The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, Wyvern said:

Setting aside what Washington gave up to acquire Wentz, I'm okay with trying him out him as the Commanders' QB in the 2022.  It's a bit of a Riverboat gamble, but I like the odds that Carson will pan out as a competent QB for what the team has been trying to do for the Rivera/Turner offense. I think we'll see more points generated on offense.

 

However, the team's wins loss record will depend on the performances of the offensive line to give Wentz time and a clean pocket, and also the defense to prevent opponents from cashing in on Washington's stalled drives and turnovers.

 

Wentz is the opposite of that "Captain Checkdown" syndrome we've been complaining about.  In the heat of the battle, Carson is looking for the bigger play, and sometimes it costs him.  So getting more time in the pocket will help him find that 'optimal' target.  (It will probably help if Turner occasionally dials up a pre-planned delayed check-down play, as defenses tend to perceive Wentz as always looking for the deep target, the longer the play runs.)

 

Also, It looks like Wentz plays better if the middle of his pocket holds up and lets him step up into the pocket using his 6'-5" to survey the field, or try breaking through the line to avoid the sack and get positive yards.  (That's why I'm worried about Roullier.)

 

Lastly, if the defense can step up and keep the pressure off of the offense to score bunches of points to keep up.... I think Wentz won't feel the urgency to carry everything on his back, when his number is dialed up.  I think he'll be able to restrain his 'I've got to make the big play" urges and let the RBs and short outlet passing do their thing.  

 

Wentz has the physical traits, the strength and talent, and the guts to be a great QB for this team.  The trick will be how to effectively harness his passion and create conditions where he can rely on not having to always have that big play, and instead opt for a patient approach.

 

I've paid attention to what criticism overlapped both friend and foe of his.  And it looks like its these 4 things.

 

A.  Take the checkdown more.  Waiting for the big plays that didn't open up while an easy checkdown existed have led to some negative plays

 

B.  I didn't realize until we acquired him that he had somewhat of a Kirk like reputation for not being hot in the clutch.  But I've seen that enough from friend and foe to at least be aware it could be an issue.

 

C.  Accuracy runs hot and cold.

 

D.  Aloof in the locker room, nice guy but he's not a rally the troops type.

 

Really every QB has flaws.    Wentz has been picked apart more than most.  The dude has a rocket.  He has great size. He has good mobility.  Seems like a nice guy.  IMO there is plenty to work with.   His personality doesn't bug me -- not every QB is a gregarious locker room leader.  I think he can fix his inconsistency by hitting more checkdown plays -- the types that Alex Smith and Heinicke ironically majored in.  I also like that he seems aware of the critcisms and he doesn't seem to be shrugging them off.

 

Chris Long, his old teammate and a friend said in an interview I listened to not long ago that Carson is a nice guy but he needs to be less stubborn, referencing that he should accept coaching more but he felt like he would do so at this spot.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[LD0506]

The defense will stipulate to Wentz having genuine questions about his play your honor. IMO this works to our advantage, ie. the whole underdog vibe/psychological advantage thing. Ignore the hype, ignore the press and rankings and ratings and settle TF down and play your game, the game these guys have played since they were young. Rattle some of the coaching to coach better, that to me is the area where you get the most bang for your buck, play to your strengths.

 

I find it amusing that we do this every year, every single season we bicker and prognosticate and conveniently forget that 98.2% of it was BS by October. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

Sims was one of the few liking the deal for this team.  Him, Kiper, Cosell, Bowen.  Yes I am keeping track to see whom in the media has to eat crow if they are wrong.

 

 

https://commanderswire.usatoday.com/2022/05/28/ranking-washington-qbs-carson-wentz-and-taylor-heinicke/?taid=62922771f662cd000186e1cd&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter

Where are NFL analysts ranking Washington Commanders quarterbacks Carson Wentz and Taylor Heinicke?

Pro Football Talk’s and former NFL quarterback Chris Simms this week began unveiling his Top 40 quarterbacks for this upcoming season.

When asked regarding Washington’s Heinicke not yet appearing on his list when Simms unveiled 40-36 (he unveils them in ascending order beginning at No. 40), Simms assertively declared Heinicke had not yet appeared and he was not going to appear either.

 

Heinicke certainly had his ups and downs last season. It is fine that Heinicke was not ranked by Simms in his top 40. Yet, Heinicke had better seasons than Geno Smith and Drew Lock. Yet they are ranked by Simms (see list below).

