The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

9 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

3 of his last 4 were really bad, but 2 against the same team.  So is it that DCs figured out how to play him those last 4 games (except for the Philly DC for some reason), or is it that Dallas was a bad matchup for Heinicke (and the team) and he really missed McKissick and Thomas?  I have trouble thinking with more experience and far less adversity (especially a much easier schedule) 7 wins is his ceiling.  I mean, Trubisky is awful and he won 11.  I do think 7 wins would be more the norm for TH though

All the division games were bad, but Taylor had every reason to have himself a game against the Giants and instead played a lead role in one of the worst football games I’ve watched in at least a decade.  
 

It looked to me like every defense down the stretch was begging WFT to throw the ball.  They were playing man and forcing Heineke to make throws into windows he’s just not capable of hitting.  Not much zone which allows him a bit more leeway.  I would expect every defense he ever faces, should he ever make another start, to do the same thing.

16 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I like that this can be a one year deal (though I hate the draft picks given up if he is).  I like that we’re not paying him an insane amount.  I like what his deep ball accuracy/production could mean for Terry and hopefully Samuel/Brown/a rookie.  Should help our run game/short game too.

I really don’t like seeing the personality/coachability issues.  Don’t like that we’re going to struggle to add FAs.  Not a fan of what we had to give up as the Colts were set on getting rid of him.

I think this is probably the best the staff could do considering their goals - finding a competitive qb for this year and buying themselves some time to find their franchise guy.

This is a fair take.

 

The only thing I’ll say in defense of what they gave up, is I highly doubt they were bargaining against themselves.  I assume they were going up against an offer from Carolina at minimum.

 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

A couple examples of how a trade back could work and allow us to get impact players due to depth. 

[RWJ]

To be fair I'll post two different type posts on Wentz.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by RWJ

[BraveWarrior]

33 minutes ago, Conn said:

I think you severely overestimate Heinicke’s advantages here and severely underestimate how much our receivers would like to stop being thrown hospital balls. There is definitely value to Heinicke’s playbook knowledge and already being a part of this locker room. But players don’t ride social media all day reading rumors like we do, Wentz is going to come in with some hype because he has had some great seasons in his past (not just games), and the team is dying to win and have a QB who can make plays. They like Heinicke, yeah. But they want a real QB and I think they’ll give a chance to the guy who could be that, the guy who Rivera is outwardly telling them could be that. 

Many players are pretty active on social media, but even when they aren't, they do have friends, ex-teammates, former college teammates, etc throughout the league, and they all talk. Guaranteed, someone in the Washington locker room knows someone in Indy's locker room, and they are getting the inside info on what Wentz is like as a teammate. 

 

Heinicke has limitations in his game, but he is an energetic guy who competes as hard as anyone on the team. He's won the respect of just about everyone on the team. Wentz is coming in as a guy with red flags about his personality and work ethic. He's got his work cut out for him as far as becoming a team leader, and his reputation for not being a galvanizing presence will make that a challenge. 

[FootballZombie]

9 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The only thing I’ll say in defense of what they gave up, is I highly doubt they were bargaining against themselves.  I assume they were going up against an offer from Carolina at minimum.

 

Eh.

 

Carolina has no 2 or 3 this year

at worst we had to out bid a 4 and change.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, BraveWarrior said:

 

 

Wentz is coming in as a guy with red flags about his personality and work ethic. He's got his work cut out for him as far as becoming a team leader, and his reputation for not being a galvanizing presence will make that a challenge. 

where is the red flag about his work ethic coming from?

 

Keim’s podcast tonight got into Wentz’s reputation for better and worse. His work ethic was mentioned as a big time plus.

[RWJ]

This:  Wentz gets to face the team that drafted him 2x a year now, again.  I wonder if that lights a fire.  Probably does.  Maybe he'll prove me wrong.  I hope so.  Trying to come around on this one as I am thinking on this.  

[FLSkinz83]

I watched the extended highlights of the Colts/Jags game....

 

Terrible defensive performance

Numerous key dropped passes

Lousy pass protection

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[SoCalSkins]

I’m on the second episode of hard knocks. They portray Wentz really well so far.  He gets a ton of air time on the show. They dominated the Bills in Buffalo and Trubisky threw such a horrible pick. So glad we aren’t getting that dude. 

 

And Irsay has lost some of his mental capacity. Dude is so involved with that team. Ultimately he’s the reason we have Wentz.

Edited March 10, 2022 by SoCalSkins

[FlyBigBeard]

15 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

A couple examples of how a trade back could work and allow us to get impact players due to depth. 

