The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[ColonialWBSkinsFan]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I liked Howell in that draft.  But not in a stand on the table "he's the one" kind of way.  @KDawg and @Koolblue13 and someone else i know am forgetting were bigger fans of him but I still liked him.  My thought is lets see what he's got.  I'd be surprised if he shows to be a definitive answer quickly but if he does it would save us from drafting a QB next year.  Because if they do end up with a top 5 pick, hard for me to see them going with an edge rusher like Anderson or DT like Carter considering we've not being able to build a winner by relying on the D line.  I think they go QB.   Young?  Levis?  Stroud?

 

Back to Howell.  He's a tough dude.  Hard worker.  Ambitious.  Smart -- one of the higher Wonderlic scores.  so I think he has it in him to surprise.  There is enough potential there to roll the dice IMO.

 

 

 

Agree with every bit of this... I'm a UNC alum, and watched literally every snap Howell played in his three years at Carolina... He's one of the toughest SOB's I've ever seen at the QB position (hell, any position really), and has the leadership intangibles that you want too.  If we lose Thursday night, I'd be all for pulling the plug on Carson and saving that 2nd round pick and seeing what we have with Howell.

[JCB]

Absolutely agree that it's time to think of Howell and not a Heinecke reboot. I mean, it'd be great if Wentz could turn it around. And I know that he's far from the only issue. But Howell has some moxie and dudes will play hard for him.

[TChaler70]

2 minutes ago, ColonialWBSkinsFan said:

 

Agree with every bit of this... I'm a UNC alum, and watched literally every snap Howell played in his three years at Carolina... He's one of the toughest SOB's I've ever seen at the QB position (hell, any position really), and has the leadership intangibles that you want too.  If we lose Thursday night, I'd be all for pulling the plug on Carson and saving that 2nd round pick and seeing what we have with Howell.

Not saying I disagree they are going to have to make the decision on saving the 2nd anyway because the playoffs are history. But can imagine being responsible for flushing 28mil down the toilet, Rons a good dude but not many people can say they have down that.

[FLSkinz83]

Was looking at the Wentz INT again....Does anyone think any of our LB's make that play?   Maybe that's why Wentz threw it...Probably always works in practice against our LB's.

[Jumbo]

Look, th's upside/positives gets very exaggerated here, and that is a relevant factor to bring up in terms of quality debate in  threads where qb stuff is under the microscope 

 

Let's recap some of the downsides to th BESIDES lack of arm strength. He made plenty of bad passes. He infamously hung out receivers to take big hits by somewhat errant placement. He too took unnecessary sacks and made other poor choices by not throwing the ball away at times, not scrambling when he could (his scramble choices were inconsistent) and missing open guys.

 

He had 20 tds and 15 ints in a system he knew and with better o line than we have now.

 

His overall resume  is relevant too, inc being plucked from sis's sofa because he knew Ron's system. He had a streaky year of semi-ok performances or even better for a real "underdog" in a covid-impacted season and more than a few of our wins during his streak have a lot of qualifications to them that do not lend to some clear cut support that he's even close to a "high end backup" though I think it's fair to say that for his actual ability level he over-performed even with these valid criticisms.

 

The real high end backups are the Terry Bridgewater's, taysom hills, geno smiths, Fitzpatrick's etc. If you think th is on their level you must be in the hive 🙂.

[Zim489]

26 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

Unless Howell absolutely kills it I can't see them not taking a Qb.

Well if Ron is still here is he going to hitch his wagon to a rookie QB in a do or die year? What QB can he trade a first for? Jimmy? 

[Redskins 2021]

 I think we are looking at a couple more weeks till Howell. Wentz can't play more then 70% of the plays for us to keep are 2nd round pick?

 

Probably after eagles game they will pull Wentz. Once Wentz is pulled that is it because of this I think Wentz gets a couple more weeks.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[ExoDus84]

40 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This is some of the dancing back from Ron.  the reporters who clearly like Ron (I don't blame them again I think Ron is a good person) tried to help him by leading him away from that answer by saying do you mean the other teams built a better team for their QB to succeed.

 

 

 

 

Mark sums up my thoughts perfectly:

 

 

[No Nonsense]

2 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Well if Ron is still here is he going to hitch his wagon to a rookie QB in a do or die year? What QB can he trade a first for? Jimmy? 

That’s why it’s very important that Ron isn’t the coach next year. If he comes back, he’s a lame duck, and the last thing we want is for a coach on his out controlling a high draft pick. 

[ColonialWBSkinsFan]

8 minutes ago, TChaler70 said:

Not saying I disagree they are going to have to make the decision on saving the 2nd anyway because the playoffs are history. But can imagine being responsible for flushing 28mil down the toilet, Rons a good dude but not many people can say they have down that.

