The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Zim489 said:

4 years is plenty of time though. Not sure you can sell the fan base on an extension after 4 if he doesnt win anything at all and doesnt look like your building anything. Especially so if the QB he waited 3 to 4 years to pick is not looking good. Ron will not coach year 5 on a lame duck contract. 

 

 

I think Sheehan said it well, they overkicked their coverage when they landed Rivera.  He's not the top HC in the league but he's respected and out of Dan's league to to speak.

 

If Dan dumps him we'd likey be back in Zorn territory. and much deeper in the abyss

 

He made the playoffs in year one.  Some downplay that but their losing streak that season was mostly about Haskins going 1-5.  in year 2, they were on pace for the playoffs until COVID-19 piled on to their injuries and they faced teams without COVID issues, it was the perfect storm.

 

Rivera IMO has done a decent job notwithstanding his gambles not working at QB thus far.  He inherited Haskins so that delayed him in year 1.  But I agree he should have done something last year.  He did try to trade for Stafford and it came out via Keim weeks back that they did try to trade for Fields.  So its not like he sat on his hands.

 

I hope they can pull off something this year.  But the QB gods might not be similing on him.  Will see.  If he swings hard and misses yeah I'l give him another shot at 2023.  

 

I'd feel much more negative towards Ron if he tried nothing in 2021 and then did hardly anything in 2022 but that's my feeling, to each their own.

 

[Redskins 2021]

I still think if we want JimmyG we can get him.

[dunfer]

We could get wentz for a small bag of drugs probably

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 minute ago, Redskins 2021 said:

I still think if we want JimmyG we can get him.

[RWJ]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think Sheehan said it well, they overkicked their coverage when they landed Rivera.  He's not the top HC in the league but he's respected and out of Dan's league to to speak.

 

If Dan dumps him we'd likey be back in Zorn territory. and much deeper in the abyss

 

He made the playoffs in year one.  Some downplay that but their losing streak that season was mostly about Haskins going 1-5.  in year 2, they were on pace for the playoffs until COVID-19 piled on to their injuries and they faced teams without COVID issues, it was the perfect storm.

 

Rivera IMO has done a decent job notwithstanding his gambles not working at QB thus far.  He inherited Haskins so that delayed him in year 1.  But I agree he should have done something last year.  He did try to trade for Stafford and it came out via Keim weeks back that they did try to trade for Fields.  So its not like he sat on his hands.

 

I hope they can pull off something this year.  But the QB gods might not be similing on him.  Will see.  If he swings hard and misses yeah I'l give him another shot at 2023.  

 

I'd feel much more negative towards Ron if he tried nothing in 2021 and then did hardly anything in 2022 but that's my feeling, to each their own.

 

All good but RR, IMO MUST get a proven QB this year.  Whatever it takes!  No time to waste, I think.  JMO though.    

[Burgundy Yoda]

Can't remember where I read it or who said it but someone said Matt Corral reminds them of RG3 and now I can't get the image out of my head. 

 

I still think we should draft a QB in round one instead of pay a veteran. 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Burgundy Yoda

[kingdaddy]

Hypothetical situation: When the Eagles drafted QB Randall Cunningham out of UNLV (1985, round 2, 37th overall) they already had an aging Ron Jaworski. During the season, head coach Buddy Ryan used Cunningham often on 3rd downs while using Jaworski on the early downs. How would we feel about drafting an unpolished, very athletic Malik Willis and mixing him in during his rookie season while TH or Kyle Allen played the early downs? I ask this for a couple of reasons: 1). I doubt Willis will be ready to play as the full time starter, 2). Heinicke can hold down the fort and is very cheap as a stopgap QB. We can pay other guys and still build the roster while Willis is growing.

In this scenario, Willis benefits from playing on a controlled basis and learns at a reasonable pace with packages based on his strengths. The team stays competitive until Willis is ready and takes over at whatever time that is. We have our rookie QB to build around. 

We could even sign a guy like Huntley and do the same thing. 

 

[moondog]

Jimmy G, Wentz, Trubisky etc are worthless to me. They bring nothing to the table more than just mediocrity. Jimmy G is a guy that, given his options, probably only continues his “winning ways” with Pittsburgh. He’s not a good option for us. 
 

This season was tough. Good in the sense that we answered the Heinicke question, sad in the sense that we probably woulda been in the playoffs because I think our ceiling was higher with Fitzpatrick. 
 

Completely disregarding character stuff or anything else, the only names that are potentially available out there that do anything positive for this franchise are Rodgers, Wilson and Watson. I no longer thing Carr is available. Maybe, just maybe I wouldn’t have a total smh moment with Mariota if, and only if, we also drafted a QB high to grow behind him. 
 

