The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[alaroche04]

1 hour ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

He had someone who just broke the Colts rookie receiving record and played the 85th hardest schedule and still didn't win it in 2022.

 

This year he had a 1500 yard running back that was 1 of only 3 finalists for the Doak Walker award thats given to the best RB in the country plus Tez Walker. 

I know you really want this to change what I said, but it doesn't (especially having a 1500 yard running back...that has nothing to do with anything).  

 

If Maye (or Caleb for that matter) was throwing to two top 20 receiver, one being a potential top 5 pick, he'd be winning the Heisman.  And you mentioning Tez Walker...wack AF and pathetic.  That guy is washed, and is a fourth rounder at best.

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But he also varies the speed on his throws.  That's part of the charm.  He puts touch on some throws and touch when it goes awry floats.

He has shown the ability to vary speed and loft at all three levels. Only he and Williams can do that in this draft that I saw. JJ might be there as well. But the sample size is so small. Maye and Williams can both throw 50 yard balls and opposite hash deep outs on a rope. 

1 hour ago, skinsfan66 said:

Tez Walker was ball dropping machine in the senior bowl practices, I think he could have hurt his stock bigtime. He was Maye's go to you would think just saying.

Was just going to say this to refute the "Maye is the reason balls were dropped" narrative. That is garbage. 

33 minutes ago, Rolo Tomasie said:

something got way more uncomfortable for him in 2023

He had an entirely new system in 2023

[ThatNFLChick]

9 minutes ago, alaroche04 said:

I know you really want this to change what I said, but it doesn't (especially having a 1500 yard running back...that has nothing to do with anything).  

 

If Maye (or Caleb for that matter) was throwing to two top 20 receiver, one being a potential top 5 pick, he'd be winning the Heisman.  And you mentioning Tez Walker...wack AF and pathetic.  That guy is washed, and is a fourth rounder at best.

 

Some of yall love living in the land of IFS. He chose to go to the school he did. And if your position is that having a great running attack doesn't make the job of the QB significantly easier and help the passing game substantially, look at our team last year. 

 

Also Caleb won the Heisman 😂😂

Edited February 22 by ThatNFLChick

[Going Commando]

11 hours ago, Destino said:

Highlights like these do not impress me for QBs. It’s damned impressive for big recoevers showing off their speed, but Daniels is staring at his receiver and doesn’t throw it until his target runs by his man. All from a perfect pocket.

 

Yep.  Throwing to a first read who is a dominant receiver running wide open up the seam with no safety help, on time, from a clean pocket doesn't really show off any particular special NFL trait.

 

Almost all of Jayden's wow plays where he showed off something special by NFL standards were runs.  And even in those, there were too many middle field runs that aren't going to translate to the next level.  At his size, he's only going to be able to exploit the middle of the field for running against man coverage and with the defense completely spaced out.  DCs are gonna know this and avoid the situation as much as they can.

[ThatNFLChick]

6 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Yep.  Throwing to a first read who is a dominant receiver running wide open up the seam with no safety help, on time, from a clean pocket doesn't really show off any particular special NFL trait.

 

Almost all of Jayden's wow plays where he showed off something special by NFL standards were runs.  And even in those, there were too many middle field runs that aren't going to translate to the next level.  At his size, he's only going to be able to exploit the middle of the field for running against man coverage and with the defense completely spaced out.  DCs are gonna know this and avoid the situation as much as they can.

 

LOL. 

 

Chase Daniels posted one clip while he was breaking down film while watching a game (and he was really highlighting Nabers) and everyone decided that was the sum total of his evaluation. The rest of this is....lol. 

Edited February 22 by ThatNFLChick

[Going Commando]

59 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

That's the point.

He has an objectively high % of off platform throws.

 

I got no issue w/ his ability to spin it on platform. The problem stems from the amount of times he is actually on platform.

 

His ability to create and make off platform plays is one of his best traits, and you're trying to argue that it's a weakness.  It's not.  It's incredibly special.  It's why he gets the Josh Allen/Joe Burrow comparisons.  A guy who can drift and make an on the move opposite hash throw where the ball travels 40-50 yards in the air to a deep receiver uncovering late look routine has an elite arm.

