The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[CjSuAvE22]

It is what it is at this point unless we mortgage the future and draft up for a qb it’s likely we won’t have our long term starter for at least two years 

[GoDeep81]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

We could be a game and a half behind the cowboys walking strong into the playoffs, but we scored 12 ****ing points and dudes are still defending Heini.

 

He put up the same amount of points he always does. Refs stole 8 of them. 

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, GoDeep81 said:

He put up the same amount of points he always does. Refs stole 8 of them. 

He gave away 10. He tried to give up the points you're whining about. If dude could catch we wouldn't be having these ref conversations.

[Warhead36]

53 minutes ago, GoDeep81 said:

He put up the same amount of points he always does. Refs stole 8 of them. 

Y'all sound like 20 points is an accomplishment in today's NFL "lolol". 

[FLSkinz83]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

We could be a game and a half behind the cowboys walking strong into the playoffs, but we scored 12 ****ing points and dudes are still defending Heini.

 

 

It's more a criticism of  Scott and the pass pro than a defense of TH.  At least it is for me.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

It's more a criticism of  Scott and the pass pro than a defense of TH.  At least it is for me.  

So when TH is missing guys in the middle of the field, prior to the pressure getting there, that’s Scott or the OL’s fault how?

 

If you don’t want to blame TH, fine…blame his mother and father for the genetics.

[zCommander]

27 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Y'all sound like 20 points is an accomplishment in today's NFL "lolol". 

 

For this team it is since they grind it out and the defense can hold the other team to less than them.

 

We are not high powered offense we were supposed to be by getting Wentz. ☹️

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by zCommander

[GoDeep81]

13 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Y'all sound like 20 points is an accomplishment in today's NFL "lolol". 

Is what it is. He's the backup doing what he does. Hopefully we get to see how Wentz or Howell does before the season ends.

 

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

He gave away 10. He tried to give up the points you're whining about. If dude could catch we wouldn't be having these ref conversations.

I don't follow? I can't defend the redzone fumble. He fumbled. There's lots of fault to spread for the scoop 6. Not sure what "if dude could catch" means. Either way I feel we scored our avg and the refs literally stole 8 of them. As I said above, hopefully someone else can do better. Until we have a QB1 to evaluate, we're mad about the backup going 5-2-1.. For the Snyder owned team. Lol

 

 

[Wafers]

I think the coaches have seen enough (even only in six games) of Wentz to know Wentz is done as a NFL starter.  The winning under TH is actually preventing us from seeing Howell.  If we are out of playoff, Howell will play.

[FLSkinz83]

22 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

So when TH is missing guys in the middle of the field, prior to the pressure getting there, that’s Scott or the OL’s fault how?

 

If you don’t want to blame TH, fine…blame his mother and father for the genetics.

 

I said TH was a C+ QB....and I mean that as his ceiling with a good Coordinator/pass pro.    That means he's going to miss throws.   It means there are throws he can't make.

 

 

[mistertim]

18 minutes ago, GoDeep81 said:

Is what it is. He's the backup doing what he does. Hopefully we get to see how Wentz or Howell does before the season ends.

 

I don't follow? I can't defend the redzone fumble. He fumbled. There's lots of fault to spread for the scoop 6. Not sure what "if dude could catch" means. Either way I feel we scored our avg and the refs literally stole 8 of them. As I said above, hopefully someone else can do better. Until we have a QB1 to evaluate, we're mad about the backup going 5-2-1.. For the Snyder owned team. Lol

 

 

 

I think "If dude could catch" means Heinicke threw another ball right into another DB's hands and once again the DB somehow managed to drop it.

Edited December 22, 2022 by mistertim

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

I said TH was a C+ QB....and I mean that as his ceiling with a good Coordinator/pass pro.    That means he's going to miss throws.   It means there are throws he can't make.

 

 

I mean literally not throwing the ball, because he’s worried about the pressure or can’t see over the line.

 

I don’t care if you give TH the hogs and Joe Gibbs in his prime, in this day and age, there is only but so far you can go with a QB like TH.  We are over .500, Turner must be doing something right.

Edited December 22, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[zCommander]

28 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

So when TH is missing guys in the middle of the field, prior to the pressure getting there, that’s Scott or the OL’s fault how?

 

If you don’t want to blame TH, fine…blame his mother and father for the genetics.

 

I blame the coaches for not fielding a better OL. We wouldn't be having these conversations right now and winning with Wentz instead.

[FLSkinz83]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I mean literally not throwing the ball, because he’s worried about the pressure or can’t see over the line.

 

I don’t care if you give TH the hogs and Joe Gibbs in his prime, in this day and age, there is only but so far you can go with a QB like TH.  We are over .500, Turner must be doing something right.

 

I feel the same way about your defense of Turner that you feel about my defense of TH.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

I blame the coaches for not fielding a better OL. We wouldn't be having these conversations right now and winning with Wentz instead.

They definitely overestimated the replacements they brought in.  But I still think both QBs- Wentz and Heinicke, have been seeing ghosts and not pulling the trigger when it’s there.

 

I was more forgiving of Wentz in this regard because he’s new to the system and receivers.  We are now seeing it with Heinicke, and familiarity with the system and getting the ball out quick is supposed to be a strong suit for him.

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

I feel the same way about your defense of Turner that you feel about my defense of TH.  

 

Can you just straight up tell us things that Heinicke takes some blame for? You guys tap dance around all day, claiming Heinicke isn't that good, but any time someone throws any blame his way you all immediately jump in and deflect the blame to literally everything but Heinicke.

