The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[RWJ]

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for the Ridder love on this thread by some.  I got mixed feelings about it.  I feel like Ridder was one of my guys in a big way, I was talking about him early during the 2020 season before it became cool so to speak.  It feels like he's been co-opted by others from me.    Having said that, I am ok with not being heavy linked as a Ridder guy anymore.

 

It's not that I am down on Ridder.  It's just that he seems such a wildcard to me.  

 

He's such a weird QB in some ways where he is hard to get a beat on.  As I said months earlier, he's like a tale of two different dudes depending on the game you watch, even sometimes during the same game.

 

If I had to pick on patterns for his wild inconsistency

 

A.  Throws much better to the right than the left.

 

B.  His accuracy seems pinpoint when his receivers are wide open, including the deep ball.  But in tight windows, his accuracy isn't nearly the same

 

He reminds me a little of what i said about Heinicke and Fitzpatrick from watching them in camp.  I found it ironic that Logan Paulsen cited how Ridder reminds him of Heinicke -- I know what he means.  What I said about Heinicke and Fitz (Heinicke with the bigger problem on this front) is in camp you watch them be on fire for a spell and then all of a sudden their accuracy disappears where it looks like any one of us can throw a more accurate ball.  It's weird.  But Ridder seems to have spells like that too which come out of nowhere.

 

What I like about him is his personallity.  Determination to improve.  I like his mobility.  I like his arm strength more than most do.  I always think he's a good QB when everything around him is perfect -- great protection and his receivers are streaking down the field wide open. 

 

What i don't like about him is among all these 6 QBs he gives me the most red flags of two things that have contributed to some ballyhooed college QBs becoming busts in the NFL -- inconsistent accuracy and shake your head at times decision making.

 

So I've gone from being a Ridder guy in 2020, I didn't love him then but liked him as a 2nd round type QB -- to now being kind of mixed about him and some others seem more enthused about him.  My feelings about him as I've said before remind me about my feelings about Drew Lock before that draft.  I was back and forth on Drew Lock but my conclusion was typically -- I can see some attributes that would make him a successful QB -- and conversely I can see how he'd be a bust, too.  Like Drew Lock, Ridder is wildly inconsistent where you got to project that the consistency comes.  It never came for Lock. 

 

i don't know about Ridder on that front.  If I went to Vegas i wouldn't put any money on him succeeeding or would I bet on him failing.  He's the QB of this group I am totally straddilng the fence.

 

I won't though straddle the fence on this point which is I'd feel much more comfortable taking Corral, Willis, Howell or Pickett over Ridder.  As for Strong, I waffle about him versus Ridder.  I lean Strong but its close.  Now if Ridder runs a 4.4, that will certainly move me off the fence to being more positive,

 

Like my point with Trubisky I can deal with inconsistent QB play if they can run well.   It's not my top desire.  I like QBs who can play well from the pocket.  But I elevate a dude like Ridder if he has elite speed over maybe a more sound passer but isn't anything special like a Dalton. 

 

 

I got on the Ridder train about 2 to 2 1/2 weeks ago when I started to read and watch film on him.  He's a long strider which is ok. I think he posts a 4.4 at the Combine but even a 4.5 is fine for me.  The more I watch and read the more impressed I am with him.   I think we will hear more of his name as we get closer to the draft, and he starts moving up draft boards from the early 2nd/late 1st to mid to possibly top 10.  Just my input and hunch.  

[Inigo Montoya]

Curtis Samuel is by all accounts a #2 receiver, his injury was a classic Washington misplay but saying he isn’t is silly. 
our D should be special, our O Line is fine without Scherff 

I imagine we draft a RB, we have Mckissic. This team won 7 games with a tough schedule, terrible injuries and a backup QB. We are a great spot for a franchise QB

 

Minus- the  team does have a forever toxic cloud 

[RWJ]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Keim has said efforts, yes, but doubt Seattle budges

 

 

 

Wilson is my first choice as our QB.  But I agree with you, SIP.  Wilson, Rodgers, Carr will all stay put and the Watson case doesn't get resolved in time for us to trade for him let alone any other teams.  So I think best available FA QB and draft one at #11.

