The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[gbear]

1 hour ago, Thirtyfive2seven said:

Cousins is the best QB on that entire list.. It's not even close and this cluster **** organization threw him away.

um, no.

Gannon went on to win league MVP.

Trent Green is on the Chief's ring of honor.

I think a case can be made for Brad Johnson too.  He was a pretty darn good QB who lead the Bucs to Super Bowl glory long before Brady.

 

Our organization has a long history of throwing out gold with our trash.  

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by gbear

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

1 hour ago, BrentMeisterGeneral said:

I know absolutely no one needs to hear it but I just had my first ever box of NFL Panini cards shipped over to England, and within that box was a Blue Parallel 10/35 Sam Howell Autographed card

 

Its a sign I tell you, A SIGN!!!

 

wohoo

[redskinss]

6 hours ago, woodpecker said:

If Houston falls to No. 2 and has its eyes set on drafting a particular passer, it might be willing pay a steep price to move to No. 1 to ensure that happens and block another team.

If that happens the fans in Houston would have a legitimate right to burn the stadium to the ground.

Edited January 5, 2023 by redskinss

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

When is the last time this team drafted a QB high who succeeded while he was still here? RG III may be the last one, and he flamed out in his second year.

 

Look at our past QB and where they came from:

 

Jurgensen - retread from Eagles

Kilmer - retread from Saints

Theismann - retread from CFL

Jay Schroeder - had some good games 86-87

Williams - retread from Buccaneers/USFL

Rypien - had two good years, then sucked

Shuler - OH PLEASE THAT'S FUNNY

Frerotte - had some good games 94-97 until he rammed his head into a wall

Green - retread from Chargers/CFL

Johnson - retread from Vikings

George - retread from Colts/Falcons

Banks - retread from Rams

Ramsey - never consistent

 

Feel free to add to the list...

Edited January 5, 2023 by BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen

[illone]

2 minutes ago, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

When is the last time this team drafted a QB high who succeeded while he was still here? RG III may be the last one, and he flamed out in his second year.

 

Look at our past:

Jurgensen - retread from Eagles

Kilmer - retread from Saints

Theismann - retread from CFL

Jay Schroeder - had some good games 86-87

Williams - retread from Buccaneers/USFL

Rypien - had two good years, then sucked

Shuler - OH PLEASE

Frerotte - had some good games 94-97

 

Feel free to add to the list...

 

past is prologue. 

[illone]

5 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The best possible outcome is Howell plays off the charts and we lose. 
 

At this point, I’d like to roll with Howell next season and see what happens.  No point in Ron spending resources when he’s likely on the way out.

 

 

I'm with you on this, unless Aaron Rodgers becomes available. I think you ride it out with Howell/Heine and focus on the '24 draft if Howell busts. 

 

I'm perfectly fine with this being a lame duck year for Rivera.  Let the new owner get settled in and clean house.

 

 

[Zim489]

2 minutes ago, illone said:

 

 

I'm with you on this, unless Aaron Rodgers becomes available. I think you ride it out with Howell/Heine and focus on the '24 draft if Howell busts. 

 

I'm perfectly fine with this being a lame duck year for Rivera.  Let the new owner get settled in and clean house.

 

 

I wouldnt bring back taylor. Its a drug habit that needs cut off cold turkey for the fan base 

[mh86]

32 minutes ago, illone said:

 

 

I'm with you on this, unless Aaron Rodgers becomes available. I think you ride it out with Howell/Heine and focus on the '24 draft if Howell busts. 

 

I'm perfectly fine with this being a lame duck year for Rivera.  Let the new owner get settled in and clean house.

 

 

I’d let heini walk, draft a mid round QB and bring in whoever the hell else for competition. Ride with Howell, swap to rookie or whoever else if the season is in the trash. However, Ron and co will want to do their best to win so it’s most likely another retread and a mediocre season

[illone]

9 minutes ago, mh86 said:

I’d let heini walk, draft a mid round QB and bring in whoever the hell else for competition. Ride with Howell, swap to rookie or whoever else if the season is in the trash. However, Ron and co will want to do their best to win so it’s most likely another retread and a mediocre season

 

 

Im fine with this as well as the general idea being we dont reach for a QB this off-season as it appears to be slim pickens in Free Agency, and doubtful we have the ammunition to move up in the draft to get a stud.  

 

I do feel for the players in this situation, you never want to root for complete failure but it might be worth it next year due to who will be on that draft board in '24.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

When is the last time this team drafted a QB high who succeeded while he was still here? RG III may be the last one, and he flamed out in his second year.

