The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

33 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

45 minutes ago, Conn said:

Everybody was assuming that EB couldn't land a job because he didn't interview well. Well, I didn't assume that. I think I know why, but I'm gonna keep that out of this forum. But then we heard the press conferences and everybody was like ok this dude is really good with words and is clearly a leader of men. Well maybe there are some who are unimpressed and think it's just eloquent coach speak. But the point remains that he had doubters until he proves them wrong.

EB has a checkered past, long time ago- but checkered none the less.  He speaks in 3rd person and is the old school loud guy on the practice field and locker room.  He had zero experience calling plays or even designing an offense, making it hard to convey a vision for a football team. We have no idea to what extent he even had a staff lined up, and who that would be.

 

That’s just off the top of my head.

 

That doesn’t mean he can’t develop into a legit OC and potentially a head coach.  I’m not real impressed thus far, but understand he’s an acquired taste and learning on the job with a bad OL and no bonafide tight end, on Ron’s steadily sinking ship with a defense that can’t stop a nosebleed.  Not exactly the best of circumstances to earn his chops. 

 

 

[Warhead36]

23 minutes ago, BleedBNG said:

 

I like Howell but these cherry picked stats are always amusing to me. I remember in the NBA one time there was this super cherry picked list of stats that basically put Kwame Brown in the same category as guys like Wilt and Kareem. 

[Conn]

42 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

But then we heard the press conferences and everybody was like ok this dude is really good with words and is clearly a leader of men. Well maybe there are some who are unimpressed and think it's just eloquent coach speak. But the point remains that he had doubters until he proves them wrong.

 

Okay, this is the sort of explanation I was interested in. Fascinating, I haven’t really felt that way about his communication with the media in pressers. He doesn’t radiate HC to me, no gravitas or presence. He seems full of bluster to me, and the ego-tinged third person stuff is a little weird. I don’t come away from his pressers thinking he screams leader or “steady hand on the rudder”. I also haven’t seen much positive about his relationships and ability to communicate with his players, that was a criticism or concern from Chiefs fans. And Howell just went out of his way to say that the longer they’ve known each other, the more their communication has improved—implying it wasn’t an easy-peasy relationship to slip into.
 

To me, the best relationship-builders and leaders make it easy, it’s a foundational part of their personality and leadership style, that ability to effortlessly connect and bridge the gap between people. I don’t know if Ben Johnson has it. I do know Frank Smith has it. I don’t see evidence yet that Bieniemy has it.  If you don’t have that, you have to be a real schematic genius like a Kyle Shanahan to get buy-in from players and assistants and keep it.

[Warhead36]

EB looks like what the stereotypical football coach would look like in say 1985. I think the modern coach is more nerdy and new school like McDaniel, O'Connell, Shanahan etc. instead of tough guy bluster.

 

Remember, EB is 55. 

[Thinking Skins]

So I'm going to get off this EB for the next coach talk because that's what I want and if I'm the only one preaching it I'm not going to push a rock up a mountain alone. 

 

But I was thinking about the while BRob catching passes angle and it's been in my head for 2 weeks now. But after Seattle where he exploded with it, I'm wondering is we could use him as more of a weapon. He's nowhere near on CMC level but he has a different set of tools. You see how they didn't want to get near him to tackle him when he was at full power?

 

If we could get him the ball 15 times a game like running and receiving it could be great. I'm just thinking and brainstorming right now but in Scott Abraham today with players he was saying how he tells Howell that he's always open and I think that's led to more checkdowns, so I'm wondering if that's going to be a big part of our second half offense. Gibson too but because BRob plays now snaps he's more of a weapon. 

[dswerdlw]

10 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

EB looks like what the stereotypical football coach would look like in say 1985. I think the modern coach is more nerdy and new school like McDaniel, O'Connell, Shanahan etc. instead of tough guy bluster.

 

Remember, EB is 55. 

