The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

@JamesMadisonSkinsI think if we go into this season with nobody but Trubisky/Mariota and Heinicke then quite possibly Ron's job would be in jeopardy. Not immediately, but after this coming season. That's an enormous fail. Neither of those guys are franchise QBs. Reclamation projects don't really work; those guys are both backups.

 

I don't think Dan or the fan base would be very happy with punting on a QB once again. We did it last offseason and that was bad enough. Ron and the FO have pretty much telegraphed how desperate they are for a QB, so Ron knows perfectly well that punting is almost a non-option.

 

I mostly agree with you but let me play devil's advocate.

 

Let's say we trade from #11 down to #22, 4th rounder, and 2023 1st rounder from Pittsburgh in exchange for them drafting their QB at #11.

 

We have one of Trubisky or Mariota. We use the #22 pick, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 4th to bolster the offensive weapons, OL and defensive back 7.

 

We use FA to extend Terry, Settle, and bring in a stud LB.

 

We go 9-8 and just miss the playoffs (if we made it at 9-8, I think this whole debate is moot, cause that's 2 in 3 years for Ron, he aint being fired).

 

Entering the 2023 off-season you have pick #10 (Steelers) and #18 (Own). You also have $65m in cap space with 2022 rollovers.

 

Let's assume we miss the playoffs for this exercise though. Assuming you're competitive in most games and there's no embarrassing end of season disaster games against NFC East teams, you gotta be optimistic heading into the off-season, no? I mean clearly there's a chance he's on the hot seat going into 2023, and I generally agree the sooner QB is figured out the better for everyone. I'm just thinking of a scenario in which we almost make the playoffs, are on the cusp, and are set up for a big 2023 off-season to move for the QB and Ron would be safe. Of course, Dan could get happy feet and envision another offensive mastermind who could come in and be the guy to take us the next step with our franchise guy. idk.

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

I mostly agree with you but let me play devil's advocate.

 

Let's say we trade from #11 down to #22, 4th rounder, and 2023 1st rounder from Pittsburgh in exchange for them drafting their QB at #11.

 

We have one of Trubisky or Mariota. We use the #22 pick, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 4th to bolster the offensive weapons, OL and defensive back 7.

 

We use FA to extend Terry, Settle, and bring in a stud LB.

 

We go 9-8 and just miss the playoffs (if we made it at 9-8, I think this whole debate is moot, cause that's 2 in 3 years for Ron, he aint being fired).

 

Entering the 2023 off-season you have pick #10 (Steelers) and #18 (Own). You also have $65m in cap space with 2022 rollovers.

 

Let's assume we miss the playoffs for this exercise though. Assuming you're competitive in most games and there's no embarrassing end of season disaster games against NFC East teams, you gotta be optimistic heading into the off-season, no? I mean clearly there's a chance he's on the hot seat going into 2023, and I generally agree the sooner QB is figured out the better for everyone. I'm just thinking of a scenario in which we almost make the playoffs, are on the cusp, and are set up for a big 2023 off-season to move for the QB and Ron would be safe. Of course, Dan could get happy feet and envision another offensive mastermind who could come in and be the guy to take us the next step with our franchise guy. idk.

 

The only way I could see Ron being safe in this situation is if some miracle happened and Trubisky or Mariota suddenly became top franchise QBs and were one of the main reasons we ended up with 9 wins.

 

If, on the other hand, they stay who they currently are and we win a bunch of squeakers and mostly they tag along but aren't actually instrumental in the wins (or the team even won in spite of them) then Ron's job is absolutely still in jeopardy after this season because IMO that would just reinforce how much the lack of a franchise QB is continuing to hurt us.

 

So if it's the latter case, then no there's probably not a lot of reason for optimism because we'd still know that we're not going to be contenders until we get that QB, we'd still know we absolutely don't have one and that we just basically wasted another season without one.

[rumplestilskin]

I am dog tired of stop gap options. Been there done that for 3 freakin decades. We need to swing for the fences and finally get a bona fide QB.

[Conn]

48 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

I agree with the JAG thing BUT if you have a sure-fire QB1 in this class, which the FO might, then you go get him. Fortunately, #4 from #11 won't mortgage too much of the future to do so. In a perfect world yes, you sit at #11 and just take the best QB available at that point. I'd be hard pressed to see more than 2 QBs go in front of us. There's almost a guarantee 1 of Howell, Pickett, Corral and Willis is there at #11, and a pretty good chance 2 of them are ... and definitely not out of the realm of possibilities that at #11 you can get the #2 QB.

