The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[dunfer]

3 minutes ago, lavar1156 said:

I bet Dotson misses Wentz. Seems like Heinicke doesn't even look his way.

Probably can’t see them over the line half the time. The end of the half pick tonight… the lb was more than likely blocked from Taylor’s view by the line

Edited November 28, 2022 by dunfer

[Voice_of_Reason]

Just now, SoCalSkins said:

3 year 30 million extension. Would have Locke Heinicke up for 4 years at 7.75 mil a year with the team able to get out after a year. He’s going to command more than that dude. Not understanding that fact is moronic. Nothing I have said. So maybe just read my comments take them as fact and be more informed. Or argue and look like you do now.  

Let him get it elsewhere. 
 

Howell can do what TH is doing snd do it cheaper. 
 

Hell, the QB at William and Mary or James Madison could do what TH is doing.  
 

If you’re going to pay a backup QB to hand the ball off 40 times, throw junky INTs and generally be terrible 90% of the time with 10% good play or “moxie magic” then you don’t pay more than the vet minimum, no incentives, for that drek.  

[wit33]

45 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If the owner has the money to spend they can literally do anything they want against the cap for the next 5-7 years.  Look at what the Rams and Saints have done to manipulate the cap.  
 

 

Can you explain this better to me? How are some owners manipulating the cap and gaining an advantage? 
 

45 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

What you want is cheap AND good at QB.  If you can find that, it's nirvana.  

 

If you can't find that, you want GOOD at QB.  Because Cheap without good is worthless. 
 

 

Im sure my competent and your good have a great deal of overlap. 
 

 

45 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Honestly, the best QB for this team right now would be Jimmy G.  He'll be somewhat expensive but nowhere near Carr, who's going to demand a fortune, I think.  

 

Short term, you could keep Jimmy's cap number ridiculously low.  Probably less than $20m, depending on how you structure it and how much you want to punt into voided years, maybe even less than $15m.

 

I can get with Jimmy G and we seem to be at a similar place financially what we’d want to give. I believe teams are becoming less willing to give this level of QB boatloads of money and 2-3 year security, so we’ll see what he ends up commanding. 
 

I prefer to buy low on this kind of player and would be just as happy with Ryan Tannenhill at a similar or cheaper cost. Or even a Matt Ryan for 3% of the cap for one year if veteran QB is a priority. The idea don’t buy high on this level of QB, you will get burned. 
 

45 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

They can do the same thing with Payne and Sweat if they wanted to next off-season.  They have 2 years before they have to do anything with Young, and we're a long way off before that's even a thing.  
 

 

Trust me, I’m all for it. It seems more doable with a cheap QB. Yes, cheap and good/competent is the goal. 
 

45 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Taylor Heinicke is wasting McLaurin, Dotson, Brown and Samuel.  He has averaged, in his 7 starts, 194 yards per game.  That's a very paltry number.  With those weapons, not to mention Gibson and Logan Thomas, any QB of this team should be up around 250 yards per game minimum.  
 

 

Ya, the offense is crushing Samuels; with a high powered attack he’d be killer. Surprised they haven’t found more scripted pathways to get him the ball in the pass and catch game. I’d entertain him becoming the 3rd down back to lock in some work and touches. 

 

Mcclaurin will continue to flourish in this kind of system; he’s the number 1 guy and has double digit scripted plays per game. I prefer Mcclaurin at over 15 yards per catch than 12-13. 

 

[Ball Security]

8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Let him get it elsewhere. 
 

Howell can do what TH is doing snd do it cheaper. 
 

Hell, the QB at William and Mary or James Madison could do what TH is doing.  
 

If you’re going to pay a backup QB to hand the ball off 40 times, throw junky INTs and generally be terrible 90% of the time with 10% good play or “moxie magic” then you don’t pay more than the vet minimum, no incentives, for that drek.  

You’re going to put William & Mary and JMU in the same breath? 👎

[FootballZombie]

6 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If you’re going to pay a backup QB to hand the ball off 40 times, throw junky INTs and generally be terrible 90% of the time with 10% good play or “moxie magic” then you don’t pay more than the vet minimum, no incentives, for that drek.  

 

This. All of this.

 

We can pay anybody to do what we currently get from QB

But why on earth would you pay someone to complete 60% of their passes, to continuously create turnover worthy plays despite a minimal role,to not be a rushing threat and limits the playbook.

 

If you get a guy who can complete 65% of his passes your coming out ahead.

