The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[rumplestilskin]

1 minute ago, OMacAttack said:

He needs to do what Ben did.  Find a girl and get married bury the past and hope it doesn't raise from the dead.  Oh yeah and don't be a freaking perv with masseuses.

I mean before all this perverted stuff came out on him he was a major philanthropist and community guy. If we dont get him I sure hope he stays out of the division.

[Redskins 2021]

6 minutes ago, rumplestilskin said:

I mean before all this perverted stuff came out on him he was a major philanthropist and community guy. If we dont get him I sure hope he stays out of the division.

The Giants and Eagles potentially having interest is scary because they have the picks to get him. 

Other then Denver and Miami no other teams can really make better offers them those two.

I read today the nyg might get Wilson and Eagles might get Watson.  if were lucky we get Trubisky that will look great.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[OMacAttack]

2 minutes ago, rumplestilskin said:

I mean before all this perverted stuff came out on him he was a major philanthropist and community guy. If we dont get him I sure hope he stays out of the division.

Didn't know the community stuff, it makes sense for a superstar QB to be involved in that stuff though.  Agreed I don't want to face him 2 times a year. Hopefully there is some movement to his cases and the speculation can end soon.

[Jericho]

4 hours ago, Redskins 2021 said:

He going to have  couple teams after him no gaurntee we get him it will be competitive.

 

Not really sure where this mythical huge market is coming from for Trubisky. He was a free agent last year and all he got was $2.5 million to sit behind the MVP runner up. And then threw 8 passes total. If he couldn't find a starting job in 2021, not sure who's going to give him one in 2022.

 

Reminds me of all the "hype" some people on this board tried to ascribe to Marcus Mariota last year. Some were trying to trade multiple draft picks just to acquire him. When, instead, he had to cut his salary from $10.725 million (not including numerous incentives that he likely could have met had he found a starting job) to $3.5 million to avoid getting cut. The simple fact is that these fringy starter guys like Trubisky, Dalton, Mariota, and so forth don't have much of a market. If you throw even $5 million and a chance to start, you'll likely be able to sign anyone you want in that group with ease.

[Jds0912]

2 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

Not really sure where this mythical huge market is coming from for Trubisky. He was a free agent last year and all he got was $2.5 million to sit behind the MVP runner up. And then threw 8 passes total. If he couldn't find a starting job in 2021, not sure who's going to give him one in 2022.

 

Reminds me of all the "hype" some people on this board tried to ascribe to Marcus Mariota last year. Some were trying to trade multiple draft picks just to acquire him. When, instead, he had to cut his salary from $10.725 million (not including numerous incentives that he likely could have met had he found a starting job) to $3.5 million to avoid getting cut. The simple fact is that these fringy starter guys like Trubisky, Dalton, Mariota, and so forth don't have much of a market. If you throw even $5 million and a chance to start, you'll likely be able to sign anyone you want in that group with ease.

Couldn’t agree more. I don’t understand it 😂

[Redskins 2021]

9 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

Not really sure where this mythical huge market is coming from for Trubisky. He was a free agent last year and all he got was $2.5 million to sit behind the MVP runner up. And then threw 8 passes total. If he couldn't find a starting job in 2021, not sure who's going to give him one in 2022.

 

Reminds me of all the "hype" some people on this board tried to ascribe to Marcus Mariota last year. Some were trying to trade multiple draft picks just to acquire him. When, instead, he had to cut his salary from $10.725 million (not including numerous incentives that he likely could have met had he found a starting job) to $3.5 million to avoid getting cut. The simple fact is that these fringy starter guys like Trubisky, Dalton, Mariota, and so forth don't have much of a market. If you throw even $5 million and a chance to start, you'll likely be able to sign anyone you want in that group with ease.

 There are five or six teams this year Pittsburgh, New Orleans,Denver, Cleveland, and Indianapolis who will all be fighting over these type of players. 

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[Jericho]

1 hour ago, MrJL said:

 

1. Watson has not done that while Garrapolo has, 2. you can't put morality issues aside with the issues we've had

 

in fact, how can anyone who believes negative things about this team consider Watson as a viable player for us?

