The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[rumplestilskin]

3 minutes ago, smooth said:

well jimmy G is the best option we take him! 

Get out of here Jimmy. Even our Ladies dont want you... Well mostly.

[Zim489]

48 minutes ago, GothSkinsFan said:

Unfortunately, the NFL made itself into a pass-heavy league but there aren't enough good QBs to go around.  It's one of the most difficult positions in the 4 major sports because to be good, athletic skill simply isn't enough.  A QB has to be able to master a passing offense.  Nobody else has so much on their plate.  It's like playing musical chairs with 1/3 less chairs than players.  But, to quote the great Jimmy Durante, those are the conditions that prevail.  The murkiness of the situation will become clearer after the Senior bowl, but I'd hate for this team to spend a lot of capital (players or picks) for a guy who nobody has confidence will even reach top half of the league.  If Corral, Pickett, Willis, Howell, etc., are destined for "below-average starter" status, it would stink to waste the #11 pick on one of them.  At least get a good player at 11 and then take a project in round 2.

Except project aren’t a thing any more. Dak was the last non first rounder since 2016 worth anything. Carr Russ dak kirk are the only non first rounders worth anything the last decade 

[Berggy9598]

Not lobbying for this, but if the desire is for a QB prospect of Burrow’s caliber, I think there’s at least a discussion to be had about Bryce Young and CJ Stroud. We have some tradable assets on the D-line next off season (assuming a trade up is necessary) and it would allow us to strengthen the roster with this year’s draft to add to some healthy cap room that would soften the blow of losing our 2024 first round pick. This means of course that we have to punt on the position this year. 

[Zim489]

Just now, Berggy9598 said:

Not lobbying for this, but if the desire is for a QB prospect of Burrow’s caliber, I think there’s at least a discussion to be had about Bryce Young and CJ Stroud. We have some tradable assets on the D-line next off season (assuming a trade up is necessary) and it would allow us to strengthen the roster with this year’s draft to add to some healthy cap room that would soften the blow of losing our 2024 first round pick. This means of course that we have to punt on the position this year. 

As long as it doesn’t mean we force the next staff to saddle the the previous staffs pick in 2024

[wit33]

1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

The NFC Championship game showed  that you don't *need* a Top 10 QB to get to the Superbowl, but that is still what you ultimately want. Stafford's would-be pick aside, you look at the kind of throws he was making versus Jimmy G and it was pretty apparent who is helped along by scheme design versus who just goes out there and has the ability to make plays.

Not saying this is what you’re saying… 
 

If you watch that game and feel one QB and the other was not as the reason why the Rams won, I’d have to disagree. 

[Jericho]

2 hours ago, Rogue Jedi said:

Jimmy G is not the answer for this team. Niners are loaded with talent across both sides and he still can’t get it done.

 

Even the 49ers know that. That's why they trade up for Lance. If a gu'ys existing team doesn't want him, it should be a huge red flag.

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Zim489 said:

Except project aren’t a thing any more. Dak was the last non first rounder since 2016 worth anything. Carr Russ dak kirk are the only non first rounders worth anything the last decade 

It’s going to be interesting to see what happens with Love, Lance, Hurts, and then less likely guys like Mills, Trask, etc.

 

To the mentions you’ve made of 2nd rounders, 11 picked in the past 10 years, and 0 studs.  On the other hand, you’ve got 3 mid-tier qbs (Carr, Dalton and Garoppolo), Hurts with some potential, Kaepernick, and some guys that bounced around and got some different starting opportunities (Osweiler and Geno Smith).  Jury’s still out on Trask (though I don’t expect much), and 3 duds (Kizer, Hackenberg and Lock, though Lock still has some time).

 

Not a bad hit rate if you’re looking for competency, but doesn’t look like the place to try to find an elite qb.

[Redskins 2021]

There some talk on the raiders board of possible interest in JimmyG. I can't see them getting rid of Carr. 

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[KDawg]

If we don’t get a vet we must get a rookie in round 1. 
 

If we don’t get a bridge, the rookie must start on day one.

 

If the rookie looks lost, has a poor work ethic and his teammates don’t believe in him at all and we stink… draft another first rounder next year.
 