 

I think it is pretty unlikely we can stay at #11 and get a top 2-3 QB talent if only bc we will so obviously be drafting a QB that people will be able to easily foresee it and jump ahead of us. So to avoid that and get our guy I believe we’ll need to jump up while whatever pick is on the clock and guarantee our guy, whoever that ends up being. 

[KDawg]

Why are we discussing drafting anything other than a QB?

 

That's dangerous, and I'll explain why in my opinion.

 

This year we draft someone other than a QB, we shore up a few areas of need and we finish in the 5-9 win range with Trubisky/Mariota/Bridgewater.

 

We go into next season and we realize we need something else... We aren't in position to draft a top QB but we still need stuff because guys left and some of our picks didn't pan out. We convince ourselves again to go a different position.

 

And the cycle continues.

 

Draft a guy. 

[Redskins 2021]

3 minutes ago, rumplestilskin said:

I am dog tired of stop gap options. Been there done that for 3 freakin decades. We need to swing for the fences and finally get a bona fide QB.

I agree but be prepared to pay this year ten  teams need qb. 

[Zim489]

25 minutes ago, mistertim said:

@JamesMadisonSkinsI think if we go into this season with nobody but Trubisky/Mariota and Heinicke then quite possibly Ron's job would be in jeopardy. Not immediately, but after this coming season. That's an enormous fail. Neither of those guys are franchise QBs. Reclamation projects don't really work; those guys are both backups.

 

I don't think Dan or the fan base would be very happy with punting on a QB once again. We did it last offseason and that was bad enough. Ron and the FO have pretty much telegraphed how desperate they are for a QB, so Ron knows perfectly well that punting is almost a non-option.

 

39 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

--------------

To me, the first path is trade market. You see what you have to do to get Watson. Then possibly Wilson ... maybe Rodgers or Jordan Love.

 

But the most likely path in my opinion is Mariota or Trubisky on a similar deal to what FItz got this year, probably about the same amount of $$ too. This provides you with a 2022 option/competition for Heinicke. It also *protects* you from forcing QB in the draft, to support my above comment of waiting until #11.

IF your QB falls you snatch him at #11, or even trade up a bit to get him. IF your QB does NOT fall, here's what I would do. Do whatever you can to accumulate draft capital and trade down from #11. I would take a late 1st from anyone interested in a QB (that I don't like, possibly). IE if WFT isn't sold on Pickett or Willis and Corral and Howell are off the board, trade down with Saints or Steelers. Get their late 1st and 2023 1st. Maybe an extra 3rd thrown in.

NOW, when your pick rolls around at #24 (hypothetically), you are either better positioned to get a QB you are less certain about or you draft a different position and take a flier on someone in Round 2 or 3.

#24: WR

2nd: Desmond Ritter?

3rd: TE

4th: CB

 

Now you go into the season with Trubisky, Ritter, Heinicke at QB. You also have the Steelers and your own 2023 1st round pick. Trubisky could play pretty well, lead the team to the playoffs, and maybe the team is really confident in what Ritter has to offer and he and Trubisky battle it out in 2023. Or Trubisky isn't great, Ritter comes in and isn't great, and the team stumbles to another 8-9 type season. Well, now you probably have two mid to high picks, in a stronger QB class. Maybe #1 isn't available depending who is picking at #1. But if #1 is available to trade, I would be trading both 2023 1sts (lets just say hypothetically they're picks #12 and #14) and a 2024 1st round pick to move up to draft Bryce Young.

 

Now, I know a lot can change in a year. You can't *bank* on anything. See Tank for Tua. BUT ... what this does do is gives you flexibility. You allow yourself to add draft capital in 2023 that you COULD use on a QB, or maybe it just becomes a luxury because your 2nd round QB seems legit. Or Trubisky somehow goes berzerk and leads us to a 12-5 record.

________________

Now here's where that plan can go sideways and I DON'T support it.

 

Signing Trubisky or Mariota, staying at #11 and drafting, say, a Cornerback. Then using a 2nd and 3rd on LB and Guard. And you basically come out of the off-season with Trubisky and no draft capital to get super aggressive in 2023. If we aren't taking QB at #11, or trading down and taking a QB in late 1st or early 2nd, I think it's critical to somehow stockpile additional early 2023 picks to get aggressive at QB.

I agree with everything here. I think they haven’t been aggressive enough in attacking QB. this would at least stockpile for making future moves. 
 

My one issue here is the Ron timeline. Say your Ron doesn’t work out after year 4 with his Rookie QB he traded a bunch of picks for. Ron is due for a contract extension because he won’t coach on a lame duck 5th year. So Ron gets fired and are now forcing the 3rd straight staff working with the ex guys QB. That’s main problem we have had over the last 10 years 

[rumplestilskin]

Just now, Redskins 2021 said:

I agree but be prepared to pay this year ten  teams need qb. 

