The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

10 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

And I wonder if Taylor told Ron I can't run his offense and you are better off putting in Howell. Remember what Ron said about how Taylor made him to come to a realization. Also Ron said today that they wouldn't be opposed to bringing back Taylor. Taylor also said the market is crazy right now so he might leave anyway if another team offers him a better deal. Will see. 

This is what the death throes of the Heini Hive look like. 😆😆😆

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

[Rex Tomb]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I'd go back to the well, can he rescue this offense a 2nd time?

 

 

 

[zCommander]

5 minutes ago, Conn said:

Huh? It’s literally the only NFL offense Heinicke CAN run, and the only reason he has been here. He absolutely did not play a role in making Rivera realize Turner had to go lol, not in the way that you mean anyway. What was Rivera supposed to say about Heinicke today, that it’s a moot question because he’s gonna fire his OC in two hours? 
 

This is weird fan fiction, come on man—you were almost climbed all the way out of the Heiny Hole until you just slipped and fell back in. Now you have to start all over again. 

 

You crack me up! 

Ron did say about the realization and Taylor and going with Howell (I am sure you know how to use Google).  All I am saying, my own opinion, you know just like you have an opinion, anyway, 9 players have come out and said Turner sucks. All I said maybe Taylor was one of them and he told Ron. But you go ahead and assume I meant we should keep Taylor. No. The coach will make that decision.

 

I liked him (the under dog story, sleeping on his sister's couch - I used to sleep on the floor of my apartment because I couldn't afford a bed so I could relate) but still not married to him for which I have said zillions of times. After this year we needed to find our own franchise guy, which I said last year and how we needed an OL also said that last year. Now you are all caught up and can stop this Hieny Hole bull****. Thx!

[Conn]

4 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

You crack me up! 

Ron did say about the realization and Taylor and going with Howell (I am sure you know how to use Google).  All I am saying, my own opinion, you know just like you have an opinion, anyway, 9 players have come out and said Turner sucks. All I said maybe Taylor was one of them and he told Ron. But you go ahead and assume I meant we should keep Taylor. No. The coach will make that decision.

 

I liked him (the under dog story, sleeping on his sister's couch - I used to sleep on the floor of my apartment because I couldn't afford a bed so I could relate) but still not married to him for which I have said zillions of times. After this year we needed to find our own franchise guy, which I said last year and how we needed an OL also said that last year. Now you are all caught up and can stop this Hieny Hole bull****. Thx!

 

It’s just silly, sorry man. Turner and his offense is literally the only reason Heinicke is in the NFL at all. Heinicke made literally millions of dollars entirely because of Turner. To imply that Heinicke’s feedback on Turner’s offense might have been the thing to make Rivera realize Turner needed to go is exactly what I said: fan fiction 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Conn

[zCommander]

6 minutes ago, Conn said:

 

It’s just silly, sorry man. Turner and his offense is literally the only reason Heinicke is in the NFL at all. To imply that Heinicke’s feedback on the offense might have been the thing to make Rivera realize Turner needed to go is exactly what I said: fan fiction 

 

You are making assumptions no more than I am. I did say I wonder if.....

 

[Renegade7]

2 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Agree with the rest, but did we run the ball well?  I mean, we ran a lot, but IIRC we had the 5th worst ypc?

 

With that said, we’ve got a solid stable of backs, so if we beef up the oline big time, we should be able to up that efficiency.

 

I'm not scared, seems like an easy sell the young players we have at RB and WR that we need an oline and QB to maximize their potential, and any legit signal caller will make room for their talent, not whine about they don't fit their stupid system.

 

Ron picking an OC from outside screams an admission the game has passed him by, and will bring someone is more in tune with 21st century offensive schemes and where they want to go with it.

 

2 hours ago, skinny21 said:

On a separate note, while I’m glad Turner is gone, I’m a little bummed because I have trouble seeing a new OC willing to pencil Howell in as the starter, especially given he’ll (almost certainly) be learning a new O.  Seems fairly likely we’ll be somewhat aggressive chasing a veteran qb - in other words more money allocated there (and less elsewhere), and less chance Howell earns the starting gig.  Of course, if we wind up with average plus production from the spot, that could have a significant impact on our record.  I just was hoping we’d go all in on Howell.  Early days though.