 

Watson is probably the only real difference maker available to this team this off-season at QB (and even then, maybe he won't be with a no-trade clause). Everything else just seems to just be treading water, at best. I cannot predict the draft for certain, but there are far more drafts like 2019 (where the only real good QB was long off the board long before Washington picked) than not. It's legit to not want Watson on moral grounds. But also be aware that passing on Watson (assuming he'd even consider playing here) will likely have devastating effects. Like Miami passing on Brees.

[rumplestilskin]

I think Cousins, Watson, Wilson and Carr are moved when all is said and done. Maybe not Carr but I feel the others will move.

Trubiski, Mariota, Winston are JAGS that will fill stop gap options and one may emege as viable if not solid player like Tannehill became.

[Jericho]

13 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

 There are five or six teams this year Pittsburgh, New Orleans,Denver, Cleveland, and Indianapolis who will all be fighting over these type of players. 

 

 

People say that EVERY year. I think it's too early to says anything with any certainty. But where's Baker Mayfield going? Where's Carson Wentz going? But those guys are still under contract (and both seem way better than Trubisky). New Orleans is about $60 million over the cap. Want happens to Winston (you can toss him in the Trubisky-levei bin too)? Simple fact is that Trubisky doesn't suddenly become a $20 million dollar player because Big Ben might retire. I think most of these jobs ends up with rookies, though there might be some musical chairs going on with other QBs as to where those rookies start.

[Redskins 2021]

11 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

People say that EVERY year. I think it's too early to says anything with any certainty. But where's Baker Mayfield going? Where's Carson Wentz going? But those guys are still under contract (and both seem way better than Trubisky). New Orleans is about $60 million over the cap. Want happens to Winston (you can toss him in the Trubisky-levei bin too)? Simple fact is that Trubisky doesn't suddenly become a $20 million dollar player because Big Ben might retire. I think most of these jobs ends up with rookies, though there might be some musical chairs going on with other QBs as to where those rookies start.

They are going to challenge those guys for starting spots. Mayfield ,Wentz, could lose there job to one of those guys. Those guys are under contract one more year browns and colts will let them walk next year.

Mariota had a no trade in his contract one of the reason we did not get him last year was he was not coming unless he was getting top dollar. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[Jericho]

14 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

They going to challenge those guys for starting spots. Mayfield ,Wentz, could lose there job to one of those guys. Those guys are under contract one more year browns and colts will let them walk next year.

Mariota had a no trade in his contract one of the reason we did not get him last year was he was not coming unless he got top dollar. 

 

A few points. I think a lot of people don't realize how "little" back-up QBs get paid (little relative to other NFL players, particularly QBs). Even getting five million is pretty rare. So anyone that signs with Cleveland or Indi would do it for little money and frankly little chance to start. Anyone could do it, but logically it makes little sense. There a reason guys like Winston, Dalton, and Fitzpatrick signed with teams without clear starters.

 

Also, Wentz is signed through 2024.

 

As for Mariota, I think you have it backwards. Mariota did negotiate a no trade clause into his deal AFTER he agreed to reduce his salary by over 7 million dollars (no trade clause are exceptionally rare in the NFL. Only around 10 guys have them, though interestingly that list includes Wilson and Watson). He did not have one before that. In fact his contract was probably part of the problem. His base salary for 2021 was  $10.725 million, but also included  fairly easily earned incentives that could have raised it to nearly $20 million if he started. The simple fact is no one wants to trade picks AND pay Mariota $20 million dollars. Though if a team actually wanted Mariota in 2021, I'm sure they would have made it happen. And I'm sure Mariota would have vastly preferred earning anywhere between $10-$20 million dollars and starting rather than earning $3.5 million and basically never playing.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Jericho

[Redskins 2021]

42 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

A few points. I think a lot of people don't realize how "little" back-up QBs get paid (little relative to other NFL players, particularly QBs). Even getting five million is pretty rare. So anyone that signs with Cleveland or Indi would do it for little money and frankly little chance to start. Anyone could do it, but logically it makes little sense. There a reason guys like Winston, Dalton, and Fitzpatrick signed with teams without clear starters.

 

Also, Wentz is signed through 2024.