You get a guy who is a rushing threat your coming out ahead.

You get a guy who can actually put it beyond 20 yards... you get the idea.

 

I'm not paying a QB more than 3 Million to fill THs current role, b/c they can all do that or better.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

I'm not paying a QB more than 3 Million to fill THs current role, b/c they can all do that or better.

I wouldn’t pay a QB $3M for this production.

 

The team is damn lucky the defense is playing lights out and they can run the ball a ton. 
 

And they are playing mostly weak competition.  The Eagles aside, the other 5 teams they beat are not good.  
 

If the defense was t playing outstanding, we’d be losing by 20+ with this level of QB play and everybody would be screaming for a change, any change.  

[Califan007 The Constipated]

20 minutes ago, Berggy9598 said:

There’s a bit of a gap between better than weeks 2 through 6 (I’m not even sure about that) and good enough. 

 

I should have said weeks 3 though 6 (4 weeks worth of games).

 

And just a reminder of what you were responding to:

 

"Over the last seven games the offense has only scored over 20 points twice. If that's not mediocre I don't know what is."

 

You said it wasn't mediocre, it was terrible. Be my guest as to what those score totals were in that 4-game stretch...might wanna take a vomit bag when you do lol.

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

You’re going to put William & Mary and JMU in the same breath? 👎

Hahaha.  Well, I went to W&M, and we have on occasion beaten JMU.  Though not often and not recently I don’t think.  
 

We did have a QB my year who went on to go to training camp, I think with the Browns.  I can’t remember his name.  But he reminded me a ton of Rex Grossman: Eff it, I’m going deep.  
 

He had a better arm than TH.  But not anywhere near good enough to pull that off in the NFL. Didn’t make the team I think he landed on a few practice squads…

[CommanderCarson]

14 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I wouldn’t pay a QB $3M for this production.

 

The team is damn lucky the defense is playing lights out and they can run the ball a ton. 
 

And they are playing mostly weak competition.  The Eagles aside, the other 5 teams they beat are not good.  
 

If the defense was t playing outstanding, we’d be losing by 20+ with this level of QB play and everybody would be screaming for a change, any change.  

You’re beginning to sound ridiculous.

[Berggy9598]

14 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

I should have said weeks 3 though 6 (4 weeks worth of games).

 

And just a reminder of what you were responding to:

 

"Over the last seven games the offense has only scored over 20 points twice. If that's not mediocre I don't know what is."

 

You said it wasn't mediocre, it was terrible. Be my guest as to what those score totals were in that 4-game stretch...might wanna take a vomit bag when you do lol.

 

 

Wins and losses without context is a stat you use when you really want to convince people a bad QB on a good team is better than he really is. He’s not good enough and Wentz isn’t good enough. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 minute ago, Berggy9598 said:

Wins and losses without context is a stat you use when you really want to convince people a bad QB on a good team is better than he really is. He’s not good enough and Wentz isn’t good enough. 

 

Um, we were talking about the amount of points the offense scored...not wins and losses.

[Rufus T Firefly]

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

Can you explain this better to me? How are some owners manipulating the cap and gaining an advantage?

You can spend a lot of cash to push cap hits into the future, which allows you to fit more under your cap in the short run. Of course, every team does it to some extent, so the idea that you're gaining much of an advantage is overblown. People like to say the "cap doesn't matter" but that again is hyperbole. It does. You have to make choices.

 

And the dumb cap management around the league is when teams who aren't really title contenders mortgage their future to gain little more in the here and now. That's one wya teams keep themselves mired in mediocrity. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Rufus T Firefly

[SoCalSkins]

37 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Let him get it elsewhere. 
 

Howell can do what TH is doing snd do it cheaper. 
 

Hell, the QB at William and Mary or James Madison could do what TH is doing.  
 

If you’re going to pay a backup QB to hand the ball off 40 times, throw junky INTs and generally be terrible 90% of the time with 10% good play or “moxie magic” then you don’t pay more than the vet minimum, no incentives, for that drek.  

10-4 last 14 starts and 3 of the losses we were finally hit by covid hard. Dude does enough to win. We pay the defense and maybe see what Howell does. We don’t need to to commit 30 a year for 3 years for a Jimmy G in my opinion. I want to keep Payne and Montez. TH is a good enough fit for now. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I posted this in the game day thread, but it's more appropriate here.  Our second round pick appears to be safe, no matter what happens from here on out!