 

I don't believe fire Turner means the new OC will automatically want to replace Howell.  I'm willing to bet money anyone that interviews foe the job is going to have to make the case to replace Howell if they say they want to do that.  Given what I've gather from last press conference Ron didn't give keys to Howell but wants him to have a shot at it.  So I don't see him hiring an zoC that won't give him a shot to start and jus want their guy instead.

[tmandoug1]

Howell, Heinicke, Drafted QB camp competition.  Full revamp of the Oline because the next OC will laugh at current roster. Bank it.

[zCommander]

So Ron and the GM are now going to run the ball more? 2-1 ratio?

 

JP Finlay said he doesn't think they will actually do that. I hope they get a OC how can run a balanced offense instead. Run more if the pass is not working depending on the team you are playing against and vise versa. Adjust to your opponents strengths and weakens. Which I thought Turner most of the times failed to see or do and that would include the weakness of this own OL and QB as well. Top priority after the OC is now the OL and then QB for me. 

 

On another note: 

Did anyone listen to Grant and Danny today when they had Jay Gruden on?

 

Jay said he was told to run the ball more and would find a note on his desk on Monday morning because of how good Dallas was with their run game. 

Grant asked if it was Bruce?

Jay said he didn't know who it was but it was typed up and he would just throw the paper in the trashcan

Grant said his guess would be Dan Snyder and did he get a bucket of vanilla ice cream on his desk? 

[KillBill26]

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Now we talkin...when you flame out like he did in Arizona, he'd be lucky to get right into another HC job that quickly.

I don't see NFL head coach in 23 being an option.  Would he take a college head coaching job like Michigan if harbaugh jumps to NFL?

[Jumbo]

 the first step is admitting you have a problem

[Renegade7]

6 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

I don't see NFL head coach in 23 being an option.  Would he take a college head coaching job like Michigan if harbaugh jumps to NFL?

 

I'm not an expert, I jus play one on Extremeskins...I'd ask him to see if he says "no", becsuse you don't take a HC job in college to spring back into the NFL, college takes time to recruit and be competitive depending on the programs you're taking over.  And the big schools will spend the money to try to keep you from going back (see Saban).

Edited January 11, 2023 by Renegade7

[KillBill26]

6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I'm not an expert, I jus play one on Extremeskins...I'd ask him to see if he says "no", becsuse you don't take a HC job in college to spring back into the NFL, college takes time to recruit and be competitive depending on the programs you're taking over.  And the big schools will spend the money to try to keep you from going back (see Saban).

You never know.  Harbaugh has gone from Stanford to 49ers to Michigan, and supposedly trying to get back to NFL.  If you're successful, opportunities abound, and KK has a better chance of success in college than the NFL.  And if the big schools throw money at him like Saban to deter him from fleeing to the NFL, that is a very good problem to have.  He is young, I think there are multiple paths back to NFL head coach, if that's what he wants.

[Renegade7]

9 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

You never know.  Harbaugh has gone from Stanford to 49ers to Michigan, and supposedly trying to get back to NFL.  If you're successful, opportunities abound, and KK has a better chance of success in college than the NFL.  And if the big schools throw money at him like Saban to deter him from fleeing to the NFL, that is a very good problem to have.  He is young, I think there are multiple paths back to NFL head coach, if that's what he wants.

 

Fair point on Harbaugh, but he's more an outlier then the norm in going back and forth as a HC at either level. 

 

He also took SF to the super bowl then spent 7-8 years in Michigan, an example of actually being successful in the NFL, but still spending good amount of time in college before trying to get back in the NFL.

 

KK can either try to rebuild his reputation the hard way in the NFL by staying put or take the risk of also failing in college and making it harder to get back to where he was as an NFL HC.  Really depends on what he wants, I guess, and the money.

[Conn]

6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Fair point on Harbaugh, but he's more an outlier then the norm in going back and forth as a HC at either level. 

 

He also took SF to the super bowl then spent 7-8 years in Michigan, an example of actually being successful in the NFL, but still spending good amount of time in college before trying to get back in the NFL.

 

KK can either try to rebuild his reputation the hard way in the NFL by staying put or take the risk of also failing in college and making it harder to get back to where he was as an NFL HC.  Really depends on what he wants, I guess, and the money.