 

It wasn't his $28 milliion dollars.  Belt Buckle Boy can afford it...  

[skinny21]

4 minutes ago, JCB said:

Absolutely agree that it's time to think of Howell and not a Heinecke reboot. I mean, it'd be great if Wentz could turn it around. And I know that he's far from the only issue. But Howell has some moxie and dudes will play hard for him.

FYI, I think the board decided “moxie” was no longer a thing.  
But yeah, at this point (I don’t necessarily mean this week), we have to see what Howell brings before we get to draft time, which is a kinda crazy spot to find ourselves in week 5….

And that’s not to say Wentz has been terrible - he’s been his uneven self (made to look much worse with a poor oline and new system) - though he is surprisingly unathletic.  

 

@JumboI don’t recall ever seeing you all hot and bothered about a topic before - you’re going all “get off my lawn!” in here. 😁

[Redskins 2021]

8 minutes ago, No Nonsense said:

That’s why it’s very important that Ron isn’t the coach next year. If he comes back, he’s a lame duck, and the last thing we want is for a coach on his out controlling a high draft pick. 

 If we bomb out Ron should go. But with Snyder problems do you think he pays Ron to leave and pays a new coach and Gm? 

 

 Unfortunately, if we don't totally bomb out win six or seven games he will probably bring Ron back.

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[Redwards]

What Ron just said in his presser is just asinine.  It's a prime example of a HC willingly making up complete BS in order to NOT take blame.  

 

Whatever modicum of talent Ron once had as a HC is completely gone.  And his complete unwillingness to take any real blame for the absolute cluster **** of a team he's put together is unforgivable.  

 

How anyone can actually believe in this guy as a head coach anymore, much less as an overseer of football operations, is just beyond me.  Ron in 2022 has turned into a complete joke professionally.  And now he's openly said what I knew he would from the get-go: he's going to keep Carson no matter what and "build a team around him" (even though that's the exact OPPOSITE of what he said he wanted to do with regard to the building a football team).  

 

Forget any QBs in the draft that could give us a real chance to compete for a title in the future, folks. Ron's hitching his wagon to Carson ****ing Wentz.  We'll just watch the QB prospect parade go by, and start all over in a few years when Ron's new plan inevitably fails.  

 

I literally cannot stand the site of Ron Rivera anymore. 

Edited October 10, 2022 by Redwards

[Carsonfanforlife]

Ron is absolutely wrong on his QB answer IMO. He should have said Oline, you win FB in the trenches and if you don't have solid oline or dline play you are not goin to win many games. I mean look at every good team right now and they are getting solid play in the trenches. Look at Mahomes when he doesn't have solid oline play he looks pretty mediocre as well.

[Captain James]

46 minutes ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

It's unbelievable really. Players have had much worse injuries than he had and still ended up regaining their speed, quickness, and agility, within a year or two. Just more of our bad luck. Smh.

I'm pretty sure our M.O. is having 1-legged QBs at this point: RG3, Alex, etc...

[Jumbo]

21 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

 

 

@JumboI don’t recall ever seeing you all hot and bothered about a topic before - you’re going all “get off my lawn!” in here. 😁

 

 

Not at all. First, don't confuse consistent and persistent with the dismissive and minimizing "hot and bothered" label you chose because of your own reactivity. 🙂

 

Over the years I have routinely addressed what I've been describing here as a form of dumbassery in posting that repeatedly, and over an extended period of time, lowers the level of discussion in any forum on es. I think you know this.

 

I just haven't been around that much this last year so maybe your recognition of what I'm doing is a little rusty. It's been a long time since I've had any real emotion attached to any football topic in the stadium.

 

But I still care about the site and because I was asked to be a mod by the old guard after only being here for a year because of how and what I posted, plus the fact that I am always me on purpose 😁, you still see me posting the same way from 14 years ago to now. Pretty consistent behavior.🙂 

 

To be sure, I have no hesitancy to play a "get off my lawn" role of the notion strikes me, but something like that would be more likely done in humor since I use a mad oldster photo of clint for just that effect sometimes. 😁

 

Here, I've been doing one of the supposed jobs of an es mod--stimulating  the conversation. But I only post stuff I actually believe in that process.

 

Don't hate me for my beauty. Or my statue.

[FLSkinz83]

My sense is that during film study, Scott is telling Ron that Wentz isn't playing well enough.   Ron has no real clue about QB play and thinks Scott knows what the hell he's talking about.