You're right, and I lean toward the kinds of coaches you're mentioning. I do pause, though, when I see which coaches have won the past 10 Super Bowls. The only young gun was McVay, right? Otherwise, it's Reid, Arians, Belichick, Pederson, Fox, Carroll, and Harbaugh unless I'm missing someone. I still want to go for a younger guy, but it's worth remembering this list I suppose.

[Warhead36]

9 minutes ago, dswerdlw said:

You're right, and I lean toward the kinds of coaches you're mentioning. I do pause, though, when I see which coaches have won the past 10 Super Bowls. The only young gun was McVay, right? Otherwise, it's Reid, Arians, Belichick, Pederson, Fox, Carroll, and Harbaugh unless I'm missing someone. I still want to go for a younger guy, but it's worth remembering this list I suppose.

I mean ultimately it still comes down to your QB and for the most part all those guys had some damn good ones.

[Conn]

12 hours ago, dswerdlw said:

You're right, and I lean toward the kinds of coaches you're mentioning. I do pause, though, when I see which coaches have won the past 10 Super Bowls. The only young gun was McVay, right? Otherwise, it's Reid, Arians, Belichick, Pederson, Fox, Carroll, and Harbaugh unless I'm missing someone. I still want to go for a younger guy, but it's worth remembering this list I suppose.

It’s true, but suffers from selection bias because out of those coaches, 5 of the 8 won with clear cut HOF QB’s leading the way. Two of them had the same HOF QB, even. Harbaugh and Pederson both won with great rosters that benefited from unsustainably good hot streaks from their QB’s. McVay sold out to bring in an insanely talented vet QB who had never had the fortune of being on a good roster, and even past his prime (similar to the washed up version of Payton that won DEN their SB) he was still instrumental when it counted. 
 

So you can see why the outliers happened and how it isn’t easy to build into and sustain. You almost across the board need to ride streaks of elite QB play to win it all. A HOF QB obviously helps. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Conn

[Conn]

 

[Warhead36]

I forget how good he was in that Bronco comeback. Down 21-3 in his third career start and first on the road and he just delivers strike after strike to lead the rally. 

[SkinsFTW]

2 hours ago, dswerdlw said:

You're right, and I lean toward the kinds of coaches you're mentioning. I do pause, though, when I see which coaches have won the past 10 Super Bowls. The only young gun was McVay, right? Otherwise, it's Reid, Arians, Belichick, Pederson, Fox, Carroll, and Harbaugh unless I'm missing someone. I still want to go for a younger guy, but it's worth remembering this list I suppose.

 

Kubiak, not Fox. 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

I'm not excited about Ben Johnson. I like that he knows offense and Sam but for all we know he could be another Norv. I want someone who can lead men. And put together game plans. 

 

Now the Philly coach was a laughter when I first saw him so I'm not going to say it's all or nothing but I don't want to think he's in over his head. I definitely felt that about the giants coaches before the current one. 

 

Part of the appeal to me about Ben Johnson is the fact that he's not just a good coordinator but has a reputation for being a leader.

 

As far as Bieneimy, I think profile wise Zorn would be a possible analogy.  Both are oldish first time HC prospects, mid 50s.  Both IMO are bit weird and not everyone's cup of tea.   Granted they both are a different brand of weird.

 

We heard during the off season, I know Logan was one I believe Keim was the other, that not every player likes Bieiniemy.  Terry has taken some implicit shots about Bieiniemy about how long he takes to adjust in games.  And Keim said that's a big deal when Terry talks and Terry isn't the type to take a more direct shot.

 

I think Bieineimy has lucked out that Howell is actually good.  It's not IMO that he's good because of Bieiniemy but he's actually good.  The receivers aren't having a good year under him, neither is the running game.  Seems there is evidence that he pounded the table for Wylie.  It's not all sunshine and rainbows for him.

