The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Koolblue13]

12 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I think people are missing the general point here.

 

The fact is, you need a franchise QB to sustain success in the NFL. This is irrefutable. 
 

The best way to getting one is drafting your own and developing him. Yes, there are examples of trades and FAs, but they are very rare. Banking on a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady to be available is silly. 

So you gotta draft one. Historically the best QBs are drafted in the first round. No they arent all top 5 or top 10, but theyre all high picks. Again, there are exceptions, but you cant bank on finding a Brady or Purdy. Their teams didnt draft them with the thought theyd be their starting QB. 
 

So here we are, sitting with the SECOND pick in the draft in what appears to be a loaded QB class. Now does that guarantee anything? Of course not. But by all counts there are three(at least)highly prized QB prospects. We have an opportunity to take one. A franchise QB is a necessity. 
 

But but but “we can trade down and get someone later.” Sure, that is possible. But again, how do you know the guy you want will be there? Youre settling for a lesser caliber prospect at the most important position and not even guaranteeing yourself a chance at getting him. 
 

But but but “we can build up our team and try to get one next year”. Sure, but what if there is noone good available? Could be like 2022 where all the QB options sucked. Or we end up winning like 7 games and stuck in a position where we have to reach for someone not as highly regarded. Or there are good prospects but none available for us because we dont have a high enough pick. Sure it could be like when Love and Jackson were available later in the 1st but how likely is that? Youre passing up an opportunity where you KNOW you have a shot at a franchise altering QB in the FIRST year of a new regime for a complete unknown.

 

But but but “what if the new FO doesn’t like any of the QB options?” Ok thats a possibility and if thats truly the case we have to respect that and trust their evaluation, but it would certainly be a big time minority opinion. But as of right now we can only work under the assumption that, at the very least, there are three legit big time QB prospects and we got a shot at one. We got a shot at getting out of football poverty for the next decade. Lets take it. 

Wilson is a former SB winner and a FA. Cousins is a top 10 QB. Both FAs.

[Warhead36]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Wilson is a former SB winner and a FA. Cousins is a top 10 QB. Both FAs.

Wilson isnt a FA. He also sucks now.

 

Cousins is 35 and coming off an ACL. Hes gonna go somewhere he can contend. It makes no sense for us to pay him big bucks in the first year of a rebuild. This isnt the Broncos or Bucs signing Brady or Manning when they had stacked rosters and were a QB away.

[Koolblue13]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

Wilson isnt a FA. He also sucks now.

 

Cousins is 35 and coming off an ACL. Hes gonna go somewhere he can contend. It makes no sense for us to pay him big bucks in the first year of a rebuild. This isnt the Broncos or Bucs signing Brady or Manning when they had stacked rosters and were a QB away.

Wilson had a great year and Kirk was before his injury. 

 

You are being overly dismissive. You don't "know" for certain what's going to happen.

 

These are all options a good GM will look at.

[KDawg]

Count me in camp “nothing to do with Russell Wilson”. I’d be pretty out on this regime if they made that move I think.

[Koolblue13]

Just now, KDawg said:

Count me in camp “nothing to do with Russell Wilson”. I’d be pretty out on this regime if they made that move I think.

I don't want Wilson, but he did have a good year and we'd be instant contenders, considering other moves they could make.

 

Could also draft JJ to sit behind him for the year.

[Warhead36]

Wilson sucked. He got benched for a reason. The numbers are extremely deceptive. 

[KDawg]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I don't want Wilson, but he did have a good year and we'd be instant contenders, considering other moves they could make.

 

Could also draft JJ to sit behind him for the year.

If JJ is on the board. That’s the gamble of not taking the quarterback where you can.
 

And, to reiterate, I want zero to do with Wilson. He is a drama show.

 

But, it would be fun to see what his phrase would be…

 

”Commander Comrades, Let’s Command!”

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

If JJ is on the board. That’s the gamble of not taking the quarterback where you can.
 

And, to reiterate, I want zero to do with Wilson. He is a drama show.

 

But, it would be fun to see what his phrase would be…

 

”Commander Comrades, Let’s Command!”

What about Kirk? Sign him to a 3 year deal with an out after two and draft JJ around 20 after trading back twice and adding draft capital for this and next year.

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Wilson sucked. He got benched for a reason. The numbers are extremely deceptive. 

Yes, his contract.

[Command The 414]

if Russell Wilson is in play here I'd rather run it back w/Howell under a new offensive scheme and coaches then even dare to have Wilson under center...as so many have stated the numbers were flawed this past season and call me petty but he didn't want anything to do with us a few seasons ago and chose Denver (which is his right) so why now should we want anything to do with him, I'd also rather fail drafting a QB with the #2 pick then fail with Wilson...just my opinion

[PeterMP]

13 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

What about Kirk? Sign him to a 3 year deal with an out after two and draft JJ around 20 after trading back twice and adding draft capital for this and next year.