Oh yes. We will have to pay dearly but it is the cost of show business to be a contender. Step 1= Franchise QB

[JamesMadisonSkins]

15 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

So if it's the latter case, then no there's probably not a lot of reason for optimism because we'd still know that we're not going to be contenders until we get that QB, we'd still know we absolutely don't have one and that we just basically wasted another season without one.

Fair, but If our defense rebounds to Top 5-10, we add weapons on offense and that QB is an upgraded version of Heinicke, we got 10-7 and get a wildcard … that’s probably the true goal in that strategy. Then you’re stacked and need to get that rookie in 2023. Problem is, then you’re leaning on a rookie (albeit an elite caliber if you can trade up) in 2023.  But even being able to trade up to get one is no guarantee since the top teams likely will want a QB. So I guess I’m talking myself into a rookie this year as Plan B to Watson, because you’re banking on a lot going right in that other scenario. 
 

I still think you bring in a Vet to start over the rookie for this year though.

Edited January 14, 2022 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Redskins 2021]

3 minutes ago, rumplestilskin said:

Oh yes. We will have to pay dearly but it is the cost of show business to be a contender. Step 1= Franchise QB

I think after we Won the division I thought we were getting Stafford it would be expensive but would solve this problem  for five year, we did not do it.

In typical Washington fashion we did not get him. Qb will cost double what they would have cost last year because the draft players are not as good as last years draft players and more teams need qb.

It the same thing every year.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[rumplestilskin]

1 minute ago, Redskins 2021 said:

I think your after we Won the divosion

Elaborate?

[Inigo Montoya]

Get the dude in the draft, we don’t have to move into the top 3 to get a guy this year. We have players and picks we can trade and our cupboard isn’t bare. Yeah we have holes to fill, but so does every team. And we’re in great shape if sweat/young produce like they’re supposed to. If Logan Thomas and Curtis Samuel play, we had awful luck this year.

 

Trade up to wherever we have to go get corral or Howell. I think that’s the 4 spot 

[mistertim]

12 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Fair, but If our defense rebounds to Top 5-10, we add weapons on offense and that QB is an upgraded version of Heinicke, we got 10-7 and get a wildcard … that’s probably the true goal in that strategy. Then you’re stacked and need to get that rookie in 2023. Problem is, then you’re leaning on a rookie (albeit an elite caliber if you can trade up) in 2023.  But even being able to trade up to get one is no guarantee since the top teams likely will want a QB. So I guess I’m talking myself into a rookie this year as Plan B to Watson, because you’re banking on a lot going right in that other scenario. 
 

I still think you bring in a Vet to start over the rookie for this year though.

 

Oh I absolutely agree with bringing in a vet regardless. I'd be fine with Mariota or Trubisky as long as we also draft a QB in the 1st (no bargain bin mid or late round QB hunting). I just think that even if we limped into the playoffs next season based on our defense and a superior supporting cast, but still with mediocre at best QB play, it wouldn't be much help because IMO would still highlight a couple of things:

 

1) We're not going to be a real contender until we get a true franchise QB. We might sneak into the playoffs once but it won't really go anywhere. The teams with mediocre QBs who get to the SB with their defense and a stellar supporting cast a very few and far between...and they never get back again either.

 

2) We have a great defense and supporting cast that's essentially being wasted because we still haven't gotten our QB yet.

 

Yes in this situation we could then get a rookie in 2023 but as you noted you're banking on a bunch of stuff going right for that to happen. It's just super duper risky and I'm still not convinced that Ron would be truly safe even in that situation.

Edited January 14, 2022 by mistertim

[theTruthTeller]

Just some random thoughts.  I didn't have time to read all the wisdom in these 130 pages, so I apologize if some of this is repetitive.

 

From RRs standpoint, if he trades significant draft capital and/or cap space for a QB, he probably needs to win the division next year, at a minimum. Maybe he could get by with a wild card if he wins 11 games.  But if he doesn't make the playoffs or squeaks in with a first round loss, all fingers will be pointing at him instead of the QB.

 

If he drafts a quarterback and the offense is exciting to watch by the end of the year, I think he could get another year to prove himself.

 

I think the notion that Watson can clear out his problems is not reasonable.  At best, he can settle the problems that the public currently knows about.  If 22 women are suing, there is a good chance of 22 more women waiting to see what happens before they sue.  Not to mention that he was allegedly flying in instagram models from other states for purposes of sex, which brings in the possibility of federal charges even if he does settle the civil cases with the current plaintiffs.  Watson is not the player you bet your future on, even if your future without Watson is likely being on the wrong side of mediocre.