 

I don't hate him as some here do as a coordinator but i do agree that he doesn't factor complementary football.  He's been up and down as a coordinator.  The Giants and Bills coaching staff ate him for lunch but he's had some good plans too.  I wouldn't hate it all if the HC maintains him as a coordinator.  I wouldn't be excited about it either but to me it would be OK.

 

But a dude who is hated by some of his ex-players who apparently isn't loved by all his current players who comes off a bit odd in press conferences including talking about himself in third person -- who has somewhat of a past in Colorado that's far from pristine, who has failed in like 15 coaching interviews because what reputable national reporters have said that he doesn't interivew well in part because he isn't prepared.   

 

Just doesn't scream that's who I want for my next head coach.  It would feel very Dan like move.  Old school Dan could get top coaches but after that not so much.  Someone like Bieiniemy would be a swing for the fences coach for Dan.  But for Harris it feels very "meh" to me.  And this is coming from someone who liked the hire as an offensive coordinator.  But the more I watch and hear about him the less he comes off to me like a good HC -- he comes off to me a low floor, this could be Zornish level bad.  I could be wrong of course but that's my gut right now.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38508867/the-rise-detroit-lions-oc-ben-johnson

 

 

The rise of Detroit Lions offensive coordinator Ben Johnson

DETROIT -- It didn't take long for Amon-Ra St. Brown to realize Ben Johnson was different.

Ahead of the 2021 season opener, the then-tight ends coach was tasked with presenting red-zone installs in front of the entire Detroit Lions team.

St. Brown -- then a Lions rookie receiver -- had heard other coaches present strategies for first, second and third down situations, but Johnson's delivery stood out immediately.

"The way he's explaining the plays, the way he's detailed with how we've got to run these routes in the red zone, I just knew the way he was talking to us, it just felt different," St. Brown recalled. "I told one of my teammates, I forgot who it was, I was like, 'Bro, when Ben gets up there, he knows exactly what he's talking about, he's telling us what he sees in this play, what he wants us to do. There's no gray area. It's super detailed.'"

 

After an 0-8 start to the season, Johnson was given playcalling responsibilities along with coach Dan Campbell, who assumed the role after the team demoted offensive coordinator Anthony Lynn. Johnson was officially named offensive coordinator the following offseason.

With Johnson fully at the helm, the Lions offense has become one of the NFL's best. Detroit had eight games with 30 or more points last season, which set a single-season franchise record. And since the start of the 2022 campaign, Detroit ranks fifth in offensive expected points added (EPA) while averaging 5.9 yards per play, which ranks fifth in the NFL, according to ESPN Stats & Information. Detroit's 50 plays of 25-plus yards are the sixth-most over that span.

Now, in his second season as OC and heading into Thursday night clash at the Green Bay Packers (8:15 p.m. ET, Prime Video), the 37-year-old has gone from unknown tight ends coach to one of the hottest names on the NFL's head coaching market.

 

 

This offseason, Johnson interviewed for head coaching jobs with the Houston Texans and Indianapolis Colts. He was scheduled to meet with the Carolina Panthers before returning to help the Lions try to reach the playoffs for the first time since 2016.

"He definitely has the characteristics to be a head coach," Lions running back David Montgomery said. "And he'll get there eventually, if that's what he wants ultimately, but right now he's just focused on right now and helping us be the best versions of ourselves."

 

Johnson said he appreciated being considered for head coaching positions, but his decision to stay was about the atmosphere he helped Campbell create in Detroit. After speaking with his family, he didn't want to ruin a good thing. He's committed to building a winner in Detroit.

"Truthfully, it's not about me and it never has been. So, for them, I think it's a player's game. They're going out there playing. Yeah, I'm still here, whether they like me or not, I don't really know, but the fact of the matter is, it's about them and that's the mindset we take as a coaching staff each and every day," Johnson said. "It doesn't matter who is the coordinator, who's the playcaller, who the position coaches are, we're here for them to make them the best players that they can possibly make this organization win as many games as we possibly can."