 

As for Mariota, I think you have it backwards. Mariota did negotiate a no trade clause into his deal AFTER he agreed to reduce his salary by over 7 million dollars (no trade clause are exceptionally rare in the NFL. Only around 10 guys have them, though interestingly that list includes Wilson and Watson). He did not have one before that. In fact his contract was probably part of the problem. His base salary for 2021 was  $10.725 million, but also included  fairly easily earned incentives that could have raised it to nearly $20 million if he started. The simple fact is no one wants to trade picks AND pay Mariota $20 million dollars. Though if a team actually wanted Mariota in 2021, I'm sure they would have made it happen. And I'm sure Mariota would have vastly preferred earning anywhere between $10-$20 million dollars and starting rather than earning $3.5 million and basically never playing.

They can cut Wentz end of the year it would be 15 million now to cut him now there is no cap hit next year.Jimmy G also has a no trade clause. 

Mariota contract was the problem he was not coming here unless he was paid top dollar even if it was to start.

 He was willing to take less money to not come to Washington. He made the radiers give him a no trade clause just to avoid Washington and he was willing to take less money from the Raiders to stay.I would take that as players do not want to come here.

I think Marrota last year is a clear example of how hard it is going to be to get any QB who has options to come here. I think we are going to have to over pay to even get any QB who has the potential of starting. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[Skinsinparadise]

I haven't watched full Trubisky games yet.  Watched multiple positive highlights games including his ballyhooed preseason game from this past year and a lowlights you tube watch of his games versus the Packers.  I watched Peyton Manning's show on Trubisky that he did for ESPN, he profiled a bunch of QBs in different segments.  He did about 30 minutes on Trubisky and I watched the whole thing. 

 

I also watched a couple of you tube segments by different media people about him.    i watched him mic'd up multiple times in games.  Read a bunch of his interviews.  Studied his stats.  Read his PFF profile.  I didn't watch full games because I couldn't find any.  i got to go on Game Pass and I'll do that ultimately.  

 

Just my opinion, i could end up of course dead wrong.  But I at least spent some time on it, so at least as to forming my own opinion it gives me more confidence in it and I'll put more time on it in the future.   My mind might change after watching Game Pass.  But for now, my take is this.

 

The good news first: 

 

If the Bills fixed anything with Trubisky maybe its him starring at his target receivers and going past his first read.  it was really egregious in what I watched with the Bears -- starring and locking into his first read.  I recall seeing the same with Sam Darnold ironically with the Jets and commented on that among other things in last year's QB thread.   In the preseason game Trubisky was looking off receivers some, and going through progressions.

 

I like him a lot as a runner.  I don't love his pocket presence but when he sees the pressure, his escapability is Heinicke like.  And he's elusive in the open field as a runner. 

 

He doesn't have a gun but has plenty of arm strength.    Has nice touch and can hit receivers well in stride when he's on his game 

 

He can throw on the move, to the right or left readjusts his feet

 

Bad news

 

He's not good at selling play action or for that matter selling anything.  When its a run coming, he slows down and carefully hands the ball to the runner.  You can see it coming a mile away.  When he does the fake handoff to sell play action its often a lame looking fake, the ball doesn't get close enough to the RB for anyone to buy it.  Actually this stuff Heinicke is really good at, Trubisky would be a step down on this front.  

 

When you pressure him, he seems to have happy feet and his game spirals downward

 

He has a fumbling problem and causes turnovers at the wrong time ala Daniel Jones but not as bad as him.  27 fumbles in 4 years.

 

At least with the Bears he stares at his first read and seems determined to throw to his first read.

 

Judging his accuracy is what I have to ultimately see for myself.  I know PFF isn't perfect.  But they aren't odd balls either when it comes to evaluating QBs -- its not like they hate name that great QB and love the bad ones.  Their charts showed for example that Darnold probably will fail at Carolina, etc.  So as for Trubisky they highly tout their adjusted completion % numbers because it supposedly charts accuracy -- dropped balls, do WRs (ala Allen Robinson) have to adjust heavily to catch the balls, etc.  Long story short, Trubisky's numbers on that are atrocious.  Darnold level bad.  Consistently bad, every year.   He's neck and neck like twins with Darnold on that stat, some years he was slightly better and in others slighly worse. 

