The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

First off, the number 1 target of my ire is Bieninemy. He stinks. I’m sorry. I’m not all that interested in waiting on a 55 year old coordinator learn on the job. If he was truly a great offensive mind, he would have had a HC years ago 
 

This was bad. Very bad. First time they’ve played a good defense and they scored 10. That was concerning. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

3 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Dude, they scored 10 points. The yards are completely irrelevant. Come on. 
 

The offense as a whole sucked today. 

I know. The Line and play calling were the bigger issues on offense today, but people are trying to make it out like Sam did something special today while managing 10 points. 

 

He was okay. He made some plays. He, again, didn't;t have much help. But he did miss some receivers. He had one shoulda been pick. He threw a pick 6, admittedly when the game was decided. 

 

He's everything body's binky right now and they flip if you don't praise him But he didn't;t do anything to write hime about today. The best we can say is he wasn't the mani reason the offense was garbage today.

[zCommander]

1 minute ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Dude, they scored 10 points. The yards are completely irrelevant. Come on. 
 

The offense as a whole sucked today. 

 

Too bad our D is not capable of holding any team to 10 points. All hell broke loose in the 4th qt and the D couldn't do anything. Btw, both teams didn't score at all in the 3rd qtr. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Just now, zCommander said:

 

Too bad our D is not capable of holding any team to 10 points. All hell broke loose in the 4th qt and the D couldn't do anything. Btw, both teams didn't score at all in the 3rd qtr. 

They have been held under 21 points 3 out of the last 4. The offense is not doing enough at this point in the season. It’s ok to admit it. 
 

 

[zCommander]

Just now, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

They have been held under 21 points 3 out of the last 4. The offense is not doing enough at this point in the season. It’s ok to admit it. 
 

 

 

And it is okay to admit Sam is the whole offense. Just a one man show. The OL is not going to just improve as the season progresses if the players are pretty much the same and can't block or protect the QB or give him some time. Sure some of the play calling was atrocious and that definitely didn't help him at all or the offense. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

 

He's everything body's binky right now and they flip if you don't praise him But he didn't;t do anything to write hime about today. The best we can say is he wasn't the mani reason the offense was garbage today.

I find it hard to even assess him individually.  Not just today, but most games.  Too many snaps are immediately chaotic and too many situations are dead pre-snap.

[KDawg]

Howell didn't play great today. It's okay to say that for sure.

 

But he tried. And they once again put the game on his (and to some extent BRob's) backs today.

 

Samuel put in a good effort. But no one else on offense did anything of any kind of note. This offense is poorly executed and poorly called and has been. They hit a stride for a bit by focusing on quick hitters that Bienemy seems to have gone away from the last few weeks for some reason.

[Warhead36]

Howell wasnt great. But were asking a 5th rounder in his 13th career start to carry the

offense. When he doesnt, we have no chance. 
 

Im still overall happy with him all things considered.

[MartinC]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Howell didn't play great today. It's okay to say that for sure.

 

But he tried. And they once again put the game on his (and to some extent BRob's) backs today.

 

Samuel put in a good effort. But no one else on offense did anything of any kind of note. This offense is poorly executed and poorly called and has been. They hit a stride for a bit by focusing on quick hitters that Bienemy seems to have gone away from the last few weeks for some reason.

To state the obvious it’s tough to play QB under the kind of quick pressure Howell is getting. He’s rushing some throws, and he knows if his first read is not there he’s in trouble so he’s forcing some balls. Most of his big plays are when he’s on the move - he’s got almost no chance to work progressions in the pocket. 
 

He’s got the team on his back. Asking a heck of a lot of a QB in his first year starting.

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

Howell wasnt great. But were asking a 5th rounder in his 13th career start to carry the

offense. When he doesnt, we have no chance. 
 

Im still overall happy with him all things considered.

Right there with you, WH36.  It's his first full year, people!  Let him have another year. 

1 minute ago, MartinC said:

To state the obvious it’s tough to play QB under the kind of quick pressure Howell is getting. He’s rushing some throws, and he knows if his first read is not there he’s in trouble so he’s forcing some balls. Most of his big plays are when he’s on the move - he’s got almost no chance to work progressions in the pocket. 
 