 

WHEN THE LIONS made Johnson their offensive coordinator in February of 2022, news traveled fast that the team had locked up one of the bright young coaches in the league.

While preparing his team to face the Los Angeles Rams in Super Bowl LVI, Cincinnati Bengals head coach Zac Taylor took time during a media session to praise Johnson.

"I've tried to hire Ben many, many, many times. He always just gets promoted to where I can't get him. [Lions coach] Dan [Campbell] knows that," Taylor told reporters. "I've always tried to find a place for him on staff, whether it's offense, defense, special [teams], it doesn't matter. He's one of those guys you want on your staff because he's brilliant."

 

....Campbell describes Johnson as a "chess player". He says Johnson puts a lot of time and thought into getting certain players touches and when to call plays, which, according to Campbell, is key in building the gameplan for the week.

"He can identify quickly things that, 'Man, I know I've got to be better here. I won't ever do that again. Man, if we play these guys again, this is exactly what I would do,'" Campbell said.

 

"He's got an answer for all of it in real time and the more he memory banks, he just keeps getting better and better and growing. And then even from the game-plan standpoint, putting players in the best position to have success."

Johnson displayed his sense of timing in the fourth quarter of a Week 14 victory over the Minnesota Vikings last season. Nursing a late lead, on a critical third-and-7, he drew up a trick play for Lions offensive tackle Penei Sewell, whose 9-yard catch extended the drive and helped the Lions seal a 34-23 win.

"You can't do that if you don't have a coordinator that's got vision, flexibility and belief in what he does so Ben's outstanding," Campbell said. "He's doing a hell of a job, [he's] his own worst critic, too. He's harder on himself than anybody can be, so he's driven that way."

 

...Players say Johnson's word carries weight around the Lions' facility because they see him logging long hours in the office -- and in the gym -- just like them.

"If he's saying something, there's a reason. I'm not gonna question what he's saying because I know he's up there watching film," St. Brown said. "I know he's spending hours in this building so when he tells me something, I'm not even second guessing. I'm like, 'OK, Ben said this. He's saying it for a reason and I'm listening to him.'

"There's no question. For me, I respect the hell out of that because I know he's putting the work in everyday, he's watching the tape, he wants to be great, and he's never satisfied. That's something that I really like about him, too."

 

With Johnson guiding him, Goff put together one of the best stretches of his career. His streak of 383 consecutive passes without an interception was recently snapped in the Week 2 loss to the Seattle Seahawks, but it marked the third-longest such streak in NFL history behind only Aaron Rodgers (402 straight in 2018) and Tom Brady (399 straight in 2022). Last year, Goff also posted the franchise's lowest single-season interception rate (1.2%) and touchdown-to-interception ratio (4.14) in a single season.

The former No. 1 overall pick highlighted Johnson's ability to communicate and listen as his biggest strengths, and said he's open to implement suggestions from players during the game.

 

"Constant communication and honesty. He's not afraid to check me and then not afraid to tell me I'm doing s--t right," Goff told ESPN. "We have a very open communication and relationship, where I can come to him, and vent and he can come to me and I can also go to him with ideas. Obviously, he's the idea guy, but if I have stuff that I think will work, he'll listen to everything. He's a great listener."

Entering last season, Goff and Johnson made a pact that they were committed to having each other's backs, through good and bad times, to build a winning culture in Detroit. They've stayed true to that and now have their sights set on helping the Lions win their first division title in three decades.

"He's not afraid to coach me and coach me hard and that's what I crave," Goff said. "I love being coached hard and I love getting feedback. He wants me to be great as much as I want to be great and it's fun to play for a guy like that."

[method man]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38508867/the-rise-detroit-lions-oc-ben-johnson

 

 

The rise of Detroit Lions offensive coordinator Ben Johnson

DETROIT -- It didn't take long for Amon-Ra St. Brown to realize Ben Johnson was different.

Ahead of the 2021 season opener, the then-tight ends coach was tasked with presenting red-zone installs in front of the entire Detroit Lions team.