 

We have a ton of cap space, but the reason we have so much cap space is that we don't have a veteran QB and Scherff is off the board.  I'm generally not in favor of moving up the board, but I we could move up and draft a really good prospect at either QB or OL and use the cap room to fill in some weak areas, I'd be for it.  There are no sure things when you draft a QB, so just make a reasoned choice and hope for the best.  The worst thing that can happen is that you end up being a linebackers coach for a couple of seasons.

[Zim489]

13 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Fair, but If our defense rebounds to Top 5-10, we add weapons on offense and that QB is an upgraded version of Heinicke, we got 10-7 and get a wildcard … that’s probably the true goal in that strategy. Then you’re stacked and need to get that rookie in 2023. Problem is, then you’re leaning on a rookie (albeit an elite caliber if you can trade up). But even being able to trade up is no guarantee. So I guess I’m talking myself into a rookie this year as Plan B to Watson

I really don’t want us to turn into the Andy Dalton led Bengals. We already have that in this town with the Caps

[Redskins 2021]

17 minutes ago, rumplestilskin said:

Elaborate?

We should have got QB last year.

[Zim489]

Just now, Redskins 2021 said:

We should have got QB last year.

Yup. It’ll end up being Ron’s downfall. Or it semi works out and we are with until 2027 with a new HC so we can finally end the mediocrity that Panther fans warned us about 

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

Not sure I quite get the Mills talk. Everyone and their mother knows that Watson has said he won't play another down for the Texans. So they drafted a guy and he played pretty well for a rookie...and now they're suddenly going to turn around and try to trade the only decent QB on their roster? Makes zero sense.

Well to me its comparable to when SF had Jimmy G and then Beathard and Mullins came in and looked decent. SF decided to keep them for whatever reason but the fact that they played well meant they were probably at peak trade value, especially if Kyle S had determined that they didn't have much of a future as starters. Houston has a new coach and I'm not sure that Mills as the starter will be a necessary part of the contract. So they'll be able to look at Mills and maybe say I want my own guy or go get a veteran like Wentz and then Mills becomes expendable. 

 

Honestly I'm not too excited about any of these names coming up right now. If its not Corral, Howell or Willis then I think we will have failed this offseason. I'm bringing up alternative names because I'm partially trying to convince myself that I'm ok with these moves because I'm used to this team letting me down. 

[Tress Is The Way]

4 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

We should have got QB last year.

I called for Mac Jones last year and everyone balked. Mac Jones was the best rookie QB this year.. who would have thunk it?

 

Kenny Pickett or bust

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, ZarG3 said:

I called for Mac Jones last year and everyone balked. Mac Jones was the best rookie QB this year.. who would have thunk it?

 

Kenny Pickett or bust

"Everyone balked"

 

Hyperbole much?

[Thinking Skins]

  

6 minutes ago, ZarG3 said:

I called for Mac Jones last year and everyone balked. Mac Jones was the best rookie QB this year.. who would have thunk it?

 

Kenny Pickett or bust

 

  

20 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I really don’t want us to turn into the Andy Dalton led Bengals. We already have that in this town with the Caps

 

Its interesting because part of me would love to turn to the Andy Dalton led Bengals because its a step up and I could imagine that step. But In the same regard, I see Mac Jones as an Andy Dalton type QB who's not going to be leading 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives, just doing what he needs to do to keep us in the game. I have no problem with that (and I think Ron doesn't either) but I don't think he's going to come out in 5 years looking like the superstar he looks like right now, which is mainly in comparison to the other rookies. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by Thinking Skins

[max21]

I’d trade the entire team for Aaron Rodgers. Straight up every single player to Green Bay 

[Zim489]

7 minutes ago, ZarG3 said:

I called for Mac Jones last year and everyone balked. Mac Jones was the best rookie QB this year.. who would have thunk it?

 

Kenny Pickett or bust

Mac will likely end up in the same tier as the guys this class. He’s more likely to hit but he will never be elite. 
 

hard pass. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, max21 said:

I’d trade the entire team for Aaron Rodgers. Straight up every single player to Green Bay 

Why would GB accept that trade? 

[Tress Is The Way]

2 minutes ago, max21 said:

I’d trade the entire team for Aaron Rodgers. Straight up every single player to Green Bay 

Mike Ditka.. is that you? lol

 

Rodgers more than likely would not want to come here, I think if we swing for him its just going to cause a whole circus. Draft a QB and let him dual it out with Heiny.