 

Look at our past QB and where they came from:

 

Jurgensen - retread from Eagles

Kilmer - retread from Saints

Theismann - retread from CFL

Jay Schroeder - had some good games 86-87

Williams - retread from Buccaneers/USFL

Rypien - had two good years, then sucked

Shuler - OH PLEASE THAT'S FUNNY

Frerotte - had some good games 94-97 until he rammed his head into a wall

Green - retread from Chargers/CFL

Johnson - retread from Vikings

George - retread from Colts/Falcons

Banks - retread from Rams

Ramsey - never consistent

 

Feel free to add to the list...

 

Stan Humphries was ok for a little bit but did so after being traded. 

 

Yeah draft's been ironically worse than the veteran route.

 

Everything being equal, I prefer the draft.

 

But the idea that we've failed here because of a particular avenue we've taken IMO isn't so.  It's about getting the wrong guy whether in the draft or the veteran route.

Edited January 6, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

20 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

So you think he is still not ready and Ron is making a mistake by starting Howell?

Howell is being played only after there is nothing to play for.

 

Surely you see that Ron refused to play Howell until there was literally nothing to play for.  Now there is nothing to play for, they're going to see how he looks.  Hopefully he looks good.  

 

It would be nice to have one of the three QBs on the roster look good this year...

[Voice_of_Reason]

26 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Everything being equal, I prefer the draft.

I've stopped caring about the draft vs. trade vs. free agency. 

 

For every Allen and Mahomes, there are 4 Wentzs, Trubisky's and Darnolds.  It's almost impossible to predict who's going to be good and who isn't.  Even first pick QBs have basically sucked since Peyton Manning through Joe Burrow, with a brief time when Cam didn't suck.  But in hindsight, that was like 4 years.  I guess Luck didn't suck either, but he was out of the league in 6 years.  

 

I think you just have to keep throwing darts at the wall until one sticks.  They threw a dart with Wentz.  It failed.  Ok, fine.  Move on.  Maybe Howell is the guy.  I'm not betting on it.  Draft somebody as well.  Sign a FA.  Trade for a veteran.  Do all of them.

 

Just make damn sure Taylor Heinicke is not part of the mix or else he will end up playing and we will end up 7-10 again.  

 

I'd prefer they take another shot or two and it flame out spectacularly or succeed spectacularly. 

[Captain Wiggles]

4 hours ago, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

Feel free to add to the list...

 

That list is depressing. 

 

How about a shorter even sadder list? In 90 years how many "franchise quarterbacks" has this franchise had? Three maybe? Baugh, Theismann, and Jurgensen? 

 

One of those guys played 80 years ago. 🤣

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

31 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I've stopped caring about the draft vs. trade vs. free agency. 

 

For every Allen and Mahomes, there are 4 Wentzs, Trubisky's and Darnolds.  It's almost impossible to predict who's going to be good and who isn't.  Even first pick QBs have basically sucked since Peyton Manning through Joe Burrow, with a brief time when Cam didn't suck.  But in hindsight, that was like 4 years.  I guess Luck didn't suck either, but he was out of the league in 6 years.  

 

I think you just have to keep throwing darts at the wall until one sticks.  They threw a dart with Wentz.  It failed.  Ok, fine.  Move on.  Maybe Howell is the guy.  I'm not betting on it.  Draft somebody as well.  Sign a FA.  Trade for a veteran.  Do all of them.

 

Just make damn sure Taylor Heinicke is not part of the mix or else he will end up playing and we will end up 7-10 again.  

 

I'd prefer they take another shot or two and it flame out spectacularly or succeed spectacularly. 

 

That's pretty much what I've been saying.

 

I am not stuck on a theory.    Try everything.  I wish I can find the old article about the Eagles when they were in QB purgatory and Roseman articulated their approach which was keep trying and try everything until you hit.  

 

The idea of lets try the draft for a change while sounds like a noble cause doesn't really fit reality.  In our QB wilderness, we've done it all and plenty of times. We've done the draft, we've done trades, we've done FA.  It's not about lets try this for a change, its about getting the right dude.  

 

Lets focus on the draft post SB.

 

Chris Hakel (4th)

Heath Shuler (1st)

Gus Ferrotte (7th)

Todd Husak (6th)

Sage Rosenfels (4)

Colt Brennan (7th)

RG 3 (1)

Patrick Ramsey (1)

Jason Campbell (1)

Gibran Hamden (7)

Jordan Palmer (6)

Nate Sudeld (6)

Sam Howell (5)

Colt Brennan (6)

Dwayne Haskins (1)

Kirk Cousins (4)

 

Five #1 picks at QB.  Three of those 5 #1 picks they traded up to get.   We've tried plenty of mid to late rounders, too.

 

I am not saying this should stop us from drafting another.  For me its always about who?  I don't think just because Jason Campbell was a bust, that means the next first rounder will be the same level of bust -- on the same token I don't believe just because Wentz sucked it means the next veteran we pursue will suck. 

 

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[MrJL]

5 hours ago, gbear said:

um, no.

Gannon went on to win league MVP.

