The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[NoCalMike]

Heinicke threw for 150 yards against the Vikings pass defense. Was their pass rush good? Sure, but we are also told over and over how mobile Heinicke is and how much of an asset that is, but it seems like so far this season, his mobility has been more of an aberration than a normal tool he is using.   Is Howell ready to go out there and win games for the team? Who knows, probably not, but I think he could at least match the output we are seeing from Heinicke. 

[MrJL]

28 minutes ago, El Mexican said:

 

Why would you that man, now I can't unsee it!

 

Maybe.

 

But just a few days ago vs. Indy we got REALLY lucky when TH lofted that last minute ball ti McLaurin and he somehow made the catch at the 1.

That was a desperation pass if I ever saw one. Easy int. Terry, being the AAA player he is, actually snatched it from Indy's CB.

 

easy INTs aren't made backpedaling,  over your head

[wit33]

13 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Heinicke threw for 150 yards against the Vikings pass defense. Was their pass rush good? Sure, but we are also told over and over how mobile Heinicke is and how much of an asset that is, but it seems like so far this season, his mobility has been more of an aberration than a normal tool he is using.   Is Howell ready to go out there and win games for the team? Who knows, probably not, but I think he could at least match the output we are seeing from Heinicke. 

It’s come through at times, but agree it hasn’t lived up to the hype. 
 

I became done with him last year when he decided to play it safe. He somehow only ran for 30 yards over his last 6 games to close the season last year— ridiculous. 

[El Mexican]

20 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

easy INTs aren't made backpedaling,  over your head

 

C'mon man, it was 50/50 pass. We got very lucky.

[zCommander]

On 11/6/2022 at 6:01 PM, Jumbo said:

Dude, so many of your takes on qb stuff are like Bizzaro World meets the upside down.

 

Playing a "stats" card in arguing Jackson's not all that, as opposed to just being able to know what is right there to clearly see when you watch him play, should make everything you post on the qb topic discarded completely.

 

Though that's pretty much been accomplished already by everything you post on the topic.

 

😈😛😀

 

 

 

My Bizzaro World proved me more right than wrong while watching Lamar on full display on MNF against the Saints. Lamar missing a wide open WR who could have just walked in for an easy TD. Lamar is not a great passer as I have said before. There were other passes he was having trouble with as well. But his rushing stats looks really good though.

 

Player	CP/ATT	YDS	TD	INT
Lamar Jackson	12/22	133	1	0

RUSHING

Player	CAR	YDS	TD	AVG
Kenyan Drake	24	93	2	3.9
Lamar Jackson	11	82	0	7.5

I have no problem with you picking on me. It doesn't bother me at all no matter how extreme I tend to go in my world of thinking.

 

 

 

[BleedBNG]

Look to Heinicke's right around the 32 yardline. Don't know who it was but that was his first down instead of the INT.

 

https://www.theburgundyandgoldreport.com/post/time-to-get-sam-howell-ready-for-houston-washington-commanders?fbclid=IwAR2fKCw5ppm8g2zMhjFQcimHhGawagoD8055BEsRqqcQ2S11OyLxf3mIWeQ

[KDawg]

6 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

My Bizzaro World proved me more right than wrong while watching Lamar on full display on MNF against the Saints. Lamar missing a wide open WR who could have just walked in for an easy TD. Lamar is not a great passer as I have said before. There were other passes he was having trouble with as well. But his rushing stats looks really good though.

 

Player	CP/ATT	YDS	TD	INT
Lamar Jackson	12/22	133	1	0

RUSHING

Player	CAR	YDS	TD	AVG
Kenyan Drake	24	93	2	3.9
Lamar Jackson	11	82	0	7.5

I have no problem with you picking on me. It doesn't bother me at all no matter how extreme I tend to go in my world of thinking.

 

 

 

You know how I said you had takes that were based in reality in the game day thread? I lied. Your Lamar take stinks.

 

He’s not the best QB in the league but he’s one of the absolute best playmakers in the league, and having that in your QB spot is just as good as a franchise level passer. And he has every single one of the physical traits an elite passer needs, so he has moments of totally elite play in all facets of QB’ing.