If he shows promise, his teammates believe in him and he works his ass off, we’re good for at least next year no matter the record. Only caveat is a big name trade becomes available, then you consider your options. 

it’s that simple.
 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, Burgold said:

Actually, I could imagine a scenario where the Redskins brain trust convinced themselves that Burrow was a one year wonder who Mel Kiper projected as a sixth round pick just a year earlier and that Chase was Reggie White. They might have gone for the sure-thing superstar over the fluke.

 

We already know that's not true.  Rivera in an interview, in one of his Sheehan appearances, strongly suggested they'd have taken Burrow but explained why not Herbert and Tua.  Keim has said multiple times including recently they'd have taken Burrow, they loved him.  

8 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

The NFC Championship game showed  that you don't *need* a Top 10 QB to get to the Superbowl, but that is still what you ultimately want. Stafford's would-be pick aside, you look at the kind of throws he was making versus Jimmy G and it was pretty apparent who is helped along by scheme design versus who just goes out there and has the ability to make plays.

 

Kyle Shanny by some is considered the best play caller in the game.  His "scheme" IMO wasn't why Stafford outplayed Jimmy G IMO.  Stafford is distinctly the better player, its not really that close.  Among other things, Stafford has one of the top 5 strongest arms in the league, Jimmy G has one of the weakest.  

Edited January 31, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

I think the answer below is yes.  That's the vibe that I get from Rivera and beat guys.  Now do they land that guy?  Probably not.  But I think they are going to give one heck of try.

 

They loved Burrow but couldn't get him.  They tried for Stafford.  They tried for Fields as it recently come out.  They've been outbid or rejected. I think they realize that the buck stops this off season.  

 

The one answer I didn't like from Rivera when talking about the QBs in the 2020 draft was suggesting that while everyone knew Burrow was a stud, who saw Herbert as a sure fire stud or something to that effect?  I said so after that interview, dude, its you and your scouts job to scope out a QB, not just hey this guy is a can't miss, so its him or bust, we aren't sure about the other guys.  The Chiefs wanted Mahomes, he wasn't considered sure fire, where everyone knew he'd be great.  The Bills, with Josh Allen, etc.  Yeah its easier to pick the guys who seem obviously slam dunk but its your scouts job to say this dude might not be slam dunk but here's why he's the guy...

 

Maybe that guy doesn't exist in this draft, I am not sure.  But I hated his answer is this dude was sure fire, and who said that about Herbert?  The good news is apparently Hurney (according to Keim) thought Herbert was the dude.  But alas he was at Carolina then.  Keim hinted he's the dude who considers himself as having the chops to get the QB.  Will see. 

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Burgold]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

We already know that's not true.  Rivera in an interview, in one of his Sheehan appearances, strongly suggested they'd have taken Burrow but explained why not Herbert and Tua.  Keim has said multiple times including recently they'd have taken Burrow, they loved him.  

Perhaps. But that's also REALLY easy to say after the fact. I mean it's probably true. It's likely true. But I can imagine the defensive coach talking himself into falling in love with the defensive guy. It's sort of the same as I really don't believe that Mike Shannahan was absolutely opposed to drafting RGIII and got dragged into it by Snyder, kicking and screaming (which Mike has tried to imply a few times.)

 

Now, I tend to believe you, Kiem, and Rivera that if he had a choice between a number one QB and a world changing DE that he'd have gone with the QB. After all, while Haskins flashed a tiny bit at the end of the year and we had hopes that maybe he'd begun the process of realizing his potential, his first season was largely a bust. 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Perhaps. But that's also REALLY easy to say after the fact. I mean it's probably true. It's likely true. But I can imagine the defensive coach talking himself into falling in love with the defensive guy. It's sort of the same as I really don't believe that Mike Shannahan was absolutely opposed to drafting RGIII and got dragged into it by Snyder, kicking and screaming (which Mike has tried to imply a few times.)

 

 

I'd say for sure.  There would have to be a lot of lying for no reason.  Keim leaked it before the draft, saying the people he talked to there liked Chase, the only dude they'd take over him was Burrow but Cincy is taking Burrow.  He said the same after the draft multiple times.  Rivera himself revealed how much he liked Burrow. 