[ThatNFLChick]

11 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

His ability to create and make off platform plays is one of his best traits, and you're trying to argue that it's a weakness.  It's not.  It's incredibly special.  It's why he gets the Josh Allen/Joe Burrow comparisons.  A guy who can drift and make an on the move opposite hash throw where the ball travels 40-50 yards in the air to a deep receiver uncovering late look routine has an elite arm.

 

Joe Burrow? The one everyone said had a weak arm coming out of college? He's never been compared to Joe Burrow. Totally opposite players. Do you mean Herbert?

 

Cause the North remembers....

 

 

 

 

Edited February 22 by ThatNFLChick

[FootballZombie]

42 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

His ability to create and make off platform plays is one of his best traits, and you're trying to argue that it's a weakness.  It's not.  It's incredibly special.  It's why he gets the Josh Allen/Joe Burrow comparisons.  A guy who can drift and make an on the move opposite hash throw where the ball travels 40-50 yards in the air to a deep receiver uncovering late look routine has an elite arm.

 

Missing the point. He has to be better at harnessing it rather than living on it.

 

Maye's arm talent and ability to create off platform is one of his best qualities. I'm not debating that it is not. I'm arguing that he can not get away with the amount of off platform stuff at the next level because we can already see the impact it has on his overall game at the college level.

 

Unless your one of the aliens on this planet who can operate in F-it mode at a high rate and not have it massively impact their accuracy and consistency, your gonna cause your team a lot of self harm at the NFL level. And I can count on one of Jason-Piere-Paul's hands how many of those creatures populate the earth. Drake aint one.

 

Maye suffers in this evaluation not because he can throw off platform, but rather how often he does it. His mechanics are oft scrutinized and his poor footwork is often pointed out as a likely root cause to his problems and the likely pathway to correcting them.

 

His current mode of play that demonstrates a heavy dosage of less than ideal passing form, leads to less accuracy, less stable spirals and less consistency across his baseline because you simply can not be the same guy off platform as you are on it, and I don't think anybody here would labor the point that Maye throws a literal metric ton of off platform stuff.

 

I'm not saying he can never throw an off schedule or off platform throw, but it is virtually universal understanding even on this thread that he has to improve his mechanics and can't just be a guy that tries to "arm" everything everywhere. The only way that narrative exists is if the prospect has displayed a need to be way more consistent moving forward. Earlier I labeled my favorite thing about Maye is his ability to generate power off platform. I like it, but it is too much of what he is right now. Operating like that to this extent is weighting down his game and holding him back. He can be far more accurate and consistent than he has displayed.

Edited February 22 by FootballZombie

[Koolblue13]

Mayes interior OL was horrendous. He was moved out of the pocket, because teams were easily bringing pressure from the A/B gap.

[kingdaddy]

12 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

That looks like the Commanders defense on the back end....

[OtisDriftwood25]

I know I’ll be in the minority but I am warming up to the idea of Penix at 36 more than the top 3 at 2. I do not see much difference between Penix and Tua. I think we let one game define Penix but do not let the USC/ Notre Dame game define Williams. We do not let the North Carolina/Clemson game define Maye. Penix can sling the ball and especially in the high low concepts Kingsbury runs. 
 

How about we go back and watch the Washington/Oregon first game in the wind. Where every time the team needed it he provided. 

Edited February 22 by OtisDriftwood25

[Warhead36]

Good lord so many people calling into 980 advocating for passing up on a QB.

 

Its like people just don't know anything except mediocrity.

 

How can anyone justify building around Sam effing Howell at this point? I'm sorry, I just don't get it.

Edited February 22 by Warhead36

[ThatNFLChick]

15 minutes ago, OtisDriftwood25 said:

I know I’ll be in the minority but I am warming up to the idea of Penix at 36 more than the top 3 at 2. I do not see much difference between Penix and Tua. I think we let one game define Penix but do not let the USC/ Notre Dame game define Williams. We do not let the North Carolina/Clemson game define Maye. Penix can sling the ball and especially in the high low concepts Kingsbury runs. 
 

How about we go back and watch the Washington/Oregon first game in the wind. Where every time the team needed it he provided. 

 

I think what defines Penix more than one game is his injury history. 