Love the idea of trading back now , get picks this year and next..I have a man crush on Christian Watson and Leo Chenal, for 18 and 47 though, 18 may be high for Christian..but I don't care dude is going to be dominant. 

[BraveWarrior]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

where is the red flag about his work ethic coming from?

 

Keim’s podcast tonight got into Wentz’s reputation for better and worse. His work ethic was mentioned as a big time plus.

Someone posted earlier that there were some sources in Indy that mentioned it as being a problem. 

[Conn]

33 minutes ago, BraveWarrior said:

Many players are pretty active on social media, but even when they aren't, they do have friends, ex-teammates, former college teammates, etc throughout the league, and they all talk. Guaranteed, someone in the Washington locker room knows someone in Indy's locker room, and they are getting the inside info on what Wentz is like as a teammate. 

 

Heinicke has limitations in his game, but he is an energetic guy who competes as hard as anyone on the team. He's won the respect of just about everyone on the team. Wentz is coming in as a guy with red flags about his personality and work ethic. He's got his work cut out for him as far as becoming a team leader, and his reputation for not being a galvanizing presence will make that a challenge. 

I’m just sick of this narrative that assume’s the locker room’s deep feelings about Heinicke, it reeks of internet armchair sports psychology. The team had fun when Heinicke came out of nowhere and had some scrappy games. I’m sure they like him as a dude. I’m sure they respect his grit and tenacity. You don’t think they began to resent how much he limited the team from winning games? You don’t think watching the missed throws and missed reads (despite knowing the playbook so well which is another of his apparent intangibles) and poor decisions and hospital balls in slow-mo in film review for an entire season made them want a real QB?
 

This idea that because the team rallied around Heinicke for a few games and had some fun, and because Young pointed at his jersey that time, this idea that those things mean he’s some hero to the locker room that someone else has to work really hard to unseat as the Alpha QB is a joke. Sorry, it has to be said. Players want a chance to win games and make the playoffs. They want to earn big contracts from catching a ton of yards and TD’s on offense, and from getting lots of sacks and INTs playing with a lead on defense. They want to get endorsements from being recognizable studs on a good team. Heinicke doesn’t support any of that. They like him just fine, I’m sure. I’m also sure they’ve been dying for an upgrade and they don’t need a ton of nudging to get excited about someone who can throw a deep ball. I feel very confident that setting aside all the bull****, players in Washington are more excited than people on this board right now. That doesn’t mean Wentz is a stud or the savior or the franchise. Just that he gives other guys a chance to do better on a better team. For many of them he represents the possibility for a tangible improvement to their financial futures. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Conn

[86 Snyder]

4 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

I’m on the second episode of hard knocks. They portray Wentz really well so far.  He gets a ton of air time on the show. They dominated the Bills in Buffalo and Trubisky threw such a horrible pick. So glad we aren’t getting that dude. 

You mean the game where Taylor ran for 185 and scored 5 TDs while Wentz threw for 106 yards all day?  That one?  LOL

[Jericho]

7 hours ago, CTskin said:

 and Watson simply can’t be here because of the allegations (coupled with our ongoing investigation).

 

 

I've seen people repeat this line over and over about Watson. But why? Why can't Watson be here? What do people think will really happen if he came? The team will lose fans? Become a laughingstock? Get saddled with the worst owner in the league? Be irrelevant for 30+ years? Lose a lot? Oh wait, all of that already has happened. So really, why can't it happen with Watson? What really is going to change? Actually win games? Oh, the horror!

[SoCalSkins]

Just now, BraveWarrior said:

Someone posted earlier that there were some sources in Indy that mentioned it as being a problem. 

Every scene in hard knocks he’s always the first guy in the building. In the first episode they play a TNF game and he mentions he can’t go to bed until he watches the game tape even though he got home super late.  Dude is all about film study. 

[evmiii]

Carson Wentz went #2 for a reason.  Taylor H. was not drafted for a reason.  Taylor seems like a great guy that plays his butt off, but he is not physically close to Carson Wentz.  There’s definitely are a bunch of “ifs” with Carson but his upside is considerably higher than Taylor’s.  Who knows if is going to work, but the potential reward seems to be worth the risk.

[SoCalSkins]

1 minute ago, 86 Snyder said:

You mean the game where Taylor ran for 185 and scored 5 TDs while Wentz threw for 106 yards all day?  That one?  LOL

Yes. In the rain and wind. The same strategy Bellichick had there. 

[RWJ]

I'm starting to think I could be wrong.  

 

 

 

 

[HigSkin]

16 minutes ago, RWJ said:

This:  Wentz gets to face the team that drafted him 2x a year now, again.  I wonder if that lights a fire.  Probably does.  Maybe he'll prove me wrong.  I hope so.  Trying to come around on this one as I am thinking on this.  