Where is Carson Wentz ranked? Well, thus far he has not yet been named by Simms. Consequently, this indicates Wentz is going to be ranked somewhere in the top 20, as Simms has thus far ranked NFL quarterbacks (40-21).

 

Here are his rankings at the half-way point:

40. Drew Lock

39. Kenny Pickett

38. Teddy Bridgewater

37. Gardner Minshew

36. Tyrod Taylor

35. Davis Mills

34. Tyler Huntley

33. Geno Smith

32. Sam Darnold

31. Trey Lance

30. Jared Goff

29. Tua Tagovailoa

28. Marcus Mariota

27. Mitchell Trubisky

26. Jameis Winston

25. Jalen Hurts

24. Trevor Lawrence

23. Justin Fields

22. Zach Wilson

21. Daniel Jones

[philibusters]

I am okay with Taylor Heincke not in the top 40.  I doubt he missed it by that much.   Bet Sims would have had him in the top 50.   Happy to see him giving Wentz some credit.   He gets so much undeserved hate.  I think some of it was how things ended in Philly, but still, the Wentz dislike is over the top.

[Vandelay_Industries]

15 hours ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, the negative narrative towards Wentz is nothing new, but this is absolutely ridiculous. 

[philibusters]

Using the Madden ranking system I might rank the 32 guys they ranked as follows to start the season:

 

1.  Mahomes 99

2.  Rodgers 96

3.   Allen 94

4.  Watson 93

5.  Herbert 92

6.  Wilson 92

7.  Brady 91

8.  Jackson 90

9.  Burrow 89

10.  Prescott 88

11.  Stafford 86

12.  Carr 85

12.  Tannehill 85

12.  Murray 85

15.  Cousins 83

16.  Ryan 79

17.  Wentz 78

18.  Mayfield 77

18.  Garopollo 77

19.  M. Jones 76

19.  Lawrence 76

19.  Goff 76

19.  Hurts 76 

19.  Winston 76

25.  Wilson  75

25.Tagovailoa 75

25.  D. Jones 75

28.  Pickett 74

29.  Fields 73

30.  Darnold  71

30.  Lance  71

32.  Willis 69

Edited May 28, 2022 by philibusters

[goskins10]

3 hours ago, Vandelay_Industries said:

 

Wow, the negative narrative towards Wentz is nothing new, but this is absolutely ridiculous. 

Agreed, it’s nuts.  10 to 20 is fair and probably closer to 20.   But 31.  That’s a joke.  I would have rooted for his success anyway.  But now I want him to absolutely light it up.  See all these clowns backtracking.  Lol.  

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Vandelay_Industries]

nevermind

Edited May 28, 2022 by Vandelay_Industries

[Destino]

The Wentz disrespect is wild.  All the lists I’m seeing have him magically way lower than anyone would have agreed with last season.  Over one bad game in an otherwise productive season?  It just doesn’t make any sense... unless the colts have been absolutely crushing him behind the scenes for months.  I hope he has a career year this season and publicly ****s on the colts.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

25 minutes ago, Destino said:

The Wentz disrespect is wild.  All the lists I’m seeing have him magically way lower than anyone would have agreed with last season.  Over one bad game in an otherwise productive season?  It just doesn’t make any sense... unless the colts have been absolutely crushing him behind the scenes for months.  I hope he has a career year this season and publicly ****s on the colts.  

They have been crushing him behind the scenes and in front of the scenes for months. 
 

As an aside, if the colts defense didn’t completely crap the bed at the end of the Raiders game, which was the second to last game of the season, the colts clinch a playoff appearance in that game.  
 

Wemtz led them on a 9 mini Ute drive to tie the game right at the 2 minute warning.

 

The defense let the Raiders go right down the field and kick a game winning FG.

 

If they win that game Wemtz is still the QB of the colts, because they clinch the playoffs in week 16. 

 

[MisterPinstripe]

The Colts defense gave up 30+ points to the Jags. Yeah that's Wentz fault. We are benefiting from some Irsay insanity. 

[FootballZombie]

20-22 is the sweet spot where most major outlets average out for him to be.

 

20-22 seems to be a fair spot for him to me.

[SkinsFTW]

I remember when Rypien was ranked as one of the worst QBs in Tecmo Super Bowl, then the Redskins won the Super Bowl that year.