[WashingtonRedWolves]

49 minutes ago, OtisDriftwood25 said:

I know I’ll be in the minority but I am warming up to the idea of Penix at 36 more than the top 3 at 2. I do not see much difference between Penix and Tua. I think we let one game define Penix but do not let the USC/ Notre Dame game define Williams. We do not let the North Carolina/Clemson game define Maye. Penix can sling the ball and especially in the high low concepts Kingsbury runs. 

I like Penix too but that injury history has me steering clear

[88Comrade2000]

11 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Good lord so many people calling into 980 advocating for passing up on a QB.

 

Its like people just don't know anything except mediocrity.

 

How can anyone justify building around Sam effing Howell at this point? I'm sorry, I just don't get it.

You have a chance at 2 of 3 qbs in the top tier of a qb heavy draft; you take it. Sure, it may not work out but that’s better than the other 3 options.

 

Better than trading down and getting the  second tier qbs. Better than riding with Sam. Better than signing a free agent qb.

[ThatNFLChick]

17 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Good lord so many people calling into 980 advocating for passing up on a QB.

 

Its like people just don't know anything except mediocrity.

 

How can anyone justify building around Sam effing Howell at this point? I'm sorry, I just don't get it.

 

There are still a lot of very vocal Howell fans who feel like he got dealt a bad hand. Even Mark Bullock said he thinks he has untapped potential and wouldn't be mad if we stuck with him. 

Edited February 22 by ThatNFLChick

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

LOL. 

 

Chase Daniels posted one clip while he was breaking down film while watching a game (and he was really highlighting Nabers) and everyone decided that was the sum total of his evaluation. The rest of this is....lol. 

This message is for everyone in this thread - it’s not just specific to this poster. 
 

Let’s keep this discussion civil. People get passionate about prospects and players, especially QBs. It becomes a lightening rod and I get that.

 

It’s totally fine to argue your position with some passion and push back on other people’s positions and arguments.
 

That goes better if you are arguing a position based on actually having watched the players you are talking about. 
 

But this thread is degenerating into a series of drive by posts. Let’s all drop the passive aggressive ‘LOL’ stuff and related nonsense. 
 

If you don’t feel people are adding to the discussion and your only response is some kind of ‘you're an idiot’ post - even that is just implied - don’t post that response.

[woodpecker]

18 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Good lord so many people calling into 980 advocating for passing up on a QB.

 

Its like people just don't know anything except mediocrity.

 

How can anyone justify building around Sam effing Howell at this point? I'm sorry, I just don't get it.

Well, I don’t agree with them, but it’s not crazy. A lot can be done with the bounty of picks we could get by trading down. I’m with the crowd that says you have to take a shot at a top rated QB prospect when you have a chance like this. But let’s not pretend it’s not a gamble, the odds of hitting on even the #2 pick at QB are less than 50/50.

[Warhead36]

It doesn't matter how many picks you have if you have no plan at QB. What the heck did the Rams do with all the picks from RG3? Squadoosh. You have no idea what picks in the future might entail.

 

Its easy to say "build the team around the QB" but what if you end up in the situation we've been in the last 3 years where after passing up on MULTIPLE franchise caliber QBs, we're stuck scrambling and having to overpay for veterans like Fitzpatrick or Wentz because the high quality vets we wanted didn't wanna come here(Stafford and Wilson)and we didn't draft high enough to take anyone worth a darn. If you don't have a GUY at QB you have no chance. Zilch. Zip. None. There is no feasible plan without having that guy in place.

 

And Howell has not shown enough that he can be that guy. Just about every metric has him as a bottom tier starting QB. He doesn't really have elite measurables. Strong arm but that's it(undersized, quick but not very fast, holds the ball too long slow processor etc.). He's also already played out two years, so his value of the rookie contract is cut in half. He is absolutely NOT someone you pass up on blue chip QBs for. If this were like the 2022 draft and the best QBs are the likes of Kenny Pickett then yeah, sure, stockpile the roster and run it back with Howell, but this is not the draft to do that.