 

If Rivera wanted to make up stuff to make himself look good, I thnk he wouid have played up Herbert more and say they were torn about Chase over him.  But instead he implied their scouts didn't have Herbert on a pedestal the way they had Burrow. 

 

As I said at the time, I found that a bit damning thing to admit.  I get his scouts (obviously the Dolphins among others too) saw Burrow head over shoulders a slam dunk franchise QB.  But he flat out admitted they missed on Herbert.  I'd figure he'd at least tease that they strongly considered Herbert but instead he played up how he wasn't seen slam dunk the way Burrow was.

 

 

 

 

On another note, The Athletic

 

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

45 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Perhaps. But that's also REALLY easy to say after the fact. I mean it's probably true. It's likely true. But I can imagine the defensive coach talking himself into falling in love with the defensive guy. It's sort of the same as I really don't believe that Mike Shannahan was absolutely opposed to drafting RGIII and got dragged into it by Snyder, kicking and screaming (which Mike has tried to imply a few times.)

 

Now, I tend to believe you, Kiem, and Rivera that if he had a choice between a number one QB and a world changing DE that he'd have gone with the QB. After all, while Haskins flashed a tiny bit at the end of the year and we had hopes that maybe he'd begun the process of realizing his potential, his first season was largely a bust. 

I think taking Young at 1 would have been a fireable offense with Burrow on the board. Even if you’re unsure of him.

 

I was hoping Cincy did just that so we could take Burrow and not Young.

 

To recap my stance on Young: He wasn’t generational in his current skill set. Needed more work with his hands. But his ceiling was incredibly high. Strong motor, great player. Would have taken him at 2 (as we did) if Burrow was off the board. I would have considered Tu’a at 2 and even taken him if his hip wasn’t injured. Too risky with Chase Young there. Have to take Young even if he’s not generational as people thought he was. He had too much talent. EDIT TO ADD: I thought Isaiah Simmons was the best defensive player in the draft but not feasible to draft him at 2 based on his position and the value was much better for Young. 

 

But man… I was hoping Cincy did something stupid.

 

They didn’t. They’re in the Super Bowl.

Edited January 31, 2022 by KDawg

[Est.1974]

I hope the Bengals win it. What a turnaround. Got to love Burrow. They have also built a damn good roster.

 

So Ron, let’s see what you are going to do about this mess at QB.

Edited January 31, 2022 by UK SKINS FAN 74

[Chump Bailey]

8 hours ago, Berggy9598 said:

Not lobbying for this, but if the desire is for a QB prospect of Burrow’s caliber, I think there’s at least a discussion to be had about Bryce Young and CJ Stroud. We have some tradable assets on the D-line next off season (assuming a trade up is necessary) and it would allow us to strengthen the roster with this year’s draft to add to some healthy cap room that would soften the blow of losing our 2024 first round pick. This means of course that we have to punt on the position this year. 

 

I can't see anyone budging on a QB except in very rare cases. Teams will prioritize the position even more now considering the success of the Bengals and Rams. They already do, but it's going to be even harder now than ever before for any team needing a QB.  The stakes just went up and by a lot I think. 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

I can't see anyone budging on a QB except in very rare cases. Teams will prioritize the position even more now considering the success of the Bengals and Rams. They already do, but it's going to be even harder now than ever before for any team needing a QB.  The stakes just went up and by a lot I think. 

 

Ron has quite the challenge.  The concept that this is a QB league has ratched up to epic heights.  I recall there were some who argued as recent as last year that the spot is overrated.  Heck I recall that used to be Chris Russell's thing on the radio.  That narrative is dying.  Cincy, who is known as one of the most crappy run organzations with a crappy-cheap owner, going from 2-14 to a SB within two years is the kicker among a ton of other things.  The Rams are the top biggest bidder for Stafford and they are the team headed to the SB.

 

You got that backdrop along with almost a third of the NFL looking for a QB.  And to make it more interesting, we got Congressional hearings on the way talking about how this organization is a dumpster fire. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Ron has quite the challenge.  The concept that this is a QB league has ratched up to epic heights.  I recall there were some who argued as recent as last year that the spot is overrated.  Heck I recall that used to be Chris Russell's thing on the radio.  That narrative is dying.  Cincy, who is known as one of the most crappy run organzations with a crappy-cheap owner, going from 2-14 to a SB within two years is the kicker among a ton of other things.  The Rams are the top biggest bidder for Stafford and they are the team headed to the SB.