St. Brown -- then a Lions rookie receiver -- had heard other coaches present strategies for first, second and third down situations, but Johnson's delivery stood out immediately.

"The way he's explaining the plays, the way he's detailed with how we've got to run these routes in the red zone, I just knew the way he was talking to us, it just felt different," St. Brown recalled. "I told one of my teammates, I forgot who it was, I was like, 'Bro, when Ben gets up there, he knows exactly what he's talking about, he's telling us what he sees in this play, what he wants us to do. There's no gray area. It's super detailed.'"

 

After an 0-8 start to the season, Johnson was given playcalling responsibilities along with coach Dan Campbell, who assumed the role after the team demoted offensive coordinator Anthony Lynn. Johnson was officially named offensive coordinator the following offseason.

With Johnson fully at the helm, the Lions offense has become one of the NFL's best. Detroit had eight games with 30 or more points last season, which set a single-season franchise record. And since the start of the 2022 campaign, Detroit ranks fifth in offensive expected points added (EPA) while averaging 5.9 yards per play, which ranks fifth in the NFL, according to ESPN Stats & Information. Detroit's 50 plays of 25-plus yards are the sixth-most over that span.

Now, in his second season as OC and heading into Thursday night clash at the Green Bay Packers (8:15 p.m. ET, Prime Video), the 37-year-old has gone from unknown tight ends coach to one of the hottest names on the NFL's head coaching market.

 

 

This offseason, Johnson interviewed for head coaching jobs with the Houston Texans and Indianapolis Colts. He was scheduled to meet with the Carolina Panthers before returning to help the Lions try to reach the playoffs for the first time since 2016.

"He definitely has the characteristics to be a head coach," Lions running back David Montgomery said. "And he'll get there eventually, if that's what he wants ultimately, but right now he's just focused on right now and helping us be the best versions of ourselves."

 

Johnson said he appreciated being considered for head coaching positions, but his decision to stay was about the atmosphere he helped Campbell create in Detroit. After speaking with his family, he didn't want to ruin a good thing. He's committed to building a winner in Detroit.

"Truthfully, it's not about me and it never has been. So, for them, I think it's a player's game. They're going out there playing. Yeah, I'm still here, whether they like me or not, I don't really know, but the fact of the matter is, it's about them and that's the mindset we take as a coaching staff each and every day," Johnson said. "It doesn't matter who is the coordinator, who's the playcaller, who the position coaches are, we're here for them to make them the best players that they can possibly make this organization win as many games as we possibly can."

 

WHEN THE LIONS made Johnson their offensive coordinator in February of 2022, news traveled fast that the team had locked up one of the bright young coaches in the league.

While preparing his team to face the Los Angeles Rams in Super Bowl LVI, Cincinnati Bengals head coach Zac Taylor took time during a media session to praise Johnson.

"I've tried to hire Ben many, many, many times. He always just gets promoted to where I can't get him. [Lions coach] Dan [Campbell] knows that," Taylor told reporters. "I've always tried to find a place for him on staff, whether it's offense, defense, special [teams], it doesn't matter. He's one of those guys you want on your staff because he's brilliant."

 

....Campbell describes Johnson as a "chess player". He says Johnson puts a lot of time and thought into getting certain players touches and when to call plays, which, according to Campbell, is key in building the gameplan for the week.

"He can identify quickly things that, 'Man, I know I've got to be better here. I won't ever do that again. Man, if we play these guys again, this is exactly what I would do,'" Campbell said.

 

"He's got an answer for all of it in real time and the more he memory banks, he just keeps getting better and better and growing. And then even from the game-plan standpoint, putting players in the best position to have success."

Johnson displayed his sense of timing in the fourth quarter of a Week 14 victory over the Minnesota Vikings last season. Nursing a late lead, on a critical third-and-7, he drew up a trick play for Lions offensive tackle Penei Sewell, whose 9-yard catch extended the drive and helped the Lions seal a 34-23 win.