 

(No this is not me expecting history to repeat itself, just a who really gives a ****)

[Redskins 2021]

 His problem last year were two things

 

1. Not having the covid shot and getting sick really got upset the owner. That is where the problem started. People can feel how they feel about it.

 

2. This is the important one was his play in the final 2 weeks. He did not play well the last two weeks of the season. They would have made the playoffs if they had won one of those games. It is not all on him but his last two weeks were bad. 

 

These two things are why he is not still Indy Qb. I think he will be fine here. He an average an average Qb with potential to be above average.  He probably a top 20. Could rank anywhere from 10 on a good year and 25 on a bad. I think he will get us to ten wins this year with a shot of making playoffs.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[skinzplay]

Part I: Colts owner has friends among national scribes. Favors beget favors, hence the absurd spread of negativity about Wentz.

 

Part II: Had we traded for Ryan and, say, Seattle for Wentz, the storylines would be completely different: Ryan is up and the Skins have reverted to their old ways of spending precious capital on players past their prime......

 

Wentz is gonna rock it this season. Bank on it.

[Darth Tater]

• Rogers (really just a pipe dream at best, anyway) was going to be nothing more than a 1-2 year rental and would have left us with no resources after he left.
• Watson's best year was also the teams worst during his time (OK, other issues but greats are supposed to be able to overcome them to some extent, aren't they?). In fact, looking at their downfall seemed to be as much due to a defensive downfall that started happening in 2018. Watson has clouds over him still and so does Snyder. We would have to give up so much in the deal that I didn't think he made sense. We weren't on his list anyway.
• Wilson was the only one of the top guys talked about that excited me.  Young enough that he could be expected to play at a high-level until we had the resources to move on. Still, would have been resource intensive and this was not his preferred location (and that's being nice).
• Garoppolo? A bridge that might have let us wait till next season at best. Bit injury question, and, at least in my opinion, was not a good fit for what we want to do. Claims he didn't want to go here anyway.
• Ryan? Bridge and doesn't fit.
• The FAs? All were big questions and bridges anyway.
• Wentz? Signed for multiple years going forward so he can do prove it for a year and we still have hope to extend him to a more team friendly deal if he does. The problem with most one year prove it deals is that if player proves it, there's little hope to get a good deal going forward so no matter what, you usually now have a hole. Looking at the QB market, resource-wise he was cheap if he works out (very cheap if he regresses to his career mean or better) and we lose very little if he doesn't.  If we don't have to extend him this off-season to be able to make deals with some one like Terry, he doesn't hit the cap if he is a fail. While he has choked at times, he has also done jaw dropping things more often, so there is NO good reason to be sure he will fail and very good reason to think he'll be at least as good as KC was (and Wentz will have a defense and running game that Kirk never had while here). With Howell, we may even have salvage value with Went even if we decide to move on.

[Dark Acre]

17 hours ago, MisterPinstripe said:

The Colts defense gave up 30+ points to the Jags. Yeah that's Wentz fault. We are benefiting from some Irsay insanity. 

Irsaynity!

[SkinsFTW]

One possibly good thing from him playing in Indy last year. He won vs the Cardinals and the media claimed it was an outstanding performance, then he got covid and played like crap the last 2 games.

 

A lot of other players were excused somewhat for bad play after covid. I haven't heard any of that with Wentz. Also, Irsay probably blames him for getting covid anyway since he wasn't vaccinated. Owners stepping in rarely finds great results so it would be nice to see it blow up in another owners face for once!

[Redskins 2021]

If you get rid of the last two weeks how bad was he? He was at least average if not better? How he do before he got covid? He played at least average? I am more worried about the defense then Wentz. All Wentz has to do is play average we should be able to get the ten wins.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[Warhead36]

21 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

If you get rid of the last two weeks how bad was he? He was at least average if not better? How he do before he got covid? He played at least average? I am more worried about the defense then Wentz. All Wentz has to do is play average we should be able to get the ten wins.

For a big chunk of the season he was playing like a top 10 QB. He had a really bad final two games and the Colts as a whole had a poor start to the season.

 

If we get middle of the season Wentz for most of this year we make the playoffs this year.

[SkinsFTW]

He also played the first few games last year with 2 busted up ankles and this year he should start out healthy. Would be the first QB since Cousins to make it through a season if he does.

[FootballZombie]

In the 12 game middle stretch from their first win to before the Raiders game, Wentz averaged around 211 yds/game and around 62% completion percentage, nearly identical to his full season totals of 209 a game and 62.4.