But I’m pretty tired of hearing Watson talk even ignoring his issues when it’s been talked about by people in the know that he won’t waive his no trade clause for us and doesn’t wanna be here. It’s shocking, really, not that he doesn’t wanna be here, but all his issues because he’s a guy that from Clemson and Houston always seemed like an extremely high character and non-entitled, hard working person. All this scandalous stuff just shocked me with regards to him.

[Anselmheifer]

30 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think Sheehan said it well, they overkicked their coverage when they landed Rivera.  He's not the top HC in the league but he's respected and out of Dan's league to to speak.

 

If Dan dumps him we'd likey be back in Zorn territory. and much deeper in the abyss

 

He made the playoffs in year one.  Some downplay that but their losing streak that season was mostly about Haskins going 1-5.  in year 2, they were on pace for the playoffs until COVID-19 piled on to their injuries and they faced teams without COVID issues, it was the perfect storm.

 

Rivera IMO has done a decent job notwithstanding his gambles not working at QB thus far.  He inherited Haskins so that delayed him in year 1.  But I agree he should have done something last year.  He did try to trade for Stafford and it came out via Keim weeks back that they did try to trade for Fields.  So its not like he sat on his hands.

 

I hope they can pull off something this year.  But the QB gods might not be similing on him.  Will see.  If he swings hard and misses yeah I'l give him another shot at 2023.  

 

I'd feel much more negative towards Ron if he tried nothing in 2021 and then did hardly anything in 2022 but that's my feeling, to each their own.

 

If Ron made the playoffs this year, he should have been coach of the year. Our QB1 missed the whole season. Our pass rushing duo missed most of the season. TE1. We almost made the playoffs. I like Taylor Heinicke, and he’s a great story, but he’s not a starting caliber QB. We had no real business even being mediocre this year. 
 

If Ron stinks up the joint because he can’t find a QB, then my move would be to force a GM upon him, not to fire him. 
 

Ron reminds me very much of Joe Gibbs as a leader of men, a believer in process, and a guy with character. I’m really rooting for him. 
 

He sounds confident about landing a QB and I hope he’s right. I think our roster is good enough to offer the moon for an elite guy at this point. And we have the cap space to fill in the gaps in FA.

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

If Ron made the playoffs this year, he should have been coach of the year. Our QB1 missed the whole season. Our pass rushing duo missed most of the season. TE1. We almost made the playoffs. I like Taylor Heinicke, and he’s a great story, but he’s not a starting caliber QB. We had no real business even being mediocre this year. 
 

If Ron stinks up the joint because he can’t find a QB, then my move would be to force a GM upon him, not to fire him. 
 

Ron reminds me very much of Joe Gibbs as a leader of men, a believer in process, and a guy with character. I’m really rooting for him. 
 

He sounds confident about landing a QB and I hope he’s right. I think our roster is good enough to offer the moon for an elite guy at this point. And we have the cap space to fill in the gaps in FA.

 

Yeah I am a big Ron guy.  Do i think he misplayed the QB spot last year.  Yeah.  But IMO he didn't do so flagrantly. He took some shots at upgrading.  He needed to be though more aggressive.

 

I don't blame him for 2020 at all.  He just got hired.  Haskins actually had 2 decent games towards the end of his rookie year and that was Dan's guy.  You can't easily just take a job and say to the owner adios to your rookie QB, he will have no chance, its one and out.  You got to play out the script some.  And he did and he also let go of the script pretty quick.  If I recall he was the first QB picked in the first round to be released that fast in like 20 years or something like that.  Some blame him for not doing it even faster even though it was unbelievably quick release compare to the past.

 

As a coach, I think he's done a fine job rebuilding the culture.  The dude has gravitas.  If we discard Rivera the odds that the next dude is going to come here with gravitas is slim to none.  Danny would likely have to fish in the bottom of the barrel.  

Edited January 30, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[kingdaddy]

14 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

If Ron made the playoffs this year, he should have been coach of the year. Our QB1 missed the whole season. Our pass rushing duo missed most of the season. TE1. We almost made the playoffs. I like Taylor Heinicke, and he’s a great story, but he’s not a starting caliber QB. We had no real business even being mediocre this year. 
 

If Ron stinks up the joint because he can’t find a QB, then my move would be to force a GM upon him, not to fire him. 
 

Ron reminds me very much of Joe Gibbs as a leader of men, a believer in process, and a guy with character. I’m really rooting for him. 
 

He sounds confident about landing a QB and I hope he’s right. I think our roster is good enough to offer the moon for an elite guy at this point. And we have the cap space to fill in the gaps in FA.

Just my opinion but I think RR is here as long as he wants to be and that he'll retire from the NFL before he's ever fired by Snyder. The public relations side of this organization is paramount to winning Super Bowls right now in the eyes of the organization and I think they feel RR improves everything just being here. He is a class act and that's what the franchise needs more than anything else, a face of the franchise with credibility. The players LOVE RR and I think they'll reward him with wins very soon. Any talk of RR being fired to me is not looking at the bigger picture....again, thats just my take on things. 