He’s got the team on his back. Asking a heck of a lot of a QB in his first year starting.

Exactly. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Howell wasnt great. But were asking a 5th rounder in his 13th career start to carry the

offense. When he doesnt, we have no chance. 
 

Im still overall happy with him all things considered.

So, this is a problem. Where he was drafted and how many games he's played are irrelevant at this point. He's late in his second season and the team needs to figure out if he's good enough to be the guy. 

 

It would be nice if we had a Line that made it possible to figure that out and plyacalling that didn't actively sabotage the offensive production. But that's not the world we live in. 

[Warhead36]

I just saw Jennings on the 9ers catch a pss short of the first, break like three tackles, and get the 1st.

 

When was the last time one of our guys did something like that? 

1 minute ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

So, this is a problem. Where he was drafted and how many games he's played are irrelevant at this point. He's late in his second season and the team needs to figure out if he's good enough to be the guy. 

 

It would be nice if we had a Line that made it possible to figure that out and plyacalling that didn't actively sabotage the offensive production. But that's not the world we live in. 

I dont disagree. Thats why Im good with whatever the new regime wants as long as everyone is on the same page.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

5 minutes ago, MartinC said:

To state the obvious it’s tough to play QB under the kind of quick pressure Howell is getting. He’s rushing some throws, and he knows if his first read is not there he’s in trouble so he’s forcing some balls. Most of his big plays are when he’s on the move - he’s got almost no chance to work progressions in the pocket. 
 

He’s got the team on his back. Asking a heck of a lot of a QB in his first year starting.

I mean I got you but what first year QB isn’t being asked to put his team on his back? That’s the case for almost every first year starter except for Brock Purdy last year. That’s not a burden exclusive to Sam. He’s going to have succeed in less than ideal circumstances. This will likely be the case to a (hopefully) lesser degree next season. 

[zCommander]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I just saw Jennings on the 9ers catch a pss short of the first, break like three tackles, and get the 1st.

 

When was the last time one of our guys did something like that? 

 

When Sam ran for 24 yards and went through the tacklers and they bounced off of him. I think BRob has as well. 

[zCommander]

2 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

I mean I got you but what first year QB isn’t being asked to put his team on his back? That’s the case for almost every first year starter except for Brock Purdy last year. That’s not a burden exclusive to Sam. He’s going to have succeed in less than ideal circumstances. This will likely be the case to a (hopefully) lesser degree next season. 

 

Apparently not in ATL.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

Apparently not in ATL.

??? Not sure what you mean here. 

[zCommander]

15 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

??? Not sure what you mean here. 

 

Ridder got benched this year for TH for couple of games. They should have never done that. Let him take his lumps and carry the team. Except Ridder has not been able to do that. He couldn't do it last year either. He was selected in the 3rd round before Sam. 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2023 by zCommander

[Conn]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

The success rate of GMs selecting coaches and winning consistently is extremely low. I’m uninterested in an overarching strategy that consistently fails.

This is sort of selection bias, because every single strategy fails to consistently win. HOF coaches and players come from a group of people that were by definition exceptions to all the rules. There is no way to reliably, consistently win just by following a flowchart. That doesn’t mean there aren’t best practices to follow that up your chances. I agree those best practices can differ depending on the individuals you find to hire. 

 

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

It’s more about acquiring exceptionally talented individuals rather than adhering strictly to a predefined model.

 

I agree with you here. With the caveat that certain factors weight these individuals differently. Among otherwise equally talented geniuses, communicators, and leaders—offensive coach > defensive coach, because another franchise can’t steal your playcaller that way, and you can create and maintain that rare long term HC/QB bond that forms almost all elite championship contenders. Just as an example. 

 

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

Uhh… Shannahan is still with the Niners because he wins at an elite rate in a league where that doesn’t happen. 80% of the NFL is mediocre and he’s elite. 

 

You are right about this, there are just very few Kyle Shanahans in existence. And Lance trade aside, they are elite in roster construction and asset valuation/usage (minus a random trade up for a bum mid-round RB every couple years, Kyle can’t shake that habit lol). But Kyle Shanahan not only maximizes it—he enhances it. 

46 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

It matters because he's gotten the necessary attention nationally for folks to not make assumptions about him and actually say something similar to what we are because he's earned their respect enough.