[88Comrade2000]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Will see.  The reason for the pessimissm from me.  Is the common refrain I keep hearing is:

 

A.  Seahawks really really really really don't want to trade him

B.  They'd only trade him if Wilson insists on a trade

C.  Wilson hasn't insisted on a trade yet

D.  Like the Packers are doing with Rodgers, Seattle is supposedly kissing up to Wilson in every way possible

Neither player is leaving. 
 

If the Packers can get a redone deal at the $50 million/ year ; it’s a win. Russ isn’t going anywhere this year and will only ask to leave; if he has another down year.

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, ColonialWBSkinsFan said:

 

Heinicke is the built-in backup, haven't you been paying attention over the 362 pages of this thread?   🤣

Yeah, TH, Allen and Gilbert 🤮

[Koolblue13]

45 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for the Ridder love on this thread by some.  I got mixed feelings about it.  I feel like Ridder was one of my guys in a big way, I was talking about him early during the 2020 season before it became cool so to speak.  It feels like he's been co-opted by others from me.    Having said that, I am ok with not being heavy linked as a Ridder guy anymore.

 

It's not that I am down on Ridder.  It's just that he seems such a wildcard to me.  

 

He's such a weird QB in some ways where he is hard to get a beat on.  As I said months earlier, he's like a tale of two different dudes depending on the game you watch, even sometimes during the same game.

 

If I had to pick on patterns for his wild inconsistency

 

A.  Throws much better to the right than the left.

 

B.  His accuracy seems pinpoint when his receivers are wide open, including the deep ball.  But in tight windows, his accuracy isn't nearly the same

 

He reminds me a little of what i said about Heinicke and Fitzpatrick from watching them in camp.  I found it ironic that Logan Paulsen cited how Ridder reminds him of Heinicke -- I know what he means.  What I said about Heinicke and Fitz (Heinicke with the bigger problem on this front) is in camp you watch them be on fire for a spell and then all of a sudden their accuracy disappears where it looks like any one of us can throw a more accurate ball.  It's weird.  But Ridder seems to have spells like that too which come out of nowhere.

 

What I like about him is his personallity.  Determination to improve.  I like his mobility.  I like his arm strength more than most do.  I always think he's a good QB when everything around him is perfect -- great protection and his receivers are streaking down the field wide open. 

 

What i don't like about him is among all these 6 QBs he gives me the most red flags of two things that have contributed to some ballyhooed college QBs becoming busts in the NFL -- inconsistent accuracy and shake your head at times decision making.

 

So I've gone from being a Ridder guy in 2020, I didn't love him then but liked him as a 2nd round type QB -- to now being kind of mixed about him and some others seem more enthused about him.  My feelings about him as I've said before remind me about my feelings about Drew Lock before that draft.  I was back and forth on Drew Lock but my conclusion was typically -- I can see some attributes that would make him a successful QB -- and conversely I can see how he'd be a bust, too.  Like Drew Lock, Ridder is wildly inconsistent where you got to project that the consistency comes.  It never came for Lock. 

 

i don't know about Ridder on that front.  If I went to Vegas i wouldn't put any money on him succeeeding or would I bet on him failing.  He's the QB of this group I am totally straddilng the fence.

 

I won't though straddle the fence on this point which is I'd feel much more comfortable taking Corral, Willis, Howell or Pickett over Ridder.  As for Strong, I waffle about him versus Ridder.  I lean Strong but its close.  Now if Ridder runs a 4.4, that will certainly move me off the fence to being more positive,

 

Like my point with Trubisky I can deal with inconsistent QB play if they can run well.   It's not my top desire.  I like QBs who can play well from the pocket.  But I elevate a dude like Ridder if he has elite speed over maybe a more sound passer but isn't anything special like a Dalton. 

 

 

I feel like there are major knocks on every one of these QBs, but Ridder has the head to fix it. No amount of work is going to fix not being physically gifted (height, weight, ridiculously small baby hands, glass knees), so on that front alone I like that gamble most. 