 

You got that backdrop along with almost a third of the NFL looking for a QB.  And to make it more interesting, we got Congressional hearings on the way talking about how this organization is a dumpster fire. 

 

I'm sticking to what I've thought for months now. Our only real path to a QB is a bridge and a first rounder.

 

There is a small chance we score on a big vet of course. There's always a chance. But it's small. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Good story in the WP about Burrow

 

....Burrow competed harder, studied longer, attempted to use force of will as he had done back home. He graduated early and rehabilitated his hand, but occasionally he read social media posts from Ohio State fans who said he wasn’t Buckeyes material. The program kept collecting talented athletes, and when Burrow called former coaches and teammates, they avoided the subject of Ohio State’s depth chart and the fact that Joe Burrow was but one star in the vast galaxy of college football.

 

...Urban Meyer, Ohio State’s coach at the time, announced a quarterback competition between Haskins and Burrow in 2018 that would culminate in the Buckeyes’ spring game. Burrow threw for 238 yards; Haskins passed for 120. Burrow completed 68 percent of his passes; Haskins completed less than half of his.

“I didn’t come here to sit on the bench for four years,” Burrow told reporters afterward, one last attempt at willing a career at Ohio State into existence.

 

The University of Cincinnati wanted him. So did LSU. Ed Orgeron, the Tigers’ coach, thought there was no way he could convince an Ohio man to come to Baton Rouge. But when Burrow visited, he said he wanted to try crawfish. Mike Anderson’s was out, so Orgeron called a friend and asked them to fire up the boiler and deliver a platter of bugs to the restaurant.

 

Burrow seemed unimpressed, Orgeron would remember, so at one point, he led Burrow to the parking lot. LSU had other quarterbacks, too, but none who could process information and reject limitations like Burrow.

“If I don’t get you, I’m not going to last here,” Orgeron says he told him. There would be a quarterback competition in the fall. Burrow would need to earn playing time, at least officially. “I know what we have on campus. I like the guys, but I know you’re better.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/01/29/joe-burrow-bengals-athens-ohio/

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I'm sticking to what I've thought for months now. Our only real path to a QB is a bridge and a first rounder.

 

There is a small chance we score on a big vet of course. There's always a chance. But it's small. 

 

that's the obvious tea leaves so probably so.  It should be interesting to see their level of desperation (whether what appears to be desperation is actually true) as to how much they offer.

 

But right now I'd guess Trubisky or Mariota and a dude they draft. 

[Going Commando]

The value of QB didn't change because of yesterday.  It's always been highly valued.  And what I saw yesterday was that Jimmy G just nearly took a loaded roster to the SB for a second time, a WR was the best player on the field for both teams in the NFC championship, and decisive plays in both conference championship games were made by defensive linemen at the end of regulation--Donald's pressure leading to the pick and Hubbard's sack fumble leading to the Chiefs having to settle for a field goal to force OT instead of scoring to win in regulation.  Mahomes is the best and most valuable QB of his generation and he had a bad game and his team lost to a less seasoned and less talented opponent.

 

The Bengals also aren't just Joe Burrow and some guys.  They are basically only weak on the OL.  They've got a stacked DL, a really good secondary, a really good linebacker in Wilson, and one of the best wr/rb groups in the league.  They are loaded with talent, they're just inexperienced and unheralded.  They didn't magically get good just by picking Burrow #1.  They hit a ton of home runs with day two and three picks and free agency signings and, this is important to a fast turnaround, they kept most of their extant good players during the regime change.  They got their leader in Burrow, but they built a good team around him too.

 

The reason we're still scuffling isn't just that we haven't found a QB, but also because we made a lot of bad moves and had two fairly weak drafts.  Bad FA decisions, horrible trades, and too many Antonio Gandy-Goldens and Dyami Browns in the draft instead of Tyler Boyds and Tee Higgins.

 

Getting a great QB or prospect will help, but we need to build a better roster too.  When is the last time we had a pro bowler come from outside of a first round pick?  When is the last time we had a draft class that produced more than one or two good players?  These are barriers to competitiveness that drafting a great QB won't solve.