Edited December 22, 2022 by mistertim

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

8 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

I feel the same way about your defense of Turner that you feel about my defense of TH.  

But there’s plenty of tape to support that Turner has provided more than enough opportunity to TH and he just simply doesn’t/can’t hit to capitalize.

 

That doesn’t mean everything Turner calls is great or that he can’t stall a drive in his own right.  But just look at the majority of passes Heinicke does complete, wide open first reads that you or I could hit.  Then look at the wide open looks he’s not seeing, patting the ball and eating a sack or making an errant throw because he’s late and the pressure gets there.  It happens a lot every week.

 

You are asking a lot of an OC to consistently find a way to win with a weak armed, short, inaccurate QB.

Edited December 22, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[FLSkinz83]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Can you just straight up tell us things that Heinicke takes some blame for? You guys tap dance around all day, claiming Heinicke isn't that good, but any time someone throws any blame his way you all immediately jump in and deflect the blame to literally everything but Heinicke.

 

The problem isn't "any blame". the problem is that he gets most of the blame for the offensive output.

 

Of course TH gets some of the blame.   But there are bigger structural problems with this offense.

[Conn]

Just now, FLSkinz83 said:

 

The problem isn't "any blame". the problem is that he gets most of the blame for the offensive output.

 

Of course TH gets some of the blame.   But there are bigger structural problems with this offense.

What do you think Heinicke’s actual weaknesses are. Be naughty for a minute and indulge 

[KDawg]

Just now, FLSkinz83 said:

 

The problem isn't "any blame". the problem is that he gets most of the blame for the offensive output.

 

Of course TH gets some of the blame.   But there are bigger structural problems with this offense.

 

He doesn't though. That's a paranoid perception.

 

But even if he did... He's the quarterback. You notice who many fans and analysts give credit to for the winning streak? I'll give you a hint: Taylor Heinicke.

 

If you are cool with the kudos you have to also be cool with the backlash.

 

The truth is that the team itself is responsible for the record. And while Taylor deserves some credit and blame, he's not the sole culprit. But he's the captain of the ship.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Can you just straight up tell us things that Heinicke takes some blame for? You guys tap dance around all day, claiming Heinicke isn't that good, but any time someone throws any blame his way you all immediately jump in and deflect the blame to literally everything but Heinicke.

I gather they don’t look to the analysis that’s out there week to week breaking down all the meat left on the bone.  It’s unkind to Heinicke, as is every other metric utilized to assess QB play - PFF, QBR, turnover worthy plays, red zone efficiency. 
 

But instead they’ll cling to a tidbit about BRob not running enough in the red zone.  It’s deflection 101.

[mistertim]

29 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

The problem isn't "any blame". the problem is that he gets most of the blame for the offensive output.

 

Of course TH gets some of the blame.   But there are bigger structural problems with this offense.

 

So then tell us what you blame him for. It's like pulling teeth to get Heinicke fans to point out anything that he did wrong without equivocating or blaming it at least partially on something else. 

[zCommander]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

He gave away 10. 

 

The first sack fumble scoop td goes to Turner. Even Jay Gruden said can't call a long developing pass play there and should have been a run. TH hands gets hit as he is releasing the ball. But the second sack fumbler is on TH for not holding to the ball as he is going down. 

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

He gave away 10. He tried to give up the points you're whining about. If dude could catch we wouldn't be having these ref conversations.

The game was frustrating as hell.  And I get that people are frustrated with Heinicke’s play (let alone frustrated with some of his defenders).  I gotta say though, I’m a little surprised by the “he gifted/gave them a td” talk.  Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t feel like we normally treat blindside sack fumbles as the fault of a qb.  Well, unless they hold the ball a long time.

 

Of course, I’m also one of those who think we can find plenty of fault without hyperbole like “he sucks for 58 minutes”, so maybe my views just aren’t “extreme” enough, lol.

 

Bottom line - TH is a very limited qb put into a position (albeit understandably) with very little margin for error.  And in a game with a fumble td, a ticky-tac call on a 2 point conversion (followed by a missed extra point), a td taken away first by McLaurin’s penalty followed by an uncalled PI penalty… surprise, surprise… we lost.  Freakin’ sucks, especially given the stakes.

 

Now, with all of that said, I’m not trying to absolve Heinicke of blame.  Yes, he’s limited, but he’s gotta hit the open reads (more often, especially the gimme throws), he’s gotta tuck it and run at times, he has to avoid the delay of game penalties, he needs to be more productive in the red zone and on 3rd downs.  In short, he’s gotta do better with the things he can control.

 

@Warhead36 20 points is a low bar in the NFL, no doubt.  It’s generally worked for us though as we limit opponent’s drives by keeping them off the field (to some extent), and the defense limits points.  With mostly poor qb play and pass blocking, it’s probably our best shot at being a fringe playoff team.  Of course, my hope is that we make a qb change and it works out.  Not holding my breath considering my reservations about Wentz (and Howell), particularly behind this oline, but who knows.  It would be nice to find a spark that can lift the team a notch, because with our backs and defense, a small improvement might be enough to (as Baldy would say) be a problem for teams.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

12 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

 

Now, with all of that said, I’m not trying to absolve Heinicke of blame.  Yes, he’s limited, but he’s gotta hit the open reads (more often, especially the gimme throws), he’s gotta tuck it and run at times, he has to avoid the delay of game penalties, he needs to be more productive in the red zone and on 3rd downs.  In short, he’s gotta do better with the things he can control.

This really sounds like you are saying he sucks as much as the rest of us.  🤣