"You can't do that if you don't have a coordinator that's got vision, flexibility and belief in what he does so Ben's outstanding," Campbell said. "He's doing a hell of a job, [he's] his own worst critic, too. He's harder on himself than anybody can be, so he's driven that way."

 

...Players say Johnson's word carries weight around the Lions' facility because they see him logging long hours in the office -- and in the gym -- just like them.

"If he's saying something, there's a reason. I'm not gonna question what he's saying because I know he's up there watching film," St. Brown said. "I know he's spending hours in this building so when he tells me something, I'm not even second guessing. I'm like, 'OK, Ben said this. He's saying it for a reason and I'm listening to him.'

"There's no question. For me, I respect the hell out of that because I know he's putting the work in everyday, he's watching the tape, he wants to be great, and he's never satisfied. That's something that I really like about him, too."

 

With Johnson guiding him, Goff put together one of the best stretches of his career. His streak of 383 consecutive passes without an interception was recently snapped in the Week 2 loss to the Seattle Seahawks, but it marked the third-longest such streak in NFL history behind only Aaron Rodgers (402 straight in 2018) and Tom Brady (399 straight in 2022). Last year, Goff also posted the franchise's lowest single-season interception rate (1.2%) and touchdown-to-interception ratio (4.14) in a single season.

The former No. 1 overall pick highlighted Johnson's ability to communicate and listen as his biggest strengths, and said he's open to implement suggestions from players during the game.

 

"Constant communication and honesty. He's not afraid to check me and then not afraid to tell me I'm doing s--t right," Goff told ESPN. "We have a very open communication and relationship, where I can come to him, and vent and he can come to me and I can also go to him with ideas. Obviously, he's the idea guy, but if I have stuff that I think will work, he'll listen to everything. He's a great listener."

Entering last season, Goff and Johnson made a pact that they were committed to having each other's backs, through good and bad times, to build a winning culture in Detroit. They've stayed true to that and now have their sights set on helping the Lions win their first division title in three decades.

"He's not afraid to coach me and coach me hard and that's what I crave," Goff said. "I love being coached hard and I love getting feedback. He wants me to be great as much as I want to be great and it's fun to play for a guy like that."

It marries to a quote I saw that his biggest strength is he doesn’t think he knows anything and is very open to listening to ideas.

 

It is going to be a dogfight to get him and the advantage we have over the Chargers is a better owner, BJ is an ex UNC QB (so there may already be a relationship with Sam) and BJ is from Asheville (1 hour flight from Dulles)

48 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Part of the appeal to me about Ben Johnson is the fact that he's not just a good coordinator but has a reputation for being a leader.

 

As far as Bieneimy, I think profile wise Zorn would be a possible analogy.  Both are oldish first time HC prospects, mid 50s.  Both IMO are bit weird and not everyone's cup of tea.   Granted they both are a different brand of weird.

 

We heard during the off season, I know Logan was one I believe Keim was the other, that not every player likes Bieiniemy.  Terry has taken some implicit shots about Bieiniemy about how long he takes to adjust in games.  And Keim said that's a big deal when Terry talks and Terry isn't the type to take a more direct shot.

 

I think Bieineimy has lucked out that Howell is actually good.  It's not IMO that he's good because of Bieiniemy but he's actually good.  The receivers aren't having a good year under him, neither is the running game.  Seems there is evidence that he pounded the table for Wylie.  It's not all sunshine and rainbows for him.

 

I don't hate him as some here do as a coordinator but i do agree that he doesn't factor complementary football.  He's been up and down as a coordinator.  The Giants and Bills coaching staff ate him for lunch but he's had some good plans too.  I wouldn't hate it all if the HC maintains him as a coordinator.  I wouldn't be excited about it either but to me it would be OK.