[kingdaddy]

10 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

What I lament more than anything else is the Dolphins not converting that 2 point conversion when we faced them in the Tank Bowl in 2019. If t hey convert we lose and get the #1 pick and there is no way Rivera passes on Joey Burrow.

Wow....why did you have to put it this way? I never knew this.....how depressing.

[method man]

19 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

The value of QB didn't change because of yesterday.  It's always been highly valued.  And what I saw yesterday was that Jimmy G just nearly took a loaded roster to the SB for a second time, a WR was the best player on the field for both teams in the NFC championship, and decisive plays in both conference championship games were made by defensive linemen at the end of regulation--Donald's pressure leading to the pick and Hubbard's sack fumble leading to the Chiefs having to settle for a field goal to force OT instead of scoring to win in regulation.  Mahomes is the best and most valuable QB of his generation and he had a bad game and his team lost to a less seasoned and less talented opponent.

 

The Bengals also aren't just Joe Burrow and some guys.  They are basically only weak on the OL.  They've got a stacked DL, a really good secondary, a really good linebacker in Wilson, and one of the best wr/rb groups in the league.  They are loaded with talent, they're just inexperienced and unheralded.  They didn't magically get good just by picking Burrow #1.  They hit a ton of home runs with day two and three picks and free agency signings and, this is important to a fast turnaround, they kept most of their extant good players during the regime change.  They got their leader in Burrow, but they built a good team around him too.

 

The reason we're still scuffling isn't just that we haven't found a QB, but also because we made a lot of bad moves and had two fairly weak drafts.  Bad FA decisions, horrible trades, and too many Antonio Gandy-Goldens and Dyami Browns in the draft instead of Tyler Boyds and Tee Higgins.

 

Getting a great QB or prospect will help, but we need to build a better roster too.  When is the last time we had a pro bowler come from outside of a first round pick?  When is the last time we had a draft class that produced more than one or two good players?  These are barriers to competitiveness that drafting a great QB won't solve.

Their personnel department should get a ton of credit. 
 

A lot of their outside pickups were value gets - BJ Hill, Hendrickson, Apple etc

 

They also stuck to their guns taking Chase on draft day vs drafting Sewell, which the entire draft complex told them to do and that has obviously paid off big

[KDawg]

I don't think our roster is that bad. 

 

In fact, I think our roster is ready for the big time...

 

Biggest hole is QB. Second biggest is a high end receiver to pair with McLaurin.

 

MLB, FS are needs but with a great QB those needs get negated a bit.

 

We need a work horse RB to let us use Gibson in a more conducive role, but again, high end QB and receiver negate that need.

[method man]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don't think our roster is that bad. 

 

In fact, I think our roster is ready for the big time...

 

Biggest hole is QB. Second biggest is a high end receiver to pair with McLaurin.

 

MLB, FS are needs but with a great QB those needs get negated a bit.

 

We need a work horse RB to let us use Gibson in a more conducive role, but again, high end QB and receiver negate that need.

I agree we don’t have a lot of holes. The issue is that I feel we still lack the high end All Pro caliber talent other teams have. Allen is already one of the best in the league at his position and I think McLaurin, Curl, Cosmi, and Young can do the same but not sure who else

[KDawg]

Just now, method man said:

I agree we don’t have a lot of holes. The issue is that I feel we still lack the high end All Pro caliber talent other teams have. Allen is already one of the best in the league at his position and I think McLaurin, Curl, Cosmi, and Young can do the same but not sure who else

 

I think that's the perception due to our quarterback position. 

 

You look at a lot of teams and I'm not sure they have as much talent as we believe they do... but they have a QB.

 

The Bengals have Jamar Chase... but Burrow has elevated the talent they had in place. That's not to take credit away from guys like Mixon and Higgins. They are damned good players. But Burrow takes that team to a new level and allows them to be dangerous.

 

OBJ was horrible for Cleveland. He's been fantastic for the Rams... difference is QB.

 

I think our talent is what it is. 

 

It's not fantastic but its capable of being uplifted by a high end QB. Though I DO think we lack a high end weapon on offense to take pressure off McLaurin.