Harbaugh could have gotten back into the NFL at almost any time in those 8ish years, in fact multiple times he used real NFL interest and interviews to force Michigan to juice up his contract so that he could get big time paid to keep doing what he wanted to be doing. He hasn’t been coaching Michigan because he couldn’t get back into the NFL as a HC, he’s been coaching Michigan because that’s where he preferred to be. 
 

Kingsbury wasn’t even remotely a successful college HC despite eventually having Mahomes (at which point his offense was attractive enough to earn him a HC shot in the NFL from a team desperate for a young innovate playcaller). But overall he was a poor recruiter and poor coach. He got six seasons, got fired, and didn’t even finish his college HC career at .500! He may be forced to coordinate a successful offense for quite a while before he’s considered for any HC position again—college or NFL. 

[mistertim]

54 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Howell, Heinicke, Drafted QB camp competition.  Full revamp of the Oline because the next OC will laugh at current roster. Bank it.

 

I'd be pretty shocked if Heinicke is back now that Turner is gone. Turner was basically his life support system and now that's gone. Even Heinicke's instagram post seems to sound like he knows the end of his time in Washington is near.

[zCommander]

3 hours ago, Rex Tomb said:

I wonder if Kliff Kingsbury would be willing to take an OC position.  

 

KK could look at Washington as a stepping stone to become a HC again. Comes in as an OC and waits until the new owners take over and then takes the HC position again after Ron is let go. But he would have to be lights out or close to it at least with our offense to make an impression for the HC gig. 

[Renegade7]

13 minutes ago, Conn said:

Harbaugh could have gotten back into the NFL at almost any time in those 8ish years, in fact multiple times he used real NFL interest and interviews to force Michigan to juice up his contract so that he could get big time paid to keep doing what he wanted to be doing. He hasn’t been coaching Michigan because he couldn’t get back into the NFL as a HC, he’s been coaching Michigan because that’s where he preferred to be. 
 

 

To be clear, I never said that, and emphasized that Harbaugh is an outlier in rhe conversation of HCs bouncing back and forth between college.

 

13 minutes ago, Conn said:

Kingsbury wasn’t even remotely a successful college HC despite eventually having Mahomes (at which point his offense was attractive enough to earn him a HC shot in the NFL from a team desperate for a young innovate playcaller). But overall he was a poor recruiter and poor coach. He got six seasons, got fired, and didn’t even finish his college HC career at .500! He may be forced to coordinate a successful offense for quite a while before he’s considered for any HC position again—college or NFL. 

 

Couldn't agree more...he showed big balls picking Murray right after his predecessor picked Rosen, and it seems that's only thing he got right in Arizona.

 

The idea he's above being an OC here, I'm not buying it.

 

Seeing this, reservations he fits the bill, pretty clear Ron wants a run oriented offense, KK might be able to make a sell based on his experience with mobile QBs in Arizona, but never took his Cardinals as a grind it out football team...

 

https://es.pn/3W60aG2 via @ESPN App http://espn.com/app

Edited January 11, 2023 by Renegade7

[Conn]

27 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Couldn't agree more...he showed big balls picking Murray right after his predecessor picked Rosen, and it seems that's only thing he got right in Arizona.

He was actually hired directly because of Murray. The GM Keim and the Bidwells knew they wanted to take Murray #1 overall if he didn’t choose baseball, to mow over the Rosen blunder. So they were determined to hire the guy they thought would work best with Murray, or alternatively fix Rosen. They were so desperate for a young offensive mind who could develop Murray that they ignored all the red flags with his coaching history.
 

And Kingsbury strangely enough had a soundbite recorded earlier that year where he said that if he was an NFL franchise he’d take Murray #1 without hesitation—this was before the Cardinals had earned that pick and before it was even clear that Murray wouldn’t choose baseball, so just a crazy coincidence. But because of that, when he was hired by ARI the media speculation immediately ratcheted up that they’d take Murray, despite the Rosen pick the year before. Internally they already knew, though. 

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I'm not scared, seems like an easy sell the young players we have at RB and WR that we need an oline and QB to maximize their potential, and any legit signal caller will make room for their talent, not whine about they don't fit their stupid system.