 

This part is just a pure guess.   Most of this is just gut from watching him mic'd up, watching some of his interviews and reading some.  He doesn't strike me as a Rhodes Scholar type QB.  When I watched Alex Smith's interview or Fitz after we acquired them you could see why their Wonderlic scores were off the charts.  When you watch Trubisky IMO you can see why his Wonderlic Score is 25.    Comes off to me very jockish, not dumb at all, but not uber cerebral either.  Comes off very ordinary, nothing special.

 

In interviews, he's admitted that he struggles to read defenses, he can see he has happy feet in games.  He comes off to me like a dude that doesn't have a ton of confidence in himself and if things go awry that doubt creeps up fast.

 

I'll make a final conclusion after watching some full games.  But for now, he doesn't strike me as bad as Rosen and Darnold.  I destroyed them when I dove into both in the previous two year off seasons.  But on first blush, I think Trubisky will likely end up a bust at his next stint.  But I don't think it will be straight line bust ala Darnold and Rosen.  I think it will be an up and down version of it where the result if we are lucky might end up average QB play but more likely slightly below average QB play. 

 

The only thing I like about Trubisky over Mariota is durability.   I watched Mariota eons back last off season so i need to refresh.  I did a comparison of his adjusted completion percentage over Trubsiky and Mariota beat him. In the three years where I could find comparisons.  Mariota ranked 27 spots ahead of Trubisky.  In another 4 spots ahead.  In another10 spots ahead.  It's not that Mariota is some prize either.  But I'd definitely take him over Trubisky.  I get why PFF doesn't even put Trubisky in their top 100 FAs this year while Mariota if I recall was 61.

 

And again obviously this is just my opinion and obviously I could end up dead wrong. 

 

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-monson-mitchell-trubiskys-recent-success-is-a-trap-the-chicago-bears-should-not-fall-for

During the 2018 season, Trubisky’s numbers all took a jump in the right direction. The Bears offense was better and people were convinced that the young passer was developing and was on the right track. At PFF, we sounded warning sirens — though the offense was more productive, Trubisky’s PFF grade wasn’t any better. In fact, it was slightly worse than the year before. 

When that happens, it suggests that the improvement from the offense is being driven by other factors and that eventually Trubisky's short-term success would come back to bite them when they needed more from their signal-caller. We were pilloried as doom-mongers, haters and trolls — but then 2019 happened.

That’s the exact same situation we’re witnessing unfold right now, except with the added complication of a cakewalk slate of defenses. The Bears offense has been humming, but Trubisky’s grade has stayed where it usually is — below average. Inevitably, when he actually needs to do more than he has recently, disaster will follow.

Sep 13, 2020; Detroit, Michigan, USA; Chicago Bears quarterback Mitchell Trubisky (10) drops back to pass 2 against the Detroit Lions at Ford Field. Credit: Tim Fuller-USA TODAY Sports

Chicago already made its decision on Trubisky, electing not to pick up his fifth-year option before the season began. And then it benched him for Nick Foles when the team was positioned well and Trubisky’s play had actually been largely fine. The team essentially ended the experiment earlier in the season when everything else looked like it was in good shape.

But we’re to believe that the last four games have been enough for the Bears to completely reverse course on everything they decided up until that point? A four-game sample size really isn’t enough to make that kind of decision, even if the picture wasn’t being clouded by terrible defensive opposition.

If, however, that is exactly what is happening inside of Halas Hall based on the bottom-line evaluation of Trubisky potentially leading the team back to the playoffs, it could be the most harmful thing that could happen to the franchise over the next few years. Drafting the wrong quarterback is painful — and trading up to do it hurts even more — but compounding the mistake by doubling down when you were on the way toward cutting bait is a potentially catastrophic mistake.

At least the previous two errors were relatively low-cost from a salary-cap standpoint. Signing Trubisky to a much more expensive contract would create a drag on the salary cap as well as on the offense on the field, essentially doubling the problems that a substandard performer at the most important position in the league causes.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

I wouldn't spend too much time watching/looking into Mariota, Trubisky or Bridgewater. If any of them are here it needs to be as a bridge that is better than Heinicke. Nothing more.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I wouldn't spend too much time watching/looking into Mariota, Trubisky or Bridgewater. If any of them are here it needs to be as a bridge that is better than Heinicke. Nothing more.