Edited November 8, 2022 by KDawg

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

My Bizzaro World proved me more right than wrong while watching Lamar on full display on MNF against the Saints. Lamar missing a wide open WR who could have just walked in for an easy TD. Lamar is not a great passer as I have said before. There were other passes he was having trouble with as well. But his rushing stats looks really good though.

 

Player	CP/ATT	YDS	TD	INT
Lamar Jackson	12/22	133	1	0

RUSHING

Player	CAR	YDS	TD	AVG
Kenyan Drake	24	93	2	3.9
Lamar Jackson	11	82	0	7.5

I have no problem with you picking on me. It doesn't bother me at all no matter how extreme I tend to go in my world of thinking.

 

 

 

I don’t recall the argument being about whether Lamar is a “great passer” though.  He’s not your standard fare QB.

 

He’s an exciting, superstar playmaker unlike anything we’ve had, who almost on his own, gives his team a chance to win every week. 
 

Why you wouldn’t want that for your own team is beyond comprehension.  

[RandyHolt]

Am I crazy or does Scott never call any rollouts? We are more likely to see a Wentz QB sweep before rolling out Taylor.

 

It looks to me like Taylor is being told to be a pocket passer and not to run. Presumed so he doesn't get injured or it's not how they want the offense to be run. Just like last year. If true its not using him to his strengths and his top trait is then his knowledge of the playbook. We recently saw Fields is allowed to run and we know OCs often don't want QBs to run. But I think facing Philly when still trying to win and Carson about to come back its time to unleash his legs and surprise the Eagles.

 

I still think its a mistake to not stretch the field side to side in rolling pockets and stretch handoffs.  I guess Papa Norvous doesn't approve. With Taylor passing from the same spot every play its just too easy for defenders with our shaky OL and lame play calling.

Edited November 8, 2022 by RandyHolt

[Skinsinparadise]

Catching up with Logan's Paulsen's latest podcast, to summarize his takes it comes off that this defense is really really good and even better than some think.  And conversely this offense is really really bad and might be even worse than some think. 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

20 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Am I crazy or does Scott never call any rollouts? We are more likely to see a Wentz QB sweep before rolling out Taylor.

 

It looks to me like Taylor is being told to be a pocket passer and not to run. Presumed so he doesn't get injured or it's not how they want the offense to be run. Just like last year. If true its not using him to his strengths and his top trait is then his knowledge of the playbook. We recently saw Fields is allowed to run and we know OCs often don't want QBs to run. But I think facing Philly when still trying to win and Carson about to come back its time to unleash his legs and surprise the Eagles.

 

I still think its a mistake to not stretch the field side to side in rolling pockets and stretch handoffs.  I guess Papa Norvous doesn't approve. With Taylor passing from the same spot every play its just too easy for defenders.

You condense the field on a rollout, though, especially when your QB doesn’t have raw, natural throwing power.

[redskinss]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don’t recall the argument being about whether Lamar is a “great passer” though.  He’s not your standard fare QB.

 

He’s an exciting, superstar playmaker unlike anything we’ve had, who almost on his own, gives his team a chance to win every week. 
 

Why you wouldn’t want that for your own team is beyond comprehension.  

I would love to have the lamar jackson that plays for the ravens as our starter i just don't think thats what we'd get.

I think we'd pay him a massive contract and we'd misuse him and we'd be where the broncos are right now.

I know jackson and Wilson are totally different quarterbacks with a huge age gap, I'm not trying to compare the two, just the circumstances. 

It's a catch 22 but if the ravens are willing to let him walk that's a red flag, and it's a red flag we've ignored over and over and over.

I'm done with the quarterbacks other teams are willing to let walk, for me it's draft, draft draft until we get it right.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

16 minutes ago, redskinss said:

I would love to have the lamar jackson that plays for the ravens as our starter i just don't think thats what we'd get.

I think we'd pay him a massive contract and we'd misuse him and we'd be where the broncos are right now.

I know jackson and Wilson are totally different quarterbacks with a huge age gap, I'm not trying to compare the two, just the circumstances. 

It's a catch 22 but if the ravens are willing to let him walk that's a red flag, and it's a red flag we've ignored over and over and over.

I'm done with the quarterbacks other teams are willing to let walk, for me it's draft, draft draft until we get it right.