Yes, his contract.

 

But his contract isn't an issue if he had a great year.  His contract requires him to be great.  And he's not.  Brees made huge money in NO, and it was never a problem.  The issue with Wilson is the quality of the play doesn't match the contract.

 

Add me as somebody that doesn't think Cousins or Wilson make any sense.

 

Unfortunately, there's nobody that is particularly attractive on the FA market given our situation.

Edited January 21 by PeterMP

[zCommander]

Your top 20 free agent QB for 2024. Slim picking. 

 

[Koolblue13]

I called the Kirk pick in the draft and I'm calling his triumphant return now. He'll be one of the only players to be both a Skin and a Commie and maybe even a Redwolf and the only one not to be an WTFer.

 

Resign Cousins,trade back twice, draft Verse, move up for JJ.  

 

Let it be known.

 

*fanbase explodes* We go deep in the playoffs.

[DWinzit]

If they liked JJ (or add another QB) and were able to move back slightly and grab him while adding a few picks, I'd be in on that. I would be uncomfortable if they were crossing thier fingers JJ lasts until like 7, 8 9 and may need to trade back up a little if they initially moved that far back. Can't take chances if that's your plan, must get him. 

 

I do believe they'd need to have a reliable vet QB like Brissett or even a Cousins for a year. No idea what would occur with Howell, maybe he'd be thrown into a trade.

 

Going this route is what Detroit did trading and grabbing Goff and other picks then drafting Hendon Hooker...if he works out. We will see about that

[Ghost of]

22 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

I feel the same way, but its still worth noting, dude was a 4 star, I think 5th or 6th rated QB in his recruiting class, produced. I don't expect him to be legit, but that's still impressive resume so far, but yeah, I want no part of it, especially with a 1st to 2nd round grade. late 2nd to 3rd, if i didn't have a high 1st, sure, but I do, so no. 

People who pan McCarthy don't understand the sacrifices he made to play in a system like that. He has a very good pro arm and often makes pro throws dropping a ball in narrow windows or over defenders. He was injured in his throwing base since Penn State. That affected the rest of the regular season in terms of performance and the playbook.

 

He won a state title,  a national title with IMG, was actually a 5 star recruit.  And then he overcame some bad plays last year in a shootout to make it close. Then returned and went 15-0. Lost one game as a starter and repeatedly made big plays to win games or bail the team out.  See multiple in the CFP alone.

 

He has to progress but he has the mental makeup and physical tools to win in the NFL. It would be a mistake to dismiss him as a journeyman in a league where Brock Purdy is a starter on a top 3 team.

Edited January 21 by Ghost of

[KDawg]

20 minutes ago, Ghost of said:

People who pan McCarthy don't understand the sacrifices he made to play in a system like that. He has a very good pro arm and often makes pro throws dropping a ball in narrow windows or over defenders. He was injured in his throwing base since Penn State. That affected the rest of the regular season in terms of performance and the playbook.

 

He won a state title,  a national title with IMG, was actually a 5 star recruit.  And then he overcame some bad plays last year in a shootout to make it close. Then returned and went 15-0. Lost one game as a starter and repeatedly made big plays to win games or bail the team out.  See multiple in the CFP alone.

 

He has to progress but he has the mental makeup and physical tools to win in the NFL. It would be a mistake to dismiss him as a journeyman in a league where Brock Purdy is a starter on a top 3 team.

I like JJ. The problem is where does he fit and is he a day one starter? You’d have to move back from 2, get extra capital (and probably not an additional 1 this year so we’d still likely only have one 1 unless we packaged others picks for another…

 

And you’d have to take JJ in the first anyways. You’d also need to start someone else (Ben Johnson may be comfortable with Howell and letting JJ develop).

 

I don’t view that scenario as wildly far fetched but I don’t view it likely. There’s just a lot that needs to happen. And they’d be passing on a QB now for extra capital next year but then drafting a QB anyways. I mean, I get the idea of attaining more picks for the long term health of the franchise and I am all about it…

 

But… a lot has to play out correctly to make it work. 

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I called the Kirk pick in the draft and I'm calling his triumphant return now. He'll be one of the only players to be both a Skin and a Commie and maybe even a Redwolf and the only one not to be an WTFer.

 

Resign Cousins,trade back twice, draft Verse, move up for JJ.  

 

Let it be known.

 

*fanbase explodes* We go deep in the playoffs.

I have a better chance of QB-ing this team than Kirk.