Trent Green is on the Chief's ring of honor.

I think a case can be made for Brad Johnson too.  He was a pretty darn good QB who lead the Bucs to Super Bowl glory long before Brady.

 

Our organization has a long history of throwing out gold with our trash.  

 

 

Gannon's MVP season was a decade after he was with the Skins

[skins island connection]

4 hours ago, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

When is the last time this team drafted a QB high who succeeded while he was still here? RG III may be the last one, and he flamed out in his second year.

 

Look at our past QB and where they came from:

 

Jurgensen - retread from Eagles

Kilmer - retread from Saints

Theismann - retread from CFL

Jay Schroeder - had some good games 86-87

Williams - retread from Buccaneers/USFL

Rypien - had two good years, then sucked

Shuler - OH PLEASE THAT'S FUNNY

Frerotte - had some good games 94-97 until he rammed his head into a wall

Green - retread from Chargers/CFL

Johnson - retread from Vikings

George - retread from Colts/Falcons

Banks - retread from Rams

Ramsey - never consistent

 

Feel free to add to the list...

 

 Wow, if the organization ever collapsed they could go into the used tire market; I would say they'd be great but most likely they'd keep the blow-outs and chunk the ones with 100 miles on them...

[mojo]

Rivera after Howell throws for a couple TD's and has a couple nice runs.

That wont happen but i hope it does just to magnify how clueless our staff is. What in the hell did they see in practice to decide to start Wentz again?  Turner doesn't adapt to players. We run 7 step drops when we have one of the worst pass protecting O lines in the league. Yes, Heinicke fumbled a lot but that happens when you're getting your head drove in the dirt.

Edited January 6, 2023 by mojo

[zCommander]

 

 

[FootballZombie]

Gotta keep taking hacks at the QB tree.

 

I get the idea about a lame duck coach not being allowed to mortgage the future RG3 trade style, but that does not mean you totally handcuff them and make them root around the discount QB bin.

 

Still gotta try and bring people in. Still have to be open to spending money.

 

If you can convince a Vet QB to come, you do it.

If a guy who you think has the goods drops to our natural draft pick, you can take 'em.

Just cant get off a bunch of high picks. and royally bone the next guy's ability to make moves.

[HogsVa7]

Rivera said that Howell wouldn't be judged fully on one game. He's not going to have Robinson or Gibson and he's working with a crap offensive line. We need Howell to show that he can be a starter for this team. I'm hoping he can ball out Sunday and I think he will. There will be some mistakes I'm sure. I don't see this team trading for a QB or drafting one. Why draft a QB when you don't know about Howell even after one game? They tried to trade for Quarterbacks but nobody wanted to come here. Rivera has one year left to show the new owner he's got it and Howell might be his only option. I think we should resign Heinicke as a backup with no threat of competing for a starting job. Heinicke is not a full starter but if Howell gets hurt and misses a game or two Heinicke will come in and win you games thats what you want for a backup to do. I think he will go and resign somewhere elsewhere imo. Take your chance with Howell and resign Payne and address the offensive line. If Howell doesn't work out we will get a top pick with a new owner and head coach and they can pick their QB. We save 28M with Wentz gone after this season. No way in hell Rivera is drafting a QB in the 1st round with basically one year left to prove himself. I will add too that the people wanting Carr he's not coming here. I believe he has a no trade clause in his contract and he won't come here. Someone posted the other day showing a screenshot of Carr wanting to go to a team with a owner and head coach having a great relationship. That's not here. We can't get Rodgers cause to my understanding the cap hit for the Packers trading him will take them back years to do anything. Slight chance with Brady. Idk if he will be a free agent or for trade. Selling the team and more likely a new coach after next year puts us into a tough position this off season of finding a QB. Revamp this oline with the cap money we will have and again sign Payne and hope Howell works out.

Edited January 6, 2023 by HogsVa7

[Zim489]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

Gotta keep taking hacks at the QB tree.

 

I get the idea about a lame duck coach not being allowed to mortgage the future RG3 trade style, but that does not mean you totally handcuff them and make them root around the discount QB bin.

 

Still gotta try and bring people in. Still have to be open to spending money.

 

If you can convince a Vet QB to come, you do it.

If a guy who you think has the goods drops to our natural draft pick, you can take 'em.

Just cant get off a bunch of high picks. and royally bone the next guy's ability to make moves.

Just rather not hire the next staff around the QB already here unless it’s Howell who looks great. 
 

I want as clean of a slate as possible for the next staff 

[Thinking Skins]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That's pretty much what I've been saying.

 

I am not stuck on a theory.    Try everything.  I wish I can find the old article about the Eagles when they were in QB purgatory and Roseman articulated their approach which was keep trying and try everything until you hit.  