[ThatNFLChick]

NFL Beat Writers did a mock draft

1. Chicago - Caleb Williams

2. Washington - Drake Maye

3. Atlanta (trade with NE) - Jayden Daniels 

4. Cardinals - MHJ

5. Chargers - Nabers

6. Giants - Rome Odunze

7. Titans - Joe Alt

8. Patriots - Olu Fashanu (Fields is their QB)

9. Broncos (trade with CHI) - JJ McCarthy

10. Jets - Taliese Fuaga

Edited February 22 by ThatNFLChick

[Dah-Dee]

1 hour ago, OtisDriftwood25 said:

I know I’ll be in the minority but I am warming up to the idea of Penix at 36 more than the top 3 at 2. I do not see much difference between Penix and Tua. I think we let one game define Penix but do not let the USC/ Notre Dame game define Williams. We do not let the North Carolina/Clemson game define Maye. Penix can sling the ball and especially in the high low concepts Kingsbury runs. 
 

How about we go back and watch the Washington/Oregon first game in the wind. Where every time the team needed it he provided. 

 

Penix has a great arm, but in addition to inconsistent analytics, couple things really bother me about him:

 

First, he has the worst injury history of maybe any player in this draft. It's scary bad.

 

Second, the guy simply cannot run. He had 8 yards rushing last year. 8 total yards. In 15 games. 8. He had negative rushing yards in 10 out of 15 games. He can move around in the pocket, and seems to be good at sensing/avoiding pressure (crazy low sack totals), but in the modern NFL I think your QB has to be more mobile than he is.

Edited February 22 by Dah-Dee

[Koolblue13]

25 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

There are still a lot of very vocal Howell fans who feel like he got dealt a bad hand. Even Mark Bullock said he thinks he has untapped potential and wouldn't be mad if we stuck with him. 

That's the first post that I think we agree.

[Redskin21502]

51 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Good lord so many people calling into 980 advocating for passing up on a QB.

 

Its like people just don't know anything except mediocrity.

 

How can anyone justify building around Sam effing Howell at this point? I'm sorry, I just don't get it.

 

Stockholm Syndrome with mediocre QBs

[skinsfan66]

33 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

It doesn't matter how many picks you have if you have no plan at QB. What the heck did the Rams do with all the picks from RG3? Squadoosh. You have no idea what picks in the future might entail.

 

Its easy to say "build the team around the QB" but what if you end up in the situation we've been in the last 3 years where after passing up on MULTIPLE franchise caliber QBs, we're stuck scrambling and having to overpay for veterans like Fitzpatrick or Wentz because the high quality vets we wanted didn't wanna come here(Stafford and Wilson)and we didn't draft high enough to take anyone worth a darn. If you don't have a GUY at QB you have no chance. Zilch. Zip. None. There is no feasible plan without having that guy in place.

 

And Howell has not shown enough that he can be that guy. Just about every metric has him as a bottom tier starting QB. He doesn't really have elite measurables. Strong arm but that's it(undersized, quick but not very fast, holds the ball too long slow processor etc.). He's also already played out two years, so his value of the rookie contract is cut in half. He is absolutely NOT someone you pass up on blue chip QBs for. If this were like the 2022 draft and the best QBs are the likes of Kenny Pickett then yeah, sure, stockpile the roster and run it back with Howell, but this is not the draft to do that.

Just look at last year, the Bears played it right and are set up for the new QB if they want? Look at Carolina 1 year wasted of the rookie contract and build, now they are without a 1st rd. pick to grab a top prospect. Ron sucked on the rebuild. With the right Person making the right picks and how to do it, any way can work. The 2 QB's in the S.B. were 2nd. tier and not in a tier at all.  Choices and a open mind to everything is what I am trying to think about this. We all have favorites or how to do it. Let's hope new owners picked the right people to do the job. 

Edited February 22 by skinsfan66

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Just look at last year, the Bears played it right and set up for the new QB if they want? Look at Carolina 1 year wasted of the rookie contract and build and now without a 1st rd. pick to grab a top prospect. Ron sucked on the rebuild. With the right Person making the right picks and how to it, any way can work. The 2 QB's in the S.B. were 2nd. tier and not in a tier at all.  Choices and a open mind to everything is what I am trying to think about this. We all have favorites or how to do it. Let's hope new owners picked the right people to do the job. 

The Bears traded the pick because they thought they had a guy in Fields. Not really the same situation. They aren't going to trade it this year because now they're sure he's not and there is a guy available who projects to be.