 

Wentz can't get to 70% snaps the remainder of this season.  The second rounder is safe.

 

Current:

Wentz - 420 Snaps

TH - 410 Snaps

Currently, they each have 50% of the offensive snaps.  (Small rounding error, but its close)

 

They average 69.3 offensive snaps per game.

 

That's a total of 1,178 snaps for the year, assuming there isn't a major swing in average snaps per game.

 

IF Carson Wentz played the remaining 5 games (which I doubt he will), and they kept with their average of ~70 plays a game, he would end up with 768 snaps out of the total of 1,178.  That's 65%.  

 

So, there's virtually no scenario under which the Colts get our second round pick from this point forward.

 

To that I say 

 

[NickyJ]

5 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Current:

Wentz - 420 Snaps

TH - 410 Snaps

Currently, they each have 50% of the offensive snaps.  (Small rounding error, but its close)

It's blowing my mind that we're only just now getting to the point that TH matches Wentz snaps. I feel like Heinicke's played at least twice as many games lol

[NoVaSkins21]

Not sure what was going on with Heinicke today.  Threw a horrible INT like he did vs the Vikings.  Felt like he had a sped up clock.  Heinicke plays well and they rally around him, but he needs to have better awareness of what's there.  Not sure what he and Turner do in the film room, but it doesn't seem like much since we see the same type of game from Heinicke with the errant throws and poor decision making.  A divisional opponent like the Giants will key on that for next week.  The starting job may his for the foreseeable future, but if he plays like this, he could lose it with games like this. 

[dunfer]

unless carson does start next game and we make the playoffs. I dont see why playoff games wouldnt count toward the total

[zCommander]

30 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

10-4 last 14 starts and 3 of the losses we were finally hit by covid hard. Dude does enough to win. We pay the defense and maybe see what Howell does. We don’t need to to commit 30 a year for 3 years for a Jimmy G in my opinion. I want to keep Payne and Montez. TH is a good enough fit for now. 

 

The key word here is FOR NOW. Not next year. Since we won't have a higher pick next year therefore Howell should be the starter unless there is a better option to be had. This team is close to being a real playoff team by building the lines on both sides and then drop in a QB that is good. SB next year? It could be possible.

 

I still do want TH to come back next year as the backup though. Plenty of teams out there with meh for backups. 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by zCommander

[dc1]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Let him get it elsewhere. 
 

Howell can do what TH is doing snd do it cheaper. 
 

Hell, the QB at William and Mary or James Madison could do what TH is doing.  
 

If you’re going to pay a backup QB to hand the ball off 40 times, throw junky INTs and generally be terrible 90% of the time with 10% good play or “moxie magic” then you don’t pay more than the vet minimum, no incentives, for that drek.  

Lol! But..

 

[Jericho]

9 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

The key word here is FOR NOW. Not next year. Since we won't have a higher pick next year therefore Howell should be the starter unless there is a better option to be had. This team is close to being a real playoff team by building the lines on both sides and then drop in a QB that is good. SB next year? It could be possible. 

 

I can't imagine Howell starting next year is Plan A. And it's probably not Plan B either. There's always a Marcus Mariota type lingering out there in free agency.

[SoCalSkins]

9 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

The key word here is FOR NOW. Not next year. Since we won't have a higher pick next year therefore Howell should be the starter unless there is a better option to be had. This team is close to being a real playoff team by building the lines on both sides and then drop in a QB that is good. SB next year? It could be possible.

 

I still do want TH to come back next year as the backup though. Plenty of teams out there with meh for backups. 

 

 

I would roll with TH4 next year for sure.  It’s a lame duck year with the new owner not being approved until the March meetings best case scenario. Put TH4 on a reasonable extension and pay the young defensive core. Howell should only see the field if TH is hurt. You don’t bench a 10-4 starter. You guys are insane. You were wrong about Heinicke. He wins. Apparently you prefer losing .

[zCommander]

1 minute ago, Jericho said:

 

I can't imagine Howell starting next year is Plan A. And it's probably not Plan B either. There's always a Marcus Mariota type lingering out there in free agency.

 

My plan B was someone else not on the roster lol

[dc1]

2 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

My plan B was someone else not on the roster lol

I have given up on that.. 

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by dc1

[zCommander]

4 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

You were wrong about Heinicke. 

 

You don't know me very well do you 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

He wins.

This is like me saying “I shop” when I drive my wife to the mall and I wait outside.  I didn’t shop, I took my wife shopping.  🤣