 

Hes a winner, who lives, breathes, eats football, put his team on his back and led them to unprecedented winning and constantly improved doing it.

[88Comrade2000]

Actually why would Wilson leave.

 

The Seahawks have always been competitive in the nfc west except last year when got hurt. Russ won’t admit but his injury probably affected him the entire year.

 

Arizona looks to implode this year after their late season swoon and then being exposed in the playoffs.

 

San Fran, if they go with Lance; won’t be winning much Lance’s first year as a starter.

 

So, really only the Rams.

[KDawg]

We still think we’re getting Wilson?

 

I mean it’s technically possible. But this is all just delaying the realization and mental preparation that Trubisky will be our QB. 
 

That’s if he doesn’t turn us down too, though

[mistertim]

51 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I wouldn't classify our weapons as great. We have no legitimate #2 WR option. Our best RB is more of a hybrid RB/WR type. Our top TE is over 30 and coming off an ACL. And while our OL was highly rated, its also likely to lose its best player and team's only All Pro. 

 

There are quite a few teams that need a QB that I'd say have much better supporting casts. And that isn't even factoring in the toxic cloud that hangs over this franchise.

 

Scherff isn't our best OL player. That's probably either Chase Roullier or Charles Leno. Scherff had the 2nd worst PFF rating on our OL that took significant numbers of snaps

 

Leno - 81.2

Flowers - 72.0

Roullier - 83.7

Scherff - 73.6

Schweitzer - 78.7

Lucas - 75.2

 

And that's not an aberration of a grade for Scherff. He's only had one year above an 80 grade, and that was 2020. He's usually in the 70s, which is good but not great or elite.

 

We don't need him IMO. He seems like a good guy and is apparently a really good teammate, but beyond not ever really being elite outside of 1 year, he's on the wrong side of 30 and has gotten injured every single season since 2016.

 

Add to that the fact that he seemingly wants some ginormous contract and it's a pass for me. We reportedly tried to extend him and make him the highest paid Guard in the NFL before last season started but he wouldn't take it. I'm assuming he wanted more guaranteed money or something.

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, KDawg said:

We still think we’re getting Wilson?

 

I mean it’s technically possible. But this is all just delaying the realization and mental preparation that Trubisky will be our QB. 
 

That’s if he doesn’t turn us down too, though

 

Most of us here think it’s Wilson or Rodgers. Not sure though which one.

 

Have you heard something we haven’t?😀

[mistertim]

21 minutes ago, KDawg said:

We still think we’re getting Wilson?

 

I mean it’s technically possible. But this is all just delaying the realization and mental preparation that Trubisky will be our QB. 
 

That’s if he doesn’t turn us down too, though

 

This is exactly what I expected to happen as the offseasn progressed and why I was usually against people always talking about Rodgers, Wilson and Watson. I figured we would just start giving ourselves false hope and then a bunch of people would be totally bummed when none of it happened (and we probably found out that it was never even close).

 

I feel like we may be entering that phase at this point. So many people talking about us getting one of those guys, when the chances are still incredibly small. I'd love to have Rodgers or Wilson just as much as anyone, but there's almost no chance it's going to happen.

 

I agree that the most likely result will be what we figured it would be a while back...a blah FA signing and hopefully a rookie in the 1st. Though I suppose Jimmy G could still be a possibility.

[SonnySideUp]

Wow. This is interesting. According to SI, Odds makers now have Watson to Washington. 3 first rounders and maybe Chase Young gets it done. I don't know that I have much confidence in this prediction, but who knows? Ron has said that they are willing to go all in and pay a big price for a franchise QB but I have to believe that this wouldn't happen without them being pretty certain about his legal issues and playing status.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/washingtonfootball/news/washington-commanders-trade-deshaun-watson-houston-texans-odds-aaron-rodgers

 

>>According to DraftKings Sportsbook, the Washington Commanders (+300) and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers (+350) are the two odds favorites to land Watson in 2022.<<

Edited February 27, 2022 by SonnySideUp

[Darth Tater]

2 hours ago, RWJ said:

Wilson is my first choice as our QB.  But I agree with you, SIP.  Wilson, Rodgers, Carr will all stay put and the Watson case doesn't get resolved in time for us to trade for him let alone any other teams.  So I think best available FA QB and draft one at #11.