I’m talking under the guise of an entirely new ownership, FO, coaching staff, etc.

 

But with that said, what Ron and his staff were doing with Cam was innovative at the time.  

24 minutes ago, KDawg said:

You condense the field on a rollout, though, especially when your QB doesn’t have raw, natural throwing power.

Leads to throws in the run as well, which isn’t great either for Heinicke.

[Chump Bailey]

9 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

Heinicke threw for 150 yards against the Vikings pass defense. Was their pass rush good? Sure, but we are also told over and over how mobile Heinicke is and how much of an asset that is, but it seems like so far this season, his mobility has been more of an aberration than a normal tool he is using.   Is Howell ready to go out there and win games for the team? Who knows, probably not, but I think he could at least match the output we are seeing from Heinicke. 

 

I agree Howell, at a minimum, can match TH's output. My brief love-affair with TH ended long ago. I'll just leave it at that. I'm not an X's and O's guy by any means, but perhaps Frank Reich would be a good addition. Reich and Howell interests me. I know Ron won't do that to Scott Turner though. 

 

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/steve_smith_sr_has_interesting_take_on_wft_coordinator_scott_turner/s1_16457_36485669

One topic was the predictability of Washington offensive coordinator Scott Turner. Smith said Turner only knows one offense.

“But Scott Turner is a really good offensive coordinator for what he knows — he knows one scheme,” Smith told Brian Mitchell and JP Finlay. “And when you only know one scheme, that can get you in trouble, because you’re only gonna go back… you have too much film on you. You have film that, one, you can’t evolve; you have no new wrinkles that are shocking. And long term, you’re always gonna fall back and run the exact same stuff.”

“Scott Turner’s offense, Jason Garrett’s offense and a few others are all from one guy: [Norv] Turner,” he continued. “They all have been there, and they’re all running some type of version of it. And I hate to say it, all those guys are not damn successful in the last two years, are they?”

 

[zCommander]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

You know how I said you had takes that were based in reality in the game day thread? I lied. Your Lamar take stinks.

 

He’s not the best QB in the league but he’s one of the absolute best playmakers in the league, and having that in your QB spot is just as good as a franchise level passer. And he has every single one of the physical traits an elite passer needs, so he has moments of totally elite play in all facets of QB’ing.

 

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don’t recall the argument being about whether Lamar is a “great passer” though.  He’s not your standard fare QB.

 

He’s an exciting, superstar playmaker unlike anything we’ve had, who almost on his own, gives his team a chance to win every week. 
 

Why you wouldn’t want that for your own team is beyond comprehension.  

 

I was watching the Manning Cast and Eli also made a comment about how passing could help the offense. Looks like he also not a big fan of run first QB either. I still think he is overrated as a passer. 

 

As for playmaker. Yes. But he is not the complete package and not elite in passing at all. If he was then yes I would want him on my team. 

 

The conversation started when someone said they would like Lamar here next year. I said no and why. He would come with a very high tag price as well. I rather just try to get our own franchise QB instead and build the lines like I wanted us to do this year.

[RandyHolt]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

You condense the field on a rollout, though, especially when your QB doesn’t have raw, natural throwing power.

Pocket passing we exacerbate the pass pro weakness of the OL and ultimately a weak arm QB that needs to be able to step up to throw at max power.  Not to mention he is short and could see better passing lanes moving around a little bit.

 

Remember that Cousins roll right with options at 3 levels right in front of him? It was almost unstoppable. I call bunk that Taylor cannot run that type of play.

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Pocket passing we exacerbate the pass pro weakness of the OL and ultimately a weak arm QB that needs to be able to step up to throw at max power.  Not to mention he is short and could see better passing lanes moving around a little bit.

 

Remember that Cousins roll right with options at 3 levels right in front of him? It was almost unstoppable. I call bunk that Taylor cannot run that type of play.

I disagree. Pocket passing lets Heinicke break the pocket. That's where he is at his absolute best. Rollouts bring the defense to the rollout, especially with a weaker armed QB who isn't a threat to hit the backside over drag or a backside route. So now run lanes are cut off and Heinicke has to get some zip on the ball to get it into tight spaces. When he breaks the pocket in an umbrella protection, though, the routes aren't all going in the same direction as the QB, so now he is off platform, the D isn't running with him and the scramble drill allows the receivers to create enough space for Heinicke to get the ball in there. Take a look. He plays MUCH better when he breaks an umbrella pocket than he does on designed roll outs.