Yes, the national conversation—even among random twitter idiots—is that Howell is an exciting spark with potential for much more, mired in a tough situation. His rep is on the rise and if we’re lucky, potential GM’s (and then HC’s and assistant coaches) will agree and want to come here (alongside the other potentially enticing reasons). 

[FootballZombie]

9 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

I mean I got you but what first year QB isn’t being asked to put his team on his back?

 

Sam is out here running the most pass slanted O in the NFL w/ the worst D in the NFL backing him up.

He is operating in a new and unproven Offensive system, w/ no prior history to its credit that it even works.

We don't allow a run game to exist to take weight off his shoulders, we instead drape a superman cape over them and tell him to try and survive.

 

Its monumentally stupid and is not conductive to building positive traits. I don't think I have seen a QB on this team take this much punishment for this long outside of Ramsey.

 

A lot of young QBs are baby'd when brought into the NFL. They get a limited playbook, or a run focused O.

Sure, there are others that are thrown into the deep end, but none to the extent of Howell. I don't think I have ever seen it to this degree.

He has been pushed over the side of an Aircraft carrier above the Marianas Trench w/ a weight tied to his leg.

What we are asking of him is far from normal for such an inexperienced player.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

1 minute ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Sam is out here running the most pass slanted O in the NFL w/ the worst D in the NFL backing him up.

He is operating in a new and unproven Offensive system, w/ no prior history to its credit that it even works.

We don't allow a run game to exist to take weight off his shoulders, we instead drape a superman cape over them and tell him to try and survive.

 

Its monumentally stupid and is not conductive to building positive traits. I don't think I have seen a QB on this team take this much punishment for this long outside of Ramsey.

 

A lot of young QBs are baby'd when brought into the NFL. They get a limited playbook, or a run focused O.

Sure, there are others that are thrown into the deep end, but none to the extent of Howell. I don't think I have ever seen it to this degree.

He has been pushed over the side of an Aircraft carrier above the Marianas Trench w/ a weight tied to his leg.

What we are asking of him is far from normal for such an inexperienced player.

In terms of sheer volume of throws, I definitely agree. That’s a fair point 

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

I mean I got you but what first year QB isn’t being asked to put his team on his back? That’s the case for almost every first year starter except for Brock Purdy last year. That’s not a burden exclusive to Sam. He’s going to have succeed in less than ideal circumstances. This will likely be the case to a (hopefully) lesser degree next season. 

With essentially a rookie QB you ideally want to lean on the run game, pick your spots to pass and have a good defense to keep you out of shoot outs so you have to pass. It’s very very rare that a young QB leads the NFL in passing attempts and yards - which is what Howell does right now.

[TheItalianStallion]

The remainder of this season is all about evaluating Howell and whether or not we should proceed as if he's the long-term guy. I continue to see improvement but I also continue to see flaws. Hope he can fix more of them between now and the end of the season.

[KDawg]

45 minutes ago, TheItalianStallion said:

The remainder of this season is all about evaluating Howell and whether or not we should proceed as if he's the long-term guy. I continue to see improvement but I also continue to see flaws. Hope he can fix more of them between now and the end of the season.

Do you see flaws with Trevor Lawrence?

 

Every QB in the League has flaws. They always will. Sam is no different. Having said that, the flaw I’d like to see most corrected is the offensive line and play calling.

 

If Sam sinks then it’s on him. But I don’t know who would succeed behind this mess of an OL/situational playcalls. 

Edited November 24, 2023 by KDawg

[Riggo-toni]

The dilemma we will ultimately be facing is likely this: One of the top QBs in the draft is likely to fall to us. If he looks like a winner, we probably won't have enough to go on to know if we should makes that pick, or fix one of our numerous glaring holes in the roster because we believe we already have the guy.

[Skinsinparadise]

Listening to Keim’s podcast. @Koolblue13 would be especially interested. 
 

A. Players don’t want Bieniemy as the interm coach 

 

B. Some players behind the scenes think Bieniemy has too much power right now 

 

C. Some players want to see Rivera to take some of that power away from Bieniemy

 

D. O lineman really love Howell. Leno told Keim that this team regressed from last year but made a big step up at QB

Edited November 24, 2023 by Skinsinparadise