Not trying to be any way, but I’m not quite sure what this response had to do with me questioning if our run game is/was actually very good?

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Ron picking an OC from outside screams an admission the game has passed him by, and will bring someone is more in tune with 21st century offensive schemes and where they want to go with it.

I hope so.  Can’t say their words about a run heavy offense is all that encouraging on that front though, lol.  Not that I necessarily mind it.

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

 

I don't believe fire Turner means the new OC will automatically want to replace Howell.  I'm willing to bet money anyone that interviews foe the job is going to have to make the case to replace Howell if they say they want to do that.  Given what I've gather from last press conference Ron didn't give keys to Howell but wants him to have a shot at it.  So I don't see him hiring an zoC that won't give him a shot to start and jus want their guy instead.

Of for sure, I’d be absolutely willing to bet a new OC won’t automatically want to replace Howell (or maybe even be allowed to by Ron).  But hanging their hat on him without suitable competition? Not so sure.  And as I said, a qb competition involving a vet (likely in an offense easier for them to adjust to than Turner’s) vs Howell in his second offense splitting reps… not the easiest situation for him.  Not exactly ideal that it’s a new OC under an HC with an uncertain tenure either.

 

Who knows how things play out though. 🤷‍♂️

[shemp nixon]

6 hours ago, Jumbo said:

 

I know there's still a few here that likely label me a heinie hater but I really don't want him back at all under any condition, including if he played for free.

 

I won't repeat all my reasoning again, and I do reject the whole inane "but he won games" argument, but no more qbs who are simply spinning wheels in the sand in terms of quality play at starter or primary back up.

 

Set some self respecting standards for real success.

 

 

 

 

 

We are in total agreement here, brother.

[Renegade7]

6 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Not trying to be any way, but I’m not quite sure what this response had to do with me questioning if our run game is/was actually very good?

 

Not really saying you're wrong on how inefficient the run game was, jus saying that doesn't phase me because the talent in our backfield is obvious and what looked like production was through attrition via that talent.  A better OC and oline will bring that ypc number, for sure, I have zero concerns on that (not saying you are, think we in agreement here).

 

6 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I hope so.  Can’t say their words about a run heavy offense is all that encouraging on that front though, lol.  Not that I necessarily mind it.

 

Lol, yea know, Ron is pretty stuck in his ways, but I'll give him credit for checking his loyalty habit and dumping Scott.  No doubt in my mind he started getting more involved in the offense and that's really why we started becoming more run heavy as season went on.

 

Theres a clip running around ESPN about possibility if they cant find someone external they like theyll jus promote Zampese 😑

 

6 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Of for sure, I’d be absolutely willing to bet a new OC won’t automatically want to replace Howell (or maybe even be allowed to by Ron).  But hanging their hat on him without suitable competition? Not so sure.  And as I said, a qb competition involving a vet (likely in an offense easier for them to adjust to than Turner’s) vs Howell in his second offense splitting reps… not the easiest situation for him.  Not exactly ideal that it’s a new OC under an HC with an uncertain tenure either.

 

Who knows how things play out though. 🤷‍♂️

 

I can dig it on all points.  

 

Two things I'll look for is if OC says they need someone in the QB that already knows his offense and what kinda control Ron gives the new OC on his own offensive staff.  A situation where it's more like someone is getting slotted in could lead to folks saying "no" then Zampese getting the job internally instead.

 

If we were smart, we'd try to hire somebody as a possible option to train for assistant head coaching duties in event Ron has retire for "health reasons"

[petey hodge]

I actually like our coaches.... what gives?

 

 

[Rex Tomb]

7 hours ago, zCommander said:

But he would have to be lights out or close to it at least with our offense to make an impression for the HC gig. 

Which leads me to believe he would put every ounce of blood, sweat, and tears into making sure that is the case.

[DWinzit]

5 hours ago, petey hodge said:

I actually like our coaches.... what gives?

 

 

You can through Kevin O'Connell in that group too

[DWinzit]

I don't see TH returning, Rivera moved from him numerous times over the years seemed to begrudgingly would go back to him as starter.

He seems to like stronger armed QB's. This would also lead me to wonder if Fromm will stay. We is a good QB with a small arm