 

The idea of lets try the draft for a change while sounds like a noble cause doesn't really fit reality.  In our QB wilderness, we've done it all and plenty of times. We've done the draft, we've done trades, we've done FA.  It's not about lets try this for a change, its about getting the right dude.  

 

Lets focus on the draft post SB.

 

Chris Hakel (4th)

Heath Shuler (1st)

Gus Ferrotte (7th)

Todd Husak (6th)

Sage Rosenfels (4)

Colt Brennan (7th)

RG 3 (1)

Patrick Ramsey (1)

Jason Campbell (1)

Gibran Hamden (7)

Jordan Palmer (6)

Nate Sudeld (6)

Sam Howell (5)

Colt Brennan (6)

Dwayne Haskins (1)

Kirk Cousins (4)

 

Five #1 picks at QB.  Three of those 5 #1 picks they traded up to get.   We've tried plenty of mid to late rounders, too.

 

I am not saying this should stop us from drafting another.  For me its always about who?  I don't think just because Jason Campbell was a bust, that means the next first rounder will be the same level of bust -- on the same token I don't believe just because Wentz sucked it means the next veteran we pursue will suck. 

 

 

The Eagles also got hella lucky. I mean they drafted McNabb and he was successful. That meant any other QB they drafted in that period was just there but not really competing with McNabb, kinda like their version of Heinicke. Then they suck for a few years and get Foles in 2012. Then when he bombs out they get Wentz. Then when he gets hurt they get Hurts. I don't even think they have good scouting on QBs but the guys they draft are just good. We drafted Ramsey (sucks), Campbell (meh), RG3 (hurt), Haskins (sucks) in the first round and just had way worse luck. 

 

If you were bringing up the Packers from the 90s I'd be more inclined to agree because its what i have been preaching for years - draft a QB to develop and if they become better than your starter you can trade one. But even that philosophy depends on you having a good QB and the guys you draft actually playing well. Neither of these things have been true for us. 

 

Its one of the reasons I think that 1) we're too focused on things that don't matter as much like arm strength over accuracy and mindset (mojo, leadership, whatever you want to call it) . I want a guy who can move the ball on slants and crossing routes all down the field. If they can throw it deep then great but if not we can start them until we get somebody better. But the problem I think is that historically we have had too many systems for a QB to get comfortable in that system. I want to just have a coach and OC here with no pressure to win 13 games for a few years. Let them finish their first contract and not fire them for a slump or breakdown at the end of the season. I'm all for competition at the player level but we have only one coach and as long as they're not incompetent I want them coaching 4 to 5 years every time. That Marty / Spurrier / GIbbs / Zorn / Shanahan stretch was burtal for me because we were replacing OCs so often. Shanahan got 4 years but was fired for how he handled Rg3. He could have developed Cousins same as Gruden, if not better cause he knew RG3 was done. 

[Thinking Skins]

8 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I've stopped caring about the draft vs. trade vs. free agency. 

 

For every Allen and Mahomes, there are 4 Wentzs, Trubisky's and Darnolds.  It's almost impossible to predict who's going to be good and who isn't.  Even first pick QBs have basically sucked since Peyton Manning through Joe Burrow, with a brief time when Cam didn't suck.  But in hindsight, that was like 4 years.  I guess Luck didn't suck either, but he was out of the league in 6 years.  

 

I think you just have to keep throwing darts at the wall until one sticks.  They threw a dart with Wentz.  It failed.  Ok, fine.  Move on.  Maybe Howell is the guy.  I'm not betting on it.  Draft somebody as well.  Sign a FA.  Trade for a veteran.  Do all of them.

 

Just make damn sure Taylor Heinicke is not part of the mix or else he will end up playing and we will end up 7-10 again.  

 

I'd prefer they take another shot or two and it flame out spectacularly or succeed spectacularly. 

I feel like people get too caught up in Big Names. I want Heinicke here until he's beat out. Look at the Eagles with Foles. He wasn't a number 1 and proved it but they kept him when they drafted Wentz cause he had shown that he could do enough to lead a team in tough times. Then when Wentz went down he wins a ring and MVP. I have no problem with keeping Heinicke and giving him a legit chance to start net year. I think competition will make Howell better. But even if we don't, Heinicke has shown that he can lead this team with little offseason starter work. 

 

What I don't want is another big trade (3rd rounders or more) for an alomst 30 year old QB who has been injured and has limited mobility (Jimmy G or Carr). There are a number of QBs becoming available who we could look at for a competition including the draft, but people are so caught up in the names that they would rather lose with a big name than win 7 with Heinicke. I want to just have a competitive QB room that isn't based on name recognition from 3 or 4 years ago. 

[stoshuaj]

Over/under on some numbskull referring to Howell as a bust or making a ridiculous comparison to a current or future HOF qb in the game day thread this weekend?

 

mid 2nd qtr is my guess

Edited January 6, 2023 by stoshuaj