My biggest issue is that the only reason a nearly 71 year old Caroll would consider letting Wilson go is if he either knows Wilson is done or Wilson is going to pull a Watson.

[RWJ]

8 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

My biggest issue is that the only reason a nearly 71 year old Caroll would consider letting Wilson go is if he either knows Wilson is done or Wilson is going to pull a Watson.

Pull a Watson? You mean pull a Rodgers?

[Jericho]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I wouldn't classify our weapons as great. We have no legitimate #2 WR option. Our best RB is more of a hybrid RB/WR type. Our top TE is over 30 and coming off an ACL. And while our OL was highly rated, its also likely to lose its best player and team's only All Pro. 

 

There are quite a few teams that need a QB that I'd say have much better supporting casts. And that isn't even factoring in the toxic cloud that hangs over this franchise.

 

This is sadly true.

[Darth Tater]

13 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Pull a Watson? You mean pull a Rodgers?

No a Watson. Remember, Watson said he was not going to play for Houston again a month or two BEFORE the **** hit the fan and Houston even had a deal in place that could, at least in part, fix the damage Kelly did. There was even an early narrative, never gained traction irc, that the accusations were actually pushed by the organization, the NFL or the city. Further, Rodgers situation is more like Brady 2020 except that Rodgers is not a FA. Rodgers will be your guy for 1-2 years. Wilson probably has 5-7. 

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, Darth Tater said:

No a Watson. Remember, Watson said he was not going to play for Houston again a month or two BEFORE the **** hit the fan and Houston even had a deal in place that could, at least in part, fix the damage Kelly did. There was even an early narrative, never gained traction irc, that the accusations were actually pushed by the organization, the NFL or the city. Further, Rodgers situation is more like Brady 2020 except that Rodgers is not a FA. Rodgers will be your guy for 1-2 years. Wilson probably has 5-7. 

Oh ok.  I'd still take Wilson if contingencies were put into the new contract to protect us from whatever, we would HAVE to do with him before we traded for him, IMO.  

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, Darth Tater said:

My biggest issue is that the only reason a nearly 71 year old Caroll would consider letting Wilson go is if he either knows Wilson is done or Wilson is going to pull a Watson.

Totally agree

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I doubt it’s to him directly. It’s likely 2nd hand like to his agent 

It probably is second hand to his agent.

 

But he's also said it in front of every single live mike he can get himself in front of in the last 2 months.  I think he's issued that party line more than a Presidential Candidate giving stump speech 3 weeks before an election.  

 

If anybody doesn't know this pitch at this point, it's because they have moved to Tahiti and foregone the internet.  

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, Darth Tater said:

My biggest issue is that the only reason a nearly 71 year old Caroll would consider letting Wilson go is if he either knows Wilson is done or Wilson is going to pull a Watson.

I wouldn’t advise anyone to pull a Watson right now.....

[Burgold]

First of all, Washington can’t get Watson. They’re under the stink of sexual harassment allegations themselves and even Goodell seems pissed at them about it. 
 

2nd it’s clear Watson will never play again for his current team. Given that, the salary hit, and all the suits against him any team trying to trade for him at a premium or market value is stupid. You offer a basement offer and dare the team to keep him and pay him for nothing two years in a row. 
 

After all, any team that trades for Watson is doing Houston a huge favor. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I wouldn't classify our weapons as great. We have no legitimate #2 WR option. Our best RB is more of a hybrid RB/WR type. Our top TE is over 30 and coming off an ACL. And while our OL was highly rated, its also likely to lose its best player and team's only All Pro. 

 

There are quite a few teams that need a QB that I'd say have much better supporting casts. And that isn't even factoring in the toxic cloud that hangs over this franchise.

