The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Command The 414]

58 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

 

If we do head in this apparent direction, I also hope we utilise our cap space well. Getting Wentz off the books takes us to 30-35mil in space. Couple of reasonable restructures/cuts/whatever else likely gets us nicely to 40mil range. 
 

Add 2 or 3 key pieces in free agency, sensible moves......and do something positive with the Payne contract situation, even if that is a tag and trade for 2023 compensation. 

I'm absolutely in favor of this approach as well....

[Koolblue13]

I think Carr is worth every penny of $35mil a year also. I'm extremely high on him and I've been out on Stafford, Watson, Russ, Rodgers, etc.

 

With the ownership and EB and the hot seat and who knows what the hell else is going to happen over the next year or two, Riding with Howell and full support from the coaches and drafting later QBs is the total way to go.

[Est.1974]

58 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think Carr is worth every penny of $35mil a year also. I'm extremely high on him and I've been out on Stafford, Watson, Russ, Rodgers, etc.

 

With the ownership and EB and the hot seat and who knows what the hell else is going to happen over the next year or two, Riding with Howell and full support from the coaches and drafting later QBs is the total way to go.

I don’t think he’s worth 35mil per year. Id want a QB getting that much to be the major factor in our success, I don’t see Carr doing that. And I’m someone who really rates him.

[FootballZombie]

I think Carr is worth 35 Mil.

 

I'm kinda surprized if he really is only pushing for that price point rather than trying to force someone to give him 40 per like other QBs are. Usually dudes in his position are at least trying to bend teams over a barrel.

 

D Jones agent trying to get 45 Mil in booku-bucks.

Lamar is trying to get all the G money in the world.

 

and then there is Car only looking for 35?! He is practically doing his future team a favor at that price point. He is a universally unquestioned franchise QB, If he wanted to ask for 40+ he would be fully justified. He may not get it, but he could ask for it from a negotiating standpoint.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

I was all in on Carr as well. Even so this offseason. But 30mil plus per year. No way.

How much do you expect the guy to play for?  $35M is actually $5.5M less per season on average than his last deal.

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

How much do you expect the guy to play for?  $35M is actually $5.5M less per season on average than his last deal.

How much did he actually get paid in 2022 form that deal ?

 

Plus, he may be worth that to many, that’s fine, I’m a major fan of Carr. Just don’t think he’s worth 35mil p/y to us.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

24 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

How much did he actually get paid in 2022 form that deal ?

 

Plus, he may be worth that to many, that’s fine, I’m a major fan of Carr. Just don’t think he’s worth 35mil p/y to us.

Not sure.

 

I’m not interested in acquiring him either.  I just thought it was odd for someone to be all about getting him but scoffing at $35M.  We just spent $30M on Wentz.

[Est.1974]

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Not sure.

 

I’m not interested in acquiring him either.  I just thought it was odd for someone to be all about getting him but scoffing at $35M.  We just spent $30M on Wentz.

I’m not scoffing. Simply saying 35mil wouldn’t be for me.

 

I think he earned 25mil in 2022. After that LV bailed out.

[KDawg]

Carr is worth 30-35 million if your team needs a QB or is desperate for one.

 

Hes not for us.

[skinzplay]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Carr is worth 30-35 million if your team needs a QB or is desperate for one.

 

Hes not for us.

Preach!!

[skinsfan66]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Carr is worth 30-35 million if your team needs a QB or is desperate for one.

 

Hes not for us.

Total agree, not for us, All in on Howe, save the money. 

[philibusters]

I think Carr is probably worth 35 million dollars, but I would rather roll with Howell and see what we have there.

 

Eric Eager, before left PFF, on their betting podcast said each win above replacement in free agency is worth somewhere in the ball park of 40 million dollars per year in free agency.   Thus a guy making 20 million a year should be worth half a win above replacement.  The free agent markets are somewhat efficient so its hard to find big values in free agency unless you get a guy break out after you sign them.  However the one position where it is possible to get huge value is QB.   If Patrick Mahomes is worth 4 games above replacement level a year and you are only paying 40 million that is a tremedous value and that is likely while Kansas City will always be contenders as long as he is around.

To be worth 35 million, Derek Carr would probably have to be one game above replacement level.   I don't quite know how PFF is defining replacement level, but most likely Taylor Heincke is somewhat close to what they consider a replacement level QB.  Do I think Carr is probably worth a game or two above Heincke.  I do.  Therefore, I think he is worth the money.  However, I want to gamble on Howell.