 

But a dude who is hated by some of his ex-players who apparently isn't loved by all his current players who comes off a bit odd in press conferences including talking about himself in third person -- who has somewhat of a past in Colorado that's far from pristine, who has failed in like 15 coaching interviews because what reputable national reporters have said that he doesn't interivew well in part because he isn't prepared.   

 

Just doesn't scream that's who I want for my next head coach.  It would feel very Dan like move.  Old school Dan could get top coaches but after that not so much.  Someone like Bieiniemy would be a swing for the fences coach for Dan.  But for Harris it feels very "meh" to me.  And this is coming from someone who liked the hire as an offensive coordinator.  But the more I watch and hear about him the less he comes off to me like a good HC -- he comes off to me a low floor, this could be Zornish level bad.  I could be wrong of course but that's my gut right now.

 

 

He being Zorn level bad is a stretch. He has achieved way more as a coach than Zorn could ever dream. The window we have gotten into his staff building shows he is willing to hire young smart guys he has not worked with before like Pritchard.

 

That being said, I would be way more excited about Ben Johnson and a few others

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, method man said:

It marries to a quote I saw that his biggest strength is he doesn’t think he knows anything and is very open to listening to ideas.

 

It is going to be a dogfight to get him and the advantage we have over the Chargers is a better owner, BJ is an ex UNC QB (so there may already be a relationship with Sam) and BJ is from Asheville (1 hour flight from Dulles)

 

Also having those extra draft picks might be appealing. And cap room.  The Lions did well capitalizing on their draft capital.  He can find his own Laporta for example maybe in Ja'Tavion Sanders or whomever.  And find his J. Gibbs. 

 

I think he'd rebuild the O line.   I recall reading a long article about how he values the O line and utilizes them in Detriot.   For those (I am in that group) who are in the camp that having a good O line is weapon versus a luxury that isn't necessary -- Ben strikes me as our kind of guy.  

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-ahead-of-week-10

 

1. DETROIT LIONS (NO CHANGE)

Projected Week 10 starters:

LT Taylor Decker
LG Jonah Jackson
C Frank Ragnow
RG Halapoulivaati Vaitai
RT Penei Sewell

• The Detroit Lions were on bye in Week 9.

• The Lions offensive line ranks third in the NFL in pass-blocking efficiency through nine weeks. The unit has allowed 72 pressures on 311 dropbacks, and no offensive line has allowed fewer sacks.

Best player: Penei Sewell

• Sewell has earned an 82.4 overall grade, fourth among 81 qualifying tackles. He is on pace for a career-best grade even though he has had to play both left tackle and right tackle this season.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

9 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

EB looks like what the stereotypical football coach would look like in say 1985. I think the modern coach is more nerdy and new school like McDaniel, O'Connell, Shanahan etc. instead of tough guy bluster.

 

Remember, EB is 55. 

 

O'Connell looks like Captain America.  NFL coaches don't really have a type, but all of them are jocks or former jocks gone to seed.  Even McDaniel, who looks nerdy, played wide receiver in college.  As far as I know, every single HC in the nfl played the sport at least to the college level, though for some it was the JUCO or D3 level.

 

Interesting note, most of the head coaches in the NFL today were DBs or receivers.  I would have thought QB or OL, but the most common position was safety.

[Llevron]

2 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 gone to seed.

 

I have never heard this expression before. My wife has me by 6 months....gonna try this one out and report back. 

[DWinzit]

I like the Dan Campbell nerdy look on our sidelines myself 😜

 

I agree there isn't a specific look but one thing is for certain, they all are using nerdy metrics more and more and they are proving to be the way to go 

Edited November 16, 2023 by DWinzit

[Going Commando]

3 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

I have never heard this expression before. My wife has me by 6 months....gonna try this one out and report back. 

 

It's an old fashioned phrase meaning something past it's prime.  Comes from horticulture I think, where plants that have gone to seed are past their flowering phase.