[philibusters]

54 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

He made the playoffs in year one.  Some downplay that but their losing streak that season was mostly about Haskins going 1-5.  in year 2, they were on pace for the playoffs until COVID-19 piled on to their injuries and they faced teams without COVID issues, it was the perfect storm.

 

 

 

I am Rivera supporter and I don't think Haskins was the answer, but Haskins really only lost to one bad team that year (the Panthers who went 5-11).  His other losses were to the Cardinals (8-8), Ravens (11-5), Browns (11-5), and Seahawks (12-4).  The NFC East was trash and he only got to play one NFC East game against the Eagles and he won.   I think even with Alex Smith starting those we probably only pick up 1 win.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

I am Rivera supporter and I don't think Haskins was the answer, but Haskins really only lost to one bad team that year (the Panthers who went 5-11).  His other losses were to the Cardinals (8-8), Ravens (11-5), Browns (11-5), and Seahawks (12-4).  The NFC East was trash and he only got to play one NFC East game against the Eagles and he won.   I think even with Alex Smith starting those we probably only pick up 1 win.

 

Tough to know.  They should have beaten the Browns IMO but he was atrocious in that game with all those picks. the Panthers weren't good but Haskins was horrendous in that game.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[wit33]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think Sheehan said it well, they overkicked their coverage when they landed Rivera.  He's not the top HC in the league but he's respected and out of Dan's league to to speak.

 

If Dan dumps him we'd likey be back in Zorn territory. and much deeper in the abyss

 

He made the playoffs in year one.  Some downplay that but their losing streak that season was mostly about Haskins going 1-5.  in year 2, they were on pace for the playoffs until COVID-19 piled on to their injuries and they faced teams without COVID issues, it was the perfect storm.

 

Rivera IMO has done a decent job notwithstanding his gambles not working at QB thus far.  He inherited Haskins so that delayed him in year 1.  But I agree he should have done something last year.  He did try to trade for Stafford and it came out via Keim weeks back that they did try to trade for Fields.  So its not like he sat on his hands.

 

I hope they can pull off something this year.  But the QB gods might not be similing on him.  Will see.  If he swings hard and misses yeah I'l give him another shot at 2023.  

 

I'd feel much more negative towards Ron if he tried nothing in 2021 and then did hardly anything in 2022 but that's my feeling, to each their own.

 

 

 

Power, money, and control will always rule when it comes to pursuing coaches. Washington provides this and will always be able to lure the next guy in.

 

My guess is it will not sour with Ron and Dan no matter the end result. Ron seems pretty standup in terms of expectations and if he doesn’t deliver, he’ll just own it and take responsibility. Feels like his last coaching stop no matter what.

 

Make it happen or move along. He’s not in any type of danger though, Dan is going to let this ride out completely is my speculative position. This is Dans grand design, his ego is involved. He will stay the course for the duration of the contract and we’ll see where we are at that point. 
 

Side note, Ron appears to be putting a lot of expectations on next year, which I’m excited to hear from him. I respect it, because he’s preached patience and now is ready to answer the bell in years 3 it appears. 

Edited January 30, 2022 by wit33

[mhd24]

15 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

I am Rivera supporter and I don't think Haskins was the answer, but Haskins really only lost to one bad team that year (the Panthers who went 5-11).  His other losses were to the Cardinals (8-8), Ravens (11-5), Browns (11-5), and Seahawks (12-4).  The NFC East was trash and he only got to play one NFC East game against the Eagles and he won.   I think even with Alex Smith starting those we probably only pick up 1 win.

Guice, AP, and the defense were why we beat the Panthers.  

[Zim489]

I just can’t deal with the eternal mediocrity. I can’t see him sticking until the new stadium last if we have that mediocrity especially if we have nothing QB

 

i also don’t know how you can extend him if he fails at QB as well. QB fails and we go 5-12 some more. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

45 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Hypothetical situation: When the Eagles drafted QB Randall Cunningham out of UNLV (1985, round 2, 37th overall) they already had an aging Ron Jaworski. During the season, head coach Buddy Ryan used Cunningham often on 3rd downs while using Jaworski on the early downs. How would we feel about drafting an unpolished, very athletic Malik Willis and mixing him in during his rookie season while TH or Kyle Allen played the early downs? I ask this for a couple of reasons: 1). I doubt Willis will be ready to play as the full time starter, 2). Heinicke can hold down the fort and is very cheap as a stopgap QB. We can pay other guys and still build the roster while Willis is growing.

In this scenario, Willis benefits from playing on a controlled basis and learns at a reasonable pace with packages based on his strengths. The team stays competitive until Willis is ready and takes over at whatever time that is. We have our rookie QB to build around. 

We could even sign a guy like Huntley and do the same thing. 