[88Comrade2000]

8 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I just read Carr is shooting for $35M per on a long term deal.  I would prefer $30M but I could see a team being able to structure $35M per in a way they can compete.

 

I don’t think we can afford to jump in his market for a variety of reasons, but something tells me we try.

We are riding with Howell and will

get a lower tier backup.

 

We aren’t participating in the top tier qb market this year.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, skinsfan66 said:

Total agree, not for us, All in on Howe, save the money. 

I love this, no L’s in sight for our boy Howe 

[88Comrade2000]

The bulk of our money this offseason needs to go to the oline.

[bird_1972]

39 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

The bulk of our money this offseason needs to go to the oline.

 

Hopefully, we get some of that talent cheap via the draft. 

 

I'm not in favor of spending a ton of $$ on a veteran QB. Been there, done that.

[RandyHolt]

Easy hard pass on send in the CARRR.  Its not just getting him. Its inking him to some outrageous contract and throwing in picks ignoring drafting our own. Again.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Easy hard pass on send in the CARRR.  Its not just getting him. Its inking him to some outrageous contract and throwing in picks ignoring drafting our own. Again.

Well, we wouldn’t need to throw in picks. He’s a free agent. But agree I’m not picking him up and rolling with the guy we drafted.

[mhd24]

JLC was on Lombardi's show today and he said Lamar is getting traded (after he is franchised).  Obviously Baltimore trades him to the NFC.  I wonder who trades for him?  I could see Atlanta doing it.

[CTskin]

Carr is top 15ish… never been considered a top 10, I don’t understand the infatuation here… especially if he’d essentially eat all of our cap and price us out of tagging payne.

 

we’re many pieces away from real success and a slightly above avg qb isn’t the answer. He’s Kirk 2.0. An upgrade, but not the guy who you want to rely on in big situations.

[KDawg]

39 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

JLC was on Lombardi's show today and he said Lamar is getting traded (after he is franchised).  Obviously Baltimore trades him to the NFC.  I wonder who trades for him?  I could see Atlanta doing it.

I’m not sure how much teams are going to give up for Lamar. Or what his contract will look like. Maybe it is the Watson amount he’s rumored to want, but I have a suspicion it won’t be. But we’ll see.

[tmandoug1]

So the plan is to go with Howell so we can sign Payne/save cap space? IF we had a shot at Carr we don't want him because he is not good enough? He is most certainly better than our three current Qbs on our roster. Is this thinking due to it being a dead year? It will be interesting to see what EB has to say....

[KDawg]

Just now, tmandoug1 said:

So the plan is to go with Howell so we can sign Payne/save cap space? IF we had a shot at Carr we don't want him because he is not good enough? He is most certainly better than our three current Qbs on our roster. Is this thinking due to it being a dead year? It will be interesting to see what EB has to say....

The plan is to give the young QB we drafted in the fifth round that was heralded as a first rounder the year prior and who looked good the chance to be the guy. He’s on a rookie contract, showed promise, according to our former QB has the full support of the locker room and is a “dog”. 
 

Meanwhile, the team that is desperately in need of OL help doesn’t need to spend $35M on a QB who struggles quite a bit in the cold and when he doesn’t have a line.
 

 

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, tmandoug1 said:

So the plan is to go with Howell so we can sign Payne/save cap space? IF we had a shot at Carr we don't want him because he is not good enough? He is most certainly better than our three current Qbs on our roster. Is this thinking due to it being a dead year? It will be interesting to see what EB has to say....

 

Are you forgetting how bad our OL is?

 

Wentz without an OL is what you saw this year. Carr without an OL would also look like Wentz. Carr is more mobile but without any protection you can't throw the ball downfield or wait for a play to develop. Carr is also an up and down QB just like Wentz, btw. 

 

We desperately need to make sure we have an OL before even thinking about anything else.

 

Howell not only allows us to do such but also with an new offense being installed this is the correct way to do this. No more retreads, finally!

[Conn]

4 hours ago, CTskin said:

Carr is top 15ish… never been considered a top 10, I don’t understand the infatuation here… especially if he’d essentially eat all of our cap and price us out of tagging payne.

 

we’re many pieces away from real success and a slightly above avg qb isn’t the answer. He’s Kirk 2.0. An upgrade, but not the guy who you want to rely on in big situations.

 

What infatuation? There’s like two posters  here who advocate for getting him lol. I’ve almost never seen more agreement here on a topic that could easily turn divisive, actually. Almost the entire forum is on board with rolling Howell no matter what.