 

 

[NickyJ]

Ron throwing Wentz under the bus so quickly is shocking to me. Does he have to like how he's played? Of course not. But to plunge straight into the blame game and need the interviewers to guide him back from the ledge themselves is incredible.

 

Matt Rhule got fired after whiffing on 3 QBs in a row. Did he even take time in his pressers to throw any of the QBs under the bus?

 

Ron made me ambivalent after week 3. Throwing his own hand-picked QB, whose has a reputation for a fragile ego, under the bus by week 5 is the end of the line for me. Can him. Forget about JDR, make Scott the HC, and sail this ****er straight into the sun. Give this team a Viking funeral before it's even had the chance to announce its mascot.

Edited October 10, 2022 by NickyJ

[Zim489]

20 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

 If we bomb out Ron should go. But with Snyder problems do you think he pays Ron to leave and pays a new coach and Gm? 

 

 Unfortunately, if we don't totally bomb out win six or seven games he will probably bring Ron back.

 

 

i 100% agree with this. We have seen the peak. There’s no reason to continue forward. Cut bait now. I’d do it Friday morning. Rivera JDR Turner Hurney. All gone. Zampese HC/OC. Davis DC. Trade assets away for Pennys 

[method man]

34 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

Look, th's upside/positives gets very exaggerated here, and that is a relevant factor to bring up in terms of quality debate in  threads where qb stuff is under the microscope 

 

Let's recap some of the downsides to th BESIDES lack of arm strength. He made plenty of bad passes. He infamously hung out receivers to take big hits by somewhat errant placement. He too took unnecessary sacks and made other poor choices by not throwing the ball away at times, not scrambling when he could (his scramble choices were inconsistent) and missing open guys.

 

He had 20 tds and 15 ints in a system he knew and with better o line than we have now.

 

His overall resume  is relevant too, inc being plucked from sis's sofa because he knew Ron's system. He had a streaky year of semi-ok performances or even better for a real "underdog" in a covid-impacted season and more than a few of our wins during his streak have a lot of qualifications to them that do not lend to some clear cut support that he's even close to a "high end backup" though I think it's fair to say that for his actual ability level he over-performed even with these valid criticisms.

 

The real high end backups are the Terry Bridgewater's, taysom hills, geno smiths, Fitzpatrick's etc. If you think th is on their level you must be in the hive 🙂.

 

Heinicke is a bridge to nowhere but if you put him in there, he will go win you some games, which I don't want happening. The benefit of putting Howell in there is you see what you have (I think we see him struggle) but you also tank harder with him. 

[Zim489]

9 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

My sense is that during film study, Scott is telling Ron that Wentz isn't playing well enough.   Ron has no real clue about QB play and thinks Scott knows what the hell he's talking about.

 

 

Well Ron has shown a complete unwillingness to blame his coaches. 

[justice98]

I hadnt seen Ron's presser until just now.  Man, that was rougher than I was expecting.  He completely threw Wentz under the bus before trying to make the save, but it was too late.  You can almost see the wheels turning as he was thinking of how to clean it up.  Like "I probably shouldn't have said it like that."

[method man]

1 minute ago, Zim489 said:

 

i 100% agree with this. We have seen the peak. There’s no reason to continue forward. Cut bait now. I’d do it Friday morning. Rivera JDR Turner Hurney. All gone. Zampese HC/OC. Davis DC. Trade assets away for Pennys 

 

If this were to come about, you'd probably keep JDR as the interim HC so things don't fully fall apart

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

58 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

Ron is getting ready to use the Shanny playbook...."McNabb?  I never wanted that guy.  It was all Dan".     I fully expect at some point a "source" will reveal that Wentz was all Dan and Ron really wanted to draft a QB and use the cap space to build around the young QB.

You’ve desperately been trying to get out ahead of this.  🤣

 

Everything about the trade for McNabb smelled of Snyder.  I remember thinking at the time, damn - the Shanny’s don’t even pretend to be excited about this.  McNabb was just not the kind of QB that fits what they want to do, which is why it smelled when it happened.

 

What I find incredibly odd, is that you don’t believe the professionals with solid reputations and experience when they give their version of events for how things played out here.  Meanwhile, every single coach that leaves here has some version of events that took place, uncontested by a guy who contests everything in court.  Yet you still believe the coaches are lying, and Dan was innocent.  It’s so weird, your obsession with absolving Snyder, the lying former coaches, the media, on and on.  Meanwhile 23 years of failure and the one guy ahead of it all is staring your right in the face.  

[Zim489]

Just now, method man said:

 

If this were to come about, you'd probably keep JDR as the interim HC so things don't fully fall apart

Who cares? Its a complete loss season anyway.