 

Wentz is 16-9 against the NFCE and 4-4 against the Cowboys.  Does that help?  LOL

[zCommander]

5 minutes ago, Conn said:

I’m just sick of this narrative that assume’s the locker room’s deep feelings about Heinicke, it reeks of internet armchair sports psychology. The team had fun when Heinicke came out of nowhere and had some scrappy games. I’m sure they like him as a dude. I’m sure they respect his grit and tenacity. You don’t think they began to resent how much he limited the team from winning games? You don’t think watching the missed throws and missed reads (despite knowing the playbook so well which is another of his apparent intangibles) and poor decisions and hospital balls in slow-mo in film review for an entire season made them want a real QB?
 

This idea that because the team rallied around Heinicke for a few games and had some fun, and because Young pointed at his jersey that time, this idea that those things mean he’s some hero to the locker room that someone else has to work really hard to unseat as the Alpha QB is a joke. Sorry, it has to be said. Players want a chance to win games and make the playoffs. They want to earn big contracts from catching a ton of yards and TD’s on offense, and from getting lots of sacks and INTs playing with a lead on defense. They want to get endorsements from being recognizable studs on a good team. Heinicke doesn’t support any of that. They like him just fine, I’m sure. I’m also sure they’ve been dying for an upgrade and they don’t need a ton of nudging to get excited about someone who can throw a deep ball. I feel very confident that setting aside all the bull****, players in Washington are more excited than people on this board right now. That doesn’t mean Wentz is a stud or the savior or the franchise. Just that he gives other guys a chance to do better on a better team. 

 

You talk about armchair sports psychology only to insert your own sport psychology as to how the players really felt about his medicine balls and yada yada.... 

[CjSuAvE22]

5 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Wentz is an upgrade over Heinicke, but not by much. He's also a lot more expensive and a lot less likable(say what you will about  Heinicke but he at least had the support of the locker room). 

 

I think its very likely this is just a one year deal and next year we fire Rivera, cut Wentz, and are starting completely over from scratch again.

How can you say not by much? What has Heinicke shown to you that hes hardly worse than Carson Wentz? Wentz threw for 27 tds 7 ints last season Heinicke had 20 tds and 15 picks ....thats a significant upgrade in point to into production alone... 

[BraveWarrior]

3 minutes ago, Conn said:

I’m just sick of this narrative that assume’s the locker room’s deep feelings about Heinicke, it reeks of internet armchair sports psychology. The team had fun when Heinicke came out of nowhere and had some scrappy games. I’m sure they like him as a dude. I’m sure they respect his grit and tenacity. You don’t think they began to resent how much he limited the team from winning games? You don’t think watching the missed throws and missed reads (despite knowing the playbook so well which is another of his apparent intangibles) and poor decisions and hospital balls in slow-mo in film review for an entire season made them want a real QB?
 

This idea that because the team rallied around Heinicke for a few games and had some fun, and because Young pointed at his jersey that time, this idea that those things mean he’s some hero to the locker room that someone else has to work really hard to unseat as the Alpha QB is a joke. Sorry, it has to be said. Players want a chance to win games and make the playoffs. They want to earn big contracts from catching a ton of yards and TD’s on offense, and from getting lots of sacks and INTs playing with a lead on defense. They want to get endorsements from being recognizable studs on a good team. Heinicke doesn’t support any of that. They like him just fine, I’m sure. I’m also sure they’ve been dying for an upgrade and they don’t need a ton of nudging to get excited about someone who can throw a deep ball. I feel very confident that setting aside all the bull****, players in Washington are more excited than people on this board right now. That doesn’t mean Wentz is a stud or the savior or the franchise. Just that he gives other guys a chance to do better on a better team. 

I never made an argument for TH to remain the starter. Just saying that the thing players really liked about him is something that may concern them about Wentz, based on some things that have been said by people who knew him in Philly and Indy. From a talent standpoint, he's of course an upgrade over TH. It will be a complete failure and embarrassment if he doesn't put up much better numbers than TH. It's all speculation at this point, as the trade isn't even complete yet.  

[Jericho]

7 hours ago, mhd24 said:

Hate the value we gave up on the trade.  Well, it looks like no qb for sure in the first.  I wonder where we go now?  

 

Nowhere? The team has 5 picks total in the draft, none in the 3rd or 5th round. No real cap space anymore. Am I to believe the team is going to burn one of these picks on a QB who won't play in 2022? Just going to ignore every other position?

[RWJ]

9 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

Wentz is 16-9 against the NFCE and 4-4 against the Cowboys.  Does that help?  LOL

Yikes!  Uh OH!  LOL