 

 

 

IMHO Trubisky is certainly more talented than Heinicke.  And likely an improvement over him.  IMO the one thing Heinicke does better is selling/misdirecting defenses.  Everything else IMO Trubisky does better.  It doesn't feel to me that Trubisky's career will have a 2nd life at his next stint where he becomes the QB that the Bears expected when they took him at #3.  But i could see him certainly play better at his next stint than he did there. 

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

Just saw that Watson would be interested in teaming with Flores if Giants hire Flores. That could make Jones a reclamation project if skins wanted to talk trade. Allot on here wanted Jones..do they still?

 

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2022/01/16/if-new-york-giants-hire-brian-flores-could-deshaun-watson-become-option/

[rumplestilskin]

5 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Just saw that Watson would be interested in teaming with Flores if Giants hire Flores. That could make Jones a reclamation project if skins wanted to talk trade. Allot on here wanted Jones..do they still?

 

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2022/01/16/if-new-york-giants-hire-brian-flores-could-deshaun-watson-become-option/

He is a train wreck. Tons of talent but turns the ball over so much. His neck injury may be career ending.

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Just saw that Watson would be interested in teaming with Flores if Giants hire Flores. That could make Jones a reclamation project if skins wanted to talk trade. Allot on here wanted Jones..do they still?

 

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2022/01/16/if-new-york-giants-hire-brian-flores-could-deshaun-watson-become-option/

 

Don't recall a lot of people wanting Jones.  But speaking for myself, a loud no, I hated him before the draft, I don't hate him as much now but still don't think too highly about him.

 

I am trying to recall who was high on Jones?  I know there were some who liked Darnold. 

[NewCliche21]

26 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Just saw that Watson would be interested in teaming with Flores if Giants hire Flores. That could make Jones a reclamation project if skins wanted to talk trade. Allot on here wanted Jones..do they still?

 

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2022/01/16/if-new-york-giants-hire-brian-flores-could-deshaun-watson-become-option/

 

I really wanted Jones to go to NYG, not here.  I don't remember anyone on here clamoring for him.

[CobraCommander]

10 hours ago, rumplestilskin said:

I mean before all this perverted stuff came out on him he was a major philanthropist and community guy. If we dont get him I sure hope he stays out of the division.

More like full on rapist.

 

 

[Redskins 2021]

14 minutes ago, rumplestilskin said:

He is a train wreck. Tons of talent but turns the ball over so much. His neck injury may be career ending.

I think we have to go after Watson first. Big risk bigger reward. We become an 11 win team with him dark horse for super bowl. It will be difficult to get him but we could have 10 years of Top QB play with him here.

 After that Carr or Jimmy G neither is prefect but both are above average. They will cost alot but are proven Qb. Both top 15 QB. Problems are Jimmy G injury history and will Carr be available this off season.

 Then we should look at rookie vet combos. This is the most likely route we will take. I hope they have a real idea what to do this year because last was a disaster when they did not get Stafford. 

[rumplestilskin]

4 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

More like full on rapist.

 

 

Thats some good stuff. How fitting. LOL

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I’m curious if those who believe we must make a huge play for Watson have looked into the allegations.  Even if it doesn’t end up criminal, to put it lightly, he’s at minimum got some personal issues he needs to work out.

 

Beyond it being a very bad look for a sexual assault saddled organization like ours, he appears to have zero interest in coming here.

 

 

[CobraCommander]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’m curious if those who believe we must make a huge play for Watson have looked into the allegations.  Even if it doesn’t end up criminal, to put it lightly, he’s at minimum got some personal issues he needs to work out.

 

Beyond it being a very bad look for a sexual assault saddled organization like ours, he appears to have zero interest in coming here.

 

 

Yeah we're not getting him for so many reasons and I'm ok with that. 

[tomwvr]

13 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Jimmy G. has already been to one Super Bowl....amazing that he could go to a second one. I think the Niners are the last team Green Bay wants to see next week. 

And isn't Taylors contract like 4 mil next season? Is Jimmy G worth 21 mil and high draft picks over what we already have in Allen and TH? 

I thought TH was 1 million next year