 

You can call bunk all you want. Cousins has the arm talent to fit the ball in on flood boot and potentially hit a backside over route. Heinicke doesn't.

Edited November 8, 2022 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]

Some of Bullock's take

 

 

[Ball Security]

11 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

My Bizzaro World proved me more right than wrong while watching Lamar on full display on MNF against the Saints. Lamar missing a wide open WR who could have just walked in for an easy TD. Lamar is not a great passer as I have said before. There were other passes he was having trouble with as well. But his rushing stats looks really good though.

 

Player	CP/ATT	YDS	TD	INT
Lamar Jackson	12/22	133	1	0

RUSHING

Player	CAR	YDS	TD	AVG
Kenyan Drake	24	93	2	3.9
Lamar Jackson	11	82	0	7.5

I have no problem with you picking on me. It doesn't bother me at all no matter how extreme I tend to go in my world of thinking.

 

 

 

You want to call out Jackson and gloat that he had a bad game (a double digit victory).  But he put up more points last night than Heinicke has in his past nine starts. 🤷‍♂️

[zCommander]

5 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

You want to call out Jackson and gloat that he had a bad game (a double digit victory).  But he put up more points last night than Heinicke has in his past nine starts. 🤷‍♂️

 

Going into the 4th qtr they had 17. Andy Dalton throws a pick at their own 20 yard line - well the ball was batted up and that was an INT. So yeah they scored more because of that. Context matters too. 

[Koolblue13]

Howell should be like Heini on steroids. Better wheels and much better arm. I hope we get to see him. I'm sure he'll make lots of dumb rookie mistakes, like Heinike does, but who cares. 

[Ball Security]

3 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Going into the 4th qtr they had 17. Andy Dalton throws a pick at their own 20 yard line - well the ball was batted up and that was an INT. So yeah they scored more because of that. Context matters too. 

But the Ravens punched it in, no?  Jackson didn’t slide at the one and then jump into stands to celebrate?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Regarding @Skinsinparadise post from Bullock…

 

Just for the record, we are starting to see what most of us said was going to happen and it’s only going to get worse on Monday night.

 

I say that not for a pat on the back, as I don’t think it takes any special talent to recognize that the walls were going to close in on Heinicke, week by week.

 

The only thing I can really commend Turner for is his willingness to plod with Taylor and keep games manageable, giving Taylor a chance to play backyard football at the end of a game.  To Taylor’s credit, even with luck on his side, he’s thrived in these scenarios.  I will say that I think this is what makes him a good backup for us, to have a guy that can come in and spot start and give the team a chance to steal a game, in an unconventional way.

 

Its just really hard to watch and not at all possible to beat a legitimate team this way.

 

* I must add an asterisk because I just know I’m going to get responses about last years Tampa game.  That is an outlier for a variety of reasons, pipe down.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Inigo Montoya]

Season is going to be lost, might as well see what the Rook has. He was known for running in college and being a tough guy, he can handle being behind this line. So what if he doesnt know the whole playbook? we're predictable and easy to defend any way. the high flying eagles are going to dick kick us, need someone who can at least threaten a deep ball. 

 

Unfortunately this staff is so damn stupid and stubborn its going to take a Heini injury to see Howell. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

10 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Season is going to be lost, might as well see what the Rook has. He was known for running in college and being a tough guy, he can handle being behind this line. So what if he doesnt know the whole playbook? we're predictable and easy to defend any way. the high flying eagles are going to dick kick us, need someone who can at least threaten a deep ball. 

 

Unfortunately this staff is so damn stupid and stubborn its going to take a Heini injury to see Howell. 

 

This is about where I am.  Howell has to be somewhat ready by this point.  He might not know the entire playbook but there has to be a package of plays that they can roll with to have him at the helm.  

 

To be clear, I'm not expecting much from Howell, either.  But if they're going to keep trotting Heinicke out there, there's no reason not to give Howell a shot.