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I have a better chance of QB-ing this team than Kirk.

He's an NFL QB. You probably have to take a big breath before tying your second set of shoelaces.

[88Comrade2000]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I called the Kirk pick in the draft and I'm calling his triumphant return now. He'll be one of the only players to be both a Skin and a Commie and maybe even a Redwolf and the only one not to be an WTFer.

 

Resign Cousins,trade back twice, draft Verse, move up for JJ.  

 

Let it be known.

 

*fanbase explodes* We go deep in the playoffs.

You’re dreaming.

 

Wherever Kirk goes , he will not lead his team anywhere.  BB will be so frustrated with him, he’ll cut him.  Kirk isn’t changing his play now.

 

Russell is a player on the decline. Pete knew that, so that’s they had no problem trading him.

 

 

Of course a good Gm will look at all the options. Many of us believe they will come to the conclusion the best option is to draft Maye or Daniels at #2. Since Adam’s specialty if finding players deeper in the draft, he can draft the next Purdy with our last pick.

 

Maye, a veteran qb we sign and the next Purdy as our qb roster.

Edited January 21 by 88Comrade2000

[method man]

4 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Wilson had a great year and Kirk was before his injury. 

 

You are being overly dismissive. You don't "know" for certain what's going to happen.

 

These are all options a good GM will look at.

You didn’t actually watch Wilson this year, did you? Payton managed him this year like he did Jameis

[Warhead36]

48 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

He's an NFL QB. You probably have to take a big breath before tying your second set of shoelaces.

Werent you Carson Wentz’s biggest supporter and claiming hed be our franchise guy? Id lay off the insults if I took an L like that. Just saying.

[Jumbo]

4 hours ago, KDawg said:

Count me in camp “nothing to do with Russell Wilson”. I’d be pretty out on this regime if they made that move I think.

 

I have a ton of respect for him, don't even assume he's all washed up or even close, but have zero interest in leading with any possibly available vet, regardless of past achievement, unless his name is Aaron Rodgers 

[FootballZombie]

I'd feel differently about Vet QBs if we didn't have a top 3 pick, but we do have one so I have no desire to play in that pool.

It would take an amazingly unlikely and momentous situation to pry me off an early draft QB. Like a great QB choosing he does not want to play for his team anymore.

 

Otherwise, no thanx, I'm good.

[profusion]

Josh and Adam have already said they're building for the long term. Grabbing a high-priced veteran QB who peaked 10 years ago is the opposite of doing that.

[FlyBigBeard]

23 minutes ago, profusion said:

Josh and Adam have already said they're building for the long term. Grabbing a high-priced veteran QB who peaked 10 years ago is the opposite of doing that.

Yeah I don't see them going after a big name starting vet. Maybe a vet backup to compete with Sam and the rookie 

[The Consigliere]

13 hours ago, KDawg said:

McCarthy is undersold big time here. He’s just not a top notch prospect. I lump him with Nix & Rattler.

 

In a lot of ways they may all be safer than the top guys, and will probably have good careers… but their ceiling and path to raise it is a much more daunting voyage.

 

Whereas the consensus 3 are high ceiling guys that could pop or break quick but their ceilings are through the roof. 
 

QB evaluation in a nut shell.

I would be perfectly happy targeting him in round 2, especially as a team that has adequate quarterbacking but nothing special, or an older guy. I think McCarthy is one of those classic slot 25-75 types. They almost never hit as a franchise QB, but they do tend to hit as adequate cover for the position, its usually a Dalton+, Dalton- or a bust. He fits snugly in that zone, w/the background to suggest a small possibility that he hits big time (like 5-12% chance to me of franchise QB level talent, probably 30-35% chance of Howell level adequate cover type QB, and about 40-50% chance of outright bust on the scale of say Jimmy Clausen level). 

 

As an example of a team, who, if they had that draft capital, should consider it, I'd plug in NYG (because of the cap killing deal they gave Nickels), Minny (Cousins is done in 2 years), Detroit (speculative backup for Goff whose deal is up in I think 2 years), Tampa, New Orleans, Atlanta, Arizona, Miami, NYJ, that sorta thing. It makes sense for a team outside the top 3 this year, but will need a QB to develop either for '24 or '25. I can see that. Basically if we had landed at like 7-11, instead of top 2-3, he's a guy I would have used like the Bears pick on if he was still there, I'd consider that (or trading down and then doing it), but there's no way in hell I'm using a first on him because the ceiling is lower and the floor is bust and the chances of hitting the ceiling, for now, appear low (about 1 in 10 to 1 in 15 to me). But I still like him. As an example I like him a lot more than I liked Pickett two years ago, but less than Howell two years ago.