakout age is a concept that has huge value in all sports, it should be obvious why it matters and yet people so so so love to ignore it. 

[Anselmheifer]

16 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Ding, ding, ding!!!! I was just arguing with someone else over this. Daniels getting 4 years of Mulligans, really, oh, he was great when he got one of the best WR prospects in years, and one of the best WR groups around? I'll feign surprise! And I like Daniels, but the willful disregarding of things like this is just absurd, and early breakout age is a concept that has huge value in all sports, it should be obvious why it matters and yet people so so so love to ignore it. 

My mental exercise with this is to pretend that Drake Maye stays in college and transfers to LSU. Has a year to learn the system, and then gets to play as a senior with 2 high first round WR’s and. Solid OL. I think that version of Drake Maye could look like a better prospect than Trevor Lawrence.