[OtisDriftwood25]

People are giving EB a bad wrap on here. Do I want him being our next head coach at the moment-no. He has his flaws, run game, expecting lineman to block, and so on. I have been really impressed with his demeanor and play calling. People forget how bad things can be. Run, run, pass/ run, run, pass. For the past 25 years, this is definitely top 5 Washington offense. This isn’t a team he drafted or involved in player personnel either. This team is a line away from being a dominant offense.

[Going Commando]

4 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I like the Dan Campbell nerdy look myself 😜

 

I agree there isn't a specific look but one thing is for certain, they all are using nerdy metrics more and more and they are proving to be the way to go 

 

Yeah.  They're all smart and capable of using the tools provided to analyze and plan.  I think the common thread that binds all successful NFL coaches is being obsessive over details, and grinding out work product.

 

There is much more of a type for college coaches.  That schedule is a lot worse than it is in the NFL because of the recruiting cycle, so you get less detail obsessed "football nerds" and more charismatic CEO self driven types who can handle the horrendous travel schedule and be fresh and capable of cheerfully pitching themselves and their program in a glad handing booster event or a recruit's living room on two hours of sleep.

[DWinzit]

11 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Yeah.  They're all smart and capable of using the tools provided to analyze and plan.  I think the common thread that binds all successful NFL coaches is being obsessive over details, and grinding out work product.

 

There is much more of a type for college coaches.  That schedule is a lot worse than it is in the NFL because of the recruiting cycle, so you get less detail obsessed "football nerds" and more charismatic CEO self driven types who can handle the horrendous travel schedule and be fresh and capable of cheerfully pitching themselves and their program in a glad handing booster event or a recruit's living room on two hours of sleep.

You are correct, smart, organized and obsessed with detail has been a common quality with most proven leaders.

 

Communication and being able to read the audience has also proven a key factor. There have been a number of good coaches who have lost their teams because they lost touch with the players.

 

They also really need to have a vision of what they want with the ability to maneuver through what you have with in your players or what the opponent is throwing at you. 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, OtisDriftwood25 said:

People are giving EB a bad wrap on here. Do I want him being our next head coach at the moment-no. He has his flaws, run game, expecting lineman to block, and so on. I have been really impressed with his demeanor and play calling. People forget how bad things can be. Run, run, pass/ run, run, pass. For the past 25 years, this is definitely top 5 Washington offense. This isn’t a team he drafted or involved in player personnel either. This team is a line away from being a dominant offense.

 

I feel mixed about Bieniemy as a play caller.  Higher than him than some of the critics here.  Lower on him that some of the ones pushing him.

 

From what's been said, even Rivera hinted at it, Bieniemy has indeed been involved with personnel this off season.  i get the vibe Wylie and Gates were his wants.  They mentioned Rodriguez was his guy in the draft, etc.  But yeah granted its just one off season.

 

My issue with Bieniemy is he doesn't come off to me even remotely as a HC.  That's all I care about.  I don't think old school Dan Snyder style they will keep the coordinator while searching for a HC.  Feels like with Bieineimy is HC or bust.  Speaking for myself, I'd vastly dislike the hire.  Ditto the Belichick rumors, I hope its not him either.    

Edited November 16, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Listening to Keim-Sheehan podcast.

 

Sheehan said he heard that this regime would hire the GM first and have the GM hire the coach.   Keim suspects but doesn't know that Harris has someone advising him now.   Keim for the 10th time in the last month or so went on and on about the O line needing to better.  And he suggested that this regime now realizes that.   Keim is pretty high on Howell.  they talked about the defense.  Keim said thus far Forbes hasn't brought them what they wanted. 

 

On a different podcast, Keim mentioned CB as an off season need.  And the secondary struggles have come he thinks in part because they are playing more man and struggiling with it.

 

He mentioned that while Larsen hasn't been great he's done better in calling pass protection which is something Gates struggled with.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

All that Ben Johnson article does is further deepen the likely depression I will have when he doesn’t end up here.  A true GM, Ben Johnson working with Howell, is all I want for a late Christmas.