 

You have the idea right. We will most likely draft a guy who will need time to develop.

 

But there’s no way they’re trotting TH out there and trying to sell to anybody he can be the bridge. He had his run.  The coaches and fans know he just isn’t capable.  He is Chase Daniel.  13 year career backup who nobody has any desire to see start a game.  Great guy to have on your team in a pinch.  Not the guy you ever plan on playing under any circumstance.  
 

So it will be a bridge FA guy like Winston/Mitch/Teddy/Mariotta who you can get for peanuts and who will be that guy.  
 

But I could a absolutely see a scenario where they sign Mitch, draft Willis, and then get Willis a few plays, maybe even a few drives here and there as the season goes on.  And if he looks good in practice, his role expands. 

[philibusters]

21 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Guice, AP, and the defense were why we beat the Panthers.  

 

We lost to the Panthers in 2020

[dunfer]

2 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I just can’t deal with the eternal mediocrity. I can’t see him sticking until the new stadium last if we have that mediocrity especially if we have nothing QB

 

i also don’t know how you can extend him if he fails at QB as well. QB fails and we go 5-12 some more. 

he hasnt had an opportunity at a qb in hindsight. Unless you mean he shouldve purged talent and tanked. Otherwise he has to get into a situation where he is mismanaging a legit qb prospect for what your expecting i think

[mhd24]

1 minute ago, philibusters said:

 

We lost to the Panthers in 2020

Was referring to the 2019 game.  Haskins was horrible in the 2020 Panthers game.

[wit33]

23 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Guice, AP, and the defense were why we beat the Panthers.  

Random, thinking of Guice now, he shares a lot of running traits as Deebo Samuel. Who cares, but just a thought. 

[Anselmheifer]

24 minutes ago, dunfer said:

he hasnt had an opportunity at a qb in hindsight. Unless you mean he shouldve purged talent and tanked. Otherwise he has to get into a situation where he is mismanaging a legit qb prospect for what your expecting i think

But that’s not exactly true. It feels like we could have offered more for Stafford and gotten him. 
 

And we could have drafted Justin Herbert. That’s mostly hind sight. I wasn’t for drafting Herbert and almost everyone here wanted Chase. Vilsmet and I both did speak up a little bit about possibly drafting Tua. 
 

But, we aren’t paid to make football decisions. I’m also not sure it’s unfair to ding a coach and GM a little for not being smarter than we were. They are paid millions of dollars to make better decisions than we do. 

[Jericho]

10 hours ago, zskins said:

 

But you will need a bridge when your drafted QB is not ready to start though.

 

That's a pretty rare situation though. Maybe someone like Trey Lance, who only played one season as a red-shirt sophomore (in part due to COVID) and did so at a FCS school might apply. But so many QBs start as rookies, even later round picks. While it used to be typical that QBs "developed" on the bench and rookies rarely started, that hasn't been true for a long time. It's exceptionally rare these days that QBs don't start as rookies. Maybe not from Day 1, but it's often sooner rather than later. And the few examples of players who did sit even for 1 year, often they did so only because they were behind someone actually good (like say Aaron Rodgers behind Favre or Rivers behind Brees). The idea to not start as a rookie if you're not blocked is pretty much gone.

[Jericho]

9 hours ago, KDawg said:

Simply because people haven’t done it often. Patience is a virtue. If you take a guy you believe in you are committing to him for 10 years. There are situations where they come in and they aren’t who you thought they were. Then you cut ties. But if they show the ability to do it but just aren’t game ready yet, don’t rush him “because it’s what teams do”. The idea is for your assets to become valuable. Not ruin them.

 

But the point is that QBs are ready. Pretty much anyone worth drafting should be. The idea that there are guys not ready that you can "develop" in the NFL seems almost like a myth. I'm hard-pressed to think of even one good example. Maybe Kirk Cousins? That would be the best example of the last 15 years I think.

 

I can't think of one player who a team "gave up on" and then suddenly was a lot better somewhere else. You see it at other positions at times, but not QB. You basically either have it or don't. One might argue all those busts might have succeed if they weren't "rushed", but other than wild speculation there's little to back that up. They were probably busts regardless.

[Koolblue13]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I get the angst if they don't pull it off this year.

 

But if Dan fires Ron who is one of the most liked coaches in the NFL -- even though he's coaching for dumpster fire organziation -- owner, stadium, facilities, etc -- good luck attracting the next coach.  Whomever that would be it would be name that either has been reject type, Herm Edwards type or name that coordinator who isn't hot in demand.

 

This place is already arguably the Siberia of the NFL.  Dan fired Ron before his contract is up, we'd be doubling down on Siberia 

Some fans want to just draft long shots and hope they magically put our dumpster fire out. Maybe we can try that with coaches. Fire ron and we can target the next spurrier or urban and really throw the gas on it