 

 

1. I'm going to just assume Samuel is not hurt all year again.  Maybe that's a bad assumption.  But I'm going to go out on a limb and say he's fully recovered, and can contribute. IF that is true, they have the following:

- A #1 WR in McLaurin

- 3 really versatile weapons who can play WR and RB, and all have been productive in Samuel/Gibson/McKissic (Assuming they re-sign McKissic, which I think they will do.) All three have had success.  Samuel's absence last year was absolutely crushing to what they wanted to do offensively.  Is there a legitimate #2?  Maybe not.  But I think there's absolutely more than enough talent to be very explosive and very good.  

- A guy who should develop in DBrown as a 4th or 5th option with good speed. Very few rookie WRs, especially those not in the first round develop immediately.  Brown was the victim of 2 injuries which really hurt him: Samuel and Fitzy.  If Samuel had been healthy, he probably would have had more limited playing time, but been targeted more as McLaurin and Samuel would have drawn coverage, allowing him to work 1:1 much more often.  And playing with a backup, should never be a starter QB, that wasn't exactly helpful either. 

- A reasonably good set of options at slot (if not played by Samuel/Gibson/McKissic) in Hump (if they re-sign him) or Milne.  

- A REALLY good blocking TE who has good hands, even if he is as slow as a slug stuck in molasses in John Bates. 

- I'm somewhat discounting Logan Thomas because I don't know when he'll be back, and how effective he will be.

 

But I think there IS a lot more talent there than you would think, especially if you assume Samuel will actually play this year.  

 

2. On the OL, they ranked overall 6th in the NFL per PFF. I mean, that's not gospel, but it means they don't completely suck.  And they did that while Scherff missed 5 or so games, they were down to their 4th center, 4th guard, 3rd tackle, all of whom will be back.  So not only are the starters tested, but they have really good, proven depth, even if Scherff leaves.  AND if they sign Russ, maybe instead of bringing in another piece, they re-sign Scherff because Russ wants the OL.  It really is a possibility.

 

3. I'm really tired of the "toxic cloud" stuff.  98% of that is not on the football side anymore.  We have no evidence Dan (or Her Royal Highness Queen Tonya) are even giving Ron pointers on the football side, they are so caught up trying to find lawyers to defend them.  Ron has a really, really god reputation in the league.  So does most of the coaching staff.  Players don't really care about the owner.  Will Blackmon, who played for the 'Skins, was on the Al Galdi podcast and was adamant players don't care about the owner.  

 

Dan's not going anywhere.  I wish he would just shut the **** up, and the Washington Post and the other media outlets, and congress would just keep their mouths shut, and life would be so much better.  Unless there was a way to force him out, which I just don't think there is.  Just give it a rest. 

[Est.1974]

9 minutes ago, Burgold said:

 

2nd it’s clear Watson will never play again for his current team. Given that, the salary hit, and all the suits against him any team trying to trade for him at a premium or market value is stupid. You offer a basement offer and dare the team to keep him and pay him for nothing two years in a row. 

Yeah Houston is currently on the hook for his 35mil fully guaranteed salary in 2022. In 3 weeks time, his 2023 money fully guarantees....another 37mil....

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Curtis Samuel is by all accounts a #2 receiver, his injury was a classic Washington misplay but saying he isn’t is silly. 

How is it a Washington misplay?  He wasn't hurt when he was signed, then he got hurt.  The only thing they probably could have done is been more upfront with how serious it was.  But he didn't have a long injury history coming into his signing.

 

I think this one was more just bad dumb luck. 

 

If they re-sign Scherff for top of the market money and he gets hurt for 6-8 games a year, THAT would be a classic Washington misplay.  

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Neither player is leaving. 
 

If the Packers can get a redone deal at the $50 million/ year ; it’s a win. Russ isn’t going anywhere this year and will only ask to leave; if he has another down year.

 

Probably so as just about everyone on this thread has said.  But I don't get the definitive/absolute statements that some every now and then make about this.  Even guys like Schefter aren't 100% sure.  It's very likely these guys don't get moved.  But I don't think any of us can declare it outright.  If we could we'd be on ESPN breaking the story. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Skinsinparadise